Regrowth with topical Kefir and Agrimony?

jersey - Thank you!

thelibrarian - I'm not certain how well a probiotic used topically would work out. However, kefir has a trillion plus bacteria count, whereas the very best probiotics only have about 50 to 100 billion. I should point out that only self-made kefir would contain large quantities since store bought has vastly less--to marginal amounts by the time it reaches the consumer.

gonzalito - Helicobacter Pylori originates in the stomach, so topical treatment would not be a factor. Other than Turmeric/Curcumin, Thyme and Sulforaphane are remarkably effective against H. Pylori also.

CausticSymmetry wrote:thelibrarian - Thank you for your comments, much appreciated. Even though I could use the money, doing a subscription would lose a lot of readers for sure. My website design skills are seriously lacking also, but I thought about placing a donation area somewhere just to help offset the general operating cost which the google ads often fail to do. I think the readers here are too knowledgeable to click on them anyway, LOL.

Hey CS, I will gladly click on the links every day if it helps. If everybody else does this maybe you an easily offset the operating costs. the donationthing is also a good idea.

Id definitely make a donation. Ive gained some really great knowledge here and its much appreciated.

Fascinating!

IH, this reminds me of that telomerase-guy that claims his $2,000 telomerase can cure baldness. Wonder if it's along the same lines?

I made some of my own milk kefir and finally applied it last night. My scalp feels great today. I have actually been using Scalpure lately and it feels even better after the kefir than it does after Scalpure. I have no idea what it has done/will do to my rate of hair loss but it may take some time to see a difference. My scalp does feel loser and more elastic though and not at all itchy. Thinking there might be a microbial war going on on my scalp as a result of using the kefir I decided to load up on some bromelain on an empty stomach to keep any inflammation that might create in check so not sure if that has had a positive effect as well or not. The only drawback that I can see so far as I feel I cannot get away from the lingering odor of kefir which is akin to that of sour milk.

I will keep everyone updated on future developments.

Update, since August the sixteenth
I'm using kefir (topically and orally). I can confirm all of
tommash's an huli's comments. Less itching, decreasing hair-loss-rate (4 or 5 hairs a day).
To summarize in short words, indeed a positive - first - feedback.

Maybe this positive result is good but not good enough, maybe we can go on a step further
(ok, good argument, it might be much too early) => The subject of my thread was 'Regrowth with topical Kefir and Agrimony?'. Has someone checked Agrimony (don't know where to get it here in Europe)?

No idea where to get agrimony oil, Crusher, but have found places to buy powder and seeds. I'll keep looking for the oil and post what I find.

SUBSTANTIAL reduction in hair loss after first kefir treatment. Actually really crazy. I hate putting that stinky stuff in my hair but if it works....I'm not complaining. Hoping for further reduction with continued use.

CS do you think this is likely to be something that would require everyday use on an ongoing basis or once a better bacterial balance has been achieved do you think it would be possible to reduce or even stop use?

Thanks and thanks Crusher for starting this thread.

huli - It's also known as Agrimonia Eupatoria. There is no mention anywhere on the web about this stuff for hair, except for that kefir site. Looking at the medical literature, I could see it has tannins and other constituents. It's for external use only and appears to have antifungal, antibacterial properties. Another thing to experiment with to see how well it works, if it works.

Here's a cheap source of it.

http://www.iherb.com/Flower-Essence-Services-Healing-Herbs-Agrimony-Flower-Essence-1-fl-oz-30-ml/16177?at=0

Crusher - Great thread here!

If you're rubbing and massaging Kefir in your hair every day, wouldn't it seem like your overall hair loss is less since you probably lost a lot already during the application of kefir? Or are you guys finding no hair loss during the application of the kefir?

Has anybody else been experimenting with Kefir but for more than a few days? Like say a month?

Warren,

I lost three hairs last night applying the kefir. When I rinsed it all out and then showered (you have shampoo thoroughly or your head stinks like rotten milk) I lost maybe another 10 hairs. For me that is a significant decrease per shower. I am hoping it decreases even more as it seems to have done for crusher and tommash.

I have lost many more hairs applying other topicals in the past. It is conceivable that this is all coincidence and not due to the kefir. I will continue to apply the kefir for a while and hope to find out.

huli

Gah, can anyone refer me to a person to mail me some kefir again?

Hey, guys... Any interesting update to share on the use of topical kefir? Can we say it does work? Thanks in advance!

I'm on board now.

I got Kefir and Kombucha from the Kefir lady, and consumed the kefir milk yesterday and the day before. Tonight is my first time actually applying the Kefir to my head. I did it as follows:

- Got a baster, and used that as my "dropper" for the kefir milk

- Massaged it in for 5-10 minutes (drops a lot all over the place--do this over a sink or your tub)

- Wrapped my head in cellophane plastic

- Put an old winter hat over my head (opens up the pores due to the heat)

My Kombucha Tea is fermenting, I'll be consuming that regularly as well, apparently has some great hair results when consumed internally. Also purchased Agrimony Oil, but the instructions say to use the Kefir daily for 2 weeks, then alternate every other day with the Agrimony Oil.

