Carbohydrates & Sugar Levels (Weight)

So I went on a medium carbohydrate diet, eating high fat and under 50g of carbs a day last year and I lost a couple of stone. Rather than keeping my daily carb intake to a medium range (50 - 100g)I want to continue eating common foods like rice, pasta, potatoes, cereal etc. I am concerned about gaining weight due to the sugar level spikes. There are two supplements in the Immortal Hair supplement line that I believe help with controlling sugar levels. These are:

- Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid
- Pure Ecklonia Cava

When I eat a bowl of cereal or have several slices of bread, to avoid a large spike in my blood sugar levels (and gaining weight), should I be taking Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid before eating? If I have a pasta based meal, again, to avoid gaining weight over long term, should I be consuming a Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid capsule? How does Ecklonia Cava come into controlling weight gain from eating high carb foods? Is it good to combine Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid and Ecklonia Cava to control weight while eating carbs? or is this over the top?

If I haven't understood this whole weight gain/sugar/carbs thing, please correct me!

Total calories account for body mass; and out of these calories, those from protein account for lean body mass.

ppm wrote:You will gain weight only if you consume calories in excess of calorie expenditure.
So, total calories will determine body mass; and out of these calories, those from protein will determine lean body mass.

I don't agree with the calories theory, I think it's nonsense.

Well, the laws of physics demand it :D
The only thing is that it may be difficult to understand "calories out".

Ok, look here: Effect of Dietary Protein Content on Weight Gain, Energy Expenditure, and Body Composition During Overeating

goten574 wrote:

ppm wrote:You will gain weight only if you consume calories in excess of calorie expenditure.
So, total calories will determine body mass; and out of these calories, those from protein will determine lean body mass.

I don't agree with the calories theory, I think it's nonsense.

I don't know if it's nonsense. AFAIK, the discussions against the calorie-expenditure theory are mainly based on how certain nutrients (ie., fructose and starch) can alter the physiological pathways governing appetite and satiety, and thereby indirectly cause caloric intake beyond what is used.

Assuming the "too many carbs = weight gain" is true, I'd like to know if eating high carb meals with Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid and/or Pure Ecklonia Cava would be enough to stop the high blood sugar spike and therefore prevent weight gain?

goten - Those supplements will help with the inevitable insulin spike that comes from eating those kind of foods you listed. I would also take Acetyl-L Carnitine 1000mg with them prior to the meal you're going to have those kind of carbs. There's no sure thing. One thing you might want to test is get a glucose monitor and see what the meals with those kind of carbs do to your blood sugar level. I think they are cheap - like $20-30, but I'm not sure on that. There are theories that combining protein with those kind of foods lessens the hit on your insulin. I think it does, but I think it does because eating protein with those kind of carbs fills you up so you eat less of those carbs.

I aloow myself to ignore the carb/glycemic index/glycemic load data once a week. I take Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Alpha Lipoic Acid and green tea capsule with every meal. I always take E Cava 2x a day with breakfast and again with dinner.

I've been consistently losing fat the past few months and the one cheat day a week hasn't hurt me significantly. If you want to lose weight, you may want to try to adopt that kind of eating plan where you just have no rules, but use your supplements, one day a week. If you're strict the other 6 days, you're going to lose weight and burn off the fat even with minimal exercise.

During the week when I'm being strict, I try not to eat any carbs that go above 40 on the glycemic index and 10 on the glycemic load. The only time I'll let something slide is to have some quinoa with a meal, but I watch my portion on that. Quinoa is 53 on the GI and 13 on the GL. Not terrible. I read another book that said keeping under 55 on the glycemic index will help with weight loss, but 40 seems to work best for me the majority of the week.

That said, on my cheat day, I'll eat pizza, risotto, potatoes and let sugar in like in ice cream or other dairy like cheese. It causes a speed bump in your weight loss plans that is usually resolved 48 hours after you get back on the strict part of the diet.

And yes, I use those supplements with every meal including when I'm eating strict.

I've been on a diet like yours hadrion for many months last year. I did lose weight and I had a cheat day once or twice a week without any problems. I have since came off that diet and I want to go back to having half the week eating normal food and not focus so much on carb reduction and looking at the GI. Is it not possible for me to maintain my weight while eating what I like whenever I like as long as I take the supplements discussed here?

I agree, the calorie in calorie out thing is nonsense. Its not that the laws of thermodynamics aren't working here, but it just isn't he whole picture. Obviously in terms of energy, eating more than you are using will cause storage. But we know a calorie isn't a calorie isn't a calorie.

Want to prove it? Consider this example (and I know it isn't realistic nutritionally). Put one person on a diet of only 2000 calories of bread or rice for one month. Then put another on a diet of 2000 calories from meat for the same length of time. Now, its the same amount of calories, so given the same physical activity level you'd think the results would be the same in terms of weight gain. We know that won't be so. You have to consider the hormonal effects of the food type.

