Re: Diet advice and opinon needed....

Hoppipolla Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:08 am

jeruslan wrote:
Hoppipolla wrote:
jeruslan wrote:
Hoppipolla wrote:Very short vid on the topic of different food for different people or groups of people

This You might find interesting... We are not chipmanzee... Although I do love idea behind the raw veganism, I am affriad, it is not true. However, I do think, that one can maintain health on a vegan diet.

Why so quick to cast aside 811 raw veganism?

Read the article, I have listed in my previous post and You will find answer. Although, I will try raw vegan diet as soon as I get to my college (this sunday).
But only becouse there is a lot of food on market of home grown producers. I will report results...

And... Even if I would choose to be raw vegan, I simply can not. It is possible only this time a year. There are plenty of grapes and other fruits and vegetables. But I can not imagine my self to be raw vegen during the winter and spring. I live in mild to cold climate (Slovakia) and in the country, with weak Euro. My family is wealthy, but I must confess, there is no way I could afford to buy organic vegetables during the winter. Four apples costs about 1,5 Euros, three carrot costs 1 Euro, one coconut costs 1,3 Euro, avocado costs 1,3 Euro and the list goes on... This is simply too much. And being a raw vegan on regular supermarket vegetables and fruits is, in my opinon, not as benefical...

You can be raw vegan, becouse of the country You are living, but the rest of the world (except USA, Canada and Western Europe) do not have such economical power to exploit Third world countries...

And after all, what about legumes? I really like pea...
And what about sprouting? Why do not sprout? I am planning to sprout Alfalfa and broccoli seedy, to have something full of enzymes.

And... If You consider Yourself eco-friendly, it is much better to be "regular" vegan, than raw vegen, considering the amount of energy spend on the transport of all the tropical goodies to Your local supermarket...

Jeruslan

Actually I do it mainly for dietary reasons!

I usually use fruit for carbs, greens for nutrition and nuts and seeds to fill the gaps left (and consumed in low numbers). So if I really want to save money, I can buy bananas, dates, cheap greens, and then just sometimes buy nuts/seeds!

Kale is my preferred green!

And thing is man I follow Harley when he says "Judge by results, not theory".

When I first saw Harley and first saw the guy who lives "successfully" off of raw meat and meat (Daniel Vitalis) I honestly thought Harley was about 19-21 and Freelee his girlfriend was 18-20 and Daniel was more like 39-40. I was sitting at my pc thinking "Come on mate that's not fair to have a go, he's like TWICE you age!". And then I found out that they are the same age!!

I just judge by results not theory, and this diet works MIRACLES! It has been praised for reversing pretty much every health concern we can imagine, all without killing a single animal or milking a single cow.

Try reading The China Study or even just looking it up on Wikipedia.

The human body seems to do VERY well on a high carb raw vegan diet!

And beans and legumes? Why? Fruits and greens my friend, fruits and greens ^_^

Easier on your tummy, time-saving, better for gut flora, more natural ^^

pancacke Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:35 am

Hoppipolla wrote:I follow Harley when he says "Judge by results, not theory".

Cool.....what results did you get from fighting candida for a year, it's still there right? Isn't it true that you desperatly hang onto a theory that didn't give you any results so far?

Talk about judging by results not theory^^

Hoppipolla Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:47 am

pancacke wrote:
Hoppipolla wrote:I follow Harley when he says "Judge by results, not theory".
Cool.....what results did you get from fighting candida for a year, it's still there right? Isn't it true that you desperatly hang onto a theory that didn't give you any results so far?

Talk about judging by results not theory^^

I've never tried this approach to fighting Candida before. I started today, and will now remain on 100% fruits and greens for 3 weeks or so before adding back in the occassional fat source such as avocado.

I am also taking colloidal silver Smile

hadrion Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:11 am

Hoppipolla wrote:
pancacke wrote:
Hoppipolla wrote:I follow Harley when he says "Judge by results, not theory".
Cool.....what results did you get from fighting candida for a year, it's still there right? Isn't it true that you desperatly hang onto a theory that didn't give you any results so far?

Talk about judging by results not theory^^

I've never tried this approach to fighting Candida before. I started today, and will now remain on 100% fruits and greens for 3 weeks or so before adding back in the occassional fat source such as avocado.

I am also taking colloidal silver

Forgive me, but you've been stumping on here for weeks promoting raw veganism and you're just committing to the diet today? Do you realize how ridiculous that makes you sound? I know you don't care about how foolish this makes you look, but you are pushing an agenda in here that you have not even fully committed to. That is the height of irresponsibility. I realize this internet health thing fills your time but do us all a favor and chill out man. I agree that consuming some raw fruits & veggies MIGHT BE a good part of a diet and I'm incorporating and experimenting it into mine, but you don't see me posting incessantly about something I have no results for. Calm down.

