CausticSymmetry on Fructose

I notice more energy and less mood swings when drinking orange juice and an improved sense of well being(although slight-it is there and helpful).

Some decent health sites and even doctors (Mercola being one) think fructose is very bad. I feel there is more to the story can you share your views on this CS?

NYJets - To save time, I copied some of my comments on off topic posts. My stances on Fructose and HFCS is a bit controversial.

In fact, I'll just say that how safe it is may be dependent on individual ability to metabolize it (there are some who cannot tolerate it).

I should also mention that the public has been sent a message about HFCS to the point where many think it's "worse" than sugar. This is not true. Personally have been ingesting it for years and will consistently choose it over sugar anytime.

A lot of research performed on rats showing negative effects of HFCS, simply does not transfer to humans to that level of adversity. Humans absorb about 3 to 5% of HFCS, rats absorb closer to 50%. The negative metabolic effects are far more pronounced in the rat than the human.

Cortisol can be worse than insulin when it is elevated. So, some sugar intake, whether it is by way of HFCS or a carbohydrate can lower elevated cortisol response and in turn lower inflammation. Of course, one can certainly over due the sugar/carb factor.

Since HFCS has only a moderate effect on insulin it is not much of a concern. In any event, HFCS or sugar can be dealt with easier if there are nutrients such as sulfur, magnesium, iodine and selenium. Plant antioxidants can further mitigate the effects of these sugars. To make it safer under high load conditions (drinking or eating foods that are loaded with it), I will take enough plant based antioxidants to improve how the liver deals/metabolizes with the paltry amounts that are absorbed in humans (compared to our rat counterparts).

Over the last decade, I've carefully reviewed the literature about HFCS and fructose itself. The research I cite comes from 2013 California University research, which addressed issues concerning human metabolism. Unfortunately, most studies condemning HFCS are based on (rats) animal research.

The mercury connection is no longer a present danger. However, having said that. HFCS is afterall, a sugar and should be used in moderation. For active adults, a 100 grams per day is met with negligible negative metabolic effects. Is it only beyond the 100 gram level per day, that things can get harmful.

However, for an inactive adult, 50 grams is probably the safe limit on this stuff. Positive effects with respect to working out are shown with doses in the 10 gram range or so.

The bottom line, is that both HFCS and sugar are a matter of dosage. To me, sugar is more harmful, due to the insulin effect. I have noticed with personal experience that inflammation is higher with sugar as opposed to HFCS.

A lot of the proposed negative metabolic effects shown in the past have been fleshed out in further detail...and the metabolic derangement that was suggested just isn't to the level that many have proposed, such as Dr. Mercola and his team, et al.

In closing, I'll mention a few things that can help mitigate the dangers when HFCS is consumed in excess.

http://www.iherb.com/Twinlab-Flexibility-Solution-60-Capsules/10496

http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Acetyl-L-Carnitine-Alpha-Lipoic-Acid-650-mg-60-Tablets/1013

Excuse my lack of knowledge on this topic but we can treat fructose from lets say OJ and HFCS from Cola the same? And if it is from OJ (100% Juice sometimes organic) you recommend not to exceed 100gs? I feel great when I drink half a gallon or more of OJ but I am scared it is doing damage.

In fact, I'll just say that how safe it is may be dependent on individual ability to metabolize it (there are some who cannot tolerate it).

What are some signs that we cannot tolerate? I guess what I am getting at is: Is the inability to metabolize fructose from OJ an internal deal(without physical/mental signs/symptoms)? Or will it show itself in other ways?

Thanks for the up to date reply.

There was a thread here recently on sugar, titled something along the lines of "sugar or not to sugar". Try searching for it. There are some good points made in it. You'll find that your activity levels and how you time sugar intake are two variables that are really important in how you handle sugar.

One tell tale sign you are unable to digest fructose well is you will bloat if you take in too much at one time, often accompanied by gas and belching. The reason is that due to your inability to digest it, it tends to make it further along the GI tract where it can be metabolized by gut bacteria, hence the gas and bloat. Do some research on FODMAPS (fermentable, oligo-, di-, mono-saccharides, and polyols). It seems to be beneficial to lower each of these types of carbohydrates if you are indeed sensitive, and this diet has shown some value in lowering symptoms of IBS. But again, some people thrive on simple sugars, so its up to you to deduce whether they are your problem or not.

