"the fat you eat is the fat you wear"

zanza Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:20 am

I would like to take specific scrutiny at this claim

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_13351733

most of modern research is showing that soda is making Americans fat. Yet, soda has 0 fat. So, maybe it should be, "the sugar you eat, is the fat you wear"???

blackjack Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:31 am

fat is goood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6p-SxECxUc#t=3m45s

blackjack Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:35 am

weston price knew " too much white flour and white sugar "

MAO Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:14 am

I support the hypothesis that too much sugar = excess body fat. I try to implement the principles of Weston A Price and this has resulted in me having a low body fat percentage. I think about my sugar calories very carefully and pay no attention to my fat calories. I aim for low processed, low polyunsaturated and high saturated (coconut etc)/monounsaturated. Zero trans/hydrogenated freako fats.

Seems to work for me.

misterE Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:33 am

LPL; lipoprotein-lipase allows fat to slip from your bloodstream directly into fat cells. So when a person eats a fatty-meal like fried-chicken or brisket, the digestive track separates its fats from proteins. The fat molecules pass into circulation inside lipoproteins and are carried to different tissues. When they reach the fat-cells, LPL pulls the fat molecules out of the protein so that the fat can pass directly into fat-cells for storage.

If someone were to eat a sugary-meal like soda-pop and potatoes (both virtually fat-free) the sugar in the soda and potato would cause an insulin response which would prevent fat-loss, remember that one of insulin's roles in the body is to prevent the breakdown of body-fat for fuel, sparing it for the next famine. But carbohydrates do not add to body-fat! They only prevent its breakdown.

When carbohydrates are eaten, you body burns much of the calories off as heat inside the muscles and brain, remember: the brain runs exclusively on glucose. Any extra carbohydrates are then stored as glycogen not body-fat. Unlike body-fat, glycogen does not contribute to insulin-resistance or aromatase-activity. If glycogen stores are completely full (at 455 grams of carbohydrate) and you are still hungry (which would be hard to believe, especially on a high-fiber diet) and you ate more carbs, then and only then, would carbohydrates convert into triglycerides, which would then pass into fat-cells for storage via the lipoproteins and LPL. Vegetable-oils (olive, coconut, palm, canola) and animal-fats are all ready in the form of triglycerides and are therefore effortless stored as body-fat. If a person cannot burn off this fat faster than he puts it on, he is setting himself up for The Metabolic Syndrome, a disease that literally threatens the survival of our species!

zanza Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:52 am

misterE wrote:
LPL; lipoprotein-lipase allows fat to slip from your bloodstream directly into fat cells. So when a person eats a fatty-meal like fried-chicken or brisket, the digestive track separates its fats from proteins. The fat molecules pass into circulation inside lipoproteins and are carried to different tissues. When they reach the fat-cells, LPL pulls the fat molecules out of the protein so that the fat can pass directly into fat-cells for storage.

If someone were to eat a sugary-meal like soda-pop and potatoes (both virtually fat-free) the sugar in the soda and potato would cause an insulin response which would prevent fat-loss, remember that one of insulin's roles in the body is to prevent the breakdown of body-fat for fuel, sparing it for the next famine. But carbohydrates do not add to body-fat! They only prevent its breakdown.

When carbohydrates are eaten, you body burns much of the calories off as heat inside the muscles and brain, remember: the brain runs exclusively on glucose. Any extra carbohydrates are then stored as glycogen not body-fat. Unlike body-fat, glycogen does not contribute to insulin-resistance or aromatase-activity. If glycogen stores are completely full (at 455 grams of carbohydrate) and you are still hungry (which would be hard to believe, especially on a high-fiber diet) and you ate more carbs, then and only then, would carbohydrates convert into triglycerides, which would then pass into fat-cells for storage via the lipoproteins and LPL. Vegetable-oils (olive, coconut, palm, canola) and animal-fats are all ready in the form of triglycerides and are therefore effortless stored as body-fat. If a person cannot burn off this fat faster than he puts it on, he is setting himself up for The Metabolic Syndrome, a disease that literally threatens the survival of our species!

you mention coconut oil, however coconut oil has large amounts of MCT oils
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-chain_triglycerides

MCT oil contains fat burning properties
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5664953_mct-oil-used-for_.html
How Mct Oil Works
# Mct oil does not travel through the lymphatic system like other oils; it goes directly to the liver to be metabolized and released as energy. Mct oil acts like a carbohydrate (fuel for the body) to provide the necessary energy and calories, but not fat that can be stored by the body.
Bodybuilders and Mct Oil
# Bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts benefit from Mct oil's unique properties in that the oil can help with weight gain (muscle mass) and weight loss. Mct oil offers fat-burning energy and burns three times more than other fats. This fat-burning effect can last up to six hours after Mct oil is used.

zanza Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:09 am

board seems to be missing an edit feature.

