Great Article on Sex, Prolactin, and Dopamine

Hi All,

Check out this article. It's worth the read for those who aren't familiar with this relationship between dopamine, prolactin, sex, and other addictive processes.

http://www.reuniting.info/science/prolactin_sex_libido

Important Points:
- Dopamine and prolactin are antagonistic, when one is high the other is low.
- Things that tend to spike dopamine in the short term usually result in a dopamine crash
and for a varying period of time, prolactin is high.
- After sex, this period of high prolactin can last for weeks at a time.
- Addictive behaviors have the same effect. Chronically elevating dopamine results in
downregulation of dopamine receptors, leading to imbalances of both dopamine and
prolactin.
- Essentially, we've got to get our dopamine in check.

The article itself cited some studies, but I think it would be worth doing some further research on all of this, particularly because symptoms of high prolactin tend to be mistaken for other stress hormone imbalances, like cortisol. Anxiety and all of the other typical symptoms of low dopamine are all correlated with high prolactin. Because prolactin exerts effects on the hypothalamus and pituitary, elevated prolactin can result in changes of other sex hormones as well, like testosterone.

The UofM website has a section of prolactinomas (prolactin secreting tumors of the pituitary) that says excess prolactin causes the pituitary to produce less LH and FSH, leading to lower blood testosterone levels. High prolactin can also be caused by an excess of estrogen or poor thyroid function.

This gives some more weight to the arguments about monitoring how often we have sex and masturbate. It also points to another negative aspect and reason behind addictive behavior. Could we possibly use supplements like mucuna pruriens and chasteberry to help modulate this process, while also aiming to balance estrogen and optimize thyroid?

I've read that article before and recently been limiting masturbation, with minor success. It's not been long enough to mention anything yet really.

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/ Is an interesting site to have a look round if you haven't already.

TooYoung,

Awesome site sir. Thanks for that. God knows, I was exposed to pornography at a young age and still feel it is a problem for me, despite the fact I don't use it nearly as often as I once did. While on the surface it seems fairly innocuous (its become a joke in modern culture particularly surrounding young men's use of it) but I really think it has an insidious effect on the mind, particularly towards our views on sex and on the processes I talked about above. Men learning about sexuality from pornography has become a rampant problem.

Yeah, its personal and we get uncomfortable talking about it and find it to be an embarrassing subject so we avoid it, but I think the problem is alot more prevalent than anyone would like to say. Its playing at a very addictive process in the brain, as outlined in that first article: after sex with one woman, dopamine drops, prolactin rises and we tend to avoid that particular female at least for a certain period; the only thing that has proven in studies to lower that prolactin and boost dopamine again is arousal by a different female. So what could it be about porn that has this effect, oh perhaps that one can become aroused by a different woman each day (despite its not being a real encounter, the mental stimulation is there). Its just a habit that is absolutely driven by these hormonal changes and can really skew one's sexual behavior.

If you got the feeling that I hate pornography, you're right. It has nothing to do with any morality issue or issue about the subject of sex, it has everything to do with the porn industry knowing exactly what they're doing subtly to the minds of the viewers.

100% Agree with everything you said. Another site to check out is
http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/

A large number of people abstaining for 90 days from porn and masturbation, some very inspiring testimonials on there. I am trying the 90 days at the moment. Will report back here when I'm done and benefits.

Tooyoung,

Thanks again for the link man. Much appreciated. Both of these sites are pretty inspiring,
and the anonymity of the internet kind of sheds some light on this silent epidemic.

But again, our society has created a very rigid sexual role for the male. Men put the bulk of their masculinity into their dicks. Look at male's sexual identity in the media. Constant jokes about erectile dysfunction. Always the focus on the horniness of the male, he always wants it, if he doesn't he isn't a real male. Its almost like an animal. A woman is asked about the size of her man's penis, and if a woman loves her man she feels compelled to exagerate her answer to ensure her man looks masculine. In the end, our dicks become our manhood and we become fixated with it. And then when we start to experience the normal sexual decline of aging, well you aren't a man unless you get that blue pill haha. Pornography has infiltrated society, whether you are seeking it out on the computer or not.

My point in saying that is, its this rigid sexuality that stops men from talking about anything to do with their sexuality in a negative light. Remember, if everything and anything to do with their dicks or their sex lives aren't running perfectly on high gear, well they must not be man enough right? Its what makes men so embarassed about talking about these things. Its exposing a vulnerability in what society deems as the biggest reason for your being a man. Me? I say fuck it, I don't care if anyone knows that things aren't perfect all of the time.

But I'm off-topic as hell. We can get back to hormone talk if anyone has any other information on dopamine/prolactin they'd like to share. After a period of abstinence, I'll expect to see not only changes in my psychological well being, but also physical changes in my body as well. I can remember a period way way back in high school where I had put on weight, and after getting together with a girl who moved into town, I quit masturbating for about 3 months. The desire just went away. During that period I lost about 40 pounds and a shit load of body fat without changing anything else about my diet or exercise habits. Merely observational, but stands out to me nonetheless.

Again I agree with everything you said.
I agree, the internet makes it easier to speak to people about it. I tried speaking to a friend about this topic, I thought avoiding the porn and limiting masturbation would greatly benefit him but he just laughed it off and claimed he doesn't have a problem and masturbation doesn't give him any problems.

How long abstinent are you? How long are you aiming to avoid it for?

Your anecdote about weight loss was interesting, do you have any hunches as to why that would have happened? Being outdoors more, instead of being inside and masturbating?

