OT: Infant Vaccinations: My Dilemna

September 17, 2014 at 1:32 pm
My most educated uncle (phd in psych) just quoted that one to me. When I said they were using fewer antigens, he countered that it was the *variety* that was the problem. I let it drop (for now) because he’s 70.

Reply
WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

You could mention to him that if a baby gets infected with measles, mumps, rebella, polio, pertussis, influenza, Hib, tetanus or any other vaccine-preventable diseases, they will get exposed to pretty much exactly the same antigens, but at literally a billion times greater levels. An antigen in a vaccine is maybe a couple hundred particles. Get a viral infection and your cells will lyse open spillion literally billions of whole viruses into your body. Not to mention, the variety is also exponentially greater, because the antigens found in a vaccine are relatively narrow. The antigens, viral particles and bacteria undergo mutation.

Without vaccines, you get exposed to them anyway. You get exposed to a lot more. You get exposed to far more different types. In all these cases, vaccination results in fewer antigens and fewer varieties than wild-type infection. His argument is self-defeating.

Privileged Antivaxxers

The Hollywood Reporter recently published what is mostly an exposé on privileged Hollywood parents who have elected to delay, limit, or avoid altogether immunizing their children. The most common headline coming out of this article is that some LA communities have vaccination rates at third-world levels, such as South Sudan. The issues raises many questions pertinent to the promotion of science-based medicine – what leads an otherwise well-educated individual with financial security to make decisions that actually put their own children (and others) at risk?

Read more here:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/privileged-antivaxxers/

Measles named official state disease of California

California has taken an usual step in the fight against vaccine preventable diseases by naming Measles as the official state disease. Measles will join The California Poppy (official state flower) and the California Quail (official state bird) as symbols of the great state of California.

“With vaccination rates dropping due to crazy and irrational parents, Measles is on the rise,” explains Dr. Alec Martinez of the California State Health Department. “Seemed like the next logical thing to do was make it official.”

The CDC and WHO encourage parents to listen to science and reason, rather than washed up celebrities and conspiracy theory websites when it comes to the health of your children.

http://thespudd.com/measles-named-official-state-disease-of-california/

*To anyone who believes the vaccine party line*

Vitamin C prevents and treats all of these dis-eases...that's right, everyone single one!

Second, vaccines poison you with mercury, aluminium and induce cancer.

Third, vaccine makers are immune from lawsuits. They just want your money.

In the least this is epic greed over people's health, and at worst, it's population control.

Research is quite clear, mercury cause neurological deficits. This is absolute physiology that cannot be disputed.

THe vaccine makers dont pay damages but the federal government (taxpayers)does.

The federal government have stated that "vaccines may cause brain encephalopathy with autisic like symptoms" but vaccines "dont cause autism".  Make of that what you will.

http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/09/07/here-it-is-how-the-us-government-admits-vaccines-cause-autism/

CS, I don't usually waste my time watching youtube quackery. Anybody can make one, without any medical or science background. Like the one you posted. Where are the citations? How can I believe this poorly done animated video posted in 2008 with only two replies? There's no context to show that mercury is harmful.. The guy doesn't even explain which kind of mercury he's talking about. Vaccinations are down in California and guess what? Cases of measles are on the rise. . .

Please read and learn the difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury:


What is the difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury? How are they different?
When learning about thimerosal and mercury it is important to understand the difference between two different compounds that contain mercury: ethylmercury and methylmercury. They are totally different materials.
Methylmercury is formed in the environment when mercury metal is present. If this material is found in the body, it is usually the result of eating some types of fish or other food. High amounts of methylmercury can harm the nervous system. This has been found in studies of some populations that have long-term exposure to methylmercury in foods at levels that are far higher than the U.S. population. In the United States, federal guidelines keep as much methylmercury as possible out of the environment and food, but over a lifetime, everyone is exposed to some methylmercury.
Ethylmercury is formed when the body breaks down thimerosal. The body uses ethylmercury differently than methylmercury; ethylmercury is broken down and clears out of the blood more quickly.  Low-level ethylmercury exposures from vaccines are very different from long-term methylmercury exposures, since the ethylmercury does not stay in the body.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/thimerosal_faqs.html#b


Vitamin C will save us!

When Drexx returns he will save us!

Violet ray gun wands are the KEY!