Oh yea...bought stinging nettle leaves from the net as well, and will be rinsing out with a stinging nettle tea once it arrives.

Guys, very interesting with the topical kefir. I doubt that the bacteria can make
their way through the skin and down to the follicle. If bacteria could pass through skin we would get sick all the time.

Hey guys. I found the topical kefir did stabilize my hair somewhat but it was the most unpleasant treatment I could come up with. I found the smell of sour milk travelling with me for most of the day or following day after. I have a hard time coping with that so stopped. I'd be interested to see how Nid makes out with it and of course Crusher and Tommash. Also I didn't rinse with the nettle water. Maybe that helps get rid of some of the smell?

cpio wrote:Guys, very interesting with the topical kefir. I doubt that the bacteria can make
their way through the skin and down to the follicle. If bacteria could pass through skin we would get sick all the time.

You don't want the bacteria in the follicle anyways. The healthy bacteria on the skin usually secrete certain molecules that inhibit the growth of pathogens. It is an arms race usually. I am sure these much smaller molecules are what is responsible for the positive results along with inhibiting pathogens (bad bacteria, fungus etc.).

There is an italian product by Specchiasol named Homocrin that contains pure organic aloe vera gel ,prebiotic fibers and probiotic milk enzymes .

On label : "contains fermented Lactobacilus,streptococcus Lactis extract which according to recent studies ,are able to preserve and restore hair and scalp's natural physiological balance".
Other ingredients - 18 Beta-Glycyrrhetic acid (power anti-inflammatory)
- Gingko Biloba
- Camelia sinensis extract
- Acacia Senegal Gum extract
- Chicorium Intybus extract
- Creatine
- Serenoa serrulata extract
-Mg chloride
-zinc sulfate,copper gluconate
I believe i found homocrin for sale on amazon ,quite expensive...

Human Skin Harbors Completely Unknown Bacteria

ScienceDaily (Feb. 6, 2007) — It appears that the skin, the largest organ in our body, is a kind of zoo and some of the inhabitants are quite novel, according to a new study. Researchers found evidence for 182 species of bacteria in skin samples. Eight percent were unknown species that had never before been described.

It is the first study to identify the composition of bacterial populations on the skin using a powerful molecular method. Not only were the bacteria more diverse than previously estimated, but some of them had not been found before, says Martin J. Blaser, M.D., Frederick King Professor and Chair of the Department of Medicine and Professor of Microbiology at NYU School of Medicine, one of the authors of the study.

"The skin is home to a virtual zoo of bacteria," he says. This study is published February 5, 2007, in the online edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The researchers analyzed the bacteria on the forearms of six healthy subjects; three men and three women. "This is essentially the first molecular study of the skin," says Dr. Blaser. The skin has been, he says, terra incognita, an unknown world that he and his colleagues have set out to understand much like explorers.

"There are probably fewer than ten labs in the U.S. looking at this question," says Dr. Blaser. "It is very intensive work," he adds. Zhan Gao, M.D., senior research scientist in Dr. Blaser's lab, led the research, which took more than three years to complete.

Some of the bacteria on the skin appear to be more or less permanent residents; others are transient, according to the study.

This research is part of an emerging effort to study human microbial ecology. Dr. Blaser's laboratory has previously examined the bacterial population in the stomach and the esophagus. "Many of the bacteria of the human body are still unknown," he says. "We all live with bacteria all our lives and occasionally we smile, so they're not that bad for us."

The most numerous cells in our body are microbial--they outnumber our cells 10 to 1. The body has microbes native to the body, including the skin, and these populations change according to how we live, he says. "Ultimately what we want to do is compare disease and health," says Dr. Blaser. Keeping bacterial populations in our body stable may be part of staying healthy, he says.

In the new study, the researchers took swabs from the inner right and left forearms of six individuals picking the region halfway between the wrist and the elbow for its convenience. "It's not where they wash their hands," explains Dr. Blaser. "And they don't have to undress." The researchers wanted to be able to compare two similar parts of the body. Because they also wanted to study change over time, they took swabs from four of the individuals 8 to10 months after the first test.

Roughly half, or 54.4%, of the bacteria identified in the samples represented the genera Propionibacteria, Corynebacteria, Staphylococcus and Streptococcus, which have long been considered more or less permanent residents in human skin.

The six individuals differed markedly in the overall composition of the bacterial populations on their skin. They only had four species of bacteria in common: Propionibacterium acnes, Corynebacterium tuberculostearicum, Streptococcus mitis, and Finegoldia AB109769. "This is a surprise," says Dr. Gao. "But many things affecting the skin affect bacteria, such as the weather, exposure to light, and cosmetics use."

Almost three-quarters, or 71.4%, of the total number of bacterial species were unique to individual subjects, suggesting that the skin surface is highly diversified in terms of the bacteria it harbors, according to the study.

Three bacterial species were only found in the male subjects: Propionibacterium granulosum, Corynebacterium singulare, and Corynebacterium appendixes. While the sample is too small to draw conclusions, the scientists believe that women and men may harbor some different bacterial species on their skin.