You mention that consumed fats STORE to fat you wear. However, you also mention that the body can only use glucose. Why would the body store fat if it can only use glucose? Doesn't make sense to me.

Also, the brain can run off ketones, just as well as glucose. Lipolysis is the process by which your body gets energy from fats
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipolysis

also, fatty acid metabloism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_metabolism
Fatty acids are an important source of energy for many organisms. Excess glucose can be stored efficiently as fat. Triglycerides yield more than twice as much energy for the same mass as do carbohydrates or proteins. All cell membranes are built up of phospholipids, each of which contains two fatty acids. Fatty acids are also used for protein modification. The metabolism of fatty acids, therefore, consists of catabolic processes that generate energy and primary metabolites from fatty acids, and anabolic processes that create biologically important molecules from fatty acids and other dietary carbon sources.

CausticSymmetry Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:44 am

zanza - Sorry, I haven't been able to get the edit feature to work. It's a bit of a mystery. I set it to "on" and it still doesn't work.

misterE - There are many books that have been out for years now on how coconut oil accelerates weight loss.

MCT's from coconut are not stored as fat--ever.

Sugar converts right into fat.

High fructose corn syrup raises uric acid and stimulate lipogenesis.

misterE Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:01 pm

CausticSymmetry wrote:

Sugar converts right into fat.

Only after instant energy needs are met and glycogen stores are full.

CausticSymmetry Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:07 pm

misterE wrote:
CausticSymmetry wrote:

Sugar converts right into fat.

Only after instant energy needs are met and glycogen stores are full.

Totally agree with you there Smile

zanza Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:13 pm

CausticSymmetry wrote:
misterE wrote:
CausticSymmetry wrote:

Sugar converts right into fat.

Only after instant energy needs are met and glycogen stores are full.

Totally agree with you there

hell hath frozen over!

misterE Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:52 pm

CausticSymmetry wrote:

Totally agree with you there

So do you agree that "the fat you eat, is the fat you wear"?

CausticSymmetry Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:40 pm

misterE - No, just this, "Only after instant energy needs are met and glycogen stores are full."

misterE Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:53 pm

OK, we both agree about carbohydrate metabolsim. What about the fat you eat? Does it, or does it not turn directly into body-fat as I explained above?

misterE Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:26 pm

zanza wrote: Why would the body store fat if it can only use glucose? Doesn't make sense to me.

Also, the brain can run off ketones, just as well as glucose. Lipolysis is the process by which your body gets energy from fats

Your body wants to "hold-onto" fat for the next famine. Body-fat and dietary-fat are nothing more than concentrated calories (9-calores per gram compared to 4-calories per gram for carbohydrates). One pound of glycogen is 455 calories whereas one pound of body fat is nearly 4,000 calories!

Eating carbohydrates prevents body-fat breakdown because the body no longer has to rely on its emergency-food-source (body-fat) because it now has a new food-source coming in; carbohydrates.

This is where people like Gary Taubes get confused. They think that if they avoid carbohydrates and the insulin-response it brings, everything is OK. But what they fail to realize is that dietary-fat converts directly into body-fat and it does so without inflicting an insulin-response, that's how easily it is stored!

The take home message is that carbohydrates temporarily put the breaks on fat-burning, while dietary-fats get stored as body-fat so efficiently that it doesn't even cause an insulin-response. They are taken out of circulation by LPL directly into fat-cells. Eating carbohydrates will prevent the release of the fat from the fat-cells, while eating fat will just shove more fat into the fat-cells.

Body-fat can convert to glucose only if the person’s glycogen reserves are depleted (about 24 of sedentary movement up to 20 minuets of intensive exercise) and no longer consuming calories… ketones are by-products of this process.

zanza Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:45 am

I'm thinking maybe a high protein, low fat/low carb diet may be good for insulin resistance?
As you can see,. in my bolded part below, the metabolism of fructose always produces triglycerides. And yes, fruits have fructose, so the metabolism of fruits will produce triglycerides (which is the fat we wear?)