Odysseus -

Dr. Fritz Lorscheider and Dr. Naweed Syed of the University of Calgary demonstrate how neurons are destroyed by mercury.

http://www.unisci.com/stories/20011/0327013.htm

The Centers for Disease Creation are lying. It's pure rubbish.

Yes, vitamin C and save lives.

Thing is, unless you live in an unsanitary fashion or inject yourself with a vaccine, you're not likely to get these diseases.

CS, I have a long-running debate with my mainstream brother on vaccines. Today he posted this at Facebook. How would you respond?

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/wealthy-la-schools-vaccination-rates-are-as-low-as-south-sudans/380252/#ixzz3DcPaWnN3

Delphine wrote:
CS, I have a long-running debate with my mainstream brother on vaccines.  Today he posted this at Facebook.  How would you respond?

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/wealthy-la-schools-vaccination-rates-are-as-low-as-south-sudans/380252/#ixzz3DcPaWnN3

Mainstream is getting desperate.  All they can muster is fear, because perpetuating the myth is all they've got. They can't argue on hard facts. Healthier children are non-vaccinated.  

Thanks CS. Good to have the facts at hand. So do you think they are making it up about the incidence of whooping cough?

“The combined death rate from scarlet fever, diphtheria, whooping cough and measles among children up to fifteen shows that nearly 90 percent of the total decline in mortality between 1860 and 1965 had occurred before the introduction of antibiotics and widespread immunization. In part, this recession may be attributed to improved housing and to a decrease in the virulence of micro-organisms, but by far the most important factor was a higher host-resistance due to better nutrition.” Ivan Illich, Medical Nemesis, Bantam Books, 1977

In other words, for reasons having nothing to do with vaccination, the diseases were on the way out. Nutrition had improved, sanitation was better, etc.

Vaccines generally double the rate of whooping cough.

Vitamin C will treat any of these so-called pandemics.

Just had a thought. The cases of whooping cough reported could be in vaccinated kids. But they're looking at the numbers without looking into
whether those cases were vaccinated...yet still blaming it on the unvaccinated kids! Just conjecture, of course, but I can't help wondering!

Delphine wrote:
Just had a thought.  The cases of whooping cough reported could be in vaccinated kids.  But they're looking at the numbers without looking into
whether those cases were vaccinated...yet still blaming it on the unvaccinated kids!   Just conjecture, of course, but I can't help wondering!

Exactly. The truth is, no double blind, placebo controlled study exists, so the numbers could assumed anyway.

However, there was a baboon study.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/12/10/whooping-cough-pertussis-vaccine.aspx

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/18/the_deadly_truth_about_vaccine_denialism_partner/

My cousin who is a medical student posted this today on facebook, got my blood boilin. How is everyone else doin?

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:http://www.salon.com/2014/09/18/the_deadly_truth_about_vaccine_denialism_partner/

My cousin who is a medical student posted this today on facebook, got my blood boilin. How is everyone else doin?

I call those pro vaccine propagandists, toxin denialists

The basic answer to health is nutrition.

Monsanto, Bayer, Dow, Syngenta and big agriculture destroy the soils and the microbial environment.
People get sick and think they need a poison in a vaccine, when instead they need selenium, iodine, zinc, silica, etc.

Vitamin C will stop any of these "outbreaks" which isn't an outbreak at all, it's just poor sanitary conditions or a dirty body from toxic foods.

Notable quotes about vaccines:

Comparison of ethyl and methylmercury: There is a vast amount of scientific evidence, some of it published over 50 years ago, that ethylmercury like methylmercury penetrates the brain and/or is a neurotoxicant (Warkany et al 1953, Hook et al 1954, Dahhan and Orfally 1962, Miller et al 1961, Clarkson 1972, Mukai, 1972, Tryphonas et al 1973, Derban, 1974, Yonaha et al 1975, Cinca et al, 1979,Zhang 1984, Dumitrescu 1979, Fagan et al 1979, Mukhtarova 1977, Magos et al 1985, Winship 1986, Chang and Verity 1995, Lowell et al 1996 ,Ball et al 2001, Eli Lilly 1999, Smith-Kline 1999 and Kramer et al 2004, Ueha-Ishibashi et al 2004). Other publications in the reference list support the notion that ethyl and methylmercury have similar toxicological properties but the ones listed illustrate that information on the neurological toxicities of ethylmercury and thimerosal are similar. Futhermore, the U.S EPA has established criteria for determining whether or not high production volume (HPV) chemicals can be grouped together for the purpose of evaluating health hazard data used in risk assessments (EPA HPV program 1999).

