is Dht formed only when you ejaculate?

or is dht formed all the time regardless of whether you ejactulate or not?

or does anyone know whath appens to DHT when u ejaculate? go up go down stay the same, dips a day afterwards, spikes a day afterwards etc.

blueman99 wrote:or is dht formed all the time regardless of whether you ejactulate or not?

I think DHT is overemphasized in hair loss today. Prolactin rises post ejaculation. If thyroid is normalized, DHT is no longer a factor in the whole equation.

CausticSymmetry wrote:

blueman99 wrote:or is dht formed all the time regardless of whether you ejactulate or not?

I think DHT is overemphasized in hair loss today. Prolactin rises post ejaculation. If thyroid is normalized, DHT is no longer a factor in the whole equation.

C,S- Are you able to elaborate on how dht exacerbates the issues in the scalp due to a thyroid issue or vice versa.
Would you assume the average persons iodine levels for example, whether deficient or low, guarantees a sub optimal thyroid condition.
I think i've read prolactin bad for hair, what does it do, if you know?
In another thread I mentioned about me now starting to try topical iosol iodine in my topical mixture, since every cell supposedly needs iodine and is typically absorbed from other skin surfaces, wouldn't this be useful to correct cells deficit on scalp? Thanks...

Thyroid health goes well beyond iodine, as there are other essential co-factors and also environmental influences that maybe needed to be mitigated.

Due to the business of medicine, it is rare for anyone within orthodox medicine to understand the complexity involved in proper thyroid function and testing. Making matters worse, the pharmaceutical influence muddies the perception of DHT and what it represents.

DHT in of itself is relatively harmless when there is not a shortage of electrons. However, if you factor cortisol, prolactin, missing co-factors in energy/mitochondrial function, it sets the stage for inflammation (resulting from lack of oxygen), and in turn resulting in a chronic infection. Prolactin, when elevated is a typical indication of low thyroid function.

CS, such claims require evidence. What we know with near certainty is that DHT is harmless in scalps that dont have an overexpressed androgen receptor with the gene polymorphisms associated with patterned balding.

This is solid science, which is hard to contest which has numerous lines of support, from identical twins (had never been found in the anals of medicine that one balded and the other didnt despite differences in their diets, lifestyles, and other behaviors), to androgen insensitivity syndrome, to 5 alpha reductase deficiency, to the finding of the associated gene mutations, to the findings of androgen receptor distributions in balding scalps, to the efficacy which antiandrogens provide to balding individuals. How do you ignore all these things in conjunction?

The other factors are downstream. I would not doubt that the other hormones can modulate them. But DHT coupled with the overexpressed androgen receptor is the primum movens in androgenetic alopecia. It is not overstated. It is the initial cause. it only makes sense to address it.

Other forms of hair loss will of course be different. Some of what I see at this site is the conflation of the fact that there are different types of hair loss. There may be similarities in the underlying processes but there are differences as well.

LawOfThelema - The short answer is, the evidence can be found within the thousands of pages here on this site. Not too easy to condense, however it can summed up in the paragraph I wrote above. The effect of DHT can be blunted by oxidation reduction. Normalizing thyroid function corrects the metabolic/mitochondrial problem.

A change in gene expression is caused by environmental factors and a lack of minerals and/or vitamins that influence them.

What most call a gene problem, can also be looked at a nutrient deficient state or a blockade of nutrient uptake due to environmental influence. The long answer is, many pages, perhaps hundreds or even thousands on this site have covered the specifics.

There are so many examples, so for interest here is one. What if low iodine levels caused a very low SHBG level? Well, it's often the case and if SHBG were to be elevated, less DHT would available, as more testosterone would be bound to globulin. Also, what if I told you that animal form vitamin A affected androgen response?

CausticSymmetry wrote:LawOfThelema - The short answer is, the evidence can be found within the thousands of pages here on this site. Not too easy to condense, however it can summed up in the paragraph I wrote above. The effect of DHT can be blunted by oxidation reduction. Normalizing thyroid function corrects the metabolic/mitochondrial problem.

