Chili powder and Cayenne powder

Icanbeatthis Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:43 pm

Hey!

I recently bought some organic chili and cayenne powder (spices), would you guys think this could have a negative effect on hair?

I love spicy foods and just want to make sure it's not something that could potentialy hurt my hair.

Thanks!

lund Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:56 am

I think this has been discussed here on this board before. Some of the members reported negatives with Cayenne for hair. It is kind of a bummer as cayenne is so useful otherwise.

It is possible that the increased blood circulation abilities of Cayenne exacerbates the already fragile hair environment with ppl prone to this problem - whatevern in the blood is hurting the hair, if more gets there, it would not be productive...

johnt Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:05 am

I wonder if it's circulating dht? Regardless, it seems strange that the phenomenon is occurring in some people since improved circulation is a positive thing for many aspects of health. I've been on about 6 grams of 100 h.u. cayenne per day for about 4 mos now and haven't noticed any shedding, but then again, I am on the complete IH Regimen and that, I feel, really helps deal with the damage dht has on the hair.

jksl Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:22 am

lund wrote:I think this has been discussed here on this board before. Some of the members reported negatives with Cayenne for hair. It is kind of a bummer as cayenne is so useful otherwise.

It is possible that the increased blood circulation abilities of Cayenne exacerbates the already fragile hair environment with ppl prone to this problem - whatevern in the blood is hurting the hair, if more gets there, it would not be productive...

Some? I only remember one person claiming that it did harm...

CausticSymmetry Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:28 am

A lot has been written about cayenne. I have tried it on numerous occasions both topically and internally. Personally I do not think it helped to any measure that I could detect. Theoretically a small dose would be helpful and since cayenne is a CB1 receptor blocker I had thought it would fight neurogenic inflammation. Based on experience with it during stressful times I didn't feel that it worked in that capacity.

Here is an interesting study on its effect on alopecia areata (this includes photographs).

http://www.nature.com/jidsp/journal/v9/n1/full/5640137a.html

lund Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:33 am

Perhaps this explains why Cayenne is problematic for hair...

A hot new twist to hair biology: involvement of vanilloid receptor-1 (VR1/TRPV1) signaling in human hair growth control.Bodó E, Bíró T, Telek A, Czifra G, Griger Z, Tóth BI, Mescalchin A, Ito T, Bettermann A, Kovács L, Paus R.
Department of Physiology, University of Debrecen, MHSC, 4012 Debrecen, Nagyerdei krt. 98., Hungary.

The vanilloid receptor-1 (VR1, or transient receptor potential vanilloid-1 receptor, TRPV1) is activated by capsaicin, the key ingredient of hot peppers. TRPV1 was originally described on sensory neurons as a central integrator of various nociceptive stimuli. However, several human skin cell populations are also now recognized to express TRPV1, but with unknown function. Exploiting the human hair follicle (HF) as a prototypic epithelial-mesenchymal interaction system, we have characterized the HF expression of TRPV1 in situ and have examined TRPV1 signaling in organ-cultured human scalp HF and outer root sheath (ORS) keratinocytes in vitro. TRPV1 immunoreactivity was confined to distinct epithelial compartments of the human HF, mainly to the ORS and hair matrix. In organ culture, TRPV1 activation by capsaicin resulted in a dose-dependent and TRPV1-specific inhibition of hair shaft elongation, suppression of proliferation, induction of apoptosis, premature HF regression (catagen), and up-regulation of intrafollicular transforming growth factor-beta(2). Cultured human ORS keratinocytes also expressed functional TRPV1, whose stimulation inhibited proliferation, induced apoptosis, elevated intracellular calcium concentration, up-regulated known endogenous hair growth inhibitors (interleukin-1beta, transforming growth factor-beta(2)), and down-regulated known hair growth promoters (hepatocyte growth factor, insulin-like growth factor-I, stem cell factor). These findings strongly support TRPV1 as a significant novel player in human hair growth control, underscore the physiological importance of TRPV1 in human skin beyond nociception, and identify TRPV1 as a promising, novel target for pharmacological manipulations of epithelial growth disorders.

CausticSymmetry Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:16 am

lund - When this study came out I had noticed that they literally bathed follicles in Capsaicin for a period of time, a much different effect than from ingesting it. But nevertheless, from trying it topically (it was not destructive nor beneficial) and from internal dosing, it did not seem to provide any benefit, maybe even a negative.

I guess one question is how much Capsaicin is required to activate TRPV1? It is dose dependent, but channel TRPV1 channels in human hair follicle be activated taking it orally?

lund Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:34 am

Well, is not SLS activate TRPV1 as well, and a such bad for your hair? And that amount of SLS in your shampoo and conditioners/detergents are not oozing in quantity, right?

It appears that TRPV1 activation is dose dependent - more you take it more it activates. Researching this, I was merely looking to see how cayenne can be linked to hair - and atleast there appears to be a direct link via TRPV1 (to me).

Taking 1/4 to 1 spoonfulls of the hottest of Cayenne peppers is no joke - certainly this seems to be a therapeutic dosage to me. Interestingly the mechanism involves Ca+ channels, something folks here are looking at as well.