Telling someone to eat less that they expend just isn't enough. I could very well take my BMR, subtract 300 hundred, and consume that number of calories from high sugar, fast digesting food sources and still put on fat. Granted, the weight will come from some where, probably muscle mass. And here we get into the idea that losing weight just isn't about the number either, we have to consider composition.

goten574 wrote:I've been on a diet like yours hadrion for many months last year. I did lose weight and I had a cheat day once or twice a week without any problems. I have since came off that diet and I want to go back to having half the week eating normal food and not focus so much on carb reduction and looking at the GI. Is it not possible for me to maintain my weight while eating what I like whenever I like as long as I take the supplements discussed here?

goten - it's trial and error. I would try to reincorporate those foods, but monitor your total grams of carbs and see what the scale says/does and how your body looks. Some people can just eat those kind of foods and gain no weight. Others aren't so lucky. The supplements aren't going to absolve a consistently poor diet. I wish it was that easy, but it's not. You can take all the alpha lipoic acid you want and if you eat a large pizza and a box of cookies and wash it down with a milkshake each day, you're going to end up paying for it unless you have a metabolism that allows you to eat 3000 calories a day no matter what.

I took the supplements and I didn't see results until I cleaned up my diet like I have and started doing HIIT training. Diet is 80%, training is 15% and I think the supplements are about 5% of the picture for myself and people I know.

My best advice would be eat small potions of those carbs. Eat what a serving is on the box so you can calculate the grams of carbs you're taking in with everything you put in your mouth. I know a guy at the gym I go to who allows himself 200 grams of Carbs in any form per day. He works out like a madman and that seems to work for him. I think if he stopped his training, that could catch up with him even if he took supplements. You might be able to get away 150grams a day. You might be able to get away with more. The only way you'll know is to reintroduce the foods and weigh yourself and measure yourself with a tape measures and see if the dietary changes affect you.

I know my ultimate goal is to be able to turn my weekends into cheat weekends where I don't binge, but I don't watch so closely what I eat. I'm not there yet and I may never get there. Some of us don't have the luck in that regard. My 6 days on 1 day off is working really well though.

hadrion wrote:

goten574 wrote:I've been on a diet like yours hadrion for many months last year. I did lose weight and I had a cheat day once or twice a week without any problems. I have since came off that diet and I want to go back to having half the week eating normal food and not focus so much on carb reduction and looking at the GI. Is it not possible for me to maintain my weight while eating what I like whenever I like as long as I take the supplements discussed here?

goten - it's trial and error. I would try to reincorporate those foods, but monitor your total grams of carbs and see what the scale says/does and how your body looks. Some people can just eat those kind of foods and gain no weight. Others aren't so lucky. The supplements aren't going to absolve a consistently poor diet. I wish it was that easy, but it's not. You can take all the alpha lipoic acid you want and if you eat a large pizza and a box of cookies and wash it down with a milkshake each day, you're going to end up paying for it unless you have a metabolism that allows you to eat 3000 calories a day no matter what.

I took the supplements and I didn't see results until I cleaned up my diet like I have and started doing HIIT training. Diet is 80%, training is 15% and I think the supplements are about 5% of the picture for myself and people I know.

My best advice would be eat small potions of those carbs. Eat what a serving is on the box so you can calculate the grams of carbs you're taking in with everything you put in your mouth. I know a guy at the gym I go to who allows himself 200 grams of Carbs in any form per day. He works out like a madman and that seems to work for him. I think if he stopped his training, that could catch up with him even if he took supplements. You might be able to get away 150grams a day. You might be able to get away with more. The only way you'll know is to reintroduce the foods and weigh yourself and measure yourself with a tape measures and see if the dietary changes affect you.

I know my ultimate goal is to be able to turn my weekends into cheat weekends where I don't binge, but I don't watch so closely what I eat. I'm not there yet and I may never get there. Some of us don't have the luck in that regard. My 6 days on 1 day off is working really well though.

I thought the reason carbs were bad was because they introduced a insulin spike and I thought if I could control those spikes via supplementation, I would be fine with my weight. It appears I am wrong on this. Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it.

I don't think "bad" is the right term. Carbs arent bad, insulin isnt bad, etc. Diets high in carbs that were rich in insolulable starch and fiber lowered incidence of metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance (this is actually in the harvard school statement in the CS blog post which villifies fiber, he misread it when quoting it out of context lol). It's all context, and proportion.

I wouldnt run around eating bags full of bleached flour and refined sugar, but I also don't think carbs are themselves bad.

All the posts about carbs and stuff, sure refined carbs. But what about carbs from fruit and veg? Lots of fruitarian's eat a lot more calories than maintenance and do well fat-loss wise.

There are a whole lot of factors present in fruit that cause it to effect blood sugar differently than other refined
carbohydrates like bread and pasta. Don't be scared of fruit, and don't be scared of carbs. Be scared of some carbs. I don't care what anyone tells you, glucose is the body's preferential fuel source. Yes, it can enter ketosis but there is a reason this is a survival mechanism that people experiencing starvation enter. Its an evolutionary survival mechanism. Just because the body is capable of doing it doesn't mean we should. It puts stress on the body. Ketosis can be effective in the short term for cutting body fat quickly and resensitizing yourself to leptin. That's it. Doing it long term is ignorant. There is a reason the body will break down muscle tissue to convert it into glucose.
If anything, I believe our carb intake should be more seasonal, with a higher proportion of fat in winter.

We need to get comfortable with how to eat carbohydrate and get comfortable with insulin. Its a double edged sword.

He's talking about pasta which is a refined carb here. I'm not talking about veggie carbs. We're talking grains and sugar basically.