Danny Roddy Success - but at a cost

Hi guys

long time reader, first time poster.

I have been following Danny Roddy's advice for about 2 weeks now along with Tom Hagerty's SE and DT (both since october 2014) and am seeing great results: Complete stabilisation of hair loss, minimal sebum, no dandruff, no scalp inflammation, no scalp tightness (other than a bit around the crown) and many vellus hairs appearing along hairline. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

These results only fully came through when I introduced Danny's diet/lifestyle recommendations however something strange has started happening to my skull. A large ridge (of bone) is forming along the sagittal suture of my head and this has only happened since I implicated the dietary changes. It's analogous to continental collision. I have a feeling it's the high dairy consumption stimulating bone growth but any speculation is welcomed.

So my questions are; if a skull can grow at this rate can it also shrink at this rate? And could removing the aggravator allow my body to amend this growth?

I have a theory on mpb that I will post in full in the next month or so for you guys to review also.

Thanks

-droy

I think self experimenation is the only way to go

I doubt it is the dairy magically growing your head bones

were you eating dairy before ?

I believe That's a very very valid question... Especially since we all know dairy, even raw, is loaded with insulin growth factors... That are naturally meant to stimulate the growth of a baby calf... I'm definitely in the camp of bone expansion being cause of baldness and I am also a humongous fan of Danny Roddy, and I also love dairy... But every time I'm drinking milk I am always wondering about the growth stimulation.

Do you take k2?

droy wrote:Hi guys

long time reader, first time poster.

I have been following Danny Roddy's advice for about 2 weeks now along with Tom Hagerty's SE and DT (both since october 2014) and am seeing great results: Complete stabilisation of hair loss, minimal sebum, no dandruff, no scalp inflammation, no scalp tightness (other than a bit around the crown) and many vellus hairs appearing along hairline. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

These results only fully came through when I introduced Danny's diet/lifestyle recommendations however something strange has started happening to my skull. A large ridge (of bone) is forming along the sagittal suture of my head and this has only happened since I implicated the dietary changes. It's analogous to continental collision. I have a feeling it's the high dairy consumption stimulating bone growth but any speculation is welcomed.

So my questions are; if a skull can grow at this rate can it also shrink at this rate? And could removing the aggravator allow my body to amend this growth?

I have a theory on mpb that I will post in full in the next month or so for you guys to review also.

Thanks

-droy

That's why I don't recommend Dairy, Ray Peats doesn't really look at the negative effects of dairy, his bases is from some old studies.

If its not RAW milk wouldn't touch it, RAW milk should only be consumed and if you feel safer boiling that's ok too, but most dairy of the shelfs is pumped with chemicals. Still I wouldn't touch RAW milk unless your body is healthy.

Plus MILK/Dairy is given to babies why because its for their growth, if you consume milk as an adult there are so many negative effects from it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeating/10868428/Give-up-dairy-products-to-beat-cancer.html

"“We have all been brought up with the idea that milk is good for you,” says Prof Plant. “But there is evidence now that the growth factors and hormones it contains are not just risky for breast cancer, but also other hormone-related cancers, of the prostate, testicles and ovary.” "

Get rid of that crap buddy.

And please people if Danny or Ray Peat say its right it isn't always right you need to make your own decisions based on your own studies.

Tell us when those vellus go terminal.

lmao, here we go again... So, you been following Ray peats diet for 2 weeks and getting regrowth? Trust me, you're not getting any regrowth in 2 weeks, your eyes is fooling you.. Im not saying ray peats diet doesn't work because im on it, but it will take way longer than that to be able to see regrowth. Im about 5 months into ray peat, I feel much better than I before and no shed but no regrowth.

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:I think self experimenation is the only way to go

I doubt it is the dairy magically growing your head bones

were you eating dairy before ?

I'm not sure what else it would be, unless it's the fruit but that's even more unlikely.

No, I was a vegan for a year so hadn't had any dairy. I'll cut it out and see what happens.

herbalman wrote:I believe That's a very very valid question... Especially since we all know dairy, even raw, is loaded with insulin growth factors... That are naturally meant to stimulate the growth of a baby calf... I'm definitely in the camp of bone expansion being cause of baldness and I am also a humongous fan of Danny Roddy, and I also love dairy... But every time I'm drinking milk I am always wondering about the growth stimulation.

