Diet advice and opinon needed....

TransGirl wrote:I promised myself to avoid this, but I just have to add my two worthless cents.

There is no diet that fits all. There is no magic cure for all illness by being overly zealous or religious about a single diet.

Now, if you look at human beings we were probably very seasonal eaters. Fruits and greens when available, meat when able, and so on. In other words, we are an adaptable race. We adapted to the seasons and the lay of the land and sometimes it meant more fruit and sometimes more meat, but that does not mean paleo or fruitarian is superior. I see slowly people coming forth on both accounts that admit the "pure" diets made them worse. People are way too eager to think of humans as some simple car that needs a single fuel source. I'd also add that both diets can easily fail because it sucks getting organics. I can't imagine trying to buy organic fruits all year long where I live. I'd have to win a lottery and work as a hooker. I also can't imagine eating huge slabs of meat every day. What I did is that I just cut out what I believed was evil for me, that mostly being gluten and dairy. It takes several weeks to get over gluten(seems to stick around in the system for so long), but I feel better because of it. I fell down once on the anti-gluten wagon and had to pay for that during the next 3 weeks as I felt depression and anxiety.

So test what feels right to you and see if it gives you benefits. If it doesn't try something else.
Maybe fruitarian is awesome during the middle of the year and paleo during winter, who knows.

(I have an appointment with doctor to rule out coeliac because of how I react to gluten)

hm.. I don't really agree ._.

I do agree that humans are definitely opportunistic and yes we have a history of eating some meat, etc etc.

But I don't think that implies that we should still try to get all these things into our diets, as it seems some food are better for us than others anyway! Just because in the past we have eaten more meat, doesn't mean that we should necessarily keep eating it or that it's good for us!

However, I suppose it is interesting that our GI tracts may have been affected by this growing tendency towards omnivorous living (I disagree with Harley that hunting and meat eating didn't shape us as a species since we learned to fashion spears and bows!).

However, despite all that, studies do seem to suggest the human body is much happier and cleaner without meat >.<

Ah well, meat is far from my only focus here anyway! I actually value meat as a POTENTIAL dietary addition (ethics being forgotten for a moment) over grains and dairy by a long way.

Hoppipolla wrote:However, despite all that, studies do seem to suggest the human body is much happier and cleaner without meat >.<

Where are these studies you keep mentioning?

tooyoung wrote:

Hoppipolla wrote:However, despite all that, studies do seem to suggest the human body is much happier and cleaner without meat >.<

Where are these studies you keep mentioning?

Things like the China Study and numerous other publications and studies. This video includes most of them (I like posting videos as it means I don't have to remember stuff LOL)




I think there is this masculine obsession with eating meat and we really need to get past it and look at things objectively. The only real nutrient that seems higher in meat is B12 and that's only because we wash our veggies (apparently it's in soil).

I just... I think the rest is just guys wanting to look tough by eating meat >.<

Just because in the past we have eaten more meat, doesn't mean that we should necessarily keep eating it or that it's good for us!

This could just as apply to fruit eating if you think about it.

Personally for me, the reason I quit fruits was the extreme cost of the lifestyle for those who live in northern regions. Durianrider is basically teaching a lifestyle from an advantage point which is Australia, but unfortunately we don't all have that access. I doubt he thinks 7 billion people packed in warmer climates could be sustainable long term.

The other reason is because I am on potassium-sparing drugs. I tried this for a week and got severe heart palpitations because my body wasn't able to excrete the potassium fast enough. This would apply to anyone suffering from renal issues. I still eat fruits(mostly apples and lemons, no bananas as they fucked up my digestion), but now I am just rotating more. There are days I eat meat, and then there are days I eat fruits and vegetables.

The other thing about fruitarian diet is that it isn't technically natural, not like how many people practice it by eating the same mass-produced fruit. Basically being a fruitarian has the same problems as being paleo as most of the food you are getting isn't natural for the season, loaded with drugs, raised in a mineral deficient region. Another thing that is also problematic is that our entire physique is built around eating food with power thanks to evolution. Our bodies are now larger in general and being on a vegan or fruit only diet can be extremely hard as you have to consume considerable amount of food to sustain yourself. What will be interesting to see in the coming years is if there will be a split in fruitarianism if people start experiencing the side effects of the diet. We are seeing the early signs of such a movement in paleo so it will be interesting to see if it emerges elsewhere.

