Diet-hormone interactions: protein/carbohydrate ratio alters reciprocally the plasma levels of testosterone and cortisol and their respective binding globulins in man.

Abstract
The aim of this study was to determine if a change in protein/carbohydrate ratio influences plasma steroid hormone concentrations. There is little information about the effects of specific dietary components on steroid hormone metabolism in humans. Testosterone concentrations in seven normal men were consistently higher after ten days on a high carbohydrate diet (468 +/- 34 ng/dl, mean +/- S.E.) than during a high protein diet (371 +/- 23 ng/dl, p less than 0.05) and were accompanied by parallel changes in sex hormone binding globulin (32.5 +/- 2.8 nmol/l vs. 23.4 +/- 1.6 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.01). By contrast, cortisol concentrations were consistently lower during the high carbohydrate diet than during the high protein diet (7.74 +/- 0.71 micrograms/dl vs. 10.6 +/- 0.4 micrograms/dl respectively, p less than 0.05), and there were parallel changes in corticosteroid binding globulin concentrations (635 +/- 60 nmol/l vs. 754 +/- 31 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.05). The diets were equal in total calories and fat. These consistent and reciprocal changes suggest that the ratio of protein to carbohydrate in the human diet is an important regulatory factor for steroid hormone plasma levels and for liver-derived hormone binding proteins.

This has been discussed before here, and I'm not sure if this study was presented, but I am curious as to the role of SHBG and or free test, on hair and health.

I have total test in the 800's and free test at about 100. Don't have labs for SHBG though. Can anyone tell me anything about these numbers?

I'm on a high carb diet so I do not know if the increase in SHBG is leading to less free test and what the negatives of this can be. Is SHBG better high or low?

Also, for those of us that are adrenal fatigued, producing low cortisol, could a high carb diet be detrimental to our needs as it lowers cortisol?

LOL

cpio wrote:
LOL

No offense, but that is a stupid reply. What is so funny? If you can't give it more consideration than a "LOL" then don't bother replying.

General opinion on this forum that high carb diets are extremely bad for hair. (Mostly we are talking about "bread" type carbs").

I don't eat bread or other wheat products anymore. I am on a Ray Peat style of diet. Most of my carbs come from rice, potatoes, and a bit of sugar. When I had these labs done I was still eating bread every once in a while though, but not too much. Always had a strong appetite for carbs i.e. white rice, and despite a slow pulse rate, I have pretty good body composition.

I did not mean to offend you.

But IMHO that study is in error, and your adrenal fatigue could be related to your diet.

Is this the 1980's study or is this a current study?

I've posted this study a couple times. It's very obvious to the naked eye that humans that raise their children on a poor-man's diet are going to get more masculine children. And humans who raise their children on a rich-man's diet (high protein, high fat) are going to get more feminine children. Take a look at what very aggressive men eat, and the bulk of their diet is going to be usually grains and sugar, the cheap stuff. Drinking soda every few hours, eating rice and beans for dinner, etc.

We could argue all day about why it is true that high-protein/high -fat diets cause such a drop in testosterone, it could be that fat allows more storing of estrogen, or it could be all the hormones that are in animal products now. Or it could simply be that a high-fat/high-protein diet is just not good for you endocronologically, which is what I lean to! But it doesn't matter what the reason is, because for sure high-protein diets are not good for your endocrine balance.

cpio wrote:I did not mean to offend you.

But IMHO that study is in error, and your adrenal fatigue could be related to your diet.

No problem dude. I just needed some clarification. Didn't realize the date of the study either.

tonyj wrote:Is this the 1980's study or is this a current study?

1980's. Didn't realize the date on there--pretty old.

Espio wrote:I've posted this study a couple times. It's very obvious to the naked eye that humans that raise their children on a poor-man's diet are going to get more masculine children. And humans who raise their children on a rich-man's diet (high protein, high fat) are going to get more feminine children. Take a look at what very aggressive men eat, and the bulk of their diet is going to be usually grains and sugar, the cheap stuff. Drinking soda every few hours, eating rice and beans for dinner, etc.

We could argue all day about why it is true that high-protein/high -fat diets cause such a drop in testosterone, it could be that fat allows more storing of estrogen, or it could be all the hormones that are in animal products now. Or it could simply be that a high-fat/high-protein diet is just not good for you endocronologically, which is what I lean to! But it doesn't matter what the reason is, because for sure high-protein diets are not good for your endocrine balance.

