injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

the only 'miracle' cure i have come across is the case with my uncle. aged 70. bald scalp. most probably the age factor.
he's also a cardiac patient. recently, he experienced a blood pressure fluctuation and couldn't hold himself up and fell down, receiving an injury to his head. the wound had to be stitched. few days later, TERMINAL HAIR GROWTH. limited to the wound area, that is.

please explain what could've happened. and extract any good ideas.

yes! wounding causes hairgrowth, even if the wounding is only very small. I wounded my scalp several times when I was brushing my scalp with my boarbrush and the result was: Terminalhair-growth. But also without wounding it is possible: Wounding causes enhanced bloodflow just like brushing.

Wounding supposedly stimulates angiogenesis (new blood vessels). These new blood vessels create blood highways to hairs that have not had one for a while

would it hold true on the frontal region (hairline)?
if such a simple thing can trigger hair growth on a completely bald scalp, why hasn't anyone launched a full scale experiment using similar methods? intense wounding of scalp can't be pain free, but there must be a work around.

Wounding - Cryotherapy, maybe even dry ice to the scalp, i can get my hands on some easily, thinking about trying it. Chemo patients maintain their hair by wrapping their head in ice, suppose this keeps the blood vessels alive. Wound the scalp and then apply vitamin E oil as that promotes angiogenesis.

elan164 wrote:Wounding - Cryotherapy, maybe even dry ice to the scalp, i can get my hands on some easily, thinking about trying it. Chemo patients maintain their hair by wrapping their head in ice, suppose this keeps the blood vessels alive. Wound the scalp and then apply vitamin E oil as that promotes angiogenesis.

you posted a link to a discussion at HLT. any update from the guy who had already started cyrotherapy?

[quote="AL123
you posted a link to a discussion at HLT. any update from the guy who had already started cyrotherapy?[/quote]

I tried contacting him on another site he posted on but never had a reply. Maybe it worked and he said fuck you to everyone else and disappeared because there were assholes telling him he was an idiot for trying it.

One think I noticed Is that on my upper arms, where I have tattoos there are a bunch of long thick terminal hairs sprouted up all over the place.

I am seriously considering buying a dermaroller, because of both the wounding function and the fact that it allows topical treatments to absorb much much better

SlowMoe wrote:I am seriously considering buying a dermaroller, because of both the wounding function and the fact that it allows topical treatments to absorb much much better

I was just going to bring up the point of derma rollers, I am using a .5mm EOD to increase topical absorption, I wonder what length would be needed for "wounding"

I have a scar on my back where a mole was removed, it has long thick hairs growing out of it. Also I have a few small moles along my arms, the hair around them is thin and sparse but the hair growing out the moles is thick, longer and more populated. Must be blood flow as well.

On another forum here was a guy using dermroller and I think some kind of lithium topical. He reported not only regrowth but much improved hair quality. He was also using finasteride but he said he didn't get the hair quality and new regrowth until dermroller.

sc871 wrote:

SlowMoe wrote:I am seriously considering buying a dermaroller, because of both the wounding function and the fact that it allows topical treatments to absorb much much better

I was just going to bring up the point of derma rollers, I am using a .5mm EOD to increase topical absorption, I wonder what length would be needed for "wounding"

They go up to 3mm (ouch!), so I would probably go with the 1mm which is somewhere around the middle. How does the .5mm feel? Does it ever cause bleeding?

For those of you interested in needling, I recommend reading the wounding instructions on owndoc.com, Sarah Vaughter is an expert on the subject. 1mm is what you want. I've just started and plan on sticking with it for at least a year. Everyone else who has tried the dermaroller does it for a couple of months (like every treatment) then dismisses it if they don't see regrowth. Dermarolling stimulates angiogenesis, collagen, thickness of skin, repairs fibrosis, but doesn't increase adipose tissue. My hypothesis that long term dermarolling in combination with topicals such as Rejuveplex, copper peptides, will help repair the scalp.

The protocol goes something like this:
Pre-treatment:
-Vitamin C serum to boost collagen (I've been using an MAP/lithium/dmso combo)
-Retinol

Post treatment:
-Avoid anti-inflammatory topicals for a couple days
-Vitamin A & D solution immediately after and for a few days (she sells a product on her site, I just mixed A & D with coconut oil), this should prevent microscarring
-I keep using the MAP/lithium/dmso (just not immediately after), along with topical EGFR inhibitor (curcumin/quercetin/tannic acid/silymarin), basically following wounding protocol http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/9

Roll once every 10-14 days

Plans for future:
Incorporate some sort of microcurrent regeneration technique into the mix if it ever goes anywhere.
Add gotu kola topically & internally

SlowMoe wrote:

sc871 wrote:

SlowMoe wrote:I am seriously considering buying a dermaroller, because of both the wounding function and the fact that it allows topical treatments to absorb much much better

I was just going to bring up the point of derma rollers, I am using a .5mm EOD to increase topical absorption, I wonder what length would be needed for "wounding"

They go up to 3mm (ouch!), so I would probably go with the 1mm which is somewhere around the middle. How does the .5mm feel? Does it ever cause bleeding?

It will likely cause bleeding if you go in the 1mm range. Some people get paranoid about this (will it scar, etc, will scar tissue block the hair). The answers from those who have done this until bleeding report no that it will not. They feel doing it till bleeding will bolster the result. I might actually look into this for my acne scarring near my temples as well.

You know this would explain why transplanted hairs don't die when transplanted into the tight galea region. The wounding caused by the transplant causes new blood vessel development in the area surrounding the wound.

I read an article on pubmed where minoxidil was used post transplant and the vast majority of transplant patients that followed this protocol did NOT go through te initial shed that transplant patients normally go through..

