supplements for cavities, CS?

Hi CS,

I am trying and summing up from all the knowledge on this forum and the internet what weapons i can use to try and re-mineralize some tooth decay that is really getting me worried...

at home, I already have a few bottles of beta-carotene from Safeways and astaxanthin from VitaminShoppe... those should hopefully cover w.r.t. vitamin A...

then I was thinking of getting K2 from orthonutrition decalcify and Alpha Lipoic Acid from orthonutrition stabilized R-lipoic acid. would the krill oil help too? because i have been on fish oil so far, and fish oil doesn't seem like it has helped...

then, here's what i have already thrown into my iHerb cart:

Nutricology, Magnesium Chloride Liquid, 8 fl oz (236 ml) (ARG-50320)
Christopher's Original Formula, Herbal Tooth and Gum Powder, 2 oz (CRO-89318)
Doctor's Best, Best Delta Gold Tocotrienols, 125, 125 mg, 30 Softgel Capsules (DRB-00226)
Doctor's Best, Best Vitamin D3, 5000 IU, 180 Softgel Capsules (DRB-00218)
Doctor's Best, Best Benfotiamine 150, 150 mg, 120 Veggie Caps (DRB-00129)
Source Naturals, Metabolic C, 500 mg, 180 Capsules (SNS-02203)

and on alternate days:

Doctor's Best, Calcium Bone Maker Complex, 180 Capsules (DRB-00245)
Doctor's Best, Strontium Bone Maker, 340 mg, 120 Veggie Caps (DRB-00172)

what do you think about these picks?

am i missing something from the list?

thank you very much in advance!!!
-magic-

hi

http://healthyfixx.com/health/11/how-to-prevent-and-reverse-cavities

thanks AboDi, but that's actually the very first page i consulted, so it should hopefully be covered by my list above. I just wanted to receive some blessing/feedback before pulling the trigger ;-)

Seems like you have the minerals pretty covered, but a few ancillary suggestions if I may. A good cayenne tincture will bring blood to the gums and teeth like you wouldn't believe. Dr. Shultz makes a good one, although expensive. I make my own with organic habaneros and organic vodka, I can't seem to get it as powerful as Shultz's, but it gets the job done much more frugally (~50$ for at least 10oz all said). I use it in a waterpik, and apply it directly with a cotton swab. I try to time it when the things I want to be reaching my gum/teeth will be readily available in my bloodstream.

Another thing I recommend is non flouride MIPaste, though only for brief runs. It has a few things you don't want in your system, but it has been the most direct and quick way to strengthen teeth when things are dire that I've found. Of course its best if you take care of any underlying infections in the tooth first off, but this stuff does help in a span of 2-3 months religious use to get that enamel beefed up.

Hope this helps.

magic_gro - Would suggest you use pre-formed vitamin A, not beta-carotene.

thanks, Caustic, will get vitamin A too then!

is there something that is not useful in the list and that could be dropped?

is calcium gonna hurt my hair by any chance?

thank you!!!
-magic-

magic_gro - Calcium and strontium compete for each other, and calcium is only needed during development (infant through adolescence), beyond that extra calcium is not much benefit.

So taking the D3, Strontium, Magnesium is good. However, you can probably drop the calcium complex.

No harm in taking it provided you have some magnesium & K2, and stomach acid is in good order.

Yeah, and this stuff rocks. I dont even brush any more.

http://www.sunfood.com/gum-joy-oil.html

Aboriginals and native tribes did not have tooth brushes (Weston Price et al) - but they had oils and essential oils and plants....

M

CS , can you suggest a vitamin A supplement and the proper dose .. I read some negative things

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/03/16/warning-new-proof-confirms-if-you-take-this-supplement-vitamin-d-will-not-work-as-well.aspx

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/01/03/why-vitamin-a-may-not-be-as-useful-or-harmless-as-you-thought.aspx

what do you think , also is it beneficial for a former accutane user ?

AboDi - Vitamin A would be recommended for former accutane users. Just as long as you have enough Vitamin D, shouldn't be a worry.