Yeah I'm also in this position. Interestingly the majority of Maasai men are bald/balding, and they aren't subjected to many of western society's fabricated lifestyle habits that could also lead to balding, so maybe we can look at them as an isolated incidence of pattern baldness.  

Energy wrote:Do you take k2?

I don't take any supplements so no k2.

bobthebuilder wrote:

That's why I don't recommend Dairy, Ray Peats doesn't really look at the negative effects of dairy, his bases is from some old studies.

If its not RAW milk wouldn't touch it, RAW milk should only be consumed and if you feel safer boiling that's ok too, but most dairy of the shelfs is pumped with chemicals. Still I wouldn't touch RAW milk unless your body is healthy.

Plus MILK/Dairy is given to babies why because its for their growth, if you consume milk as an adult there are so many negative effects from it.

-[For link see original post]

"“We have all been brought up with the idea that milk is good for you,” says Prof Plant. “But there is evidence now that the growth factors and hormones it contains are not just risky for breast cancer, but also other hormone-related cancers, of the prostate, testicles and ovary.” "

Get rid of that crap buddy.

And please people if Danny or Ray Peat say its right it isn't always right you need to make your own decisions based on your own studies.

Yeah I agree, self experimentation is the only way to go.

I'm drinking organic skimmed milk, but it is pasteurised, and so is the cheese I'm eating. Maybe it's that. I'll cut it out all together, thanks.

Older studies get a lot of stick, but often they are more objective than today's studies as their results aren't bent out of shape by corporate interest - but I agree that Peat takes quite a hard line approach when it comes to his theories.

Growdamnit wrote:Tell us when those vellus go terminal.

ok

bogv51 wrote:lmao, here we go again... So, you been following Ray peats diet for 2 weeks and getting regrowth? Trust me, you're not getting any regrowth in 2 weeks, your eyes is fooling you.. Im not saying ray peats diet doesn't work because im on it, but it will take way longer than that to be able to see regrowth. Im about 5 months into ray peat, I feel much better than I before and no shed but no regrowth.

Not to get too defensive but you may as well add something productive if you're going to reply rather than speculating without evidence. I also feel great on this - constant lift in mood/energy, and am needing an hour less sleep a night.


I think it's important to mention that the HLAF ideas on their own don't work for me. If I don't do SE and DT along with it my scalp starts to tighten up and the itch returns.

Nice PICTURES.

NW0 wrote:Nice PICTURES.

Have some faith in community and human integrity. I can't because I've only just signed up to the forum.

"I think it's important to mention that the HLAF ideas on their own don't work for me. If I don't do SE and DT along with it my scalp starts to tighten up and the itch returns."


I'm the same, if I keep the scalp massages up and a clean diet I have no itchy scalp, for me its mainly the scalp massages.

Welcome to board.

are you on any type of hormone replacement?

droy wrote:

NW0 wrote:Nice PICTURES.

Have some faith in community and human integrity. I can't because I've only just signed up to the forum.

No thanks, i'll have faith in evidence.

Sorry but I'm tired of people posting up new thread saying they are seeing results after 2-3 weeks of doing their new regimen. You don't see me posting new thread every time I think I see regrowth, I know better than that.

bogv51 wrote:Sorry but I'm tired of people posting up new thread saying they are seeing results after 2-3 weeks of doing their new regimen. You don't see me posting new thread every time I think I see regrowth, I know better than that.

for real.. seriously op, what the fuck are you talking about? regrowth in 3 weeks? the hair lifecycle doesn't even go that short. if you posted some pictures with terminal dark hairs.. then we can talk.

Glad i'm not the only one noticing. I think dairy plays a role but I don't think it's much more potent than your average meat. Methionine which is in meat and dairy is the building block to igf-1, which promotes bone growth. Mpb are found to have low shbg (which means high free androgens), high igf-1 and low igfbp-3 (igfbp-1-2-3 bind igf-1 so that it isn't free). The whole diet is very promoting of androgens, that means more dht, more test, etc, and if women have higher growth hormone (they do) but are shorter and don't experience baldness, it is because they don't have the high androgens to go with the high growth hormone, to result in higher bone growth. Peat basically tells you to eat no fiber, high carbs and cholesterol, the combination promotes higher androgens while a diet rich in fiber (probably the diet you had while vegan) promotes shbg, which mean less androgens. There's also the orange juice, which has niacin, which by lowering free fatty acids, promotes growth hormone secretion. The good results you got are probably mainly by getting rid of calcification (dt + good calcium intake), as I'm having the same experience as you. I also think that high androgens ironically gives you thicker/better looking hair (igf-1 actually work on hair follicles that way).