In each individual, the bacterial populations varied over time while revealing a core set of bacteria for each individual. "The predominant bacteria don't change much," says Dr. Gao. "But the more transient bacteria did change over time," she says.

"What that suggests," adds Dr. Blaser, "is that there is a scaffold of bacteria present in everybody's skin. Some stay and others come and go."

Finding the method

To obtain a sample Dr. Gao rubbed a swab on each individual's forearms. "We didn't tell them to be particularly clean, we just made sure they didn't take antibiotics up to one month prior to the test," Dr. Gao explains. She chose three men and three women to have a balance of genders. She set up a clean room so the samples didn't risk contamination.

Traditionally, bacteria are cultured in the lab in petri dishes, which contain a medium to grow bacteria. But the method leads to inaccuracies, she explains, because only a fraction of bacteria in a sample grow in that medium. So the team used a powerful molecular method that involved extracting a subunit of genetic material called 16S ribosomal DNA from the samples. "It is kind of a common currency, it's a conserved gene," says Dr. Blaser. Another advantage is that there is a large database of 16S ribosomal DNA available to scientists.

The ambitious task for this study was to gather samples, prepare them, amplify the bacteria creating colonies of each single species of bacteria present in the skin samples. Then Dr. Gao used established tools--primers--to pick out the species-specific genetic regions in the bacteria. After sequencing those regions, the 16S ribosomal DNA (rDNA) in each colony, she consulted 16S rDNA databases to determine the bacterial species present in each sample. Many bacteria in the database only exist as sequences and have nether been named or extensively studied. Those are termed SLOTUs, or species-level taxonomic units.

Taxonomy and the study results

To distinguish organisms from one another, biologists group and categorize them. Species or SLOTUs are small categories. There are larger groupings such as genera and phyla. Humans, for example, belong to the phylum chordata, the genus Homo and the species Homo sapiens.

The molecular method used in this study revealed differences between the bacterial populations in individuals. Other methods had previously not shown those differences.

The team found a total of 182 species or SLOTUs and 91 genera of bacteria in the skin samples.

The samples yielded mainly three phyla of bacteria: Actinobacteria, Firmicutes, and Proteobacteria. Ninety-four point six percent of the bacteria were in these phyla. These phyla were found in all six tested individuals. When compared with earlier studies, the researchers found that these three phyla are also dominant in the esophagus and the stomach. In terms of bacterial species, however, the insides of the body, for example the stomach, and the exterior of the body, the skin, show vast differences in bacterial populations.

Skin condition can change markedly due to a variety of factors such as climate, diet, personal hygiene, and disease. But skin is never devoid of bacteria, particularly its more permanent residents. That is not bad news, after all, in healthy individuals these bacteria are not pathogens. "Without good bacteria, the body could not survive," says Dr. Gao.

The next step for the research team is to look at diseased skin. "We plan to ask the question: Are the microbes in diseased skin, in certain diseases like psoriasis or eczema, different than the microbes in normal skin?" says Dr. Blaser.

The study was funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH), by a Senior Scholar Award from the Ellison Medical Foundation, and by the Diane Belfer Program in Human Microbial Ecology in Health. The authors of the study are Zhan Gao, M.D, Chi-hong Tseng, Ph.D., Zhiheng Pei, M.D., Ph.D, and Martin J. Blaser, M.D.

I tried this recently. No use crying about spilt milk (on your head, literally). The smell didn't really go away and I thought it would help, but I kept thinking I smelt like one of the visitors from "Alien Nation".

So my question is, if milk is bad for us - isn't this extremely bad for hair? If we're not drinking it because of hair, than why would you want it right on top of your head and in your hair?

I realize Kefir is not exactly "milk", and I love a glass of daily Kefir, but it's derived from milk.

PS- Don't try Kombucha on your head. Seems to damage the hair.

Not all milk is bad. Raw milk is extremely beneficial for hair. It doesn't cause inflammation and is nutritious. Kefir made from raw milk is a very healthy food. I don't know how using it topically works but I know yogurt is used topically by some and kefir beats yogurt.

About the kombucha, what happened when you used it?

jersey wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote:thelibrarian - My website design skills are seriously lacking also, but I thought about placing a donation area somewhere just to help offset the general operating cost which the google ads often fail to do. I think the readers here are too knowledgeable to click on them anyway, LOL.

I can send a small donatation to show my appreciation for all you do and to keep this site out of the red.

Donation sent

Again, thanks for all the great information and help!

jersey - Thank you very much! Times 10!

Zerx, I'm not sure if Kombucha is good for hair as an internal. But topically, it felt really thin and static-like after using it. Apple cider seems better topically. I don't know if drinking kombucha would help with hair loss or other conditions. But as of now I'd have to say topically this and kefir are a no-go for me and I will stick with them as internals until more results come in for topical.

Well i think That TK is good think. I can ´t use milk kefir (flaky skin and increased amount of dandruff) so I made Home water K. My skin is not so flaky but the inflammation has raised with TK. I suffer from dry skin so maybe i should stop aplly TK until i ´ll treat it.

nid,

do you still use the Agrimony-Oil? What's your mind about it?

nidhogge wrote:

Also purchased Agrimony Oil...