Does Minox work for diffuse hair loss?

I know I have thyroid problem but I want put a band aid on it (minox) while I address the primary cause.

No..Especially if you want to reduce the toxic load on your body... It will make you more toxic though, just what your body needs, go on lather up!

LLLT works very well for diffuse hairloss.

NDW wrote:LLLT works very well for diffuse hairloss.

Is this based on your experience?

It's based on a combination of my experience and other people's testimony of LLLT.

young trunks wrote:I know I have thyroid problem but I want put a band aid on it (minox) while I address the primary cause.

Your thyroid is low so you're going to treat your scalp with a topical?

droddy wrote:

young trunks wrote:I know I have thyroid problem but I want put a band aid on it (minox) while I address the primary cause.

Your thyroid is low so you're going to treat your scalp with a topical?

I supposed? I may be converting T into estrogen...will find out soon but I feel like I'm losing so much hair so fast it won't come back

I agree with the first reply. You most likely have other foreign poisons in your system so why add another. Also, I hear many complaints from people who say minoxodil aged their face. Minoxidil is more of a money maker for large drug companies rather than a reliable treatment for hair loss. I've also heard of claims that minoxodil worsened hairloss in some.

There are other, safer ways that have gotten results.

minoxidil gives you a slight offset of hair growth.  it doesnt slow the balding process once you factor in that offset (how do we know -- placebo control. there is no difference in the continued RATE of hair loss between minox users and placebo users, so it doesnt slow the rate of balding).  so it might bide you a year or two.  you can chart the line at which curve crosses the baseline slope by extrapolating.  the straight line curve fit puts it at about 2 years but we know the balding rate tends to increase with aging so the straight line fit is probably optimistic.  with a concurrent treatment that actually slows balding that offset might be worth it, but otherwise i dont think it is.  if your balding is really mild or slow paced maybe its worth it

For this type of hairloss the best treatment is fin/dut people respond very well when they are difussed thinners. Unfortunately tho many people have put others off trying fin/dut due to horror stories. I have been on DUT for 6 months without a single side, however sides are possible but generally subside over time. I do know tho that if I started to get limp dick I would get straight off it, however my libido is better than before DUT due to the increase in testosterone.

Not sure what natural things there are for this tho people will probably tell you to get a gimpy laser helmet and brush all day which most likely won't work.

You could also try dermarolling and maybe something like CB/RU which acts in a similar way to fin/dut but doesn't go systematic so the sides are not there.

I wouldn't mess around with any of those things (dut/fin/minox whatever).

Diffuse hair loss is common in thyroid problems because the hair is not receiving proper hormonal signaling to enter growth phase.

Thyroid supplementation is not much luck (long-term) because it doesn't fix the root cause of your thyroid disfunction.

You could try desiccated thyroid for a few months (or synthetic, whichever you feel works better) and see if it "sticks".

If not, some thyroid boosting herbs like ashwagandha, or commiphora (guggul / guggulsterones) might help to kick it back into business.

It's quite hard to actually cure / fix a thyroid problem because not much research is put into that aspect of it (the big money is in "treating" aka stuffing you with hormones for the rest of your life). There are many problems with taking thyroid supplements which is why virtually nobody feels as good on replacement hormones as they did before they became hypothyroid. Not surprising as you cannot replace a gland with a pill. There is no heart pill, kidney pill or liver pill, so expecting that a thyroid pill will substitute for an entire organ is just ridiculous (like plenty of other aspects of the medical business).

I've found 450 mg of ashwagandha has really helped me in the past few days, in some ways even more so than 75/12.5 T4/T3 combo.

DeadlyDevice wrote:I wouldn't mess around with any of those things (dut/fin/minox whatever).

Diffuse hair loss is common in thyroid problems because the hair is not receiving proper hormonal signaling to enter growth phase.

Thyroid supplementation is not much luck (long-term) because it doesn't fix the root cause of your thyroid disfunction.

You could try desiccated thyroid for a few months (or synthetic, whichever you feel works better) and see if it "sticks".

If not, some thyroid boosting herbs like ashwagandha, or commiphora (guggul / guggulsterones) might help to kick it back into business.

It's quite hard to actually cure / fix a thyroid problem because not much research is put into that aspect of it (the big money is in "treating" aka stuffing you with hormones for the rest of your life). There are many problems with taking thyroid supplements which is why virtually nobody feels as good on replacement hormones as they did before they became hypothyroid. Not surprising as you cannot replace a gland with a pill. There is no heart pill, kidney pill or liver pill, so expecting that a thyroid pill will substitute for an entire organ is just ridiculous (like plenty of other aspects of the medical business).

I've found 450 mg of ashwagandha has really helped me in the past few days, in some ways even more so than 75/12.5 T4/T3 combo.