A change in gene expression is caused by environmental factors and a lack of minerals and/or vitamins that influence them.

What most call a gene problem, can also be looked at a nutrient deficient state or a blockade of nutrient uptake due to environmental influence. The long answer is, many pages, perhaps hundreds or even thousands on this site have covered the specifics.

There are so many examples, so for interest here is one. What if low iodine levels caused a very low SHBG level? Well, it's often the case and if SHBG were to be elevated, less DHT would available, as more testosterone would be bound to globulin. Also, what if I told you that animal form vitamin A affected androgen response?

I take it you dont have any experience to offer on pros/cons of topical iodine? Does shbg levels raise porportionately with iodine levels in the body to its correct amount? Ive long since felt like shbg is key, and Ive been wanting to find ways to raise it. I was looking at hormone tests members were posting on other forums, and I did see a trend of low T low shbg and high free T and high prolactin, and sometimes even low DHT but yet those figures still caused hair loss which made me believe it wasnt all about dht. Especially since supposedly testosterone is a dht antagonist, so if the ratio of T to present dht is too low then the dht becomes more detrimental.. I think more hormonal testing could be done in dept so that people know what numbers start to cause hair loss and what dont, and then we set a generalized set point of where we should keep these numbers and how, and would likely be cheaper than people getting hair transplant and taking harmful drugs for several years... I have reason to agree that normal levels of dht are only bad when other things are out of wack...

I think DHT is definately formed when men ejaculate. After I ejaculate I can feet a rush of blood to my head which I worry is carrying blood containing DHT to my scalp. I could be wrong. If anyone has any info to back this idea up, please post

Those target mpb genes are also involved in other processes, protective processes that would likely end in cancer or other "genetic problems" if they didn't exist. These genes have recently been shown to be those involved in Parkinson's, but if fifty percent t of males who get hairloss by the age of fifty don't all have Parkinson's, then that's a big clue that views on this site have become quite oversimplified and that we're missing the obvious.

What I'm really trying to say, is cs couldn't be more right, it just takes a lot of hard work to figure that out.

Just chiming in to say that I agree. The views on this site currently are coming across as oversimplified. Though I'm getting good results with manual stuff I KNOW that this is only working because I've spent a LONG time going through old threads on this forum and sorting out my own issues with heavy metals, thyroid issues, gut flora etc. Before all that was dealt with my scalp felt like crap and my hair looked like crap.

Naturally I agree with a < r and Duketronix.

Although I have provided a simple concept of how it works, it is not so simple to understand without reading a vast amount of material.

Generally speaking in medicine, the real deal is almost always more complex than a black and white answer. This is partially why the blunt hammered, pharmaceutical approach is so well respected and sought.

This is an interesting time in history, because the canary in the coal mine has revealed there is a serious problem as people are being poisoned right and left. There are a 100,000 plus chemicals are body's have to process. They are not genetically fated, but rather subjected to more than it can handle. Having a disease (genes or not), is not normal.

There is a strong connection between autism spectrum, ADHD, ADD, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other metabolic dysfunction problems and hair loss (MPB). My treatment protocol for Parkinson's is not that dissimilar from hair loss treatment.

Regarding topical iodine, there has been discussion about that in this forum. However, iodine is just one part of the equation and to really get optimal results, the whole body must be considered.

With respect to SHBG, that is typically a problem in younger males, as it does eventually rise during age. A low SHBG is a symptom of a metabolic problem. Low iodine is just one potential cause of it. There are other ways to improve it as well, and for that reason optimizing thyroid health corrects any metabolic problem. The conditions I mentioned above are all adversely affected by thyroid dysfunction.

If you took a young child who had symptoms of aggression, very little attention, they are almost certain to have a thyroid problem. When corrected, just weeks to months after treatments, they improve dramatically.

Mainstream will never get it, because there's no money in solving the problem. Pharmaceutical/medical industry (one in the same) teach a philosophy that resembles sick care, not preventative medicine.