Tooyoung,

I don't think so. That is why I found that whole sequence so surprising. In high school I played football, and during the season I was practicing almost 4 hrs. per day. This amounted to quite a bit of exercise. In the off-season it was all about resistance training and sprint cardio. I was doing resistance training 4 times per week and HIIT cardio three times weekly. While freshman year I wasn't as committed as this, I was committed to this type of schedule with almost complete consistency for the remaining three years. I was never too picky with my diet but I ate fairly cleanly.

This weight loss occurred junior year during the first two months of summer. I was not altering my training, which was the same as it had been the year prior. I didn't alter my diet. I wasn't outside any more or less frequently than I had been in years prior either. It would appear that altering my behavior with masturbation was the only element that changed. Perhaps there were hormonal changes that occurred when I "fell in love" (haha) with the girl I had mentioned, but other than that nothing else changed. Which of these two had the more major effect is almost impossible to tell. But I can't make myself experience that new love passion on a whim... I can alter the other habit. So that's what I'm going to do. Haven't done it yet, but I'm going to start with the 90 day challenge you mentioned and see how it goes. Its interesting to note that the pattern of my weight gain and mood when I wasn't healthy were all consistent with hyperprolactinemia, and despite my rigorous physical output during the year prior to the weight loss, the weight wasn't budging.

Part of this conversation is making me feel like those trashy guys who sit around on their porches at 45 talking about their glory days, hahaha. But this is for the sake of science...
['___']

great find anthonyspancer54!

I feel the more we try to micromanage every single hormone in the body and keep them all in balance all the time the more we increase our anxiety and distress. It simply can't be done for any period of time. It seems like this in every area. Even in the hair area, one thing will have a benefit on one pathway of hairloss and it will have a detriment on another. Example: omega 3 reduces inflammitory processes and helps to balance the prostaglandins, but it lowers sex hormone binding globulin. Green tea is antioxidant, but it decreases angiogenesis. Etc. Its the same with food. As a renaissance medical scientist noted, the poison is entirely in the dose. Nothing itself is good or bad. It's all context and degree. The problem is asceticism doesn't work for most people. By swearing something off entirely you will think about it more, and eventually you will fail. I see this as a principle of tao. Working too hard to do something often brings about a failure or a counterreaction. This is why the chinese say make all things happen by not trying to do anything. Obviously this is somewhat metaphoric and not to be taken literally. Moderation works best in general, though even as a rule this can get you into trouble in some areas. Just limit the masturbation to a few times a week, maybe once a week, not every day. Of course to an addict this could pose a problem, and perhaps asceticism is the best, at least for some time. Then there is the hormoeisis angle. Some stressors and things which tax the body can be beneficial in moderation. This is one of the areas I think guys like Ray Peat end up getting things wrong because of the asceticism they advocate. You'll see him hating on intense training, when we now know that despite the stress on the body during training or excersise there is a long term benefit in terms of longevity inducing factors (increase teleomerase due to long term endurance training for one example) not to mention increased resistance to spikes in internal stress producing factors. I can only imagine similar is true for sex. Sex has definite positives when engaged in moderately.

I've gone weeks probably up to a month or two without masturbation. I've never noted huge benefits. However masturbating excessively I definitely notice detriments. I find it depletes the body, induces lethargy, increases the amount of time you want to sleep, etc. Porn is definitely a time sink. You can spend hours viewing porn and you arent accomplishing yourself or bettering yourself or the world in anyway. The internet only intensifies it with all the numerous outlets, out there, like reddit gonewild, and even internet dating sites. Massive time sinks, with little actual benefits. Real world socializing just goes so much farther, and actually increases your chances at meaningful sexual encouters wheras the cyber stuff really doesnt.

I don't find porn adversely affects views towards sex. I suppose it depends on the kind of porn one watches, or how seriously one takes whatever degredation might occur in it. A lot of the stuff that occurs in porn is particularly asinine and obviously staged / bullshit. Like how many guys do you know who brag about doing dumb shit like giving their girl necklace of pearls because they saw it in a porno. Some of the most annoying conversation to bear is machismo idiots boasting about sex moves theyve done with women. It's like stfu BROS, you arent as cool as you think you are lol

LawofThelema,

I agree with a lot of what you said. There is duality in almost everything, especially in the human body. But moreso about the mental factors, something about focusing so intensely on avoiding something tends to bring that result to you. I noticed that when I really became focused and stressed about my hair loss is when it started to accelerate faster and faster. Now obviously, I have absolutely no scientific basis to prove that had anything to do with my thoughts about it. It could easily have been due to the increase in stress. But there are so many examples of other situations where we tend to focus on how much we don't want a certain outcome, but it tends to bring us that outcome. Now, this could be self-fulfilling prophecy, but sometimes it really feels like the law of attraction (stuff I normally scoff at) is at work. My logical mind laughs at it, but you tend to see things go most easily for the people who don't worry about them at all. I can also totally agree that after my initial inclination to start trying to control my hair loss, my committment escalated to the point that I was obsessed with trying to control every hormone. What was the result? More stress and poorer health. I think thats a fair representation of where I was, and at this point, its become more about trying to find an overall balance all around and simplify. I think if I can do that nature might do more of the work than I could ever hope to. I mean, did our ancestors poke around with nutritional supplements trying to up this hormone and lower this one? Their lifestyle and environmental exposure did all of the regulating. I'm not trying to knock down anything this forum is about, its helped me immensely, and I think supplementation is important. I guess what I'm saying is if all of the most important priorities are there, these nit-picky items become just that, nit-picky, focusing on the factors that account for the .01%

All I know is that I had my prolactin levels tested a while back and they were normal, and I wacked it 3x/day so I'm no longer concerned about it.