Re: "the fat you eat is the fat you wear"

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:38 am

http://books.google.com/books?id=_MVwKoDvcj4C&dq=eat+fat+lose+fat&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=OvNqTLjhB4O78gbu8ODdBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:40 am

You are ignoring the elephant in the room: no one has ever reversed diabetes, heart-disease or prostate-enlargement on a high-fat/low-carb diet. Not one doctor, not even Dr. Atkins could show it could be done, however Dr. Esselstyn, Barnand and Ornish have.

What about every culture that eats animal fats where these disease don't exist?

what about every culture that doesnt eat a vegan / vegetarian diet and yet disease is rare.

misterE Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:48 am

blackjack wrote:Why is it the last 25 years we have been bombarded by low fat everything but yet obesity has skyrocketed over the past 25 years.

Because the majority of Americans don't eat a low-fat diet (and are lazy). Would you consider fast-food a low-fat diet? Of course not, but most Americans especially teenagers eat lots and lots of fast-food, pizza, eggs, cheese, fried-chicken, cheeseburgers, ice-cream, steak etc. You don't see them eating oatmeal, sweet-potatoes or beans and rice do you? Of course not, who would want to cook and eat beans and rice when you can get a pre-made cheeseburger for a dollar?

scottyc33 Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:05 pm

blackjack wrote:
You are ignoring the elephant in the room: no one has ever reversed diabetes, heart-disease or prostate-enlargement on a high-fat/low-carb diet. Not one doctor, not even Dr. Atkins could show it could be done, however Dr. Esselstyn, Barnand and Ornish have.

What about every culture that eats animal fats where these disease don't exist?

what about every culture that doesnt eat a vegan / vegetarian diet and yet disease is rare.

MisterE - how do you explain this?

TheFunkyStumpfighter Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:14 pm

You are ignoring the elephant in the room: no one has ever reversed diabetes, heart-disease or prostate-enlargement on a high-fat/low-carb diet. Not one doctor, not even Dr. Atkins could show it could be done, however Dr. Esselstyn, Barnand and Ornish have.

MisterE, you must really ignore the replies to your posts. You have tried to make this point multiple times, and every last time there have been people providing you clear evidence to the contrary. Not just half assed replies, but really comprehensive well thought out counterpoints. The fact that you are still trying to pass off this ridiculous opinion as fact in light of the people that have gone well out of their way in replying to it, not to disprove you but to help you understand, really goes to show how incapable you are of having anything other than a one way conversation.

I'd ask you to provide proof, but debunking the "proof" you systematically copy/paste from the McDougall newsletter verbatim, though exceedingly easy (especially considering few of the cited studies have anything substantial to do with the actual points McDougall, and by proxy you, try to make), is a pointless waste of time as you would only site the same studies again next week so we can repeat the cycle.

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:16 pm

Mistere is basing all his theories from a few doctor who's information has been seriously debunked in the last few years.

misterE Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:41 pm

scottyc33 wrote:
blackjack wrote:

What about every culture that eats animal fats where these disease don't exist?

what about every culture that doesnt eat a vegan / vegetarian diet and yet disease is rare.

MisterE - how do you explain this?

They might eat some animal-fat, but they do not have a fat-based-diet, most of those cultures also eat huge amounts of beans, rice, corn and other starches like yams, also plenty of high-fiber vegetables like squash. Another explanation is none of these cultures have the opportunity to eat lots of processed foods and dairy-products all the time, if at all. And how can we forget how much more physically active they are. Also they aren’t eating factory-farm animals as opposed to wild-animals who were much leaner and ate a proper diet. Having a very active lifestyle and a diet void of processed-foods, dairy-products and having lots of fiber and phytonutrients probably protected these tribes from the small amount of animal-fats/protein they ate.

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:45 pm

fast-food, pizza, eggs, cheese, fried-chicken, cheeseburgers, ice-cream, steak etc

ok great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuW3RfWJ1H0

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:46 pm

mistere how do you explain this

Lack of effect of a low-fat, high-fruit, -vegetable, and -fiber diet on serum prostate-specific antigen of men without prostate cancer: results from a randomized trial.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12202659?dopt=Abstract

Low Fat Diet Won't Prevent Prostate Cancer

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:47 pm

That's my point eating a whole based natural diet.. natural animal foods and plant foods.

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:49 pm

mistere here are some good links for you to study

http://search.mercola.com/Results.aspx?k=low%20fat%20diet

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:49 pm

Mounting evidence has suggested that low-fat diets, even those filled with fruit and vegetables, have raised plasma levels of oxidized LDL cholesterol, the "bad" cholesterol.

