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my hairline is getting crazy!

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Post  Gibson Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:04 am

a quick search didn't yield anything directly linking estrogen to papain. Whip, if you're certain of this, please share your source?

Thanks.

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Post  kijumn Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:10 am

more info = Extracts of the pulp of Papaya Fruit have showed bacteriostatic properties when tested against Staphylococcus aureua, Escherichia coli, Salmonella typhi, Bacillus subtilis and other bacteria in vitro.
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Post  Whip Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:07 am

Okay, I should clarify. That is papaya, and papaya seeds. It sounded like he was using papaya and black papaya seeds, which some estros do promote hair gains.

"Papaya
Papaya (like aniseed) is estrogenic, meaning it has compounds that act as the female hormone estrogen. It has been used as a folk remedy in promoting menstruation and milk production, facilitating childbirth and increasing the female libido."

So, if it's papain which is the enzyme that is different, then it might be okay, but it sounded like raw papaya and the seeds to me.

Gibson, I'm the same way and I have tremendous spikes if I get too close to it, even in a topical. Peppermint oil did that recently. So, if it's only papain and that's different, then it may be okay, but if you're sensitive you'll know fairly quickly.

I'm eating a raw garlic clove once a day and also taking an internal rosemary pill to combat the estro effects from previous topical experiments, diet, enviro, etc.

JDP, I agree with you there. The posts a while back about Brylcreem, got me thinking about BHT, and maybe that as a topical would help. It does appear to destroy the lipids coating. Maybe this would be effective against demodex too and then a strong anti-bacterial follow up afterwards if you believe in demodex. Or you could use BHT and then a zapper, but check out the side effects of BHT first. You could just put it in a carrier oil and apply it but I wouldn't recommend internal.

Maybe BHT and papain after? Or BHT and anything after, oregano, garlic.

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Post  edony Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:39 am

Whip-

What Prague does is dissolving some extra papain tablets in papaya seeds oil.That is to increase the papain content of the oil ,as he is unsure of its exact papain content.
Papain is the proteolytic enzyme of papaya fruit ,it 's not a different thing.
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Post  Gibson Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:57 am

I got my papain powder today. Essentially it is just green papaya dried at low temperature. That said, I did find info that points to papaya as being estrogenic, so I'm going to have to pass on it. Here's one site with info, scroll down:

http://healthydoses.wordpress.com/

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Post  Whip Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:13 am

Hey Gibson, maybe you can exchange that papain for something else. I'm sure that natural estrogens help hairloss a little, but overtime the sides are too great. I know for myself for overall health, I'd rather err on the side of T than E.

Try a garlic clove 1x a day and see if that helps. I cut a clove up into four pieces, make sure there are no sharp/pointy edges and swallow with room temp water. Cold water is a bad idea because the pieces can be large.

Do you notice hair texture changes from the different internals you are taking? I'm currently looking at blackstrap molasses and black sesame seed powder/tea to add to my regimen. There is a sulphured version of blackstrap, so maybe I wouldn't have to take MSM if I get sulphur from that, although, it's in the garlic also.

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Post  hapyman Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:23 am

Instead of making my own papain topical I was searching around to see if someone did the work for us. Apparently papain is already used to treat certain wounds and there is even a prescription drug containing papain for wound debridement. I found this little excerpt and found it pretty interesting:

Papain, the proteolytic enzyme from the fruit of carica papaya, is a potent digestant of nonviable protein matter but is harmless to viable tissue. It is active over a pH range of 3 to 12. Papain is relatively ineffective when used alone as a debriding agent and requires the presence of activators to stimulate its digestive potency. In ACCUZYME, papain is combined with urea, a denaturant of proteins, to bring about two supplemental chemical actions: (1) to expose by solvent action the activators of papain, and (2) to denature the nonviable protein matter in lesions and thereby render it more susceptible to enzymatic digestion. Pharmacologic studies have shown that the combination of papain and urea result in twice as much digestive activity as papain alone.

A quick scour with google turns up this:

Papain-Urea (10%/10%) Salve / Ointment by Bianca Rosa

Ingredients:
Beeswax, Glycerin (Vegetable Source), Papain (Papaya Enzyme), Urea, Benzoin (Preservative), Jojoba Oil, Lanette Wax (Emulsifier)


Description

Helps Restore Balance to Healthy Skin Providing Soothing Topical Relief to Minor Skin Burns or Abrasions - For Your Heels, Hands, Fingers, Elbows, Knees and Feet - Fragrance-Free!