However, I have seen studies showing the benefits of paleo and the benefits of fruits etc etc. so in the end it is up to the individual. Although Durianrider can be a funny guy he has one problem that does annoy me: He is a crusader. The problem with crusaders is that they "have to" convert other people or they feel like their own life isn't being validated. I have seen this type of people everywhere, from the person that preaches about how the PS3 is better to Xbox 360 to Paleo people preaching about their diet being superior to vegan and so on. He basically acts a bit like a guy who got teased or bullied in school and now feels a need to show that he is better than everyone else because of some factor(in this case his diet). If anything I have nothing against his diet, but people like him are dangerous people, regardless of how good their side is. Being a fruitarian is a way of eating, but he makes it look like a religion, and religion is never good.

On a final note. The fruitarians are always talking about that the sweet tooth is there for a reason(like in that video), well, I'd say people also have a fat tooth, but it is suddenly bad to follow that one? If people wanting sweet things is a good thing, how can people wanting fatty things be a bad thing? I am not a fan of selective logic like that one.

Hoppipolla wrote:

tooyoung wrote:

Hoppipolla wrote:However, despite all that, studies do seem to suggest the human body is much happier and cleaner without meat >.<

Where are these studies you keep mentioning?

Things like the China Study and numerous other publications and studies. This video includes most of them (I like posting videos as it means I don't have to remember stuff LOL)

That video was of a library bookcase or something, so once again, you haven't posted any studies.

Also, the China Study doesn't count, pretty sure CS and others showed it to be rubbish when misterE was about.
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

I just... I think the rest is just guys wanting to look tough by eating meat >.<

I don't even know if you're being serious anymore. Plants have feelings too you know. -_-

Personally, I feel best when I eat a bit of everything and that includes dessert (dark cocoa for me). The link that CS provided can give people, new to making changes in diet for health, a general idea of what to eat per metabolic type. From there you can make adjustments, like removing gluten and casein etc.

Lately, I have been eating a lot of bone and meat broths, that I add potatoes and vegetables to, and this has been great--especially now that it is getting cooler outside. I cook the whole chicken minus the head and neck and any organs, intestines, etc. I cook it until the bones get brittle and it will desintegrate when I am eating it (I never thought that eating bones could be so appetizing, its like my body is thanking me for including this in the diet).

I believe this way I am getting a full spectrum of nutrients to include saturated animal fat. My starch is mostly rice and potatoes. Plain and simple, especially when it is cold outside--my body ask for this kind of meal and no amount of bananas ever comes to mind. I drink lots of water and take the supps of course, and also eat fruits every now and then. No bread and I try to refrain from dairy products because I am intolerant to them (not easy because I love ice cream, but I do notice increased shed when I eat it). Two days ago I got a blood allergy test and I am looking forward to getting the results.

Also, I don't agree that people eat meat as a form of machismo statement. I eat meat because my mouth waters when I think of it--it's just that simple for me diet wise.

EDIT: ...and I have been eating the carrot, coconut oil, and vinegar salad once daily. It is very good.

Abkhasians, Vilcabambans, Hunzans, Okinawans consume, in large a vegan diet and are some of the longest living, disease free cultures on the planet (or at least, they were)

...yet they consume in small amounts: seafood and / or meat and / or raw dairy.

(They also all consume cooked grains or roots - though these are often prepared to remove anti nutrients)

Hoppi,

Given how little research you've done and how little you actually know about the complexities of diet and health, your habit of coming in here and flooding the forum with your half-baked opinions is immensely arrogant. You're not an expert. Stop acting like one.

People like CS have been studying the relationship between diet and health for decades, and frankly their opinions hold more weight than yours. Given your simplistic/reductionist way of thinking about diet and health, I really doubt if you've ever read even one scientific abstract about nutrition. You just derive all of your opinions from youtube videos posted by new-age nutrition gurus. No critical thought whatsoever. And then you come in here and broadcast your opinions as if they were absolute and final.

I think there is this masculine obsession with eating meat and we really need to get past it and look at things objectively. The only real nutrient that seems higher in meat is B12 and that's only because we wash our veggies (apparently it's in soil).

I just... I think the rest is just guys wanting to look tough by eating meat >.<

Are you serious? Do you know how idiotic you sound?

Anthonyspencer54 made a good post on another thread this morning. I hope he won't mind if I post an excerpt here:

With all of these threads lately about optimum diets, everybody is drawing a line in the sand and saying choose one side or the other. Frankly, I want no part
in it, because if we were all wise, we'd realize we know very little about the complexities of the issue
and have to discover through experience what gives us the body and state of mind we're striving for.