From studies Ive found :
hyperinsulinemia stimulates igf-1 and supresses igfbp-1 production
igfbp3 negatively associated with saturated fat
igf1 positively associated with red meat, fat, oils, negatively associated with carbs
low gi meal increases igbp-3, high gi meal decreases it
mtor upregulates igfbp-3 (eIF4F)
GSH (Glutathione) decreases mTOR
lycopene binds to gh, increase igfbp-1, igfbp-2
mpb have high homocysteine
mpb predispose to prostate cancer, insulin resistance
gh inversely related to igfbp-2
moderate aerobic exercice lowers igf-1, raises igfbp-3 (overtraining lowers igfbp-3)
cardio before resistance training raises igfbp-3 a lot (resistance training also raises igf-1)
endurance training raises dht
estrogen increases osteoblast formation, differentiation, proliferation and function, but decreases osteoclast formation (blast = growth, clast = lost)
PPara/FGF21 blunts gf  igf1
Ginger extract increases ppar
alpha lipoic acid promotes FGF21
5-a reductase type 2 (mpb/prostate) likes acidic ph
5-a reductase type 1 likes alkaline ph
acidifying foods block growth hormone (not sure about the mechanism behind this, americans on acid diets bald a lot; maybe blocking gh like insulin resistance leads to the body pumping more gh?)
leptin administration increases igf-1
hdac inhibitors upregulates notch-1 which inhibits growth hormone (garlic, curcumin, brocoli, butyrate are natural hdac inhibitors)
estradiol binds to igf-1 (another thing that protects women from balding?)
amino acids arginine, lysine, ornithine, glycine linked to growth hormone
malnutrition, diabetes mellitus, hepatic/liver disease linked to high growth hormone (acquired conditions)
ghrd, stat5b, igf-1 mutation linked to high growth hormone (genetic conditions)
als mutation (genetic) linked to normal gh, very low igf-1

I suggest you do some research on your own, and post what you find. Everything that is igf, hormones, genes, bone growth related. By the way it is a very big subject in anti-aging theories and cancer therapies. Valter Longo for instance is one the most knowledgeable people on igf-1.

Elephanto wrote:Glad i'm not the only one noticing. I think dairy plays a role but I don't think it's much more potent than your average meat. Methionine which is in meat and dairy is the building block to igf-1, which promotes bone growth. Mpb are found to have low shbg (which means high free androgens), high igf-1 and low igfbp-3 (igfbp-1-2-3 bind igf-1 so that it isn't free). The whole diet is very promoting of androgens, that means more dht, more test, etc, and if women have higher growth hormone (they do) but are shorter and don't experience baldness, it is because they don't have the high androgens to go with the high growth hormone, to result in higher bone growth. Peat basically tells you to eat no fiber, high carbs and cholesterol, the combination promotes higher androgens while a diet rich in fiber (probably the diet you had while vegan) promotes shbg, which mean less androgens. There's also the orange juice, which has niacin, which by lowering free fatty acids, promotes growth hormone secretion. The good results you got are probably mainly by getting rid of calcification (dt + good calcium intake), as I'm having the same experience as you. I also think that high androgens ironically gives you thicker/better looking hair (igf-1 actually work on hair follicles that way).