Directo Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:01 pm

misterE wrote:Another explanation is none of these cultures have the opportunity to eat lots of processed foods and dairy-products all the time, if at all.

Are you admitting that it's not the fat which is bad but the type of fat?? What a Face

misterE wrote:Having a very active lifestyle and a diet void of processed-foods, dairy-products and having lots of fiber and phytonutrients probably protected these tribes from the small amount of animal-fats/protein they ate.

Try with this one, you "forgot" it:

Ok so the Inuit got 50-75% of their calories from fat. WHy aren't they morbidly obese?

Directo Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:08 pm

Effects of dietary fat modification on skeletal muscle fatty acid handling in the metabolic syndrome.

CausticSymmetry Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:08 pm

misterE - If eating fat causes fat storage, and what fat we eat is what we wear, then how would you account for the results of this study, which was published this month? (not two decades ago like the low fat fanatics).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20679559

I'm sure you're short on time, so I will help out a little:

RESULTS: Weight loss was approximately 11 kg (11%) at 1 year and 7 kg (7%) at 2 years. There were no differences in weight, body composition, or bone mineral density between the groups at any time point. During the first 6 months, the low-carbohydrate diet group had greater reductions in diastolic blood pressure, triglyceride levels, and very-low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lesser reductions in low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, and more adverse symptoms than did the low-fat diet group. The low-carbohydrate diet group had greater increases in high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels at all time points, approximating a 23% increase at 2 years.

CONCLUSION: Successful weight loss can be achieved with either a low-fat or low-carbohydrate diet when coupled with behavioral treatment. A low-carbohydrate diet is associated with favorable changes in cardiovascular disease risk factors at 2 years.

Guest Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:37 pm

^ Thank God for that, I was just thinking to myself that I needed some office chairs!

You know, I love fruit... I love them. That's how it is. But I just rarely, rarely eat them now.

I don't need a study to tell me how something reacts with me, I eliminated all fruit and sugary veggies and it absolutely killed my scalp inflammation, along with stomach and some skin issues.

I was another one of those overweight vegans for a number of years, I have a cousin that is the same thing, it just goes further to point out that this diet is just not correct for everyone. To argue this is dangerous to those who will follow your advice and not what their own bodies will tell them if they listen closely.

blackjack Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:51 am

if you want to be weak and frail just eat a vegan diet.. its the anti muscle diet.

blackjack Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:52 am

the okinawans also eat alot of fish, coconut, lard, pork, goat milk.

Guest Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:56 am

blackjack wrote:the okinawans also eat alot of fish, coconut, lard, pork, goat milk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwX9Ll19cX0

http://nickdelgado.blogspot.com/2009/11/okinawan-lifestyle-epitomizes-anti.html

blackjack Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:01 am

they still eat a lot of fish, eggs, lard, pork, goat, insects...

"Eat the entire pig and leave nothing", and "You can eat every part of a pig apart from its oink".
okinawan quotes.

blackjack Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:15 am

Overall the okinawa diet was still high in carb and generally low in fat, but they still eat fat.

http://huntgatherlove.com/content/what-about-okinawans

Gibson Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:38 am

blackjack wrote:if you want to be weak and frail just eat a vegan diet.. its the anti muscle diet.

I don't think that is true. After a long search for an agreeable protein supp, with some disasterous results--I must have an allergy to egg white protein--I finally closed on pea protein. Pea protein is great; it seems to be slow burning, so there is no spike and it seems to have a sustaining effect on muscles. Most important, it works for me. Also, the Olympian Labs product I have tastes good.

That said, I've basically been vegan for over a month--no meat, but some dairy. And I am as strong as I was in my twenties. I'm also basically back to the slimness which I always enjoyed, which means I appear more cut. That said, as I have always maintained, I think hormonal profile is more important than diet when it comes to muscle and strength.

Of all people, I just heard that Mike Tyson is now a vegan:

http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/08/02/mike-tyson-credits-vegan-diet-with-massive-130-pound-weight-loss/

blackjack Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:46 am

Weston price would be devastated it he knew people actually thought a vegetarian/vegan diet was healthy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6p-SxECxUc#t=3m44s

Gibson Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:54 am

I think you can way above and beyond with a plant-based diet and the right supplements, etc. It's just really expensive, and out of the reach for many.

blackjack Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:02 am

I should say you can be healthy doing a high carb diet... the okinawans, Kitvans proved this. But they still eat a good amount of saturated fat.

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