As for the vegan having great hair at 30, I had perfect hair until 33-34 and then it all went haywire. I hadn't lost a strand up until then. That proves nothing.

sdguy Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:08 am

Hoppipolla wrote:Try reading The China Study or even just looking it up on Wikipedia.

Read some of Denise Minger's analyses of the China Study on rawfoodsos, she's a former vegan who went back to animal products based on the data.

As Brian always says, some people will thrive on just about any diet, it all comes down to our individual biochemistry. If you look good and feel good on a vegan diet, congrats! But don't judge the diet based on some Aussie's results, you have to experience it yourself.

pancacke Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:14 am

hadrion wrote:

Forgive me, but you've been stumping on here for weeks promoting raw veganism and you're just committing to the diet today? Do you realize how ridiculous that makes you sound? I know you don't care about how foolish this makes you look, but you are pushing an agenda in here that you have not even fully committed to. That is the height of irresponsibility. I realize this internet health thing fills your time but do us all a favor and chill out man. I agree that consuming some raw fruits & veggies MIGHT BE a good part of a diet and I'm incorporating and experimenting it into mine, but you don't see me posting incessantly about something I have no results for. Calm down.

I second hadrion, what you are doing here is a joke hoppipolla...

Hoppipolla Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:29 am

No I mean, I have been doing it for a long time but only lazily and on and off. I realized that if you want real results you have to go in 100%. No rice, no sneaky other foods, etc etc.

I dunno guys, again it's just my opinion. You can insult it all as much as you want but ultimately you're only really insulting yourselves.

Oo burn! haha Smile

hadrion Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:38 am

Your "opinion" is based on a regimen you haven't even fully committed to? Do you mentally understand how ridiculous that makes you look? Seriously. Can you even comprehend that? I'm not sure you can.

You want to do us all a favor?

Do your regimen at 100% for 6 months and get back to us. If you couldn't commit to this perfect way of living 100% until now I have little time or patience for you telling people who are looking for advice what to do. You don't even know what it will do for you or your hair.

You're like a Labrador Retriever with a frisbee in here. Equol, Candida, now raw veganism. Do you realize you go nuts about something and fill up the forum with it every few months only to drop it and move on to the next new thing?

This is what you do. Try to calm yourself and practice what you preach before you start preaching it.

Commit to a regimen, give it 6 months of "100%" adherence and then come back to us with your findings. Not what you're seeing on Youtube or what you're reading happened to other people. We need to know hat happened to you when you were perfect on your regimen. Take before pictures of your hair right now and in 6 months show us the difference or show us maintenance. Write down what you weigh and what your blood tests results are today and then come back in 6 months and repost the current results? Is that outlandish to ask?

If you can't do that or you're unwilling, I really think it's time to ban you or at the very least give you a 60 day time out from this place.

People coming in here for the first time are going to see you non stop going nuts over raw veganism. They deserve to know that you have not even committed to it 100% yet for any length of time.

I think raw fruits & veggies can be a wonderful part of one's diet, but to tell people that's the only way to eat based on no real experience other than you're trying it and cheating until today is reprehensible.

pancacke Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:41 am

Hoppipolla wrote:No I mean, I have been doing it for a long time but only lazily and on and off. I realized that if you want real results you have to go in 100%. No rice, no sneaky other foods, etc etc.

I dunno guys, again it's just my opinion. You can insult it all as much as you want but ultimately you're only really insulting yourselves.

Oo burn! haha :)

pancacke wrote:what you are doing here is a joke hoppipolla...

imprisoned-radical Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:31 am

Hoppi,

I've never once seen you back up your opinions by posting scientific studies. You just post bullshit youtube videos from new age nutritional gurus.

Furthermore you don't read/acknowledge anything that is not congruent with your latest half-baked convictions about diet/health. And that would be fine if you weren't so insistent on flooding the forum with those half-baked ideas.

Nobody's making fun of you because what you're doing isn't funny.

Hoppipolla Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:00 am

Thing is, I'm not going to stop expressing my opinion on diet. If someone says "What diet should I follow?" I will currently invariably say 811 raw veganism, because that is my opinion. You can disagree as much as you want and that's totally healthy, but I'm not going to sit here and bite my tongue when I get asked questions like that - that would be stupid.

Additionally, yes I will very much report if it gets success with candida or hair loss, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to keep quiet when someone asks me (or the forum) about diet.