Fructose metabolism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose#Fructose_digestion_and_absorption_in_humans
All three dietary monosaccharides are transported into the liver by the GLUT 2 transporter.[32] Fructose and galactose are phosphorylated in the liver by fructokinase (Km= 0.5 mM) and galactokinase (Km = 0.8 mM). By contrast, glucose tends to pass through the liver (Km of hepatic glucokinase = 10 mM) and can be metabolised anywhere in the body. Uptake of fructose by the liver is not regulated by insulin.
[edit] Fructolysis

Fructolysis initially produces fructose 1,6-bisphosphate, which is split to produce phosphate derivatives of the trioses dihydroxyacetone and glyceraldehyde.[5] These are then metabolized either in the gluconeogenic pathway for glycogen replenishment and/or complete metabolism in the fructolytic pathway to pyruvate, which after conversion to acetyl-CoA enters the Krebs cycle, and is converted to citrate and subsequently directed toward ’’de novo’’ synthesis of the free fatty acid palmitate.[33]
[edit] Metabolism of fructose to DHAP and glyceraldehyde

The first step in the metabolism of fructose is the phosphorylation of fructose to fructose 1-phosphate by fructokinase, thus trapping fructose for metabolism in the liver. Fructose 1-phosphate then undergoes hydrolysis by aldolase B to form DHAP and glyceraldehydes; DHAP can either be isomerized to glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate by triosephosphate isomerase or undergo reduction to glycerol 3-phosphate by glycerol 3-phosphate dehydrogenase. The glyceraldehyde produced may also be converted to glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate by glyceraldehyde kinase or converted to glycerol 3-phosphate by glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate dehydrogenase. The metabolism of fructose at this point yields intermediates in the gluconeogenic and fructolytic pathways leading to glycogen synthesis as well as fatty acid and triglyceride synthesis.

scottyc33 Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:55 am

misterE wrote:
zanza wrote: Why would the body store fat if it can only use glucose? Doesn't make sense to me.

Also, the brain can run off ketones, just as well as glucose. Lipolysis is the process by which your body gets energy from fats

But what they fail to realize is that dietary-fat converts directly into body-fat and it does so without inflicting an insulin-response, that's how easily it is stored!

MisterE - what are your thoughts on coconut oil then?

tonyj Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:35 am

MisterE-

I don’t know why you are so insistence on picking on Gary Taubes. He is a science journalist who looked into the efficacy of the low-fat diet and found that the medical community in the US misinterpreted scientific data on nutrition. Basically his 5 year investigative study lead him to form a criticism of the research methodology in the health and nutrition field; how the de-emphasis of research methods allowed the hypothesis of high carb/low fat diet remain the status quo.
He reviewed medical research of the past 50 years and found that the connections between fat, cholesterol and heart disease has never been proven but then found that high carbs and refined carbs are responsible for obesity.

His research certainly demolishes the McDougall’s Lipid Hypothesis, and because McDougall based his career and clinic and his fortune (clinic) on the hypothesis, he is probably not going to change his mind even in the face of overwhelming evidence; evidence that McDougall does not disconfirm or rebut.

scottyc33 Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:15 am

misterE wrote:
zanza wrote: Why would the body store fat if it can only use glucose? Doesn't make sense to me.

Also, the brain can run off ketones, just as well as glucose. Lipolysis is the process by which your body gets energy from fats

Your body wants to "hold-onto" fat for the next famine. Body-fat and dietary-fat are nothing more than concentrated calories (9-calores per gram compared to 4-calories per gram for carbohydrates). One pound of glycogen is 455 calories whereas one pound of body fat is nearly 4,000 calories!

Eating carbohydrates prevents body-fat breakdown because the body no longer has to rely on its emergency-food-source (body-fat) because it now has a new food-source coming in; carbohydrates.

This is where people like Gary Taubes get confused. They think that if they avoid carbohydrates and the insulin-response it brings, everything is OK. But what they fail to realize is that dietary-fat converts directly into body-fat and it does so without inflicting an insulin-response, that's how easily it is stored!

The take home message is that carbohydrates temporarily put the breaks on fat-burning, while dietary-fats get stored as body-fat so efficiently that it doesn't even cause an insulin-response. They are taken out of circulation by LPL directly into fat-cells. Eating carbohydrates will prevent the release of the fat from the fat-cells, while eating fat will just shove more fat into the fat-cells.

Body-fat can convert to glucose only if the person’s glycogen reserves are depleted (about 24 of sedentary movement up to 20 minuets of intensive exercise) and no longer consuming calories… ketones are by-products of this process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_diet

Ok so the Inuit got 50-75% of their calories from fat. WHy aren't they morbidly obese?

misterE Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:09 am

zanza wrote:I'm thinking maybe a high protein, low fat/low carb diet may be good for insulin resistance?
As you can see,. in my bolded part below, the metabolism of fructose always produces triglycerides. And yes, fruits have fructose, so the metabolism of fruits will produce triglycerides (which is the fat we wear?)