That is interesting. I have seen some feminine and obese men/people on a "poor man's diet" too, though that could be due to other issues and/or over consumtion of processed foods. I do feel best when I eat high carbs, always have and despite my attempts to eat otherwise for hair loss prevention or better performance in the gym/physique, I can't help but come back to it.

I find the safe starches (rice, potatoes) necessary to keep stress (cortisol) down, which in turn keeps testosterone up and inflammation and infection down. Less inflammation would keep SHBG down.

Espio wrote:I've posted this study a couple times. It's very obvious to the naked eye that humans that raise their children on a poor-man's diet are going to get more masculine children. And humans who raise their children on a rich-man's diet (high protein, high fat) are going to get more feminine children. Take a look at what very aggressive men eat, and the bulk of their diet is going to be usually grains and sugar, the cheap stuff. Drinking soda every few hours, eating rice and beans for dinner, etc.

We could argue all day about why it is true that high-protein/high -fat diets cause such a drop in testosterone, it could be that fat allows more storing of estrogen, or it could be all the hormones that are in animal products now. Or it could simply be that a high-fat/high-protein diet is just not good for you endocronologically, which is what I lean to! But it doesn't matter what the reason is, because for sure high-protein diets are not good for your endocrine balance.

That is interesting. I have seen some feminine and obese men/people on a "poor man's diet" too, though that could be due to other issues and/or over consumtion of processed foods. I do feel best when I eat high carbs, always have and despite my attempts to eat otherwise for hair loss prevention or better performance in the gym/physique, I can't help but come back to it.

Espio wrote:I've posted this study a couple times. It's very obvious to the naked eye that humans that raise their children on a poor-man's diet are going to get more masculine children. And humans who raise their children on a rich-man's diet (high protein, high fat) are going to get more feminine children. Take a look at what very aggressive men eat, and the bulk of their diet is going to be usually grains and sugar, the cheap stuff. Drinking soda every few hours, eating rice and beans for dinner, etc.

We could argue all day about why it is true that high-protein/high -fat diets cause such a drop in testosterone, it could be that fat allows more storing of estrogen, or it could be all the hormones that are in animal products now. Or it could simply be that a high-fat/high-protein diet is just not good for you endocronologically, which is what I lean to! But it doesn't matter what the reason is, because for sure high-protein diets are not good for your endocrine balance.

On the one hand you need a certain amount of protein for the liver to function optimally to detoxify estrogen.

On the other hand the evidence is clear that fiber is very effective at helping the body excrete estrogen.

CausticSymmetry wrote:I find the safe starches (rice, potatoes) necessary to keep stress (cortisol) down, which in turn keeps testosterone up and inflammation and infection down. Less inflammation would keep SHBG down.

Love rice and potatoes. CS, I always fall back to what you said about one size not fitting all. Avoiding hydrogenated oils, wheat, and processed foods. I thought that I was an inbetween metabolic type, but paying close attention, and eating less and less meat protein, I feel good if not better than previous months when I ate meat two to three times a day.

Today I received some iron labs, which give me more incentive to cut down meat/iron rich foods. My serum iron was at 190 in a range of 40-155 and my %sat was at 70 out of 15-55. My ferritin is within range and my UIBC was low. Not sure what I can take from this, but I probably need to donate blood soon. This excess iron has to be wreaking havok on my organs, and glands. Might be the main source of my inflammation. Perhaps this is my problem and not AF, but saliva cortisol labs are coming soon to asses further.

This actually makes sense. My hairloss started after a low carb diet and never stopped, it was not temporary. I later learned that low carb diets increase cortisol levels in a massive way. My hair was the thickest hair till age 27 and never had issues with hair loss. I know DHT is not the cause of hair loss , it is a component of it. Cortisol has something to do with it and I am hopeful Astressin-B will help a great number people with MPB.

Masterfree - given what you said I suggest you read the ph miracle. A number of posters when they go low carb (high protein) have loss. You can offset this with looking at your ph - chances are you acidic and therefore less tolerant to a low carb diet, as the protein requires greater digestive abiilities - hence you pull many minerals out of your system (if there are enough you're fine, but likley there are not) and so your body says: "hair? f&ck that..."

If you are acidic chances are you need to chelate - and boost minerals state, with immuneboost77 from Morningstar - http://www.iherb.com/Morningstar-Minerals-Immune-Boost-77-Mineral-Supplement-120-Capsules/16754?at=hil335

Other than that meditate, work out and have sex a lot. The first one was serious!