You wouldn't mess around with them because you are uneducated in them and chose to follow horror stories around these treatments. It's a shame really as they are some of the only treatments proven to help regrow/maintain hair. I too listened to the horror stories then I read up a lot about these and ddecided to give DUT a try. My hairs got better and better 6 months in. I did have quite a big shed but I carried on and I'm glad I did. Also had zero sides so far which is a bonus

Blah blah blah...

If he has a thyroid issue he needs to fix that and restore the hormones which will make his hair grow, not put synthetic poisons inside his body while ignoring the main issue at hand...

Whatever, do what you will, your own body, same goes for anyone else.

ratbag wrote:For this type of hairloss the best treatment is fin/dut people respond very well when they are difussed thinners. Unfortunately tho many people have put others off trying fin/dut due to horror stories. I have been on DUT for 6 months without a single side, however sides are possible but generally subside over time. I do know tho that if I started to get limp dick I would get straight off it, however my libido is better than before DUT due to the increase in testosterone.

Not sure what natural things there are for this tho people will probably tell you to get a gimpy laser helmet and brush all day which most likely won't work.

You could also try dermarolling and maybe something like CB/RU which acts in a similar way to fin/dut but doesn't go systematic so the sides are not there.

There are very good reasons that horror stories are circulated about these drugs. Its really a matter of how you are going to personally weigh the risks, which essentially comes down to how important your hair is to you. Can these drugs have benefits? Yes, but typically at a high cost. They work by poisoning enzymes, very important ones (not just for hair). If the potential for systemic side effects (not the least of which is changes in sexual desire/function) worries you less than your hair situation, then by all means go for the drugs. They might buy you some more good years with your hair. And more power to you if you are one of the lucky ones who manage to avoid sides. But to me, assessing the risk is obvious. There isn't a chance in hell I'll start inhibiting enzymes to that extent in order to protect my hair, not when so many other things I value about my mind/body depend on the effected hormone levels.

I realize the lack of real, side-free solutions is frustrating. I really do believe there will be breakthroughs in the near future, the prostaglandin signalling is getting a good deal of focus, by the industry and otherwise. Is that the perfect angle? Probably not, but it will likely be loads safer than 5-ar inhibition.

I've yet to see a topical come through for us. When you start getting down to the end-organ, you need specificity for certain molecules that most of our topicals don't have. You also need absorption that a lot of things just can't achieve. The few chemicals I've seen come along that showed promise, seemed to be pretty disappointing at the end of the day. For right now I think the bimatoprost and cromoglicic acid show the most theoretical promise IMO, perhaps combined with something like tromalite salicylate and something quercetin-based. But with the current topical technology you do need some type of antiandrogen , and its when we get to that aspect that we see these things fail. As far as RU, it seems to be a lot of talk about talk: "So and so said they were getting great results". The couple of people I have talked to about RU did not have good things to say, and sourcing it is difficult/unreliable.

I'll be blunt about this topic. I don't think minoxidil has *any* place in a viable hair loss treatment. Taking 5-AR blockers like Finasteride/Dutasteride is playing Russian roulette, even if side-effects appear for the present time to be limited for some, the long-term effects can be real, but unnoticed until later on. Also, minoxidil undermines other methods.

I think if the risks were understood, no one would gamble with these things. Premature aging the skin with minoxidil and undermining the thyroid?  Undermining neuroactive steroid hormones with 5-AR blockers, not an easy way to handle life.

Being successful with natural methods requires more than a cursory exploration and experimentation. It's distressing to watch those who throw in the towel before the body even has a chance.

I wonder how minoxidil can age your skin. On other hairloss sites minox users said they actually look younger than their age.

Fair enough I respect the decision to not take fin/dut have you thought about using cb instead similar AA but doesn't go systematic. There are a few of us having initial results with this. Guy above is right tho go down the thyroid route first.

if minoxidil ages the skin, then it probably does so by inhibiting the enzyme that produces collagen

Dermatologica. 1987;175 Suppl 2:12-8.
Effects of minoxidil on cultured human skin fibroblasts.
Pinnell SR, Murad S.

Two important findings related to the effect of minoxidil on human skin fibroblasts in culture are reviewed. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is associated with a specific loss of lysyl hydroxylase activity; this loss occurs gradually and is reversed by removing minoxidil from the culture medium. Experiments with inhibitors of protein and RNA synthesis reveal that minoxidil may inhibit the synthesis of lysyl hydroxylase by acting at the transcriptional level. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is also associated with inhibition of proliferation, without any sign of cytotoxicity. This effect of minoxidil is accompanied by inhibition of DNA synthesis. Since collagen is the major product of fibroblast activity and lysyl hydroxylase catalyzes a crucial reaction in collagen biosynthesis, the combined effects of minoxidil offer the potential for its use as an antifibrotic agent. Thus, minoxidil may prove to be beneficial in treating skin conditions associated with collagen accumulation.