Bianca Rosa Papain-Urea (10%/10%) Salve / Ointment helps absorb and retain moisture into the dry areas of your skin such as your elbows, knees, heels, hands and fingers. Combined with papain, urea, and jojoba oil, Bianca Rosa Papain-Urea (10%/10%) Salve / Ointment helps to break down dead or damaged tissue that may result from minor skin abrasions, burns, irritations, or sores, leaving behind soft, noursihed and healthy skin!

A non-greasy, non-staining formula, Bianca Rosa Urea Papain-Urea (10%/10%) Salve / Ointment does not just cover your skin like other skin-care products. Use it to facilitate the healing of minor cuts, scrapes, or burns and to assist and enhance the penetration and retention of moisture to your skin.

Directions


Apply Bianca Rosa Papain-Urea (10%/10%) Salve / Ointment morning and evenings, or as directed by a health care practitioner. On a moist cotton wool pad or with the fingertips, apply to the desired area of the body. Massage onto thoroughly cleansed skin with a gentle circular motion.

This may be an interesting alternative for others to try. I may try this out as it is only $10. I found a couple others but some of their ingredients were a turnoff for me. This seems pretty natural and simplistic.
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Post  Paradox Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:42 am

Prague,

Have you noticed a dramatic change in your skin since starting the hyaluronic acid (int,ext)? I just ordered the Jarrow brand and the external serum that they discount with it. Some of the reviews make the stuff sound like an anti-aging skin miracle.

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Post  CausticSymmetry Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:44 am

JHarsh80 - While I can't speak for Prague, I can comment on the internal use of HA. I've been taking it very consistently for quite a while. It's amazing for skin.

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Post  Paradox Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:29 am

Nice! What product are you using CS? Are you able to hold on to your hair without any SP, BS, etc.? You are doing nothing in the androgen department directly? I need to find a cheap topical. What would you suggest that has the most 'backing'- GSE? I like the feel of acids on my scalp. Just threw on some ACV for the hell of it. I used to use azelaic acid in ethanol until it became hard to find.

What is your take on this as far as the estrogen part goes? Wouldn't it support the papain results if true?:

A prerequisite of treatment of androgenic hair loss is early interruption of the pathogenetic processes which cause degeneration of the hair follicle. To achieve a normalization of the hair cycle, that is, prolonging of the growth phase of the hair, it is necessary to reduce the biologically active amount of androgen at the follicle. When endocrinopathies have been ruled out and medicaments which comprise testosterone or other substances having an androgenic action have been discontinued, inhibition of androgen stimulation at the target organ is necessary. To achieve this aim, two routes are theoretically conceivable: firstly, inhibition of the activity of the 5α-reductase and therefore a reduction in the conversion of testosterone into 5α-dihydrotestosterone, for example by estrogen, and secondly, blocking of the dihydrotestosterone-sensitive receptor protein, for example by antiandrogens.

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Post  CausticSymmetry Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:58 am

JHarsh80 - Two of the supplements I take does affect the androgen receptor and/or DHT. Curcumin & Krill oil. Resveratrol helps increase testosterone and lower estrogen. The body makes more DHT if it's low on testosterone and high on estrogen. Primarily my regimen goes after MMP-9, TGF-beta, various cytokines, inflammatory molecules that occur post DHT.

Insulin resistance increases other forms of hormone resistance, (i.e, testosterone resistance, estrogen dominance = more DHT).

I did a recent thread on a topical substance that beat finasteride, it should still be on the first page.

Grape seed has a lot of backing, so that's worth checking out also.

I take two of these caps per day of HA:

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Hyaluronic-Acid-Double-Strength-100-mg-60-Vcaps/8227?at=0

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Post  Gibson Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:09 pm

Whip wrote:Hey Gibson, maybe you can exchange that papain for something else. I'm sure that natural estrogens help hairloss a little, but overtime the sides are too great. I know for myself for overall health, I'd rather err on the side of T than E.

Try a garlic clove 1x a day and see if that helps. I cut a clove up into four pieces, make sure there are no sharp/pointy edges and swallow with room temp water. Cold water is a bad idea because the pieces can be large.