M

CS, generally speaking do you think brown rice or white rice is better? And sweet potatoes or ordinary potatoes?

For what it's worth, rice is one of the few foods that are safe to eat for me and what I would recommend for others if they need carbs. I rotate between brown rice, white rice or preferably forbidden rice depending on what I feel is best. I will also soak the rice sometimes depending on my instinct to help remove the phytic acid.

But with all carbs they need to be coated with fat so make sure you eat a fatty meal with them! Otherwise if you have a high carb meal with little fat then that's not beneficial. Course everyone has their own opinion here but that is mine and based on my research.

Regarding potatoes, while I do eat potatoes I do think most people would heavily reduce their consumption of them when they realize just how heavily sprayed they are in pesticides! It's said even the farmers that grow them won't eat them! Organic I haven't had much luck with either as they are usually filled with mold.

Mastery wrote:Masterfree - given what you said I suggest you read the ph miracle. A number of posters when they go low carb (high protein) have loss. You can offset this with looking at your ph - chances are you acidic and therefore less tolerant to a low carb diet, as the protein requires greater digestive abiilities - hence you pull many minerals out of your system (if there are enough you're fine, but likley there are not) and so your body says: "hair? f&ck that..."

If you are acidic chances are you need to chelate - and boost minerals state, with immuneboost77 from Morningstar - http://www.iherb.com/Morningstar-Minerals-Immune-Boost-77-Mineral-Supplement-120-Capsules/16754?at=hil335

Other than that meditate, work out and have sex a lot. The first one was serious!

M

I know it is not just me, one person PM ed me and told me about her exact experience and she also knew someone else who had the same thing. Granted I am a male and they are female but still it shows that low carb diets mess up a lot of people's systems regardless of their gender. The supposedly temporary diet related hair loss is not temporary for them. Cortisol is an obvious in this equation, I am sure there are other components. The issue is I am sure my cortisol levels have been Ok since I quit that darn diet but there was some permanent damage to my HPA. The key here is how to reboot the HPA so it can do its job of regulating hormone levels like it used to.

Asterssin B supposedly works on this cortisol mechanism and help reboot the HPA and by the looks of it it helps with overall health per the researchers statements on their blog. Therefore it is more sensible than the "It is all because of DHT" mania. At least these researchers acknowledge that hairloss is a component of a larger health issue.

I favor the less nutritive rice also, although I will eat both. Certainly brown rice is more nutritious, however it's not ideal and nutrition should come from other sources, such as grass-fed meat (as my personal favorite and most complete in nutrition).

Other measures in controlling stress I find useful are Ashwagandha, Quercetin and maintaining a good level of Omega-3 fatty acids, such as Krill Oil which provide natural anti-anxiety attributes.

bh2o wrote:

Abstract
The aim of this study was to determine if a change in protein/carbohydrate ratio influences plasma steroid hormone concentrations. There is little information about the effects of specific dietary components on steroid hormone metabolism in humans. Testosterone concentrations in seven normal men were consistently higher after ten days on a high carbohydrate diet (468 /- 34 ng/dl, mean /- S.E.) than during a high protein diet (371 /- 23 ng/dl, p less than 0.05) and were accompanied by parallel changes in sex hormone binding globulin (32.5 /- 2.8 nmol/l vs. 23.4 /- 1.6 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.01). By contrast, cortisol concentrations were consistently lower during the high carbohydrate diet than during the high protein diet (7.74 /- 0.71 micrograms/dl vs. 10.6 /- 0.4 micrograms/dl respectively, p less than 0.05), and there were parallel changes in corticosteroid binding globulin concentrations (635 /- 60 nmol/l vs. 754 /- 31 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.05). The diets were equal in total calories and fat. These consistent and reciprocal changes suggest that the ratio of protein to carbohydrate in the human diet is an important regulatory factor for steroid hormone plasma levels and for liver-derived hormone binding proteins.

This has been discussed before here, and I'm not sure if this study was presented, but I am curious as to the role of SHBG and or free test, on hair and health.

I have total test in the 800's and free test at about 100. Don't have labs for SHBG though. Can anyone tell me anything about these numbers?

I'm on a high carb diet so I do not know if the increase in SHBG is leading to less free test and what the negatives of this can be. Is SHBG better high or low?

Also, for those of us that are adrenal fatigued, producing low cortisol, could a high carb diet be detrimental to our needs as it lowers cortisol?

