AHK Copper Peptide

Has anyone here used AHK Copper Peptide cream or solution with any success at all?
If yes how long before any results were seen?
Also is there any shedding known to be associated with this topical?
Thanks
MS

Anybody?

one user said people posted results on AHK alone at concentrations up to 15%

LawOfThelema wrote:one user said people posted results on AHK alone at concentrations up to 15%

do you know what kind of results?

I don't buy into people using concentrations of 15% of AHK-Cu for the following reasons:

#1 - Why would anyone use 15%??? No study suggests any more than 5%.

#2 - COST.

#3 - You can *just* get 1.5g of AHK-Cu into solution with RejuvePlex, which is a 2.5% concentration. I mean, if you're using a high-speed blender then I'm sure it'd be easier to get more, but it definitely seems to saturate it enough. I can't see why anyone would be able to get 15% into solution (and have it stay in solution).

Just doesn't seem both feasible or necessary, imo...

I have used it at 2.5% in rejuveplex with amazing results.

rejuveplex do not contain already Ahk-Cu?
We have to add it separately?

Steve,

It's either that, or RejuvePlex sells for $70 instead of $28.95. Copper peptides are very expensive, so would rather let people control whether they want to spend the extra money to put it in or not.

Hairtest-

Would you attribute your success to the copper peptides or just timespan of using rejuveplex? I used 1st gen rejuveplex and got nothing out of it but a coating on my scalp. I'm really on the fence about AHK, looking for any kind of testimonial at all.

copper peptide is basically a "proven" thing by this point. of course some will say it doesnt work or isnt effective just like they say rogaine isnt effective. but the liklihood is that it would be effective for you. of course there are always exceptions.

Smurfy wrote:Hairtest-

Would you attribute your success to the copper peptides or just timespan of using rejuveplex? I used 1st gen rejuveplex and got nothing out of it but a coating on my scalp. I'm really on the fence about AHK, looking for any kind of testimonial at all.

I will know more about ahk in a few months. At this point I would attribute to Rejevlex. I will continue tracking progress. I firmly believe you need at least three to six months before coming to any conclusion.

LoT- based on what I've come across, it still seems hit or miss, but who knows how these people use it, or for what time period. Perhaps it may work for someone like myself who pretty much was raised on a diet of hfcs, known to deplete copper. Maybe this is pure speculation though. I'm most interested in the dermal repair property of copper, as my temples used to be cool to the touch, but in recent years have become warm again, but with no progress at all.

Hairtest- you're right about that time frame. I just wasn't sure how long you've been using it.

Still debating a proper vehicle. Being on a limited budget, Rejuveplex is an expensive option.

Sorry for giving this thread CPR, but it seems to be the most recent AHK-Cu topic and I have some experience with the stuff. Regarding vehicle I've found Tricomin to be an ideal solution. It already contains some small amount of AHK-Cu and presumably ProCyte, the manufacturer, put some thought into optimizing the vehicle for effective delivery of this ingredient. Plus it's relatively inexpensive at $60 for 180mL, which would last 3 months at 2mL/day application. I've written a long thread at HLT summarizing the research and calculating optimal dosage quantities and mixing instructions, there's a lot of good info about the practical implementation of AHK-Cu into a regimen, written at a time when I was having to iron out all the little issues you don't think about until the package arrives and your girlfriend starts asking about the bag of blue powder in the refrigerator (so do have an answer for that ready as well). That thread is at: hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/61163-Optimal-AHK-Cu-Proportioning-Math-Inside.

I just finally started using the AHK last month after stabilizing from a several-month-long shed from temporarily breaking from minoxidil use in the spring, so I don't really have any results from the AHK to report other than it feels kinda refreshing going on.

I know AHK is one of the hard-to-find treatments, so if anyone's looking I actually have a little over 5 extra grams of the stuff I'd be willing to let go of since I won't get around to using it for at least six more months. I got 28g as part of a group buy on HLT with the guys who started raxuschem (finfighter and crotchetg), and have since split off 10g for a HLH member in the UK and another 5g for a guy in Israel, and still have 5g extra that I otherwise wouldn't need for quite some time because it only takes 1.3g/month in 60mL to make a 2.5% solution. I wound up with so much because I didn't do the math on it before buying, the group purchase was taking place so I just got 1oz to be safe, turns out that's enough for 2 years at 2.5%. If anyone wants this last ~5.2g (enough for 4 months at 1mL of 2.5% twice daily or 1mL of 5% once daily) for $150, just send a PM. That's much cheaper than any commercial source, I'll ship it to you for free, and I can even include two still-sealed bottles of zinc picolinate 50mg x 60 caps per bottle (enough for 4 months), as most of us at the time decided to supplement with this reasonable amount of zinc to keep the copper:zinc ratio in balance. Feel free to check me out on HLT, I've been posting monthly updates to my progress thread for a year and a half now. Hope the info above helps!

TheLastHairBender--

5g at the following URL is a better price ($140):

http://hairevo.com/shop/17-copper-tri-peptides

Oh man, I've never seen that site, I have only come across mpbtreatments and salderma selling AHK, at $200 for 5 grams. The site you referenced is $145 out the door, so if prices have really come down that much then I guess $120 shipped would do and I'll include the 4 months of zinc as well. It's really not a big deal on selling the extra I have, I primarily wanted to add the info I'd compiled and posted on HLT because I've been scouring the web for peoples' experiences with AHK, as that data seems to be pretty fragmented since the dissolution of the stopmpb site. I just started using the stuff a month ago and so far have been going it alone, I started searching to find any other experimenters. Information has been pretty tough to come across, although that may change now that there seem to be some retail options for procurement. Thanks for the info, good to know the marketplace is opening up in case my six month trial shows promise and I decide to continue with AHK.

