Ugh!!!! Why is MPB so hard to completely understand?

Hoppipolla Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:08 am

Do you guys find that?

Like, correct me if anyone else completely understands it start to finish, but my understanding is so patchy.

1. SOMETHING imbalances male sex hormones. This seems to be infection (such as Candida) or a somehow weakened or overburdened liver.

2. These sex hormones flood the follicles and cause them to slowly die (if you're genetically susceptible). This may be due to an increase in sebum and subsequent infection of that sebum.

And that's all I've got really. I know that digestive health seems to be very closely linked to this process, which is why recently I've been speculating as to whether a reduction in sIgA (connected to being hypometabolic or stressed) in the prostate and intestines and other areas causes Candida to spread there and knock hormones out of balance. It may also allow other bacterial or fungal strains to infect there.

Basically, I understand that by correcting hormonal balance you'll correct MPB, and correcting digestive health seems to correct hormonal balance? But I don't understand the exact connection, or even 100% whether I'm correct on this.

Help!!!!

Thanks dudes,

Hoppi Smile

EDIT -- Perhaps it varies in different people, but the precise cause doesn't matter as long as the effect is an alteration in the balance of the male sex hormones? So perhaps it can be liver issues (or prostate issues such as infection?) but it doesn't have to be the same in everyone as long as the result is imbalanced male sex hormones. So the trick is to determine why the hormones have gone out of balance and correct that?

DOUBLE EDIT -- Ah whoops, the prostate doesn't produce any sex hormones. Although sIgA is also secreted throughout the genitourinary system apparently so perhaps a lack of it could cause Candida infection and possibly other infection anywhere there o.O

moby Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:17 am

it's not hard it's just that you have a dumb regimen - diet and brushing won't fix it. What else is in your regimen?

Hoppipolla Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:21 am

moby wrote:it's not hard it's just that you have a dumb regimen - diet and brushing won't fix it. What else is in your regimen?

Cheers for that. I'm not going to speak to you until you learn to speak courteously to other people.

moby Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:28 am

hoppipolla wrote:
Cheers for that. I'm not going to speak to you until you learn to speak courteously to other people.

no seriously I'm curious to see what you're currently using

AS54 Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:35 am

Hoppi,

I can think of a few reasons why its so difficult to understand.

First, it involves such a multitude of factors. It is such a multivariate process that it tends to elude the standards we have of knowing something. Consider the scientific method. We are trying to show a causal relationship between two variables, a and b. With a process that has so many variables, even a well conducted study can only give us a small part of the whole picture.

Second, and related to the first, is the large amount of research it would take to fully understand MPB requires a large amount of funding, and typically funding for research comes from those parties who are interested in a cure. Given how big of a business hair restoration products are, there isn't much funding coming from industry who profit immensely from the public being in the dark. Welcome to the information hoarding tactics that are western healthcare.

Third, almost every hormone in the body has an effect on hair growth, and given how complex our endocrine system is...we don't even fully understand the relationships between our various hormones, so trying to the understand the effects those relationships have on the tissues is even more distant. Hair loss is a huge, complex interaction between environment and genetics. We don't fully understand how either of those by themselves effect phenotype so trying to understand how they combine in hairloss is just massively confusing.

I just think the way we do science isn't geared toward understanding a phenomena like hairloss. We are stuck in the focus that problem A is cured by compound B, and you can see how successful our healthcare system has been serving that paradigm. We rarely cure anything, just dampen symptoms until they are "liveable". Compound this with the fact the business interests who make the world go round aren't interested in giving people cures, and you quickly realize the resources needed for the type of research we'd like to see just aren't very accessible.

ubraj Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:04 am

Study autoimmune ailments and you'll get a good understanding on MPB, IMO/IME

CausticSymmetry Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:24 am

I second anthonyspencer54 & rdkml

If I had to take my best guess, the problem lies in following areas primarily.

The relationship between stress, neurosteroids, ERbeta, 5alpha-androstane 3β, 17β Diol,
immune regulation, gut flora, toxins verses nutrients.

Being even more specific, it's the relationship between androgens the immune system.

AS54 Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:13 am

CS hit in on the head based on my viewpoints, and Rdkml also.

ubraj Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:35 pm

http://books.google.com/books/about/Parasites_and_Pathogens.html?id=v44RlnM9ncQC

I haven't read this book but anyone can by clicking on the contents below such as the chapter on "How Parasites and Pathogens Alter the Endocrine" Maybe this will give some insights.

And of course what I've mentioned many times before that one can always tell if another is still suffering from hair loss on a forum just by their attitude. Smile

There is a chapter in that book or can order this one for interesting info http://www.amazon.com/Parasite-Rex-New-Epilogue-Dangerous/dp/074320011X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346729613&sr=8-1&keywords=parasite+rex

It's an old book but from the newer info from Dr. K and others these pathogens (and mold) affect our hormones and many other issues. Reversing these pathogenic issues and of course removing the toxins and heavy metals needed for them helps normalizes these issues. Course one could focus on the beneficial bacteria for this as well... but I think the best results with such technology would be decades away.

course the above is not a complete list but enough to maybe give a brief understanding. In short, Dr. K has a lot of great info on this topic.