Do you notice hair texture changes from the different internals you are taking? I'm currently looking at blackstrap molasses and black sesame seed powder/tea to add to my regimen. There is a sulphured version of blackstrap, so maybe I wouldn't have to take MSM if I get sulphur from that, although, it's in the garlic also.

Whip--

I got bad estrogen sides two times from natural estrogen. Once from Fo Ti, a couple years ago, and recently from topical PM extract. In both cases, my hair was doing better than great. To hear Prague say his hair is Bowie-like reminds me exactly of how I felt when the estrogen was working. When I was a kid I used to have long hair and felt like my hair was strong enough to support my weight, the estrogen brought me back to that feeling and of course my hair looked vibrant.

That said, I am too vain to succumb to the sides--I work out for an hour and a half at least three times a week in a class packed with hard-bodies in front of a mirror, wearing shorts and no shirt. So on both occasions, as soon as the sides kicked-in I went into overdrive to get them in check--calcium d-glucararate, dim, 7-Hmr. I will say that I think I am more sensitive to estrogen now, or more aware. My stomach gets bloated. It's actually pretty remarkable. If I use a caledula shampoo too much in one day, my gut will inflate, so i'm not one hundred percent back to normal. But in a way, I don't want to go all the way back because my skin is sebum and acne free; I think I actually may be better balanced now. Don't have that androgen overdrive look. But this is a tangent, so take it with a grain of salt.

One thing that also makes me a skeptic about papain is that people have been using peels and retonic acid for years. Seems like there may be some benefit at the cost of cosmetically frying your hair. The unclogging approach has been around a while and doesn't seem to yield beautiful hair. De-calcification on the other hand seems to work wonders (mag oil).

I've often subscribed to the compromised kidney angle on hair loss. Every person, male or female that I've seen with screwed up kidneys has had hair loss. Also the Chinese seem to think this is a factor. When I first took Fo ti, I thought I was doing something for my kidneys, which obviously wasn't the case.

All said, Prague may be right (I hope he is). Who knows, time will tell. And I wouldn't hesitate to use papain if others report results sans estrogen sides.

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Post  hapyman Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:17 am

Gibson wrote:
One thing that also makes me a skeptic about papain is that people have been using peels and retonic acid for years. Seems like there may be some benefit at the cost of cosmetically frying your hair. The unclogging approach has been around a while and doesn't seem to yield beautiful hair. De-calcification on the other hand seems to work wonders (mag oil).

Except papain just doesn't "unclog" the follicles. The interesting thing about papain is its propensity to breakdown dead tissue or scarring while leaving healthy tissue intact. So papain should in theory help break down fibrosis while allowing healthy collagen to be laid down behind it. If you already have your hairloss under control or close to it, papain could be used to reverse some of the damage that has been laid. This is the biggest hurdle in getting good regrowth and currently JDP is taking a similar route, except more internal, with the proteolytic enzymes and pauling protocol. The combination of topical papain and hylauronic acid is interesting as well as possibly adding topical lysine and vitamin C.
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Post  Whip Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:19 am

Thanks Gibson for the info-

I too had a similar experience. I also took Fo-Ti and had a similar effect, even topical saw P would cause sides very quickly. I know if i take a combo (even biotin) I will notice that bloating effect. I thought I was crazy at first, but I noticed that the effect only happened when I tried used anything that had DHT-reducing or leaned more towards E than T.

I think there is an age threshold with the side effects. When I was younger I used topical Saw P and had no problems, after a certain age, I became more sensitive to the effects. Anything with Soy is right out, etc.

I think that guys like Bowie and Jagger are programmed more towards that type, which equals great hair but I can't imagine playing a few rounds of volleyball on the beach with Bowie if you know what I mean. Haha.

You're right about the kidneys. Maybe Prague's raw/warrior diet, de-calc, and some other factors will keep it stabilized, but I know some DHT is needed in the body.

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Post  Paradox Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:42 am

Have you eve stopped to think about waht 'to vain' means? To you it is your physique ... to some of of us it is MPB! Some of us will stop at nothing to reverse this auttoimunity that we call AA (androgenetic alopecia). The fact that you place more importance on your physique points to the fact that this is not your number one priority.

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Post  Gibson Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:54 am

hapyman wrote:
Gibson wrote:
One thing that also makes me a skeptic about papain is that people have been using peels and retonic acid for years. Seems like there may be some benefit at the cost of cosmetically frying your hair. The unclogging approach has been around a while and doesn't seem to yield beautiful hair. De-calcification on the other hand seems to work wonders (mag oil).