Helpful list of FODMAP foods: http://cassandraforsythe.com/blog/Complete+FODMAP+List+For+a+Happy+Gut

Thanks AS54 and CS.

I feel I do good with sugar and noticed if I put some in coffee it takes the anxiety away that usually comes with it. I get zero bloating if i drink a ton of OJ and in fact have gotten lean (er) in the past on a high OJ diet and High fat diet although my activity levels were moderately high. I have low temps so Im most likely hypo and maybe this is why it helps.

NYJets - Fructose works well for me too. Ultimately, it depends on your body's ability to cope with it. I should point out that various antioxidants regularly discussed here improve how the body deals with it. 

Curcumin, lipoic acid and Quercetin are some examples. 

Activity level plays a large role in how well a higher load of fructose can be dealt with:

Diabetes. 2013 May 14. 
Exercise Prevents Fructose-Induced Hypertriglyceridemia in Healthy Young Subjects.

Department of Physiology, University of Lausanne, Lausanne, Switzerland.

Excess fructose intake causes hypertriglyceridemia and hepatic insulin resistance in sedentary humans. Since exercise improves insulin sensitivity in insulin-resistant patients, we hypothesized that it would also prevent fructose-induced hypertriglyceridemia. This study was therefore designed to evaluate the effects of exercise on circulating lipids in healthy subjects fed a weight-maintenance, high-fructose diet. Eight healthy males were studied on three occasions after 4 days of 1) a diet low in fructose and no exercise (C), 2) a diet with 30% fructose and no exercise (HFr), or 3) a diet with 30% fructose and moderate aerobic exercise (HFrEx). On all three occasions, a 9-h oral [13C]-labeled fructose loading test was performed on the fifth day to measure [13C]palmitate in triglyceride-rich lipoprotein (TRL)-triglycerides (TG). Compared with C, HFr significantly increased fasting glucose, total TG, TRL-TG concentrations, and apolipoprotein (apo)B48 concentrations as well as postfructose glucose, total TG, TRL-TG, and [13C]palmitate in TRL-TG. HFrEx completely normalized fasting and postfructose TG, TRL-TG, and [13C]palmitate concentration in TRL-TG and apoB48 concentrations. In addition, it increased lipid oxidation and plasma nonesterified fatty acid concentrations compared with HFr. These data indicate that exercise prevents the dyslipidemia induced by high fructose intake independently of energy balance.

maybe I'm wrong and regardless which one causes more insulin spikes, but isn't most HFCS made with gmo corn?

Fructose has only a marginal effect on insulin levels, at least in the short run. However, if one is sensitive to it, and tends to have a fatty build up of the liver, then in the longer run, can present a problem there.  Yet compared to sugar, its effect on short run insulin is quite low.

Regarding GMO, if you're dealing with HFCS made from corn, then there is a risk that it will contain some Glyphosate. 
The Evil Protection Agency (better known as the EPA) has just raised the "safe" limit to 200 parts per million. Not exactly safe, because it takes a lot less to create chaos.

Generally, the dangers of GMO itself lies in the protein, however still, the Glyphosate is a definite worry.  Not sure how much will be found in HFCS...worth looking into for sure.

This is turning out to be a solid thread. Thanks for your contributions CS. I get the same effects from drinking Coca Cola or a Sprite but worry about the HFCS (corn part really gets me). I'll still indulge occasionally but prefer 100% OJ. Coca Cola (Mexican Coke) in the glass bottles also works and could be an option (supposed to be made with cane sugar).

NYJets - When I indulge in soda (from the States with HFCS), I take a few things to help deter the metabolic effects. Mainly ALC (Acetyl L-Carnitine) and R-Lipoic Acid, along with the hair regimen which helps anyway.

Mexican cokes and also from Europe has a distinctly different taste and effect. They will spike insulin more, since
they have sugar...However, in their favor, they regulate leptin levels better (so it's easier to drink less of it).

CS you have said somewhere that HFCS raises 5ar/DHT (lowers SHBG) and elavate uric acid, was that meant if indulged in excess? After reading all this, probably sugar would raise 5ar even more because of larger insulin spike.

for hair loss, sugar isn't the problem

high fructose rubbish and weird sweeteners , yes, they cause problems

my advice would be avoid all nuts,seeds,grains, legums, avocados and olives and oils of aforementioned.
also avoid oily fish too. they breakdown into pgd2

pgd2 was found to be high in balding men, and photographically shown to block hair.