A customer cured is a customer lost. A patient who remains a patient and continues to be sick and is reliant upon their addictive drugs is the best customer.

After several years of treatment on myself, I have completely eliminated all the indications of hair loss. It did not happen over night. The advantage of having faced with hair loss in my past is that I have optimized every body function and now can enjoy a very long life. So while most of my peers will begin to degenerate, as they clearly have already at my age, I will continue to be active well beyond the point that some others are either dead or withering away in a hospice on several prescriptions.

CausticSymmetry wrote:
There is a strong connection between autism spectrum, ADHD, ADD, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other metabolic dysfunction problems and hair loss (MPB). My treatment protocol for Parkinson's is not that dissimilar from hair loss treatment.

I agree. and agree with A < R quote earlier about Parkinson's and other info he's posted..

I made a similar quote the other day. "... MS, ALS, Parkinson's, Lyme, Alzheimer's, Autism, many cancers, etc.. Hair loss isn't much different than these."

Interestingly, they all have a varingly levels of mold toxicity problems as well and floridadetox.com has done good info here as well.

Heart disease, diabetes, etc. as well but it's a little different.

rdkml - Given the prevalence of Lyme infections in these conditions, I often wonder if there is a connection between Lyme and iron overload disorders.

CausticSymmetry wrote:
Mainstream will never get it, because there's no money in solving the problem. Pharmaceutical/medical industry (one in the same) teach a philosophy that resembles sick care, not preventative medicine.

I watched Michael Moores documentary 'Sicko' the other night. Was a scary look into how the American health service works, although UK's is national and free, the treatments are the same.

A section on it mentioned about health insurance employees and an ex employee mentioned, the employee that saved the company the most money i.e whichever employee denied the most ill people treatment, got a bonus... Its just so wrong.

CausticSymmetry wrote:rdkml - Given the prevalence of Lyme infections in these conditions, I often wonder if there is a connection between Lyme and iron overload disorders.

Yup, I think there is some connection but I don't understand it.

I noticed a couple years back on a Parkinson's forum, they were finding hemochromatosis (genetic iron overload) being common.

Most pathogens use iron to replicate but l form bacteria such as lyme/borrelia use manganese and magnesium instead. Meaning, reduce iron in the body your still left with l form bacteria replicating.

However, lyme/borrelia probably isn't so much of a problem by itself but what it does is lower the immune system allowing the other pathogens to take hold. The more of these pathogens one collects, and the longer it goes on for, the worse shape one is in.

Meaning high iron levels may set one up for the lyme co infections and thus one has tendency for ailmetns connected with lyme such as ALS, MS, Alzheimer's, etc. based on genetics, environmental factors, the mix of pathogens that dominates, etc..

Have low iron with large amount of lyme/borrelia, one has a tendency for other ailments such as say heart disease, diabetes and arthritis.



So far, all theory and too simplistic but I think it may be true.

Interestingly, I know one of my family members has a good case of lyme/borrelia but doesn't have much in symptoms... except a tendency more for heart disease, diabetes and arthritis. She drinks 2 cups of green tea a day which was probably enough to keep the iron in check which I'm thinking kept the other lyme co infections in check and thus lyme symptom free but a tendency for other ailments instead.

I hope this makes sense.


FWIW, Iodine or Iodide, I don't know which, is very good at fighting l form bacteria.

Also, what if I told you that animal form vitamin A affected androgen response?

I would ask for a reference

My intuition would say that it's singular effect on the pathogenesis of balding would have to minimal since 100s of millions of men are balding who consume animal vitamin A from the meat they eat daily.

LawOfThelema wrote:

Also, what if I told you that animal form vitamin A affected androgen response?

I would ask for a reference

My intuition would say that it's singular effect on the pathogenesis of balding would have to minimal since 100s of millions of men are balding who consume animal vitamin A from the meat they eat daily.