Here's the real answer to your first question.

The role of SHBG/free testosterone on hair and health is huge. Your study demonstrates the basics: A high carbohydrate diet increases SHBG. A high protien diet decreases SHBG, in part, by increasing IGF-1, which is suppressive to SHBG. As other studies will prove to you, in a healthy adult male, as SHBG increases, so does total testosterone in order to keep free testosterone at the same level prior to the increase. Free testosterone levels do not change unless SHBG becomes problematically high, which is extremely rare unless you are obese or diseased. As SHBG lowers, so does total testosterone to ensure that there is not an excess of unbound, free testosterone. Along with this, other problems ensue. See the last paragraph of this post for details.

SHBG determines the metabolic rate of testosterone and the ratio of free to bound androgens in the blood. The hypothalamus only responds to free testosterone. Therefore, total testosterone will either increase to decrease based on the level of SHBG alone.

With respect to free testosterone, your dietary intake most strongly influences mean insulin levels and IGF-1, both of which indirectly either modulate or (in the case of insulin) outright impair the ability of the liver to synthesize SHBG.

The reason to optimize SHBG is that increasing SHBG will not lower your free testosterone levels unless it is "too high." Your total testosterone will increase as SHBG increases so as to keep free testosterone normalized. However, the additional SHBG will now also be available to bind DHT, estrogen and thyroid hormone.

In addition, the receptor for SHBG, SHBG-R, which exists in heart, muscle and brain tissue, has been demonstrated to modulate the response of the androgen receptor in target tissues. It would appear that the body directly uses the level of SHBG to modulate its response to androgens as well as glucose uptake. (SHBG levels have been causally linked to IR in a few studies.)

The problem with lower SHBG levels is that, in addition to testosterone being metabolized too quickly and turning to DHT, the DHT competes for SHBG binding with both testosterone and estrogen -- and DHT always wins with 300% more binding affinity. So, the little SHBG that you have will be saturated with DHT, thereby increasing testosterone metabolism even futher. It's a vicious cycle. Studies show that men with the lowest SHBG tend to experience MBP before age 30.

Get it tested. It's very important. Just like cortisol, too much is bad and too little is bad. People really have no business guessing at the cause of thier hair loss until they ensure that they don't have this fundamental requirement to hormone balance in place.

If it's low, there is a HIGH chance you have undiagnosed hypothyroidism or insulin resistance, or thyroid resistance ("wilson's temperature syndrome"). It can also be impaired by excess growth hormone, chronic inflammation, or elevated DHEA-S. All of these diseases are difficult to pinpoint, but low SHBG/MPB is hallmark of all of them and should be a neon red flag to anyone who wants to keep hair on their head.

if it is low how do you increase it? naturally that is.

ViolatedBird wrote:

bh2o wrote:

Abstract
The aim of this study was to determine if a change in protein/carbohydrate ratio influences plasma steroid hormone concentrations. There is little information about the effects of specific dietary components on steroid hormone metabolism in humans. Testosterone concentrations in seven normal men were consistently higher after ten days on a high carbohydrate diet (468 /- 34 ng/dl, mean /- S.E.) than during a high protein diet (371 /- 23 ng/dl, p less than 0.05) and were accompanied by parallel changes in sex hormone binding globulin (32.5 /- 2.8 nmol/l vs. 23.4 /- 1.6 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.01). By contrast, cortisol concentrations were consistently lower during the high carbohydrate diet than during the high protein diet (7.74 /- 0.71 micrograms/dl vs. 10.6 /- 0.4 micrograms/dl respectively, p less than 0.05), and there were parallel changes in corticosteroid binding globulin concentrations (635 /- 60 nmol/l vs. 754 /- 31 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.05). The diets were equal in total calories and fat. These consistent and reciprocal changes suggest that the ratio of protein to carbohydrate in the human diet is an important regulatory factor for steroid hormone plasma levels and for liver-derived hormone binding proteins.

This has been discussed before here, and I'm not sure if this study was presented, but I am curious as to the role of SHBG and or free test, on hair and health.

I have total test in the 800's and free test at about 100. Don't have labs for SHBG though. Can anyone tell me anything about these numbers?

I'm on a high carb diet so I do not know if the increase in SHBG is leading to less free test and what the negatives of this can be. Is SHBG better high or low?

Also, for those of us that are adrenal fatigued, producing low cortisol, could a high carb diet be detrimental to our needs as it lowers cortisol?