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:for hair loss, sugar isn't the problem

high fructose rubbish and weird sweeteners , yes, they cause problems

my advice would be avoid all nuts,seeds,grains, legums, avocados and olives and oils of aforementioned.
also avoid oily fish too. they breakdown into pgd2

pgd2 was found to be high in balding men, and photographically shown to block hair.

I'm sorry, this is just not accurate.

Omega-3 oils inhibit PGD2.

CausticSymmetry wrote:

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:for hair loss, sugar isn't the problem

high fructose rubbish and weird sweeteners , yes, they cause problems

my advice would be avoid all nuts,seeds,grains, legums, avocados and olives and oils of aforementioned.
also avoid oily fish too. they breakdown into pgd2

pgd2 was found to be high in balding men, and photographically shown to block hair.

I'm sorry, this is just not accurate.

Omega-3 oils inhibit PGD2.

i don't know

http://www.dannyroddy.com/weblog/omega3fattyacidsmalepatternbaldness

all PUFA are bad I thought.

in fact it doesn't make it clear whether omega 3 does the same damage as rancid seed oils, it's ambiguous

Biffy wrote:CS you have said somewhere that HFCS raises 5ar/DHT (lowers SHBG) and elevate uric acid, was that meant if indulged in excess? After reading all this, probably sugar would raise 5ar even more because of larger insulin spike.

HFCS itself does not really effect 5AR or DHT. However, sugar can in the right circumstances (depends on insulin sensitivity).

Uric acid can be elevated by HFCS (probably more than anything), however that is for people who are hyperuricemic.

So if you get uric acid elevation easily, there is a problem with that metabolism.

People are radically different how they handle these things and what is taken/eaten with it affects it too.

It all comes down to insulin sensitivity. Regarding 5AR, there are 3 types. And only 5AR type 1 modulates insulin sensitivity. Note type 2 (which is the type that most 5AR inhibitors deal with). This occurs in peripheral tissues (not the liver).

Since younger men typically have insulin sensitivity issues by default (who also have low SHBG), what is eaten can have a more pronounced effect on inflammation.

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote:

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:for hair loss, sugar isn't the problem

high fructose rubbish and weird sweeteners , yes, they cause problems

my advice would be avoid all nuts,seeds,grains, legums, avocados and olives and oils of aforementioned.
also avoid oily fish too. they breakdown into pgd2

pgd2 was found to be high in balding men, and photographically shown to block hair.

I'm sorry, this is just not accurate.

Omega-3 oils inhibit PGD2.

i don't know

http://www.dannyroddy.com/weblog/omega3fattyacidsmalepatternbaldness

all PUFA are bad I thought.

in fact it doesn't make it clear whether omega 3 does the same damage as rancid seed oils, it's ambiguous

For a lot of people, including myself...Omega-3 fatty acids were one of the things that helped turn my inflammation around. Ray Peat's ideas are probably more theoretical. In my case (everything I have ever done or recommended was based on personal experience and in the literature).

For example, there are numerous studies showing the lowering effect of 5-AR with certain PUFA's (krill, fish, cod and GLA). In addition, there are numerous studies showing a lowering effect of PGD2 as well with these substances.

However, where I do agree with Peat/DR is that certain PUFA's, specifically omega-6's that are very heavy in linoleic acid will promote the elevation of PGD2. I can counterbalance this effect with other PUFA's as mentioned above.

Sorry for the confusion.

"Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance"

CS you mentioned insulin sensitivity in an earlier post, where does weight training/HIIT stand in comparison to supplements in reducing insulin sensitivity, or is this just too broad of a question? Another question would be how long is the window if it does regulate it?

NYJets wrote:"Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance"

CS you mentioned insulin sensitivity in an earlier post, where does weight training/HIIT stand in comparison to supplements in reducing insulin sensitivity, or is this just too broad of a question? Another question would be how long is the window if it does regulate it?

Really see no problem with HIIT. I've certainly done it...no negative effects on hair. It's a prolongevity thing (increases oxygen capacity).

Anything that improve oxygen capacity/utilization will improve insulin sensitivity.

CausticSymmetry wrote:
Regarding GMO, if you're dealing with HFCS made from corn, then there is a risk that it will contain some Glyphosate. 