I'm sorry but that's just the way it is, it's part of having your own opinion and it's part of free speech.

jeruslan Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:51 am

Hoppipolla wrote:Thing is, I'm not going to stop expressing my opinion on diet. If someone says "What diet should I follow?" I will currently invariably say 811 raw veganism, because that is my opinion. You can disagree as much as you want and that's totally healthy, but I'm not going to sit here and bite my tongue when I get asked questions like that - that would be stupid.

Additionally, yes I will very much report if it gets success with candida or hair loss, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to keep quiet when someone asks me (or the forum) about diet.

I'm sorry but that's just the way it is, it's part of having your own opinion and it's part of free speech.

You know how to speach, that is for sure... But You should definitely learn to listen. The source of the problem is not You spreading unscientific videos. If it stoped there, it would be fine... The problem is, that You do not bother to read any articles, studies, papers which are posted by someone else! You simply do not care! There are numerous examples, where You ignore what some other guy, in this case, it is me, say and continue to blabber about raw veganinsm and posting random raw vegan guru video! As I mentioned before (I am sure, that You do not rember it) I am in fact inclined towards veganism. I just expressed my doubts about strict raw veganism. And I have posted an article, which explain why we can not count on Chmipanzee similarity paradigm. You, did not read it and ignored it, as usually, keep posting random videos. By random I mean not related to the topic, that has beed discused. Please, if You want to participate, read what Your parter in discsucion said. Or You are one of those preachers, which have the same answer for various questions? Keep in my mind, that if You do not read what the discussant have posted, You acctualy insulting him by Your ignorance, becouse You do not consider his argument worthy of Your time! If it is so, and You want to continue with Your quest of makeing everyone know, that You are raw vegan and it is a best thing in the world, Thank You, we already know that, for probably more then a month!
If You are so desperate and You simply must post raw vegan videos, make a thred on Your own, name it: "Hoppilpolla goes raw vegan! Can You dig it?" and let off steam there. I am sure, people here will let You have Your own piece of a land...

I will repeat my self, becouse I am more then sure, that reading a comment will took you about half of a milisecond, I have nothing against veganism, I am incline to this type of diet! I have nothing again raw veganism, althoug I have my doubts, I wish them all good luck. However, I am growing disquiet by Your ignorance and ineadequate replays! Please, read this as slow as You can, at least for three times! Maybe, You will get at the end, what everyone trying to tell You all the time!

PS: To be honest, I do not expect Hoppipolla to change his manner. I expect another ignorant replay...

Jeruslan

Smurfy Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:24 am

This is reminding me of a low-grade MisterE situation. Someone spreading what they consider gospel based on some random guys experiences, just relaying the same info onto us because its what he wants us to believe. This is one guy in a video saying he feels better when does this and that, not a large number of people undergoing a controlled study. In one of those videos, I recall the guy saying "you don't need honey, it's nothing more than bee spit". It's been widely shown otherwise, I think Imprisoned-Radical posted it? As we know, MisterE kept pushing his adamant ways regardless of factual studies showing clearly otherwise. At this rate, I see this ending up just as MisterE did.

Closed-mindedness/ignorance is the biggest killer.

I've tried straight fruit and vegan, and it only took 3 days before I felt totally drained of energy and well-being. There is no way a one-size-fits-all diet works.

IMO a candida problem shouldn't take long to fix. I cleared my digestive issues in a couple months max, mainly with colostrum and coconut oil. (notice the animal and fat content)

abc123 Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:37 am

I'm surprised everyone's jumping on hippo here.

If you're dumb enough to believe raw veganism by a couple of videos hoppi posts then that's your own fault. Sometimes learning the hard way is the only way for people to learn.

Anyways, this is another reason why there needs to be some stickies in the forum explaining group concenceous so noobs don't get confused by peoples opinions.

abc123 Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:42 am

Hoppi:

Doug Graham, durian rider, dean ornish etc etc are all wrong when It comes to their ideas on fat. And keep in mind I have no biases against them as someone who gets 75% of his calories from fruit.

The stupidest thing you can do with regards to health and diet is blindly believing something and not being open to opposing evidence. In the end you are only hurting yourself.

bh2o Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:04 am

pancacke wrote:-no soy
-no processed food(or less)
-no vegetable oil for cooking
-pure water
-good cookware

The rest is up for debate.....I think most can only tolerate fermented milk and shouldn't eat to much starches and carbs in general.

What is your opinion on the soy content in some supplements out there? Should I stay away from those supps and find something free of soy?

Can anyone answer this?

pancacke Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:44 am

If you can, sure...but this is tiny compared to cooking with unfermented soy or eating processed foods which almost all contain soy.

bh2o Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:22 pm

That's what I was thinking--kind of a dumb question. Thanks dude.