People start threads about complex health-related topics. And for months I've seen you repeatedly hijack threads to broadcast your simplistic opinions, and your posts are usually completely unproductive.

I would love to punch durianrider in the face.

Not because I believe there's something wrong with the diet he recommends, but because he doesn't do anything in his videos except ramble on and on about how anyone who isn't a raw vegan is unhealthy, stupid, and obese. I don't understand how anybody can take that crap seriously.

The only thing more annoying than his accent is that self-congratulatory smirk.

imprisoned-radical wrote:I would love to punch durianrider in the face.

Not because I believe there's something wrong with the diet he recommends, but because he doesn't do anything in his videos except ramble on and on about how anyone who isn't a raw vegan is unhealthy, stupid, and obese. I don't understand how anybody can take that crap seriously.

The only thing more annoying than his accent is that self-congratulatory smirk.

To be honest I just sit there p*ssing myself with laughter at his vids lol

I think he's wicked. On 30bad we all have self-congratulatory smirks I think xD

But erm, I dunno really, sometimes there's a limit to how much can be thrown back and forth before you just agree to disagree and return to your respective "camps" lol

Perhaps it's best we do that for now!

It was interesting though hehe

yeah well I hope you go back to your camp and keep your mouth shut more often.

That's all you do hoppi, get an idea in your head and then whenever someone proves you wrong or says how your idea is flawed you just say something like, "lets agree to disagree". It's ridiculous you're promoting a diet so much that you haven't even tried.

Columbo wrote:Abkhasians, Vilcabambans, Hunzans, Okinawans consume, in large a vegan diet and are some of the longest living, disease free cultures on the planet (or at least, they were)

...yet they consume in small amounts: seafood and / or meat and / or raw dairy.

(They also all consume cooked grains or roots - though these are often prepared to remove anti nutrients)

This is true, the longest living and healthy civiliazations are on high carb diets. There are many advantages of a high carb diet but we have to be careful to not confuse correlation with causation. For example, the Abkhasians longevity is likely due to high altitude living.

This is true, the longest living and healthy civiliazations are on high carb diets. There are many advantages of a high carb diet but we have to be careful to not confuse correlation with causation. For example, the Abkhasians longevity is likely due to high altitude living.

I imagine that living in a remote area would also reduce your exposure to environmental toxins.

I'm speculating, but I think living in modern civilization (compared to more primitive ones) is more likely to cause psychological problems like anxiety and depression.

tooyoung wrote:That's all you do hoppi, get an idea in your head and then whenever someone proves you wrong or says how your idea is flawed you just say something like, "lets agree to disagree". It's ridiculous you're promoting a diet so much that you haven't even tried.

The problem is this is entertainment for him. It's obvious. This is how he fills his time.

He likes the idea of there being different teams and that he's on the right team. Nothing, like the fact that he hasn't even practiced the diet he's promoting, will get in the way since he's identifying himself with this "team" of 30 bananas a day raw vegans. He wants their acceptance and to be in their clique. He wants to see himself as the guy he worships in the videos. That's the self image he's projecting on himself.

What I don't like is when a new person comes here to ask a question he spouts off "fruit & greens" with a smiley face. It's arrogant and it's insipid. I'm stunned the mods haven't put a stop to someone who in this thread admits he hasn't practiced the diet he's promoting and suggesting to people looking for help. It's reckless and if someone hasn't been in this forum long enough to know that he'll be moving on to tin foil hats in a month when he tires of raw veganism they may think he knows what he's taking about.

Giving people health advice isn't a freedom of speech issue. But it's "Hoppi against the man" in his whacked out world. He thinks it's fun sparring with people in this thread. He admitted it earlier when he was challenged with sound facts.

Hopefully, people read this thread and realize that this guy is prescribing a diet he hasn't tried, but likes the cocky SOB in the youtube videos so he must know what he's talking about.

It's an insult to CS and all the other people in here who do research and actually try regimens out before recommending them.

For the record I think people should take the metabolic typing test that CS posted earlier in this thread. It identified me awhile ago as Protein type 2. I do well on that diet, but recently decided to use the raw fruits and veggies that are OK for me on that list since I felt like my diet was lacking nutrients. I don't have any immediate results other than adding a banana a day along with blueberries, strawberries is making me feel more well rounded and satisfied diet wise. But my diet is animal protein and fats in combination with fresh organic produce. I do a carrot/apple/ginger/beet/celery juice every other day that makes me feel great. But if I drink it without consuming some protein & fat I get dizzy from it.