Except papain just doesn't "unclog" the follicles. The interesting thing about papain is its propensity to breakdown dead tissue or scarring while leaving healthy tissue intact. So papain should in theory help break down fibrosis while allowing healthy collagen to be laid down behind it. If you already have your hairloss under control or close to it, papain could be used to reverse some of the damage that has been laid. This is the biggest hurdle in getting good regrowth and currently JDP is taking a similar route, except more internal, with the proteolytic enzymes and pauling protocol. The combination of topical papain and hylauronic acid is interesting as well as possibly adding topical lysine and vitamin C.

Hair is "dead tissue."

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Post  Gibson Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:18 am

JHarsh80 wrote:Have you eve stopped to think about waht 'to vain' means? To you it is your physique ... to some of of us it is MPB! Some of us will stop at nothing to reverse this auttoimunity that we call AA (androgenetic alopecia). The fact that you place more importance on your physique points to the fact that this is not your number one priority.

JHarsh80--I care about it all. 95 percent of the people you encounter will never see you with your shirt off. So hair is quite important to me. I guess i'm at the age where i look at it all and take the approach of anti-aging across the board.

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Post  hapyman Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:21 pm

I found an interesting patent looking around that uses papain and a combination of other ingredients. Pretty interesting and it only has to be done every 3 months at most. I left out most of the technical details but you can see how to prepare the product if you follow the link.




Compositions and method for promoting the growth of human hair

TECHNICAL FIELD

This invention relates generally to compositions and methods directed at promoting the growth of hair in men and women and other mammals. Specifically, this invention is directed at compositions comprising monoethanolamine salts of thioglycolic, salicylic, lactic and glycolic acids in combination with an enzyme, preferably papain, with an oxidizing agent, and their methods of use to induce hair growth in the scalp of humans and other mammals.

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

The average male or female scalp is endowed with between 100,000 and 150,000 hair follicles from which human hairs are generated. Generally, adult human hair can be divided into two categories, “vellous” and “terminal” hair. Vellous hair is comprised of very thin short hairs, only a centimeter or two long, that contain little or no pigment. The follicles that produce vellous hair do not have oil glands (often called sebaceous glands), and never produce any other kind of hair. Terminal hair is comprised of the long hairs that grow on the head and in many people on the body, arms and legs too. They are produced by follicles with sebaceous glands. In people who have inherited a tendency to baldness the hairs in these follicles gradually become thinner and shorter until they look like vellous hairs.

The human hair growth cycle is essentially composed of three stages which repeats indefinitely in healthy follicles. The three known growth stages which have been identified are: (a) the anagen stage, during which the hair grows, (b) the katagen stage, during which the hair follicle prepares for the next phase, the telogen, and the previously growing hair is converted into a resting hair or club hair and (c) the telogen, which is the resting phase during which hair growth ceases completely. Using a mechanism, not yet fully understood, at some point at the end of the cycle, telogenic follicles commence forming new anagens, causing new hair to grow and existing hair to fall out. This growth cycle repeats itself unchanged during the life of the follicle and is essentially identical for vellous or terminal hair-producing follicles.

It has been determined through observation and experimentation that in order for abundant hair growth to occur, healthy follicles and a good supply for it of all necessary nutrients are required. Unhealthy follicles, such as caused by disease or stress, or improper nutrition can thus result in loss of hair. Hair loss brought about by these factors, however, is usually temporary and can be reversed by eliminating the unhealthy conditions. Such reversible conditions, generally of unknown origin, should not be confused with the more chronic conditions which cause irreversible hair loss by replacing terminal hair with vellous hair and eventually no hair.

The exact pathogenic or genetic mechanism that triggers the shift in certain follicles from producing terminal to vellous, and eventually to a complete absence of, hair, is the subject of much debate. Suffice it to say that there is no consensus among those skilled in the art as to the causes of hair loss in men and women. As a result, numerous attempts have been made to provide methods and/or compositions which effectively, and without adverse consequences, can prevent or reverse the seemingly permanent shift from terminal to vellous hair-producing follicles in certain persons.

However, none of these attempts have proven satisfactory from the standpoint of efficacy, convenience, safety or cost. Accordingly, there is a present need for a convenient, inexpensive, safe and efficient compound to treat persons suffering from hair loss conditions, such as alopecia.