From studies Ive found :
hyperinsulinemia stimulates igf-1 and supresses igfbp-1 production
igfbp3 negatively associated with saturated fat
igf1 positively associated with red meat, fat, oils, negatively associated with carbs
low gi meal increases igbp-3, high gi meal decreases it
mtor upregulates igfbp-3 (eIF4F)
GSH (Glutathione) decreases mTOR
lycopene binds to gh, increase igfbp-1, igfbp-2
mpb have high homocysteine
mpb predispose to prostate cancer, insulin resistance
gh inversely related to igfbp-2
moderate aerobic exercice lowers igf-1, raises igfbp-3 (overtraining lowers igfbp-3)
cardio before resistance training raises igfbp-3 a lot (resistance training also raises igf-1)
endurance training raises dht
estrogen increases osteoblast formation, differentiation, proliferation and function, but decreases osteoclast formation (blast = growth, clast = lost)
PPara/FGF21 blunts gf  igf1
Ginger extract increases ppar
alpha lipoic acid promotes FGF21
5-a reductase type 2 (mpb/prostate) likes acidic ph
5-a reductase type 1 likes alkaline ph
acidifying foods block growth hormone (not convinced about the mechanism behind this, americans on acid diets bald a lot)
leptin administration increases igf-1
hdac inhibitors upregulates notch-1 which inhibits growth hormone (garlic, curcumin, brocoli, butyrate are natural hdac inhibitors)
estradiol binds to igf-1 (another thing that protects women from balding?)
amino acids arginine, lysine, ornithine, glycine linked to growth hormone
malnutrition, diabetes mellitus, hepatic/liver disease linked to high growth hormone (acquired conditions)
ghrd, stat5b, igf-1 mutation linked to high growth hormone (genetic conditions)
als mutation (genetic) linked to normal gh, very low igf-1

I suggest you do some research on your own, and post what you find. Everything that is igf, hormones, genes, bone growth related. By the way it is a very big subject in anti-aging theories and cancer therapies. Valter Longo for instance is one the most knowledgeable people on igf-1.

Well said mate, Methionine also affects your methylation cycle so it completely stuffs up your cycle.

sanderson wrote:

bogv51 wrote:Sorry but I'm tired of people posting up new thread saying they are seeing results after 2-3 weeks of doing their new regimen. You don't see me posting new thread every time I think I see regrowth, I know better than that.

for real.. seriously op, what the fuck are you talking about? regrowth in 3 weeks? the hair lifecycle doesn't even go that short. if you posted some pictures with terminal dark hairs.. then we can talk.

If you guys read my original post through clear lenses I am talking about skull growth on a particular diet. Seriously just use that energy in a positive way. I'm sure through experience I know things that you don't just like I'm sure you know things that I don't, so attacking someone's claims whilst completely disregarding the topic on hand is about as productive as me pulling my hair out to check if my hair is still falling out.

If we aren't here to raise questions and find answers then why are we?



Elephanto - Thanks a lot, that's some great info. Dairy may be worse with all the IGF-1 that is present. I read a study where IGF-1 levels were 10% higher in people who consume dairy products than people who don't. And I've been getting half my calories from dairy products so who knows what that has done to my IGF-1 levels.






I also have some pretty clear evidence of my skull growth over the last few years so I will also post those soon.

Elephanto wrote:Glad i'm not the only one noticing. I think dairy plays a role but I don't think it's much more potent than your average meat. Methionine which is in meat and dairy is the building block to igf-1, which promotes bone growth. Mpb are found to have low shbg (which means high free androgens), high igf-1 and low igfbp-3 (igfbp-1-2-3 bind igf-1 so that it isn't free). The whole diet is very promoting of androgens, that means more dht, more test, etc, and if women have higher growth hormone (they do) but are shorter and don't experience baldness, it is because they don't have the high androgens to go with the high growth hormone, to result in higher bone growth. Peat basically tells you to eat no fiber, high carbs and cholesterol, the combination promotes higher androgens while a diet rich in fiber (probably the diet you had while vegan) promotes shbg, which mean less androgens. There's also the orange juice, which has niacin, which by lowering free fatty acids, promotes growth hormone secretion. The good results you got are probably mainly by getting rid of calcification (dt + good calcium intake), as I'm having the same experience as you. I also think that high androgens ironically gives you thicker/better looking hair (igf-1 actually work on hair follicles that way).