Not sure about dosage.

Mastery wrote: Yeah, and this stuff rocks. I dont even brush any more.

http://www.sunfood.com/gum-joy-oil.html

Aboriginals and native tribes did not have tooth brushes (Weston Price et al) - but they had oils and essential oils and plants....

M

Thanks for the link Mastery. I am going to try this.

i've been taking the following day by day for three and a half months, and my cavities have gotten worse...

magic_gro wrote:
K2 from orthonutrition decalcify
Alpha Lipoic Acid from orthonutrition stabilized R-lipoic acid.
krill oil
Doctor's Best, Best Delta Gold Tocotrienols, 125, 125 mg, 30 Softgel Capsules (DRB-00226)
Doctor's Best, Best Vitamin D3, 5000 IU, 180 Softgel Capsules (DRB-00218)
Doctor's Best, Best Benfotiamine 150, 150 mg, 120 Veggie Caps (DRB-00129)
Source Naturals, Metabolic C, 500 mg, 180 Capsules (SNS-02203)
Doctor's Best, Strontium Bone Maker, 340 mg, 120 Veggie Caps (DRB-00172)

i haven't been taking any calcium at all.

what am I doing wrong in your opinion?

thank you!

I think you should stop eating sugar. Even if it is fed directly in the stomach with a tube (it does not touch your teeth) sugar reverses the normal dentin fluid transport:
http://www.multiplekineticsystems.com/why-do-i-still-get-cavities/

This is related to root canal toxicity. In dead teeth, there is no fluid to "wash" the microscopic dentin tubules, so bacteria can grow in there. In people with high sugar diets the normal fluid transport (from inside the tooth thourgh the dentin channels to outside (in the mouth)) is reversed (from the mouth with bacteria through the dentid channels in the pulp (the inner par of the tooth)).
This is what I understood, I am not 100% sure about it.

http://www.dr-jacques-imbeau.com/dentalcaries.html

From the same site about root canals: http://www.dr-jacques-imbeau.com/ocalexic.html

mihai: i haven't been eating anything sweet in all this time. and i never craved it in my life, so i wasn't eating much of it before either.

can too much iodine (100mg/die as 130 mg of KI) deplete the teeth of fluoride?

can too much strontium deplete the teeth of calcium?

can R/O water be the culprit? i even brush my teeth with it...

thanks!

Fluoride is poison, it makes teeth very hard, which means it makes them more brittle. If iodine helps remove fluoride from teeth (and I do not know if it will), it is a good thing.

Strontium should not be taken with calcium, because they will compete for each other. Take them separately.

Magic -

How is your sleep? Do you have vivid dreams? Is your saliva very watery? To me it sounds like you're under-mineralized or too acidic. Be glad you ordered all that IB77, I think if you take those and drop everything else except the vit-D and C you're golden. The R/O water is empty and requires processing, so your body is stealing minerals to use it.

Just my opinion here, I'm not sure something called "decalcify" is a good thing in regard to bone health and structures such as teeth. Vascular system yes, bone substances no (unless we're talking co-factors of course).

I'm healing a cavity as well, and it has stabilized, and rarely has dull pain since switching to spring water, and a majority alkaline diet.

CS: i am not taking any calcium at all. i am just taking strontium. is it a bad idea not to take calcium?

also, do you think swirling something like this in my mouth would help? http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Life-Calcium-Magnesium-Phosphorus-Liquid-32-fl-oz-960-ml/24020?at=0

can i take it if i have amalgam fillings?

should I drop decalcify and K2 ?

i remember one of these mornings i was aware i was dreaming and above all i was surprised that i was in the sequel of a dream of some previous day... and in the dream there was something amazing... i don't remember what now, i should ask a colleague i told about this that very day... but i was amazed that in the dream i could come up with something like that... while dreaming...

what has this got to do with cavities?

thanks!!!