Is AHK supposed to be a stimulant or an inhibitor? The only topics on it seem to be about delivery vehicles rather than what it actually does or wether it actually works!

In general it's supposed to work as an anti-inflammatory agent. It stimulates the activation of superoxide dismutase (SOD), one of the body's endogenous antioxidants, which scavenges for reactive oxygen species in the local tissue, reducing inflammation and promoting the general biological health of the tissue through the reduction of damage from oxidative stress. Clinical results seem to support the potential benefits for hair loss, but there seems to be insufficient usage within the community to have generated a consensus on its practical use. I have seen some positive anecdotes and some that claim no results. I think all we can say with any reliability at this point is that it doesn't generate as dramatic and consistent improvement as finasteride but at worst it still seems to be quite safe - there haven't been any serious sides reported that I'm aware of. Where within those two bounds do the expected results fall? I think the jury is still out on that as far as widespread consensus is concerned.

Nuuu_Dx wrote:Is AHK supposed to be a stimulant or an inhibitor? The only topics on it seem to be about delivery vehicles rather than what it actually does or wether it actually works!

it activity is dependent on dose. high enough concentration it will shift from a stimulant of growth to an inhibitor!

there haven't been any serious sides reported that I'm aware of.

i've seen itch and irritation reported

Is it applyed to the whole scalp and just rubbed in?

LawOfThelema wrote:it activity is dependent on dose. high enough concentration it will shift from a stimulant of growth to an inhibitor!

I've never heard this, do you have any study or something that shows this?

virtua_ wrote:I've never heard this, do you have any study or something that shows this?

In this study: dermoday.com/dosyalar/1277308389.pdf, they treated cells with solutions of varying concentrations, from 10^-12 M to 10^-7 M. They found positive results for concentrations from 10^-12 M to 10^-9 M, and negative results for concentrations of 10^-8 M and 10^-7 M, which were found to induce cellular apoptosis (cell death). The best results were obtained for a concentration of 10^-9 M.

The conversion of molar treatment quantities to actual application amounts is not straightforward though, unfortunately. The amount, in grams, that this relates to is found my multiplying the number of moles desired, 1.0 x 10^-9, for example, by the molar mass of AHK-Cu, which is 770.34 g/mol. So the researchers' best results were obtained by using 7.7034 x 10^-7 grams (.00000077034 grams) to treat a unit of 30 cultured dermal papilla cells. Projecting this result to your proposed treatment area requires making an assessment about the total number of dermal papilla cells you'll be treating. This is the part I have not yet been able to reliably estimate.

Nuuu_Dx wrote:Is it applyed to the whole scalp and just rubbed in?

I believe it is that simple. Tricomin comes in a spray applicator bottle with directions to apply several pumps broadly to the scalp. I've found about 8 pumps delivers 1mL of solution. I think the benefit of AHK is thought to improve the health of the scalp tissue in general, and therefore the benefits would accrue diffusely to the region at-large. This is in contrast to the very localized effects exhibited by spot treatments like minoxidil and miconazole nitrate, which need to be applied precisely to the area in which you want to regrow hair. For that reason I'm not sure AHK is the right solution for me at the moment; I've had really good regrowth all over and at this point I'm just trying to shore up a stubborn quarter-sized bald spot that remains on the top of the vertex. I've been applying AHK strictly to that ~5 square centimeter area and thus probably not enjoying the maximum potential benefits of this particular treatment. It might make more sense for me to try applying something like miconazole nitrate there to generate some new growth, but I already had the AHK in hand and thought I'd give that six months to see if it could generate any new fuzz. I've already been on a regimen of finasteride, minoxidil, and keto shampoo for 15 months (with topical spiro and courses of retin-a weaved in) which has shown great gains but has yet but unable to completely close the gap on the vertex. Now I'm cycling through some ancillary treatments like AHK in an effort to stimulate growth in this otherwise treatment-resistant region.

LastHairBender--

No problem, and thank YOU for sharing all the great information on AHK-Cu!!!

No problem, happy to share what I've found. I'm by no means an expert on the stuff but I've reviewed all the clinical and anecdotal evidence I could find, which still isn't much. To that end it seems like Dr. Proctor and Dr. Pickart are the reigning authorities on the use of AHK for hair loss. Current research into this angle of treatment seems to be focusing on alternative spin traps and spin labels like PBN, DMPO, TEMPO, and TEMPOL. These are reactive molecules with free-radical-scavenging properties similar to antioxidants like SOD. I have only known them to be used for free radical detection but apparently those properties are being investigated for use as a hair loss treatment. The standard desk reference is Berliner 1976 but it's not an easy read without a background in organic chemistry.

LastHairBender- Thanks, really. Great stuff.

I've been really looking for more info about experiences too! However, as a trial, adding Tricomin makes this too expensive, personally. Do you (or anyone) feel that just pure water + propylene glycol as a vehicle would penetrate enough? I'm trying to keep this cheap.