LawOfThelema Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:29 pm

autokatkinetic systems ain't easy

rofl Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:50 pm

I greatly admire the work here by others to understand mpb, but the reality is we really dont know wat causes it, we only have theories. thats why even after the human genome has been mapped, and we are finding genetic and environmental and epigenetic causes for most diseases, the cause of mpb eludes us.

it is honestly the holy grail of medicine, and great wealth awaits the person or company that solves the problem.

my personal take is really just a combination of pieces of others theories.

i believe u first have to have the genetic predisposition.

and then receive environmental influences to ultimately express those genes, which may include toxicities, metabolic syndrome, and deficiencies.

and then its a complex pathway of hormonal imbalance, inflammation, scarring, and miniturization.

personally i think for me theres a high genetic factor, because i have many brothers, with all different diets, excercise, and environmental influences (some of us drink, smoke, take drugs others have never touched any poisons) we all use different pharmaceuticals, yet we all are receding at more or less the same speed as our father. the oldest has the most recession, the youngest the least.

it certainly is a mystery. but i think humans will solve it eventually. or just all evolve into baldies.

Amaranthaceae Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:12 pm

IMHO it has two central pieces of a puzzle - restricted bloodflow to parts of the scalp, and upregulated androgen sensitivity in those areas of the scalp .. then a chain reaction of
events occur slowly which is described as mpb.

moby Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:24 am

curious, am I the only one who has halted his baldness using a few items from this forum???

theseeker86 Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:57 am

What are those "items", Moby?

despacio Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:23 am

moby wrote:it's not hard it's just that you have a dumb regimen - diet and brushing won't fix it. What else is in your regimen?

moby wrote:Leon, apparently someone made your book available online for free

http://www.scribd.com/doc/104537964/Stop-Hair-Loss-and-Grow-New-Hair-With-the-Maliniak-Method

how does that make you feel?

moby wrote: that guy is the biggest scammer ever lol and he's threatening to sue me for what??? using google

here you go:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/104537964/Stop-Hair-Loss-and-Grow-New-Hair-With-the-Maliniak-Method

^ free maliniak book saves you $100

BAN HIM

MOBY= Toolbag. Who the hell do you think you are?!?! A lot of your posts are sniping ingnorant negative comments. I for one think you should be banned! Go get laid or take some Midol.

tooyoung Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:19 am

theseeker86 wrote:What are those "items", Moby?

Hoppipolla Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:27 am

Thanks for all the great input everyone, some very interesting posts Smile

I'll write a proper full reply probably tomorrow, but check out this vid, it backs up what I was saying before about sebum being a big part of MPB (and what a lot of us have said about sebum, of course):

The particularly interesting bit is around 4:20, but the whole video is pretty awesome so far. Wow.

LawOfThelema Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:32 pm

sebum is only a part of mpb in that the DHT in the sebum that is laying on top of your head can be reabsorbed into your skin where it can do its dirty work, and that sebum can harbor fungus which can cause inflammation and exasperate your existing MPB. not in any other sense is sebum a cause of baldness, and even in these senses it's contribution isnt largel. that high sebum is often found in balding heads is just that sebum production is under androgenic regulation. if you are hypersensitive to androgens on the scalp... well you get the picture.

sanderson Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:57 pm

tooyoung wrote:
theseeker86 wrote:What are those "items", Moby?

rofl Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:06 pm

:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?:What are those "items", Moby?

U gonna answer us or wat?

LawOfThelema Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:23 pm

he uses vitamin A and D, and other supps recommended on this site IIRC

tooyoung Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:25 pm

sanderson wrote:
tooyoung wrote:
theseeker86 wrote:What are those "items", Moby?

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t7963p30-homer-simpson-grew-his-hair-back-with-gravity-boots-and-scalp-massages#80637

Hoppipolla Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:23 am

LawOfThelema wrote:sebum is only a part of mpb in that the DHT in the sebum that is laying on top of your head can be reabsorbed into your skin where it can do its dirty work, and that sebum can harbor fungus which can cause inflammation and exasperate your existing MPB. not in any other sense is sebum a cause of baldness, and even in these senses it's contribution isnt largel. that high sebum is often found in balding heads is just that sebum production is under androgenic regulation. if you are hypersensitive to androgens on the scalp... well you get the picture.

Are you sure? I'm sure I've heard stories about astringents like witch hazel working for MPB though o.O

987 Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:28 am

hoppipolla wrote:
LawOfThelema wrote:sebum is only a part of mpb in that the DHT in the sebum that is laying on top of your head can be reabsorbed into your skin where it can do its dirty work, and that sebum can harbor fungus which can cause inflammation and exasperate your existing MPB. not in any other sense is sebum a cause of baldness, and even in these senses it's contribution isnt largel. that high sebum is often found in balding heads is just that sebum production is under androgenic regulation. if you are hypersensitive to androgens on the scalp... well you get the picture.

Are you sure? I'm sure I've heard stories about astringents like witch hazel working for MPB though o.O

I use witch hazel every once in awhile to clean my scalp, just got to becareful your not drying the skin out too much.

AS54 Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:22 am

I think MPB has a huge relationship to acne and other conditions of the skin, including keratosis. I see it as a spectrum.

I do believe sebum has a role in hair loss. Specifically, the effect of the androgens and the wound healing response in hair loss produces fibrosis within the sebum ducts, changing production and motility of the sebum. I believe, and its only a hypothesis, this could modify the commensal bacteria populations. I actually think it could modify the populations of p acnes. Normal fatty acid metabolism of sebum on the skin surface would be modified, and could favor metabolism that could produce an immune response (in addition to the immune response against the bacteria themselves).

Wish I could do the research myself.

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Ugh!!!! Why is MPB so hard to completely understand?

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