Smurfy wrote:Magic -

How is your sleep? Do you have vivid dreams? Is your saliva very watery? To me it sounds like you're under-mineralized or too acidic. Be glad you ordered all that IB77, I think if you take those and drop everything else except the vit-D and C you're golden. The R/O water is empty and requires processing, so your body is stealing minerals to use it.

Just my opinion here, I'm not sure something called "decalcify" is a good thing in regard to bone health and structures such as teeth. Vascular system yes, bone substances no (unless we're talking co-factors of course).

I'm healing a cavity as well, and it has stabilized, and rarely has dull pain since switching to spring water, and a majority alkaline diet.

An alkaline diet is a misnomer, and actually pro-calcification.

Most of the alternative health community have been preaching alkalinity, yet there is no scientific basis for it.

It's been proven wrong many times. Our digestive tract is full of lactic acid bacteria, which is 90% of our digestion.
Also hydrochloric acid is of course very acid and it is needed to assimilate minerals.

The true proper pH for the GI track is closer to 5.5.

Here's a little info, but only touches on some areas: http://www.immortalhair.org/apps/blog/show/1769897-kidney-stones-alkalinity

Alkaline water got its reputation by a backwards process, and all the credit goes for the wrong reason. When the
original alkaline water was made, through ionization it is loaded with electrons and the end product is often, but not
always very alkaline--unfortunately, the benefits were thought to be attributed to the alkalinity, however that isn't the
case and probably the way all the misinformation about alkalinity continues to this day. It's the electrons that matter, not the pH. However, eating a diet with a high pH is not conducive to a healthy digestive system.

A pro-alkaline diet can cause one to be more susceptible to mineral deposits. Some people to thrive on this diet for a while, so this may seem curious at first.

The proof is that strict vegans (those who shun cheese and milk) hit a wall after a few years.

Also the GI tract has little effect on blood pH, but that's another topic.

Just want to say that a pro-alkaline diet is more pro-calcification. If you want to remineralize teeth, the
very rare nutrients, especially Vitamin K2, Boron, Vitamin D and Magnesium are needed. The de-generating
foods for teeth are fruits and fruit juices, especially for some people. Different ancestral types (or metabolic types)
fare differently on fruit, but it's something to be careful of.

A fruit smoothy is extremely bad for teeth, yet all the health shops sell them.

Calcium is something that should be avoided, except during development and growth periods in life. Vitamin D will insure that any calcium from the diet is adequately absorbed, and the pituitary gland insures calcium status. Magnesium increases calcium utilization by 1600%. It is okay to take calcium in foods, or if magnesium is taken, but it's not necessary and if no-co factors are taken it can actually create a problem.

Would be better to take only the strontium, not the calcium, although strontium is optional. The phosphorous level is governed by how effectively your blood sugar is managed. If you prevent elevation of insulin, you'll have phosphorous in the correct level and the fluid flow of the teeth will travel in the proper direction.

K2 insures that calcium is being deposited into teeth and bones, not the skin or the arteries.

Omega-3 is a co-factors for all of these fat soluble nutrients.

CS - I understand how acidity vs. alkalinity works, hence why largely meat eating is great for blood circulation, and why vegans prematurely age (and look older, generally). I wasn't stating an opinion however. My former diet was 95% acidic ash food, and since last summer, has been 60% acid 40% alkaline. My teeth feel stronger, I sleep better, more energy, less anxiety. Though you could argue this isn't due to pH, I've noticed just balancing out the pH level of foods has done very very well for me. By the way, I don't advocate an acid/alkaline diet under 50/50. The people I know like that aren't well.

last night and this morning i popped a strontium citrate cap open over my troubled teeth.

as soon as you add a bit of water (necessary not to breath the powder in which is very annoying) the strontium assumes what i would call a dead corpse taste. on the bottle of Doctor's Best Strontium Bone Maker I read "suitable for vegetarians" so i feel reassured it's not ground bones i am swishing in my mouth (but then I wonder: where do they get their strontium from???).