I think the key is finding out what is right for your type and then balancing that with the healthiest options you can find. Am I an expert? No. But CS has done more research than all of us combined and I'm certain he wouldn't be recommending that test to help guide us diet wise if he didn't think there was real validity to it.

I have nothing against raw veganism. I just don't know that it's the answer to EVERY medical issue like Hoppi pretends he knows it is without trying it for himself.

If he were as committed to his cause as he claims to be he would go off and try the diet with no cheating and see what it does for him health & hair wise for a series of months before telling people looking for help that he has their answer.

imprisoned-radical wrote:

This is true, the longest living and healthy civiliazations are on high carb diets. There are many advantages of a high carb diet but we have to be careful to not confuse correlation with causation. For example, the Abkhasians longevity is likely due to high altitude living.

I imagine that living in a remote area would also reduce your exposure to environmental toxins.

I'm speculating, but I think living in modern civilization (compared to more primitive ones) is more likely to cause psychological problems like anxiety and depression.

Most likely.

Abkhasians, Vilcabambans, and Hunzans actually all live at high altitude. Peat has a lot to say about that: http://www.tempfiles.net/download/201109/210740/Kmud_Altitude_kmud_100716_190000fritalk.html

abc123 wrote:

Columbo wrote:Abkhasians, Vilcabambans, Hunzans, Okinawans consume, in large a vegan diet and are some of the longest living, disease free cultures on the planet (or at least, they were)

...yet they consume in small amounts: seafood and / or meat and / or raw dairy.

(They also all consume cooked grains or roots - though these are often prepared to remove anti nutrients)

This is true, the longest living and healthy civiliazations are on high carb diets. There are many advantages of a high carb diet but we have to be careful to not confuse correlation with causation. For example, the Abkhasians longevity is likely due to high altitude living.

That's an interesting theory

I actually know fairly little about their diet (I'll research it) but yes it seems that most of these successful diets are built on the principle of high carbs.

So why would living at a high altitude be beneficial? o.O

abc123 wrote:the longest living and healthy civiliazations are on high carb diets.

Keep in mind that they are consuming fermented foods! Very important when eating high carb diets.

rdkml wrote:

abc123 wrote:the longest living and healthy civiliazations are on high carb diets.

Keep in mind that they are consuming fermented foods! Very important when eating high carb diets.

rdkml, can you elaborate a bit? Do fermented foods help with the digestion of carbs?

I'm a bit rusty here as it's been awhile. Think the biggest issue is keeping the pathogens in check and eliminating toxins. Here are some quotes:

"When carbohydrates are not fully digested and absorbed, they remain in our gut, and become nutrition for the microbes we host. The microbes themselves must digest these unused carbohydrates, and they do this through the process of fermentation. The waste products of fermentation are gases, such as methane, carbon dioxide & hydrogen, and both lactic & acetic acids, as well as toxins. All serve to irritate and damage "the gut. There is evidence that increased acidity in the gut due to malabsorption and fermentation of carbohydrates, may lead common harmless intestinal bacteria to mutate into more harmful ones."

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/beginners_guide/the_science_behind_the_diet2.htm

The SCD™ corrects the balance of bacteria types in the gut by eliminating the food supply of the undesirable types and so starves them out. Introducing SCD™ yoghurt aids this process as it repopulates the gut with beneficial bacteria which further displaces the harmful bacterial.

As the yogurt bacterial culture breaks down the lactose into simpler forms,
we will absorb the simpler carbohydrate molecules instead of their feeding
overgrowth of bacteria in the lower intestine."

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/beginners_guide/yoghurt/yog_importance.htm


Besides the book Breaking the Viscious Cycle which the above information is from, supposedly the book Eating Alive or Eating Alive 2 also gets into this process as well but I don't own Eating Alive.

BTW, same process occurs with too much fiber.

rdkml wrote:
BTW, same process occurs with too much fiber.

This is something I didn't get, as fiber is seen as prebiotic and beneficial for intestinal flora......maybe the ratio of good and bad bacteria you start out with decides if high fiber is beneficial or fatal!?

Good post from newport:
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1774680#i
"If you look at high fiber diets you also see high use of properly fermented yogurt to offset this."

A lot of yogurt and cheese in their diets. A high consumption of dairy and vegetables and low consumption of vegetable oil. They have the millet grains, but is not used regularly. A dish that is consumed often is a bland porridge like maize soup used for dipping.

This is interesting. Baldness is supposed to be uncommon among the Abkhasian men.