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

The subject invention resolves the above-described needs and problems by providing an easy to produce, inexpensive and effective compositions, and method of using same, for the treatment of premature hair loss in adult men and women.

The compositions of the present invention comprises two separate products. The first product is keratin reducing compound comprising a combination of salts, preferably monoethanolamine salts, of thioglycolic, salicylic, lactic and glycolic acids with an enzyme, preferably papain. The second product is an oxidizing compound which restores keratin in hair to its state before application of the first product.

In its preferred embodiment, the present invention relies on the unexpected and beneficial reaction between four salts, an enzyme and sunlight to eliminate the obstacles that block hair growth in the human scalp. It is believed that ultraviolet-B (“UV-B”) radiation present in sunlight augments and stimulates the growth of epithelial cells and sebaceous glands which surround human hair follicles resulting in stimulation of the dermal papilla and, consequently, in hair growth.

It is commonly believed that alopecia is caused by a pathological dystrophy of hair follicles which eventually results in their eventual death and replacement by connective fatty tissue. What is required to reverse this pathology are chemical compounds that eliminate excess fatty deposits found in the follicle and surrounding areas of the epidermis.

The four salts employed in the invention are:

Monoethanolamine thioglycolate,

Monoethanolamine salicylate,

Monoethanolamine lactate, and

Monoethanolamine glycolate.

The enzyme utilized in the preferred embodiment is papain. It is believed that the effect of eliminating the hair-loss inducing connective fatty tissue is achieved by the monoethanolamine salts through the elimination of disulfuric bonds present in the keratin amino-acid cystine. Keratin is the essential component of hair, consequently, of the hair follicle root. Cystine is broken down by the monoethanolamine salts into cysteine, which is the reduced state of keratin. After the damaging cells are removed, through a process of oxidation, the disulfuric bonds are reestablished, returning the hair keratin to its original state. The detergent characteristics of monoethanolamine help carry the removed cells safely away from the follicle which in turn stimulates growth of the follicle. The papain enzyme imparts elasticity over the keratin and skin tissues to ease the elimination of pathogenic cells.

Having re-activated the previously dormant hair follicles, and provided said follicles are located in areas where blood circulation is sufficient to deliver required nutrients, hair growth is immediately stimulated and anagenic hair can be seen to develop within a matter of hours after treatment.


The compositions of the present invention have been observed to induce significant long-term hair growth in areas of scalp which were previously devoid, or nearly devoid, of terminal hairs. Such effect has been observed after treatment of the scalp for periods of less than 60 minutes, and with such treatments occurring once every 3 to 12 months. These beneficial results have been achieved without any significant adverse health effects.


Accordingly, it is an object of the present invention to provide a convenient, inexpensive, safe and efficient compound to treat persons suffering from hair loss conditions, such as alopecia.

These and other objects, features, and advantages of the present invention may be more clearly understood and appreciated from a review of ensuing detailed description of the preferred and alternate embodiments and by reference to the accompanying drawings and claims.

Technical portion skipped here

III. Method of Use

The preferred method of use is different for men and women due to physiological reasons which are not well understood. It has been observed that women generally require less treatment than men.

In a typical treatment, the Monoethanolamine Salt Product is applied topically to the roots of a cleaned scalp using a plastic applicator that allows sufficient precision for this task. The Monoethanolamine Salt Product is left on the scalp for approximately one (1) hour (for men) or 45 minutes (for women) and the scalp is then thoroughly washed with warm water and massaged until none of the product can be felt on the scalp.

Next, the Oxidizing Agent is topically applied to the scalp in the same fashion. The Oxidizing Agent should be allowed to remain on the scalp for 30 minutes or longer (regardless of whether the patient is male or female) and then the scalp should be thoroughly washed with warm water and massaged until none of the agent can be felt on the scalp.

Treatment sessions should be spaced at least 3 months apart. As previously stated, it has been observed that women generally require less treatment than men. Accordingly, the treatment sessions for women can be spaced apart as long as 12 months.

It has been observed through experimentation that in addition to the hair growth effects described above, the compositions of the present invention also have cosmetic effects. Particularly, the compositions of the present invention give hair a thicker, healthier appearance and appear to induce regeneration of the scalp tissue. Moreover, scalp conditions such as dandruff, seborrhea and psoriasis show marked improvement and reduced symptoms as a result of use of the disclosed compounds.