Hoppipolla Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:14 pm

abc123 wrote:Hoppi:

Doug Graham, durian rider, dean ornish etc etc are all wrong when It comes to their ideas on fat. And keep in mind I have no biases against them as someone who gets 75% of his calories from fruit.

The stupidest thing you can do with regards to health and diet is blindly believing something and not being open to opposing evidence. In the end you are only hurting yourself.

you think so?

But if that's true then why does it work so well? It seems to heal candida (according to tons of testimonials on my candida thread I started on there) and... most other things too. Why do you think they are wrong?

I would happily get 15% from fat but I wouldn't go higher than that personally, certainly not comfortably.

Hoppipolla Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:19 pm

abc123 wrote:I'm surprised everyone's jumping on hippo here.

If you're dumb enough to believe raw veganism by a couple of videos hoppi posts then that's your own fault. Sometimes learning the hard way is the only way for people to learn.

Anyways, this is another reason why there needs to be some stickies in the forum explaining group concenceous so noobs don't get confused by peoples opinions.

heh, yeah there's some truth in that. I'm sure as hell not going to sit here wasting my life tracking down studies, although I did find it funny how the screen filled up with success stories when I googled "fibromyalgia raw vegan" for my friend.

I don't agree with the latter part though - there is a lot of division and I would feel uncomfortable with a sticky at the top going on about a diet that I think is wrong when in reality this is supposed to be a community with a plethora of opinions ^^

But yeah...

That's all! It's too late here to type much now xD

abc123 Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:34 pm

Hoppipolla wrote:
abc123 wrote:I'm surprised everyone's jumping on hippo here.

If you're dumb enough to believe raw veganism by a couple of videos hoppi posts then that's your own fault. Sometimes learning the hard way is the only way for people to learn.

Anyways, this is another reason why there needs to be some stickies in the forum explaining group concenceous so noobs don't get confused by peoples opinions.

heh, yeah there's some truth in that. I'm sure as hell not going to sit here wasting my life tracking down studies, although I did find it funny how the screen filled up with success stories when I googled "fibromyalgia raw vegan" for my friend.

I don't agree with the latter part though - there is a lot of division and I would feel uncomfortable with a sticky at the top going on about a diet that I think is wrong when in reality this is supposed to be a community with a plethora of opinions ^^

But yeah...

That's all! It's too late here to type much now xD

Didn't mean to belittle the videos btw, I get a kick out of them. I'm talking about objectively, they offer not much proof. I can find much better evidence suggesting the vast majority of human's calories should come from carbs, particularly fruit Smile

abc123 Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:53 pm

Hoppipolla wrote:
abc123 wrote:Hoppi:

Doug Graham, durian rider, dean ornish etc etc are all wrong when It comes to their ideas on fat. And keep in mind I have no biases against them as someone who gets 75% of his calories from fruit.

The stupidest thing you can do with regards to health and diet is blindly believing something and not being open to opposing evidence. In the end you are only hurting yourself.

you think so?

But if that's true then why does it work so well? It seems to heal candida (according to tons of testimonials on my candida thread I started on there) and... most other things too. Why do you think they are wrong?

I would happily get 15% from fat but I wouldn't go higher than that personally, certainly not comfortably.

Simple answer: Just because the diet works does not mean the reason is animal product avoidance. These diets erroneously pin the blame animal products.

Compare a Standard American diet (which most people are on before they switch) to high carb raw vegan. Is the only difference saturated fat? A high carb raw vegan diet that Harley eats also eliminates vegetable oils and refined carbs like bread. It will also most likely be higher in minerals and vitamins. Key minerals that the SAD is defecient in, like magnesium and vitamin c. The macro-nutrient ratio will also be different. Do you see where I'm going with this? There are a million other factors at play here.

When high carb raw vegan works, great, but they have no good reason to attribute it to avoiding animal products. Why don't they place the blame on nutrient poor diets, vegetable oils, refined carbs etc? Placing the blame on animal products is them simply being idealistic for the hell of it.

Most of these gurus misinterpret facts to justify their biases against animal products. When these guys say that FAT interferes with getting sugar into the cell, it's true but it's not animal fat that you are eating. Imprisoned-Radicals explaination of the situation is accurate.

BTW Animal products and saturated fat are VERY anti candida.

abc123 Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:54 pm

http://freetheanimal.com/2011/04/a-100-raw-vegan-success-story.html

http://freetheanimal.com/2011/09/is-the-raw-vegan-movement-getting-healthier-and-healthier.html

Diet advice and opinon needed.... - Page 2 Before-After

Diet advice and opinon needed.... - Page 2 Before-After

Before on the LEFT, after on the right.