An extremely-low-fat/high-fiber carbohydrate based diet is best as it is shown to reverse the "big-three" diseases associated with MPB. A high-protein diet wouldn't help because protein directly lowers SHBG and IGFBP's [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7], both of which are sensitive markers for insulin sensitivity. Fruit sugar only turns into triglycerides after instant calorie needs are met and glycogen-stores are full: which is hard to do on a high-fiber diet.

Under experimental laboratory conditions, where people were overfed large amounts of simple sugars, the human body will resort to converting a small amount of sugar into a small amount of fat (triglycerides) in the liver. For example, in a study, women were overfed with 535 of extra calories, each day from refined-sugar. In this forced-fed situation, the women produced less than 4 grams of body-fat daily from the extra carbohydrates [8].

Plus, a high-protein-diet is hard on the bones, leeching calcium from them, which is the main reason why people loose their bones over the years [9] [10][11] [12] [13] [14] [15].

[1] Diet and Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin.
[2] Dietary correlates of plasma insulin-like growth factor I and insulin-like growth factor binding protein 3 concentrations.
[3] Determinants of circulating insulin-like growth factor I and insulin-like growth factor binding protein 3 concentrations in a cohort of Singapore men and women.
[4] The influence of dietary intake on the insulin–like growth factor (IGF) system across three ethnic groups: a population–based study.
[5] The associations of diet with serum insulin–like growth factor I and its main binding proteins in 292 women meat–eaters, vegetarians, and vegans.
[6] Long-term effects of calorie or protein restriction on serum IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 concentration in humans.
[7] Relationship of Dietary Protein and Soy Isoflavones to Serum IGF-1 and IGF Binding Proteins in the Prostate Cancer Lifestyle Trial.
[8] De novo lipogenesis during controlled overfeeding with sucrose or glucose in lean and obese women.
[9] Cross-cultural association between dietary animal protein and hip fracture: a hypothesis.
[10] Worldwide incidence of hip fracture in elderly women: relation to consumption of animal and vegetable foods.
[11] Neutralization of Western diet inhibits bone resorption independently of K intake and reduces cortisol secretion in humans.
[12] Influence of diet on acid-base balance.
[13] Diet, evolution and aging--the pathophysiologic effects of the post-agricultural inversion of the potassium-to-sodium and base-to-chloride ratios in the human diet.
[14] Excess dietary protein can adversely affect bone.
[15] Dietary Animal and Plant Protein and Human Bone Health: A Whole Foods Approach.

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:20 am

Plus, a high-protein-diet is hard on the bones, leeching calcium from them, which is the main reason why people loose their bones over the years

most people aren't on a high protein diet. most people are on a high carb diet.

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:23 am

You can be healthy and fit on a low protein, high carb diet. But it has to include some source of animal protein.... Weston price did find healthy cultures thriving on a high carb diet, but they still ate good sources of animal fats for optimal health.

Although most of the diets described by Dr. Weston Price contained generous amounts of animal foods, a few were characterized by low levels of animal foods and a high carbohydrate intake. Several African groups consumed insects, small dried fish and shrimp, and small amounts of shrimp paste as their chief animal foods, with large amounts carbohydrates from tubers, grains, fruits like bananas, and vegetables. Natives of the high Andes consumed small amounts of animal foods in the form of Guinea pigs and dried seafood, particularly dried fish eggs, with large amounts of carbohydrates from potatoes and grains. Even the Swiss diet was relatively low in protein (milk has 2 percent of calories as protein, Swiss cheese has 23 percent of calories as protein) and high in carbohydrates from bread and milk. Protein intake may have been less than 10 percent in these diets, and carbohydrate intake in the range of 60 percent, yet these groups had excellent dental health and a high level of overall good health.

misterE Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:32 am

scottyc33 wrote:

MisterE - what are your thoughts on coconut oil then?

The fat found in any cooking-oils like coconut, palm, olive, canola, grapeseed, soybean, dairy-products and meats are already in the form of triglycerides, which the body automatically stores as body-fat, no questions asked.

The body-fat over time begins to accumulate within the muscle tissues, coating the muscle fibers and blocking insulin from entering the muscles where it is supposed to go, causing a resistance to insulin.

Also another nasty fact on fat is that body-fat contains aromatase-enzymes that convert free-testosterone into estrogen. Numerous studies are clear that a high-fat diet increases estrogen levels [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11].

It is important to understand that the only fat humans need to consume are the omega-3 and omega-6 essential-fatty-acids... hey, they are called essential for a reason! Saturated-fat and mono-unsaturated-fat is not needed by the body, because the body makes as much as it needs on its own, the only fat it can’t make is the omega-3 and omega-6 which are found in legumes, fruit, vegetables and flaxseeds.