Finally, it should also be pointed out that the above effects of the disclosed invention, including the hair growth and cosmetic effects, have been demonstrated to occur not only in humans but also in many other mammals.

Accordingly, it will be understood that the preferred embodiments of the invention have been disclosed by way of example and that other modifications and alterations may occur to those skilled in the art without departing from the scope and spirit of the appended claims.
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Post  Gibson Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:57 pm

I've decided to try the papain topical--actually applied it twice over the past two hours. As most have mentioned, i wish Prague had more specific instructions. I'm just winging it, but I guess that's par for this course.

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Post  edony Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:10 pm

Gibson-

what did u use as a carrier? Prague suggests papaya seeds oil.
Did you use any HA and DMSO along with papain?
I can t seem to find any papaya oil other than some on ebay.

I have this papain
http://www.iherb.com/Royal-Tropics-The-Original-Green-Papaya-Digestive-Aid-5-0-oz-141-7-g/16491?at=0

Don t know what kind of HA to use though...
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Post  Prague Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:45 pm

The idea behind putting papain into papaya seeds oil was that:

a) I was thinking that it would already contain some papain and it would be easier for the extra papain to dissolve in it's natural environment

b) the oil should work as a carrier to some degree (same goes for HA)

I would'n apply it very often - it works (in theory) on a different mechanism than all sort of blockers (usually DHT) and I started with 3 applications per week overnight - now doing only once a week (since my hair is in a great shape i'm not obsessed with it anymore and do not need so much discipline)

prior to my decission to use topical papain i've found several studies suporting my hypothesis (i can speak several languages so i've digged some studies in french, german, russian, czech as well)

one thing for Gibson - i was a very estrogenic type before - i'm still on my T increasing protocol (Mucuna pruriens, damiana, passionflower, bee pollen, ashwaganda, maca, weak estrogenes, resveratrol, curcumin, celery, parsley, etc) and have found (supported by studies and my experience) that gluten is extreeeeeeemly estrogenic. It's capacity to shift hormonal balance is tremendous (direct and indirect via thyroid, zinc absorbtion, etc). I always had some kind of african babie's belly - skinny with some fat around my stomach. I dropped gluten and it dissapeared.

Plus the d-chiro-inositol can change your hormonal profile in a very strong manner. I've read posts by women with PCOS presenting their hormonal analyses after befor/after regular consumption of buckwheat: a huge improvement. The no gluten/ yes to buckwheat is a tremendous win-win approach.

My idea of MPB is (in a chronologico-causal order) that via your colon (gluten, cassein, corn, soya, sugar) you get indigested proteins to your tissue via capillaires (gluten is the worst since it covers everything with a layer of a mass that cannot be dissolved and this is delivered to the tissue) - then bacteria feed bicth this undigested protein - inflammation - increased extracellular calcium flow in the tissue to curtail the inflammation - calcium deposits - ipmroper collagen function and hardening of the tissue - decreased bloodflow - immunoresponsive reaction - hairloss

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Post  Prague Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:14 am

DHT is a sort of messenger somewhere between (as IH pointed) and there's no particular need to adress it

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Post  hapyman Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:10 am

Thanks for the info Prague. I hope you keep us updated on your progress.

@Gibson: I am thinking about starting to use papain as well. May have to get some Papaya seed oil or I was thinking about just using castor oil or coconut oil. To mirror what Prague said... I wouldn't use this everyday. Depending on how concentrated, applying it everyday may potentially damage the hair follicle and shaft. The patent that I posted above goes into some detail about this. Basically they used an oxidizing agent to repair any of the linkages that were broken by the enzymes. They used "sodium bromate (NaBrO 3 ) in water combined with a stabilizer to allow for ease of application". Using this topically we are going to want the papain to penetrate deeper than just the top layer of the skin. Not sure if DMSO is necessarily the answer here but it will definitely do that.
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Post  hopeful Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:37 am

I wonder if DMI in a solution of papaya oil and papain powder would work.
Here is link on DMI if you wanna read up on it: http://www.bulkactives.com/dimethylisosobide.htm

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Post  hapyman Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:20 am

I've always wanted to try DMI. 50 grams doesn't sound like a whole lot but I guess you only need 3% - 5% in solution for it to be effective.
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