When those criteria are applied to ethyl and methylmercury, it is clear that they would be grouped together because they have common physiochemical properties (Tan and Parkin 2000) and would be expected to cause a common pattern of toxicity operating through a common mode of action.

Accidental ingestion by children of meat contaminated with ethylmercury led to severe neurological symptoms and autopsy data showed nerve cell loss, glial proliferation in the central cortex, demyelination, granule cell loss in the cerebellum and other pathologies of the central nervous system (Cinca et al 1979). Similar findings were observed in an accidental case of methylmercury poisoning (Davis et al 1994). Recent studies have demonstrated that Purkinje cell loss is a common neurological abnormality in autism and these cells are vulnerable to mercury exposures (Kern et al 2003; Sorensen et al 2000).

...and... from William Thompson

"I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.”

Thanks CS.
The vaccine-toxin denialists need a shot of critical thinking skills.

Exchange between my bro and me at Facebook:
Bro: The vaccines have already proved their effectiveness--they don't need the support or the non-support of this or that study. Would you also suggest that scientists not strive to find a vaccine for the Ebola virus? And if you say, "of course scientists should track down a vaccine for the Ebola virus, don't be silly," then I'm lost as to what you're saying.

Me:  The whole concept of vaccines is mistaken. One day this will become common knowledge and vaccines will go the way of bloodletting and leeches.

Show him this:

http://www.naturalnews.com/046941_Ebola_virus_patents_vaccines.html?utm_content=buffer1b63b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Apparently the CDC owns all the patents for all these vaccines. Maybe the CDC also stands for the Centers for Data Conflict. They spend 4 billion a year on vaccines.

It seems no matter what we present to the pro-vax crowd, they cannot escape from the conditioning. We as human beings arrived here perfectly well without injecting known neurotoxins.

They probably are not aware of the power of selenium and other minerals have on the immune system.

Or that poor sanitation was really the reason why people were getting sick.

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:http://www.salon.com/2014/09/18/the_deadly_truth_about_vaccine_denialism_partner/

My cousin who is a medical student posted this today on facebook, got my blood boilin. How is everyone else doin?

Your cousin's a bright guy, learning actual evidence-based medicine. There's a million articles like that written by scientists and researchers (independent studies) out there. All you have to do it look. . . and not hard, either.

Odysseus wrote:

hiilikeyourbeard wrote:http://www.salon.com/2014/09/18/the_deadly_truth_about_vaccine_denialism_partner/

My cousin who is a medical student posted this today on facebook, got my blood boilin. How is everyone else doin?

Your cousin's a bright guy, learning actual evidence-based medicine. There's a million articles like that written by scientists and researchers (independent studies) out there. All you have to do it look. . . and not hard, either.

Evidenced based you say?

Hardly!

There isn't a shred of evidence these things are safe.  Not one double blind, placebo controlled study to show safety and efficacy.

There's plenty of data on animals that show harm, plus the human study that the CDC manipulated.

There's also plenty of evidence that injecting mercury (in any form) is harmful. Plenty of evidence that injecting aluminium is harmful. Plenty of evidence that injecting mycoplasma is harmful.

With selenium and vitamin C and D, why even believe in vaccines?

CausticSymmetry wrote:Show him this:

http://www.naturalnews.com/046941_Ebola_virus_patents_vaccines.html?utm_content=buffer1b63b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=bufferp

Thanks, good one, posted it there...

Apparently the CDC owns all the patents for all these vaccines. Maybe the CDC also stands for the Centers for Data Conflict. They spend 4 billion a year on vaccines.

My son (we also argue about this) just sent to me:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=31615281&nid=148&title=cdc-90-of-kids-who-died-last-flu-season-didnt-get-vaccine

More spin doctoring, I presume. I informed son that the CDC owns all the patents for the vaccines. He refuses to believe they're profiting from them. Says "The vaccine is free!"

It seems no matter what we present to the pro-vax crowd, they cannot escape from the conditioning. We as human beings arrived here perfectly well without injecting known neurotoxins.

They probably are not aware of the power of selenium and other minerals have on the immune system.

Or that poor sanitation was really the reason why people were getting sick.

You can tell them these things, but they don't listen. Odysseus is certainly an example. Look how long he's been on here and he is still ardently pro-vax.