Br J Dermatol. 2004 Feb;150(2):186-94.
Minoxidil: mechanisms of action on hair growth.
Messenger AG, Rundegren J.

We have known for over 30 years that minoxidil stimulates hair growth, yet our understanding of its mechanism of action on the hair follicle is very limited. In animal studies, topical minoxidil shortens telogen, causing premature entry of resting hair follicles into anagen, and it probably has a similar action in humans. Minoxidil may also cause prolongation of anagen and increases hair follicle size. Orally administered minoxidil lowers blood pressure by relaxing vascular smooth muscle through the action of its sulphated metabolite, minoxidil sulphate, as an opener of sarcolemmal KATP channels. There is some evidence that the stimulatory effect of minoxidil on hair growth is also due to the opening of potassium channels by minoxidil sulphate, but this idea has been difficult to prove and to date there has been no clear demonstration that KATP channels are expressed in the hair follicle. A number of in vitro effects of minoxidil have been described in monocultures of various skin and hair follicle cell types including stimulation of cell proliferation, inhibition of collagen synthesis, and stimulation of vascular endothelial growth factor and prostaglandin synthesis. Some or all of these effects may be relevant to hair growth, but the application of results obtained in cell culture studies to the complex biology of the hair follicle is uncertain. In this article we review the current state of knowledge on the mode of action of minoxidil on hair growth and indicate lines of future research.

Matrix Biol. 2005 Jun;24(4):261-70.
Minoxidil exerts different inhibitory effects on gene expression of lysyl hydroxylase 1, 2, and 3: implications for collagen cross-linking and treatment of fibrosis.
Zuurmond AM, van der Slot-Verhoeven AJ, van Dura EA, De Groot J, Bank RA.

Collagen deposits in fibrotic lesions often display elevated levels of hydroxyallysine (pyridinoline) cross-links. The relation between the occurrence of pyridinoline cross-links and the irreversibility of fibrosis suggests that these cross-links contribute to the aberrant accumulation of collagen. Based on its inhibitory effect on lysyl hydroxylase activity minoxidil has been postulated to possess anti-fibrotic properties by limiting the hydroxylysine supply for hydroxyallysine cross-linking. However, to interfere with hydroxyallysine cross-linking specifically lysyl hydroxylation of the collagen telopeptide should be inhibited, a reaction predominantly catalysed by lysyl hydroxylase (LH) 2b. In this study, we demonstrate that minoxidil treatment of cultured fibroblasts reduces LH1>>LH2b>LH3 mRNA levels dose-and time-dependently, but has essentially no effect on the total number of pyridinoline cross-links in the collagen matrix. Still the collagen produced in the presence of minoxidil displays some remarkable features: hydroxylation of triple helical lysine residues is reduced to 50% and lysylpyridinoline cross-linking is increased at the expense of hydroxylysylpyridinoline cross-linking. These observations can be explained by our finding that LH1 mRNA levels are the most sensitive to minoxidil treatment, corroborating that LH1 has a preference for triple helical lysine residues as substrate. In addition, the non-proportional increase in cross-links (20-fold) with respect to the decrease in lysyl hydroxylation state of the triple helix (2-fold) even suggests that LH1 preferentially hydroxylates triple helical lysine residues at the cross-link positions. We conclude that minoxidil is unlikely to serve as an anti-fibroticum, but confers features to the collagen matrix, which provide insight into the substrate specificity of LH1.

Well, there ya go haha.

CS is this good to use? My holistic doctor says it's good for adrenal fatigue hairloss and the reversal of grey hair.

If so where do I get a good brand?

bump

Back in the day when I was a hairloss noob I tried Foam 5% which turned out to be a bad idea in retrospect because I feel I never regained the hair I lost from discontinuing it. Not to mention my face bloated up like a whale and I looked like a blowfish my facial aesthetics were gone in a few months. Ugh, HL is an ugly nasty game.

I will add that I had a much more pleasant experience with a product from germany which was liposomal minox sulfate (CS agrees that this is a much better option for topicals as far as protecting from toxicity/adverse affects)

Some subsitutes:

Adenogen (it works)
Copper peptides

young trunks wrote:CS is this good to use? My holistic doctor says it's good for adrenal fatigue hairloss and the reversal of grey hair.

If so where do I get a good brand?

Mg Chloride is good to support adrenal function, however there is more to it.

For Gray hair, I have this article that explains what may help:

http://longevitypost.com/reversing-the-gray-away-naturally/

CausticSymmetry wrote:

young trunks wrote:CS is this good to use? My holistic doctor says it's good for adrenal fatigue hairloss and the reversal of grey hair.

If so where do I get a good brand?

Mg Chloride is good to support adrenal function, however there is more to it.

For Gray hair, I have this article that explains what may help:

http://longevitypost.com/reversing-the-gray-away-naturally/

Thanks...I don't have gray hair though. I have massive shed. Do you know of what online store I can buy mag. chloride?