From studies Ive found :
hyperinsulinemia stimulates igf-1 and supresses igfbp-1 production
igfbp3 negatively associated with saturated fat
igf1 positively associated with red meat, fat, oils, negatively associated with carbs
low gi meal increases igbp-3, high gi meal decreases it
mtor upregulates igfbp-3 (eIF4F)
GSH (Glutathione) decreases mTOR
lycopene binds to gh, increase igfbp-1, igfbp-2
mpb have high homocysteine
mpb predispose to prostate cancer, insulin resistance
gh inversely related to igfbp-2
moderate aerobic exercice lowers igf-1, raises igfbp-3 (overtraining lowers igfbp-3)
cardio before resistance training raises igfbp-3 a lot (resistance training also raises igf-1)
endurance training raises dht
estrogen increases osteoblast formation, differentiation, proliferation and function, but decreases osteoclast formation (blast = growth, clast = lost)
PPara/FGF21 blunts gf  igf1
Ginger extract increases ppar
alpha lipoic acid promotes FGF21
5-a reductase type 2 (mpb/prostate) likes acidic ph
5-a reductase type 1 likes alkaline ph
acidifying foods block growth hormone (not sure about the mechanism behind this, americans on acid diets bald a lot; maybe blocking gh like insulin resistance leads to the body pumping more gh?)
leptin administration increases igf-1
hdac inhibitors upregulates notch-1 which inhibits growth hormone (garlic, curcumin, brocoli, butyrate are natural hdac inhibitors)
estradiol binds to igf-1 (another thing that protects women from balding?)
amino acids arginine, lysine, ornithine, glycine linked to growth hormone
malnutrition, diabetes mellitus, hepatic/liver disease linked to high growth hormone (acquired conditions)
ghrd, stat5b, igf-1 mutation linked to high growth hormone (genetic conditions)
als mutation (genetic) linked to normal gh, very low igf-1

I suggest you do some research on your own, and post what you find. Everything that is igf, hormones, genes, bone growth related. By the way it is a very big subject in anti-aging theories and cancer therapies. Valter Longo for instance is one the most knowledgeable people on igf-1.

I'm a vegan due to religious purposes, so I have to work with what I got. With all this talk of amino acids and igf-1, is this a terrible protein powder to have?
https://www.google.com/search?q=plant+fusion+nutrition+facts&espv=2&biw=1398&bih=714&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=UMpIVaXGIreasQT2zoC4Dw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#imgrc=EuY0qAEO3IT6xM%253A%3BWwkXpbv_y_Y9pM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nitrofusion.us%252Fimages%252Fnutrition_lg.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nitrofusion.us%252Fproducts.html%3B790%3B612

droy wrote:Hi guys

long time reader, first time poster.

I have been following Danny Roddy's advice for about 2 weeks now along with Tom Hagerty's SE and DT (both since october 2014) and am seeing great results: Complete stabilisation of hair loss, minimal sebum, no dandruff, no scalp inflammation, no scalp tightness (other than a bit around the crown) and many vellus hairs appearing along hairline. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.
-droy

Great for you. I wish you continued success and satisfaction.
Do you use any oils or similar topically on the scalp?

Growdamnit :

Your protein powder is high in leucine, which I mostly learned about today, it enhances the mtor pathway (growth), and it is also high in milk. Some protein sources that are both low in methionine and leucine are lentils, fava beans. Legumes in general.

(im taking this info from another thread, im not sure about the best proteins for leucine yet, lentils actually seem high in it)

What is worse then? That protein powder or the PUFAs from the beans?

droy wrote:

sanderson wrote:

bogv51 wrote:Sorry but I'm tired of people posting up new thread saying they are seeing results after 2-3 weeks of doing their new regimen. You don't see me posting new thread every time I think I see regrowth, I know better than that.

for real.. seriously op, what the fuck are you talking about? regrowth in 3 weeks? the hair lifecycle doesn't even go that short. if you posted some pictures with terminal dark hairs.. then we can talk.

If you guys read my original post through clear lenses I am talking about skull growth on a particular diet. Seriously just use that energy in a positive way. I'm sure through experience I know things that you don't just like I'm sure you know things that I don't, so attacking someone's claims whilst completely disregarding the topic on hand is about as productive as me pulling my hair out to check if my hair is still falling out.

If we aren't here to raise questions and find answers then why are we?



Elephanto - Thanks a lot, that's some great info. Dairy may be worse with all the IGF-1 that is present. I read a study where IGF-1 levels were 10% higher in people who consume dairy products than people who don't. And I've been getting half my calories from dairy products so who knows what that has done to my IGF-1 levels.






I also have some pretty clear evidence of my skull growth over the last few years so I will also post those soon.

We need before/afters. Those could be miniaturizing follicles.

Growdamnit wrote:What is worse then? That protein powder or the PUFAs from the beans?

i am vegan too, but even before i was , i was still balding

whats youre diet and you hair loss pattern like i wanna compare

alphadelta wrote:

Growdamnit wrote:What is worse then? That protein powder or the PUFAs from the beans?

i am vegan too, but even before i was , i was still balding

whats youre diet and you hair loss pattern like i wanna compare

I was balding before, as well. I have temporal loss, but the rest of m hair seems okay.