It's tantamount to a religious belief.

Delphine - Yeah for sure. The level of spin and deception is so profound these days I sometimes wonder why people buy the propaganda.

About the flu shot spin article. What they don't say is that in the majority of the cases, it's not the flu they die of, it's pneumonia. Something the flu shot does not prevent. In fact, to go further, anti-acid drugs significantly increase the odds of pneumonia.

Unlike the flu shot, high-dose vitamin C can help.

Yes, it's frustrating when you attempt to educate people on this, and there's so much flak in the form of spin doctoring, it's nearly impossible.
I would really like my son to understand this, especially for the sake of any grandkids I may have.

Yes, vitamin C works in any infectious disease. Any disease, period.

Was just checking this out. Excellent, well-researched book:
http://www.amazon.com/Immunization-Reality-Edition-Revised-Updated/product-reviews/089789359X/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_5?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addFiveStar&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

In the Facebook thread, someone posted that the rabies vaccine was an example of successful immunization. I went websearching and found this excerpt from the above linked book.
Long but fascinating:

Germ Fallout: Rabies, Pasteurization, and Vaccines

Theories imprint a whole view of the universe and make you look at everything through blinders. -William Corliss, Brain/Mind Bulletin, January 24, 1983

...many people believe Pasteur saved the world from the ravages of milk-borne diseases and the bite of mad dogs. Let's begin with rabies.

RABIES

Rabies, according to one medical dictionary, is an infectious disease caused by a filterable virus that is communicated to man by the bite of an infected animal. Some of the symptoms listed are choking; tetanic spasms, especially of respiration and deglutition (act of swallowing), that are increased by the attempts to drink water or even the sight of water; mental derangement; vomiting; and profuse secretion of sticky saliva. And the disease is usually fatal. No wonder Pasteur, with his antirabies vaccine, was so readily hailed as the savior of humanity from this frightening scourge! Much has been made of the startling cure of 9-year-old Joseph Meister, whom Pasteur "saved" from hydrophobia (rabies). The cure seems less than miraculous when we discover that several other persons, including the dog's owner, were bitten by that same dog on the same day and continued in good health without receiving Pasteur's inoculations. Other children were not so fortunate. Mathieu Vidau died seven months after being personally treated by Pasteur. Also, another child, Louise Pelletier, died after receiving the Pasteur treatment. Dr. Charles Bell Taylor, in the National Review for July 1890, gave a list of cases in which patients of Pasteur's had died, while the dogs that had bitten them remained well.

Apparently, then as now, organized medicine was using the police powers of the state to enforce obedience to its doctrines: A French postman, Pierre Rascol, along with another man was attacked by a dog supposed to be mad, but he was not actually bitten, for the dog's teeth did not penetrate his clothing. Pierre Rascol's companion, however, received severe bites. Rascol was forced by the postal authorities to undergo the Pasteur treatment, which he did from March 9 to March 14. On April 12, severe symptoms set in, with pain at the points of inoculation. "On the 14th of April he died of paralytic hydrophobia, the new disease brought into the world by Pasteur. What wonder that Professor Michel Peter complained: 'M. Pasteur does not cure hydrophobia: he gives it!'"
What happened to Rascol's companion who was severely bitten? He refused to go to the Pasteur Institute and remained in perfect health! These stories could easily be dismissed as anecdotal except that there are a great many of them. An article in the Archives of Neurology and Psychiatry (January 1951) gives an account of two patients who became paralyzed after they had been treated by the Pasteur vaccine. A report in the Journal of the American Medical Association (January 14, 1956) relates that at a meeting of the Academy of Medicine in France it was pointed out that the use of the Pasteur vaccination for rabies may be followed as long as 20 years later by a disorder called Korsakoff's psychosis, which is a state of delirium. Twenty years later! It was also brought out at that same meeting that in a study of 460 patients treated with the Pasteur injection, 20 died.
The Indiana State Medical Journal (December 1950) reports the case of a man of 25 who received the Pasteur rabies treatment and became paralyzed from the waist down and died shortly thereafter. "The authors say that "no one knows what causes these paralytic reactions. However, it has been definitely established, they say, that they are not caused by the rabies virus. In other words, vaccination, not rabies is the danger here. The authors go on to quote Sellers, another authority, who believes that 'not hydrophobia but rabiophobia is the most troublesome problem.' Fear of rabies, then, is what we have to fear most. "A story illustrating the power of suggestion to create sickness or health is told by Millicent Morden:

