Why Biotin with AlA?

IH, I saw on your website you say it is a must to take biotin if taking ALA. Why is this?

cassanova - Lipoic acid and biotin have a similar structure in terms of pyruvate carboxylase and beta -methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase utilization.

So if one were to take Lipoic acid regularly without supplementing with biotin, Lipoic acid will become dominant with liver carboxylase activities and hence biotin levels will be depleted. A biotin shortage will result in hair loss without question, eventually.

Fortunately, in studies and as well as practice, biotin used in conjunction with lipoic acid shows completely normal carboyxylase activity.

CausticSymmetry wrote:cassanova - Lipoic acid and biotin have a similar structure in terms of pyruvate carboxylase and beta -methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase utilization.

So if one were to take Lipoic acid regularly without supplementing with biotin, Lipoic acid will become dominant with liver carboxylase activities and hence biotin levels will be depleted. A biotin shortage will result in hair loss without question, eventually.

Fortunately, in studies and as well as practice, biotin used in conjunction with lipoic acid shows completely normal carboyxylase activity.

Hey CS - do you take biotin every time you take ALA or just once a day?

scottyc33 - I use this stuff, which contains biotin in it. But even so, I take extra biotin on top of it. High dose biotin has its own advantages, so that's mainly way I do it.

can you take lipoic acid on its own without Acetyl l carnitine?

cassanova - Okay, just to make sure, you do mean Acetyl L-Carnitine (ALC), not biotin right?

Yes you can take Lipoic acid without ALC.

CS - You said :

"Lipoic acid and biotin have a similar structure in terms of pyruvate carboxylase and beta -methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase utilization.

So if one were to take Lipoic acid regularly without supplementing with biotin, Lipoic acid will become dominant with liver carboxylase activities and hence biotin levels will be depleted. A biotin shortage will result in hair loss without question, eventually."


My question is : 5 mg a day is quite a high dose....so, can't biotin become dominant upon Lipoic acid ? i mean if they have a similar structure in terms of pyruvate carboxylase and beta -methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase utilization....

europe - I first heard about Lipoic acid depleting biotin from a site with user experiences, then I found research supporting that anecdote. As far as biotin being dominant, it's very unlikely--probably impossible.

Was this debunked by CS a while back, or do I remember wrongly (about needing to take biotin when usin ALA)?

coq10 and carnitine, allegedly, help the body produce biotin

"The presence of the CoQ10 makes your body recognize the L-carnitine as a protein, which jump starts the production of biotin." I am not sure how true that is.

secondly, carnitine may not need to be taken.

lysine , which is very important for hair, also produces carnitine

virtua_ wrote:Was this debunked by CS a while back, or do I remember wrongly (about needing to take biotin when usin ALA)?

There's nothing wrong with taking biotin, but it doesn't get depleted like originally proposed in a study.

CausticSymmetry wrote:

virtua_ wrote:Was this debunked by CS a while back, or do I remember wrongly (about needing to take biotin when usin ALA)?

There's nothing wrong with taking biotin, but it doesn't get depleted like originally proposed in a study.

Yes, that's what I meant!

I take bioton in a B complex, but was unsure if I had to take huge doses alongside now that I've started testing out how I do on ALA.

Thanks!

Hi CS,
  I supplement with Jarrow Formulas Acetyl L-Carnitine Arginate + Alpha Lipoic Acid twice a day, ALA is 100mg per capsule. I also supplement with Thorne Research, B-Complex #12, 60 Veggie Caps once a day, they contains Biotin 25mcg per capsule. Is that sufficient Biotin not to be depleted by ALA?

Thanks

Kazbar wrote:Hi CS,
  I supplement with Jarrow Formulas Acetyl L-Carnitine Arginate + Alpha Lipoic Acid twice a day, ALA is 100mg per capsule. I also supplement with Thorne Research, B-Complex #12, 60 Veggie Caps once a day, they contains Biotin 25mcg per capsule. Is that sufficient Biotin not to be depleted by ALA?

Thanks

CS just said that he no longer believes that biotin is depleted by ALA.

Thanks Liberator.

CausticSymmetry wrote:scottyc33 - I use this stuff, which contains biotin in it.  But even so, I take extra biotin on top of it.  High dose biotin has its own advantages, so that's mainly way I do it.

Hi CS, what dosage of Biotin do you take?