TransGirl Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:27 pm

I promised myself to avoid this, but I just have to add my two worthless cents.

There is no diet that fits all. There is no magic cure for all illness by being overly zealous or religious about a single diet.

Now, if you look at human beings we were probably very seasonal eaters. Fruits and greens when available, meat when able, and so on. In other words, we are an adaptable race. We adapted to the seasons and the lay of the land and sometimes it meant more fruit and sometimes more meat, but that does not mean paleo or fruitarian is superior. I see slowly people coming forth on both accounts that admit the "pure" diets made them worse. People are way too eager to think of humans as some simple car that needs a single fuel source. I'd also add that both diets can easily fail because it sucks getting organics. I can't imagine trying to buy organic fruits all year long where I live. I'd have to win a lottery and work as a hooker. I also can't imagine eating huge slabs of meat every day. What I did is that I just cut out what I believed was evil for me, that mostly being gluten and dairy. It takes several weeks to get over gluten(seems to stick around in the system for so long), but I feel better because of it. I fell down once on the anti-gluten wagon and had to pay for that during the next 3 weeks as I felt depression and anxiety.

So test what feels right to you and see if it gives you benefits. If it doesn't try something else.
Maybe fruitarian is awesome during the middle of the year and paleo during winter, who knows.

(I have an appointment with doctor to rule out coeliac because of how I react to gluten)

Hoppipolla Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:54 pm

abc123 wrote:
Hoppipolla wrote:
abc123 wrote:Hoppi:

Doug Graham, durian rider, dean ornish etc etc are all wrong when It comes to their ideas on fat. And keep in mind I have no biases against them as someone who gets 75% of his calories from fruit.

The stupidest thing you can do with regards to health and diet is blindly believing something and not being open to opposing evidence. In the end you are only hurting yourself.

you think so?

But if that's true then why does it work so well? It seems to heal candida (according to tons of testimonials on my candida thread I started on there) and... most other things too. Why do you think they are wrong?

I would happily get 15% from fat but I wouldn't go higher than that personally, certainly not comfortably.

Simple answer: Just because the diet works does not mean the reason is animal product avoidance. These diets erroneously pin the blame animal products.

Compare a Standard American diet (which most people are on before they switch) to high carb raw vegan. Is the only difference saturated fat? A high carb raw vegan diet that Harley eats also eliminates vegetable oils and refined carbs like bread. It will also most likely be higher in minerals and vitamins. Key minerals that the SAD is defecient in, like magnesium and vitamin c. The macro-nutrient ratio will also be different. Do you see where I'm going with this? There are a million other factors at play here.

When high carb raw vegan works, great, but they have no good reason to attribute it to avoiding animal products. Why don't they place the blame on nutrient poor diets, vegetable oils, refined carbs etc? Placing the blame on animal products is them simply being idealistic for the hell of it.

Most of these gurus misinterpret facts to justify their biases against animal products. When these guys say that FAT interferes with getting sugar into the cell, it's true but it's not animal fat that you are eating. Imprisoned-Radicals explaination of the situation is accurate.

BTW Animal products and saturated fat are VERY anti candida.

I honestly think it depends who you ask. While it does seem to be revealing itself to me that humans do well without meat and dairy, my focus is personally not usually on that but on starch vs fructose, gluten, carbs vs fat, protein levels needed, etc.

For example, at the moment, it is being suggested to me by everyone on 30bad that for Candida I should cut ALL overt fats, not just meat and dairy. This includes avocadoes, coconuts, olives, nuts, seeds, etc. It really doesn't dwell THAT much on animal products to be honest as usually the focus is health not ethics (although of course both come into it) so we are just as concerned with other things like starch and gluten.

I guess I don't sit here providing evidence why starchy grains are inferior to fructose-high fruits or why carbs are a superior as a human energy source to fat, as... to be honest it all seems inevitable (and obvious) to me based on our history and physiology. Grains are a very recent addition to our diet and were mainly useful with the dawn of agriculture as they are storable, easy to grow in huge amounts anywhere, etc etc. They make more sense within towns and villages for these reasons. But that does not mean they're better for our bodies.

Additionally, it seems that humans crave carbohydrate much more than fat. If you were starving and you could choose either a massive pile of a carby food such as bananas or rice to eat, or a massive pile of avocadoes or lard or something, which would you choose?

The logic for me was if carbs were an inferior energy source to humans a) why do we crave them so much and b) why does everyone on 30bad look so darn healthy? lol

And that's a strange before and after comparison lol - 99.9% of them are the other way around! Smile

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