Hi CS. You say this implying that HFCS is not always made from corn and does not always contain pesticides. How could that be true? I've never seen a non-gmo/organic HFCS, so wouldn't everything that contains HFCS have toxic chemicals to some degree?

fructose is simply not the problem in hair loss

yes avoid the garbage artificial weird stuff like hfcs

chubbfrank wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote:
Regarding GMO, if you're dealing with HFCS made from corn, then there is a risk that it will contain some Glyphosate. 

Hi CS. You say this implying that HFCS is not always made from corn and does not always contain pesticides. How could that be true? I've never seen a non-gmo/organic HFCS, so wouldn't everything that contains HFCS have toxic chemicals to some degree?

Yes, I agree it's not good. However, it's in so much stuff the body can handle a moderate amount okay. About 20 to 50 grams per day if one is active enough. I feel more guilty consuming grains that higher a higher chance of higher herbicide residue. Although it would be interesting to find out, exactly how much of this stuff is in these things.

Would like to get some opinions on this study: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071109171610.htm

Eating too much fructose and glucose can turn off the gene that regulates the levels of active testosterone and estrogen in the body, shows a new study in mice and human cell cultures that’s published this month in the Journal of Clinical Investigation. This discovery reinforces public health advice to eat complex carbohydrates and avoid sugar. Table sugar is made of glucose and fructose, while fructose is also commonly used in sweetened beverages, syrups, and low-fat food products. Estimates suggest North Americans consume 33 kg of refined sugar and an additional 20 kg of high fructose corn syrup per person per year.
Related Articles

Glucose and fructose are metabolized in the liver. When there’s too much sugar in the diet, the liver converts it to lipid. Using a mouse model and human liver cell cultures, the scientists discovered that the increased production of lipid shut down a gene called SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin), reducing the amount of SHBG protein in the blood. SHBG protein plays a key role in controlling the amount of testosterone and estrogen that’s available throughout the body. If there’s less SHBG protein, then more testosterone and estrogen will be released throughout the body, which is associated with an increased risk of acne, infertility, polycystic ovaries, and uterine cancer in overweight women. Abnormal amounts of SHBG also disturb the delicate balance between estrogen and testosterone, which is associated with the development of cardiovascular disease, especially in women.

“We discovered that low levels of SHBG in a person’s blood means the liver’s metabolic state is out of whack – because of inappropriate diet or something that’s inherently wrong with the liver – long before there are any disease symptoms,” says Dr. Geoffrey Hammond, the study’s principal investigator, scientific director of the Child & Family Research Institute in Vancouver, Canada, and professor in the Department of Obstetrics & Gynecology at the University of British Columbia.

“With this new understanding, we can now use SHBG as a biomarker for monitoring liver function well before symptoms arise,” says Dr Hammond, who is a Tier 1 Canada Research Chair in Reproductive Health. “We can also use it for determining the effectiveness of dietary interventions and drugs aimed at improving the liver’s metabolic state.”

Physicians have traditionally measured SHBG in the blood to determine a patient’s amount of free testosterone, which is key information for diagnosing hormonal disorders. In addition, SHBG levels are used to indicate an individual’s risk for developing type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease.

The discovery dispels the earlier assumption that too much insulin reduces SHBG, a view which arose from the observation that overweight, pre-diabetic individuals have high levels of insulin and low levels of SHBG. This new study proves that insulin is not to blame and that it’s actually the liver’s metabolism of sugar that counts.

After recently adding more sugar to my diet via honey and orange juice I have to say I feel much better. I was severely limiting sugar prior and probably not consuming enough carbs so I have been changing that.

The addition of sugar, more dairy in the form of raw milk/ice cream/cheese/sour cream and also fully cooking food such as broccoli/potatoes is mostly influenced by the Peat Diet (although I don't follow it as a whole but think he is on point in these areas).

Im consuming about 400g of sugars a day, honestly, I feel better than ever! Before peat, I didn't eat any sugar at all. My fasting blood sugar went from 106 to 90, last time I check. I drink a gallon of organic oj a day, im addicted to it, pretty much.

NYJets wrote:I notice more energy and less mood swings when drinking orange juice and an improved sense of well being(although slight-it is there and helpful).

Some decent health sites and even doctors (Mercola being one) think fructose is very bad. I feel there is more to the story can you share your views on this CS?

mercola ?

the "live on salmon and kale "  mercola ?

sell you the rancid oil, inflammatory whey protein and saw palmetto mercola ?

the eat less, burn fat, mercola ?

he talks crap, let's be honest. and dare I mention a certain something about him ? I had better not.
total windbag.