A ten year old boy in town had been bitten by a dog, supposedly mad. Local newspapers reported he was dying of hydrophobia. Flocks of curious people were going to the house to enjoy the horrifying spectacle. The offer of a drink of water would throw the boy into a convulsion. If any object like a handkerchief or pencil were held near his head, he would growl, snapping at it savagely with his teeth and frothing at the mouth. He frequently uttered menacing growls like those of a vicious dog.
The student doctor hypnotized him and suggested that at 5 P.M. he would suddenly get well. He left asking that a swarm of visitors be kept out.
At 5 o'clock the boy announced that he was well and wanted supper. The crowd now wanted to see the one who had wrought the miracle in curing hydrophobia. All wanted to be treated by him.

This story, along with many others, tends to support statements made by some doctors and kennel owners that rabies is an imaginary disease. In the same radio address (quoted above), Dr. Morden mentioned other occasions when she entered a room where the patient was strapped down and even held during convulsions by one or more attendants. When she unstrapped the patient, dismissed the attendants, and assured the patient there was no such disease, she said rapid recovery followed.
...Many kennel owners report that in 30, 40, and even 50 years of working with dogs, they have never seen a case of rabies and that they and their coworkers have been repeatedly bitten by dogs and have simply washed the wound thoroughly with soap and water and that was the end of It.

Time magazine (November 19, 1951) gives some advice on what to do if you bitten by a dog. "It was proved eight years ago that rabies virus can be removed from a wound more thoroughly by soap and water than by nitric acid or any other cauterizing agents." Rabies virus can be inactivated by (1) interferon, a protein substance produced by the body and activated by parts of the B complex, and (2) vitamin C. As we discussed in Chapter 4, vitamin C in sufficient quantities will prevent the development of infectious disease.
Fred Klenner found that nerve-type diseases such as polio and tetanus could be successfully treated with the proper amount of vitamin C. Rabies virus can be inactivated in a test tube by the addition of vitamin C, and in 1967, a veterinarian proved he could cure distemper with vitamin C.
What is the rabies virus? The identifying bacteria are called "Negri bodies" and are found in the brain of the dead animal. However, these bodies are found the brains of animals and people who have died of causes having nothing to do with rabies. Frequently, they are not found in the brains of animals that the experts were sure had rabies. No wonder Dr. William Brady wrote as follows the Berkeley Gazette for September 1, 1954:
I have never seen a case of rabies in man and I have never met a doctor who has seen a case, yet we know that the preventive inoculation of Pasteur virus sometimes causes death. . . . The Pasteur treatment for rabies is a blind treatment and no one knows whether Pasteur treatment confers any protection against rabies. I'd never willingly receive Pasteur treatment or give it to anyone under any conceivable circumstances, because I fear material so injected has a disastrous effect in some instances. It is not always successful and occasionally paralysis follows its use.

What is rabies? T. D. Dillon, proprietor and kennel owner, said that most cases of supposed rabies are really running fits, teething fits, worm fits, sunstroke from heat exposure, or hysteria caused by the dog finding itself in a strange environment such as a hostile, bustling, crowded city. Other kennel owners have suggested that the so-called rabid dog can be suffering from poor treatment, hunger, thirst, fear. At any rate, the Pasteur treatment is as unhealthy and risky for dogs as it is for humans. Dillon goes on to say that most dogs that he has known to be inoculated with the rabies serum have died from its aftereffects.
Did, in fact, the incidence of hydrophobia decrease after the introduction of the Pasteur treatment? Dr. Charles W. Dulles, former lecturer at the University of Pennsylvania, said, "It has been shown by statistics that in countries where that method [the Pasteur treatment] is employed the number of deaths from hydrophobia has increased and not diminished." Ethyl Douglas Hume points out that prior to the Pasteur treatment the average number of deaths per year from hydrophobia in France was 30. After the Pasteur treatment, the number jumped to 45. She also discusses at length how the figures were manipulated to give the impression of "success." Does this sound familiar?
What we said about the rabies virus is true for other viruses as well. The disease with which a particular virus is associated is sometimes present and sometimes not; people who have a particular virus may or may not have the disease associated with it. ...

Think the above may have made some impression in the Facebook thread. No one is arguing, for a change.