Fat, not sugar causes diabetes! Sugar only becomes a problem when it turns into body-fat. When sugar is eaten, the sugar instantly burns off much of its calories as heat, if there is any extra, it is stored as glycogen... if the sugar consumption exceeds glycogen capacity, then and only then, is it stored as a body-fat, whereas if you were to eat fat, it would automatically turn into body-fat no questions asked; increasing estrogen levels and decreasing insulin sensitivity.

Here is the nutrition facts for one tablespoon. It has 116 calories, 12 grams of saturated-fat, no minerals, no fiber, only trace amounts of vitamin-E and is shown to be inflammatory.

The fat you eat is the fat you wear, if you eat processed-foods, you will be storing trans-fats in your body, if you eat dairy or meat, you will be storing animal-fat, if you eat coconut-oil or olive-oil, you will be storing its fat as body-fat, even fish-oil is shown to gets stored as body-fat [12]

A recent study looked at the effects of even just one high-fat meal on HDL, inflammation, and blood flow. Subjects were fed a meal high in coconut-oil and the effects were evaluated at 3 and 6 hours after the meal. The meal containing coconut-oil impaired the anti-inflammatory action of HDL at both 3 and 6 hours. In addition, blood-flow was significantly reduced 3 hours after the meal containing coconut-oil and remained slightly reduced at 6 hours [13].

Dr. Robert Vogel in a study called: The postprandial effect of components of the mediterranean diet on endothelial function, found that monounsaturated-fat from olive-oil reduced blood flow by 31% and impaired endothelial function, then he tested omega-3 essential-fatty-acids and found it to be neutral.

Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn and Dr. Dean Ornish have shown that you cannot reverse atherosclerosis unless you get fats extremely low (7-8%) in the diet.

All cooking-oils including coconut, olive, or palm are the most concentrated source of calories on the planet, clocking in at 120-calories (from fat) per tablespoon. It offers no nutrients except for a small amount of vitamin-E and is nothing but excess unessential fat which would only make reversing MPB and the “big-three” associated diseases, that much harder.

[1] Effect of a low-fat diet on hormone levels in women with cystic breast disease.
[2] Effect of low-fat diet on female sex hormone levels.
[3] Effect of diet on the plasma levels, metabolism and excretion of estrogens.
[4] The effect of a low fat diet on estrogen metabolism.
[5] Fat Intake Is Associated with Serum Estrogen and Androgen Concentrations in Postmenopausal Japanese Women.
[6] Effects of a High-Fiber, Low-Fat Diet Intervention on Serum Concentrations of Reproductive Steroid Hormones in Women With a History of Breast Cancer.
[7] Estrogen Excretion Patterns and Plasma Levels in Vegetarian and Omnivorous Women.
[8] Diet, Hormones, and Cancer.
[9] Effects of a very low fat, high fiber diet on serum hormones and menstrual function implications for breast cancer prevention.
[10] Effects of a very low fat, high fiber diet on serum hormones and menstrual function implications for breast cancer prevention.
[11] Timing of dietary fat exposure and mammary tumorigenesis: Role of estrogen receptor and protein kinase C activity.
[12] Adipose tissue biomarkers of fatty acid intake.
[13] Consumption of Saturated Fat Impairs the Anti-Inflammatory Properties of High-Density Lipoproteins and Endothelial Function.

blackjack Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:36 am

Why is it the last 25 years we have been bombarded by low fat everything, literally every product Americans were consuming was a "Low fat product" (skim milk, extra lean meat, margarine, etc)
but yet obesity has skyrocketed over the past 25 years.... Yet people do not drink or use Whole milk, lard, butter, fat on meat, coconut oil, egg yolks etc

misterE Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:37 am

tonyj wrote:MisterE-

I don’t know why you are so insistence on picking on Gary Taubes. He is a science journalist who looked into the efficacy of the low-fat diet and found that the medical community in the US misinterpreted scientific data on nutrition. Basically his 5 year investigative study lead him to form a criticism of the research methodology in the health and nutrition field; how the de-emphasis of research methods allowed the hypothesis of high carb/low fat diet remain the status quo.
He reviewed medical research of the past 50 years and found that the connections between fat, cholesterol and heart disease has never been proven but then found that high carbs and refined carbs are responsible for obesity.

You are ignoring the elephant in the room: no one has ever reversed diabetes, heart-disease or prostate-enlargement on a high-fat/low-carb diet. Not one doctor, not even Dr. Atkins could show it could be done, however Dr. Esselstyn, Barnand and Ornish have.

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