Here's the real answer to your first question.

The role of SHBG/free testosterone on hair and health is huge. Your study demonstrates the basics: A high carbohydrate diet increases SHBG. A high protien diet decreases SHBG, in part, by increasing IGF-1, which is suppressive to SHBG. As other studies will prove to you, in a healthy adult male, as SHBG increases, so does total testosterone in order to keep free testosterone at the same level prior to the increase. Free testosterone levels do not change unless SHBG becomes problematically high, which is extremely rare unless you are obese or diseased. As SHBG lowers, so does total testosterone to ensure that there is not an excess of unbound, free testosterone. Along with this, other problems ensue. See the last paragraph of this post for details.

SHBG determines the metabolic rate of testosterone and the ratio of free to bound androgens in the blood. The hypothalamus only responds to free testosterone. Therefore, total testosterone will either increase to decrease based on the level of SHBG alone.

With respect to free testosterone, your dietary intake most strongly influences mean insulin levels and IGF-1, both of which indirectly either modulate or (in the case of insulin) outright impair the ability of the liver to synthesize SHBG.

The reason to optimize SHBG is that increasing SHBG will not lower your free testosterone levels unless it is "too high." Your total testosterone will increase as SHBG increases so as to keep free testosterone normalized. However, the additional SHBG will now also be available to bind DHT, estrogen and thyroid hormone.

In addition, the receptor for SHBG, SHBG-R, which exists in heart, muscle and brain tissue, has been demonstrated to modulate the response of the androgen receptor in target tissues. It would appear that the body directly uses the level of SHBG to modulate its response to androgens as well as glucose uptake. (SHBG levels have been causally linked to IR in a few studies.)

The problem with lower SHBG levels is that, in addition to testosterone being metabolized too quickly and turning to DHT, the DHT competes for SHBG binding with both testosterone and estrogen -- and DHT always wins with 300% more binding affinity. So, the little SHBG that you have will be saturated with DHT, thereby increasing testosterone metabolism even futher. It's a vicious cycle. Studies show that men with the lowest SHBG tend to experience MBP before age 30.

Get it tested. It's very important. Just like cortisol, too much is bad and too little is bad. People really have no business guessing at the cause of thier hair loss until they ensure that they don't have this fundamental requirement to hormone balance in place.

If it's low, there is a HIGH chance you have undiagnosed hypothyroidism or insulin resistance, or thyroid resistance ("wilson's temperature syndrome"). It can also be impaired by excess growth hormone, chronic inflammation, or elevated DHEA-S. All of these diseases are difficult to pinpoint, but low SHBG/MPB is hallmark of all of them and should be a neon red flag to anyone who wants to keep hair on their head.

Nice write-up dude. That helps understand these numbers more. Despite good total-T I am hardly every in a feel it's effects like I used too when younger and with good hair, what many in the BB world would call "alpha." This could be due to low SHBG and off test metabolism as you mention. I will have to test to see further.

rdkml wrote:For what it's worth, rice is one of the few foods that are safe to eat for me and what I would recommend for others if they need carbs. I rotate between brown rice, white rice or preferably forbidden rice depending on what I feel is best. I will also soak the rice sometimes depending on my instinct to help remove the phytic acid.

But with all carbs they need to be coated with fat so make sure you eat a fatty meal with them! Otherwise if you have a high carb meal with little fat then that's not beneficial. Course everyone has their own opinion here but that is mine and based on my research.

Regarding potatoes, while I do eat potatoes I do think most people would heavily reduce their consumption of them when they realize just how heavily sprayed they are in pesticides! It's said even the farmers that grow them won't eat them! Organic I haven't had much luck with either as they are usually filled with mold.

CausticSymmetry wrote:I favor the less nutritive rice also, although I will eat both. Certainly brown rice is more nutritious, however it's not ideal and nutrition should come from other sources, such as grass-fed meat (as my personal favorite and most complete in nutrition).

Other measures in controlling stress I find useful are Ashwagandha, Quercetin and maintaining a good level of Omega-3 fatty acids, such as Krill Oil which provide natural anti-anxiety attributes.

About white rice, when it is processed most nutrients are removed--I assume. Is it best to wash it in order to remove those added nutrients which might not be necessary? For example it has iron. Dont know if that is added, but if it is, the white rice may be akin to fortified breakfast cereal in terms of it's "fortification". White rice is a great option for us though, just wondering about iron specifically.