Surfactant-Induced TRPV1 Activity—A Novel Mechanism for Eye Irritation?

The pain receptor transient receptor potential vanilloid type 1 (TRPV1) has been reported as one of the key components in the pain pathway. Activation of the receptor causes a Ca2+ influx with secondary effects leading to neurogenic inflammation. Here we report specific activation of TRPV1 by detergent-containing hygiene products measured as intracellular Ca2+ influxes in stably TRPV1-expressing neuroblastoma SH-SY5Y cells. Children products marketed as "painless" (containing lower concentration of detergents), and conditioners (without detergents) did not induce specific TRPV1 activation. Furthermore, low concentrations of the detergent sodium lauryl sulfate dose-dependently induced Ca2+ influxes that could be addressed to TRPV1. [b]

The Natural Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:24 pm

jksl wrote:
lund wrote:I think this has been discussed here on this board before. Some of the members reported negatives with Cayenne for hair. It is kind of a bummer as cayenne is so useful otherwise.

It is possible that the increased blood circulation abilities of Cayenne exacerbates the already fragile hair environment with ppl prone to this problem - whatevern in the blood is hurting the hair, if more gets there, it would not be productive...

Some? I only remember one person claiming that it did harm...

That was I. I also stated that cayenne, in lower dosages, may not have a negative effect. I was taking 1 -2 450 mg. of cayenne pepper a day. Maybe it was too much. And if recall correctly, there were others (years ago at Regrowth.com) with a similar experience to mine: accelerated loss hair.

CausticSymmetry Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:32 pm

lund - Very interesting about SLS and TRPV1

hapyman Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:51 am

jksl wrote:
Some? I only remember one person claiming that it did harm...

I posted here a little while back and reported excessive shedding too. Not sure if it was a "beneficial" shed but I didn't want to stick it out and about 1 week after stopping my shedding slowed.

Could there be any truth to the increased blood flow could actually be detrimental?

hadrion Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:55 am

I'm stuck on cayenne. I had cluster headaches for months and upon introducing cayenne they have disappeared so I can't drop it.

lund Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:10 am

hadrion - that's a shame, in the alternative medicine community cayenne has been nothing short of a miracle find (based on the experiences and cures reported) - however, atleast there appears *some* evidence that it might not be so good for hair. But again, we do not know how much is detrimental - perhaps a good protocol would be to titrate the dosage down until your symptoms reappear and keep your dosage a little above that - some trial and error to find your threshold...

Also, have you experienced any continued shedding over the course?

ppm Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:11 am

How come? In studies, capsaicin and isofalvone have been shown to grow hair in about 50% of subjects. Even so with raspberry ketone (mimicking capsaicin).

lund Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:15 am

[quote="hapyman"]

jksl wrote:
...Could there be any truth to the increased blood flow could actually be detrimental?

I think atleast one angle of hair shedding on cayenne researchers have proved is via the TRPVI activation - which is nothing to do with increased circulation. Now are there additional factors involved due to increased circulation, it is possible...

lund Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:22 am

Interestingly, cayenne can make you loose weight....

The Skinny on TRPV1

"...During the last decade numerous articles have been published linking human capsaicin intake to factors that would aid in weight loss and maintenance. Red pepper consumption was shown to increase energy expenditure and lipid oxidation8 as well as decrease appetite.9,10 Although the mechanisms underlying these effects are not fully understood, it has been proposed that capsaicin stimulates sensory neurons in the mouth and gastrointestinal tract resulting in increased noradrenaline levels.11 Findings from Zhang and colleagues now report a second mechanism through which capsaicin may aid in weight loss. Their work suggests that capsaicin activates a TRPV1 channel, and promotes calcium entry that is necessary to prevent preadipocyte-to-adipocyte differentiation. TRPV1 activation may ultimately reduce the number and size of fat cells, and therefore reduce the propensity for obesity to develop..."

lund Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:27 am

ppm, it gets a lot easier if you can please link the research you are referencing - otherwise we end up doing all the hard work again that you may have already accomplished.

It is possible we have conflicting research out there regarding capsaicin, I linked the research that proves why this would hurt hair growth - may be there is other published research that counters this position?

ppm wrote:How come? In studies, capsaicin and isofalvone have been shown to grow hair in about 50% of subjects. Even so with raspberry ketone (mimicking capsaicin).

ppm Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:34 am

Yes ofcourse. I had to retrieve them.

Growth Horm IGF Res. 2007 Jun 12; [Epub ahead of print]
Administration of capsaicin and isoflavone promotes hair growth by increasing insulin-like growth factor-I production in mice and in humans with alopecia.
Harada N, Okajima K, Arai M, Kurihara H, Nakagata N.

Department of Translational Medical Science Research, Nagoya City University, Graduate School of Medical Sciences, Kawasumi 1, Mizuho-cho, Mizuho-ku, Nagoya 467-8601, Japan.