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.ca/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.html

Ctrl+f the word hair.

he looked like a norwood 0

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Dr.+Vilhjalmur+Stefansson&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1024&bih=612&tbm=isch&tbnid=fPdUELjHxddU9M:&imgrefurl=http://drbass.com/stefansson2.html&docid=HUqMoYUwXeNIOM&itg=1&imgurl=http://drbass.com/images/stef6.jpg&w=215&h=218&ei=HFr2T9H8Ccfi0gGssZC5Bg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=239&vpy=287&dur=237&hovh=174&hovw=172&tx=88&ty=94&sig=112969471976883642723&page=3&tbnh=129&tbnw=127&start=43&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:43,i:217

chances are Stefansson didnt have androgenetic alopecia, as such whatever happened to his hair and his reporting of it doesnt matter with regards to this discussion of androgenetic alopecia.

I agree its all just speculation, but the article does give a good idea of what unprocessed animal, fat soluble vitamins and minerals can do. I also wanted to give my two cents on the ejaculation topic. I just had intercourse. I had intercourse this morning too, and again the night before, I came each time. No inflammation. Two years ago I probably would have not had such an easy time recovering. There's more factors involved here than the two that are being discussed, those being ejaculation and dht. Its the same for every process in the known universe, where one plus one does t necessarily equal two, think about the body as the ecosystem, what we see happening is that small changes, say the heating of planets atmosphere by even a couple of degrees, and the dominoe effect happens that spirals into uncountable other processes.

LawOfThelema wrote:

Also, what if I told you that animal form vitamin A affected androgen response?

I would ask for a reference

My intuition would say that it's singular effect on the pathogenesis of balding would have to minimal since 100s of millions of men are balding who consume animal vitamin A from the meat they eat daily.

Sure, I will provide some circumstantial evidence, since the 'gold standard' or what I like to refer to as the pharma façade has been ingrained in most of us.

So here's a background on the vitamin A (animal form). First, most people who are health conscious are now trying to ramp up their vitamin D levels to what it would be if we spent more time outdoors. At the same time, supplement companies have eliminated animal form of vitamin A from most of the available multi-formulas, and instead putting in its place, pro-vitamin A or beta carotene, which does not perform all of the functions metabolically.

So for that reason, many either have a lot of vitamin D relative to vitamin A or perhaps not.

Perhaps the most intriguing reason, most here on this board have at least heard of Accutane, also known as
Isotretinoin, which is synthetic version, albeit a patented and poisonous version of vitamin A. This poison form is used to treat severe recalcitrant nodular acne.

Since the medical cartel prefers to use petrochemical poisons instead of ultra safe, natural vitamin A, very few people realize that the later is quite effective. Moreover, fears of so-called vitamin A toxicity are so overblown it is tantamount to insanity. I state this with no exaggeration considering the fact that Accutane can permanently damage people and the side-effects can be quite severe.

If I were to guess, these overblown fears on natural vitamin A have been created to foster a misperception in order to gain more market share for a toxic substance.

One scientist at Merck some decades ago suggested that low-dose Accutane could be effective for hair loss. While I think it's foolish to use Accutane for any reason (especially when real vitamin A could be used instead), the researcher was fired since Accutane was not a new drug and Merck was more interested in finding a new toxic substance to sell.

Getting back to natural vitamin A, there are retinoid receptors all over the body belong to a large superfamily of ligand-inducible transcription factors. Some of these are steroid hormones such as vitamin D, thyroid hormone receptors which share this pathway with vitamin A. At the very least, vitamin A reduces over active sebacious glands.

Vitamin D is an important co-factor with vitamin A, and separately they do little good. Vitamin D activates the antimicrobial peptides, and vitamin A is there to wash them away. It also repairs damaged gut lining, important for those who have been fooled into eating a grained based diet combined with antibiotics.

Like everything else, vitamin A is just one factor, but it is an important part of the equation.

This just in. I just read a > r's response as I was typing my own. I totally second what he says about ejaculation, my experience is exactly the same. Once there was inflammation, years later there is none.