I also had ordered 5 pounds of Monosodium Phospate ("apple flavored") from KV supply. Unfortunately it tastes horribly strong and i haven't been able to take it

it would be nice if i could turn the strontium and monosodium phosphate into a nice gel/paste and add some decent flavour to it and leave it on my troubled teeth. maybe i could add xylitol to fix the taste and improve the acidity?

any idea how to make a paste out of it?

why does nobody market some chewing gums with xylitol, strontium and monosodium phosphate??? why?

Smurfy wrote:CS - I understand how acidity vs. alkalinity works, hence why largely meat eating is great for blood circulation, and why vegans prematurely age (and look older, generally). I wasn't stating an opinion however. My former diet was 95% acidic ash food, and since last summer, has been 60% acid 40% alkaline. My teeth feel stronger, I sleep better, more energy, less anxiety. Though you could argue this isn't due to pH, I've noticed just balancing out the pH level of foods has done very very well for me. By the way, I don't advocate an acid/alkaline diet under 50/50. The people I know like that aren't well.

Smurfy - I didn't mean to go overboard on the alkaline explanation, nevertheless wanted to state that mineralization has nothing to do with it.

Based on how maximum mineralization works, vitamin A and D and K improve this process, probably because they affect the same receptors RXR. The process of laying down calcium into tissue is largely vitamin K dependent.

magic_gro - Dr. Hal Huggins has stated (A dentist and expert in blood chemistry) that adding monosodium phosphate is much like pouring water into a leaking balloon. It helps a little, but balancing phosphorous levels is easier by insuring that insulin is not over shot. Maintain glucose balance is key. My cheating method, because I love to eat bad food now and again is fat and water soluble antioxidants (Green tea, E-Cava, Lipoic acid).

Strontium and other minerals enter the teeth from the blood supply beneath.

so, supplementing with calcium is detrimental. why is strontium ok? it sits on the same column of the periodic table of elements, so i would assume it would have the same behaviour as calcium both in its good and bad sides... i am puzzled...

thank you!

Excess calcium consumption is associated with aging, mostly because there are generally few mineral consumed which are designed to balance and regulate it. The parathyroid gland regulates calcium, however there are no glands to regulate magnesium, or other co-factor nutrients.

Too much intracellular cellular calcium cause aging. The co-factors are far more important. There has been a calcium "paradox" for a long time; that those who consume higher amounts of calcium is associated with higher incidences of osteoporosis and the opposite is true for those who consume the lowest levels.

CS - I know synthetic forms of calcium have shown to increase the risk of cancer and cause all sorts of problems. My question is I understand the immense importance of magnesium, D, K2, omega 3s in relation to calcium metabolism, but isn't food source calcium also vital for bone health, especially in elderly adults? If the body is trying to leach calcium from the bones, then wouldn't it stand to reason that the body wants extra calcium?

I know ever since I began drinking kefir nearly two years ago, my finger nails have become super strong with zero ridges in them. My teeth are a lot stronger too. Of course I also do get adequate amounts of all the co-factors needed.

Silverlin - Osteoporosis is usually caused by either a lack of co-factors or a lack of hydrochloric acid, which in turn also causes a protein deficiency (one third of bone is protein) and also an inability to release sufficient growth hormone via the pituitary, which is necessary for bone growth.

Resistance exercise does help promote more growth hormone, and that definitely helps too.

If there is low dietary calcium, the parathyroid gland will (assuming there is sufficient vitamin D present), absorb the maximal amount of calcium from the intestines, and some of that could be reconstituted from resorbed bone (torn down).

Bones are always turning over for proper remodeling. Bone strength is usually overlooked, in favor of bone density, so now days, medical screening is trying to warn elderly about osteopenia, which is totally fine for their age. K2 will increase the strength of the bone, much more important than density.

Natural sourced calcium is fine, although it's not so good if it comes from pasteurized products. The co-factors are much for vital in the elderly, Calcium is more critical for growing stages in life.

One interesting "paradox" about osteoporosis is that those who have it, are much more likely to have plenty of calcium--but only in the wrong place, the skin and arteries, so it's really misappropriated calcium deposition.