What I gather from that is that during a typical operation, the inserted follicles go into the resting stage until the blood vessel network is established, which apparently takes around 3-6 months.

So what I believe is that the minixidil speeds up angiogenesis, and ties the papilla into the network fast enough to where it stays in the growth stage and never sheds.

If this is true, then it would be safe to assume that after 3-6 months of wounding, te blood vessel network to the areas of wounding should begin to regenerate and start turning hairs from vellus to terminal; that is, of course, if my theory is correct.

SlowMoe wrote:You know this would explain why transplanted hairs don't die when transplanted into the tight galea region. The wounding caused by the transplant causes new blood vessel development in the area surrounding the wound.

the donor hair follicle comes with the brown adipose tissue (BAT) which assists in angiogenesis.
it's exactly why minoxidil/wounding/brushing/blood flow increase yield extremely limited results.

I have to disagree that enhancing blood flow yields extremely limited results; no, I haven't seen anyone go from a NW7 to a NW1, but there are plenty if reports of people halting thir hairless and getting new hair by stimulating circulation.
Do you think that perhaps poor circulation and lack of nutrients may cause this tissue to be depleted?

Do you have a link to the Yale study about BAT?

SlowMoe wrote:Do you have a link to the Yale study?

Do you think that perhaps poor circulation and lack of nutrients may cause this tissue to be depleted?

| lack of nutrients - poor circulation - diet - compromised blood flow |
let me prove a point by quoting an example of one of my relatives.
the guy is 27. has been under extreme stress for the last 10 years. poor routine. unhealthy diet. high intake of soft drinks (cola etc.). chain smoker. accelerated health deterioration. never oiled his hair. uses mousse/gels regularly. YET, he has the BEST hair in the world. grows like weed. unparalleled hair quality.
it's all about genetics.

as for balding men, the problem is not within our system (T, DHT), it's the SCALP SITE which is genetically predisposed. exact mechanism is still under research. there must be countless factors which are beyond our understanding.

what causes this tissue to be depleted? inflammation. why it happens, how it happens, i've got no definite answer.

SlowMoe wrote:I have to disagree that enhancing blood flow yields extremely limited results; no, I haven't seen anyone go from a NW7 to a NW1, but there are plenty if reports of people halting thir hairless and getting new hair by stimulating circulation.

just reports, but not a single documented evidence. slowmoe, it's very limited. works, but limited.
for instance, with minoxidil, majority people only report 'reduced' shedding even after 8-10 months of usage. some report increased shed even after 2 years.

SlowMoe wrote:I have to disagree that enhancing blood flow yields extremely limited results; no, I haven't seen anyone go from a NW7 to a NW1, but there are plenty if reports of people halting thir hairless and getting new hair by stimulating circulation.
Do you think that perhaps poor circulation and lack of nutrients may cause this tissue to be depleted?

Do you have a link to the Yale study about BAT?

http://www.regrowth.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=83976&start=60

the hypodermis (subcutaneous layer) lies beneath the dermis. loose connective tissue such as adipose tissue (fat) insulates the body, conserving heat. It also contains blood vessels, lymph vessels, and the bases of hair follicles and sweat glands.
http://owh.adam.com/pages/guide/reftext/html/skin_sys_fin.html

there is a strong (proven) connection between adipose tissue and angiogenesis.

On the contrary to wounding causing growth, I have a scar on the back of my head in which there is no growth. I fell back and cracked my head on some ice when i was probably about 5 years of age. It's kind of in the shape of a bird. People often ask me if I had them shave it like that on purpose. So I am surprised to here that wounding causing hair growth. Anyone care to hypothesize about this?

Joe,

are you saying that there is no hair growing around the scar, or from the scar.... Or that there is hair around the scar, but not growing from the scar....?
Because it doesnt seem like hair is supposed to grow out of scar tissue....

AL123,

Again, I have to disagree with minoxidil only reducing shedding... I have seen numerous studies on Pubmed where after a year on either minix or fun, the hair counts improved by around 25%.

It makes sense that, if the blood vessel network is rooted in te BAT layer, that scalp circulation would suffer if this layer were depleted.

I do think, however that counting poor circulation out is folly...

Im goingbto sound like a broken record here, but I have read so many theories on hair loss, I didn't know what to believe and had completely gave up as of 3 months ago. 

I had actually shaved my head and planned on leaving it that way, but one day I was feeling my scalp and I noticed how tight the skin was in my balding areas. it was so tight, it was shiny.

The next thing I noticed, was that the skin where my hair is completely full was much, much looser. it was ONLY tight where the skin was balding, and the tighter the skin, the more bald I was (vertex, sides if hairline). The tightness was in the EXACT shape as my baldness.


That's when it hit me that the Tight skin had to play a big role.
I mean look at any guy with a bald spot, the skin is stretched so tight that it is shiny. Every bald head that I see is really tight and shiny.

After doing a lot of research I came to the conclusion that the scalp muscles pulling the galea tight must be the root cause if our hair weakening. 

I think that the tight skin compromises the blood flow bringing nutrients to the scalp; this may, in turn also deplete the nutrients in the fat layer, leading to inflammation, DHT accumulation, or whatever causes the scalp to degenerate or become prone to the negative effects of sicknesses or diseases..It's just too much of a coincidence that the galea region is genetically predisposed to DHT AND it it genetically predisposed to weak fat tissue AND it is the part of the head that is FAR tighter than ANYWHERE else on the head. I can't help but believe that the tight scalp and subsequent decerase in bloodflow starts the chain reaction.

The only pattern that I can see in male pattern baldness is a tight scalp.....