OBJECTIVE: Insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) plays an important role in hair growth. Capsaicin activates vanilloid receptor-1, thereby increasing the release of calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) from sensory neurons, and CGRP has been shown to increase IGF-I production. We recently reported that isoflavone, a phytoestrogen, increases production of CGRP by increasing its transcription in sensory neurons. These observations raise the possibility that administration of capsaicin and isoflavone might promote hair growth by increasing IGF-I production. In the present study, we examined this possibility in mice and humans with alopecia. DESIGN: Dermal IGF-I levels, immunohistochemical expression of IGF-I in the skin and hair regrowth were examined after capsaicin and isoflavone administration to wild-type (WT) mice and CGRP-knockout mice. Plasma levels of IGF-I and promotion of hair growth were evaluated in 48 volunteers with alopecia after administration of capsaicin and isoflavone for 5months. RESULTS: Subcutaneous administration of capsaicin significantly increased dermal IGF-I levels at 30min after administration in WT mice (p<0.01), but not in CGRP-knockout mice. Dermal levels of IGF-I were significantly higher in WT mice administered capsaicin and isoflavone for 4wks than in those administered capsaicin alone for 4wks (p<0.01) and in those administered neither of them (p<0.01). Immunohistochemical expression of IGF-I at dermal papillae in hair follicles was increased in WT mice administered capsaicin and isoflavone and in those administered capsaicin alone at 4wks. Hair regrowth was clearly more accelerated in WT mice administered capsaicin and isoflavone for 4wks than in those administered capsaicin alone for 4wks and in those administered neither of them. Plasma levels of IGF-I were significantly increased from baseline levels in 31 volunteers with alopecia at 5months after oral administration of capsaicin (6mg/day) and isoflavone (75mg/day) (p<0.01), while they were not increased in 17 volunteers with alopecia administered placebo. The number of volunteers with alopecia who showed promotion of hair growth at 5months after administration was significantly higher among volunteers administered capsaicin and isoflavone (20/31: 64.5%) than among those administered placebo (2/17: 11.8%) (p<0.01). CONCLUSIONS: These observations strongly suggested that combined administration of capsaicin and isoflavone might increase IGF-I production in hair follicles in the skin, thereby promoting hair growth. Such effects of capsaicin and isoflavone might be mediated by sensory neuron activation in the skin.

PMID: 17569567 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

Effect of topical application of raspberry ketone on dermal production of insulin-like growth factor-I in mice and on hair growth and skin elasticity in humans.
Harada N, Okajima K, Narimatsu N, Kurihara H, Nakagata N.

Department of Translational Medical Science Research, Nagoya City University Graduate School of Medical Sciences, Kawasumi 1, Mizuho-cho, Mizuho-ku, Nagoya 467-8601, Japan.

Sensory neurons release calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) on activation. We recently reported that topical application of capsaicin increases facial skin elasticity and promotes hair growth by increasing dermal insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) production through activation of sensory neurons in mice and humans. Raspberry ketone (RK), a major aromatic compound contained in red raspberries (Rubus idaeus), has a structure similar to that of capsaicin. Thus, it is possible that RK activates sensory neurons, thereby increasing skin elasticity and promoting hair growth by increasing dermal IGF-I production. In the present study, we examined this possibility in mice and humans. RK, at concentrations higher than 1 microM, significantly increased CGRP release from dorsal root ganglion neurons (DRG) isolated from wild-type (WT) mice and this increase was completely reversed by capsazepine, an inhibitor of vanilloid receptor-1 activation. Topical application of 0.01% RK increased dermal IGF-I levels at 30 min after application in WT mice, but not in CGRP-knockout mice. Topical application of 0.01% RK increased immunohistochemical expression of IGF-I at dermal papillae in hair follicles and promoted hair re-growth in WT mice at 4 weeks after the application. When applied topically to the scalp and facial skin, 0.01% RK promoted hair growth in 50.0% of humans with alopecia (n=10) at 5 months after application and increased cheek skin elasticity at 2 weeks after application in 5 females (p<0.04). These observations strongly suggest that RK might increase dermal IGF-I production through sensory neuron activation, thereby promoting hair growth and increasing skin elasticity.

PMID: 18321745 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

lund Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:52 am

Perhaps some expert can figure out how to further assess these conflicting findings - I see the Japanese study is newer, but the two are at complete odds. The NEW study says it increases IGF-I whereas the older study says it down-regulates it: grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

NEW: "...Topical application of 0.01% RK increased immunohistochemical expression of IGF-I at dermal papillae in hair follicles..."

OLD: "...and down-regulated known hair growth promoters (hepatocyte growth factor, insulin-like growth factor-I, stem cell factor)..."

lund Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:56 am

In the 1st study 2 items were taken together (capsaicin and isoflavone) and in the 2nd study the research was on a different agent (although stated to be similar in structure to cayenne) - so some additional points to think about...

If one accepts this research position, then perhaps augmeting cayenne with isoflavone would be a prudent approach?

What has been the results from folks trying raspberry ketone?

CausticSymmetry Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:14 am

lund - Yes, I have read every study on cayenne and it is very conflicting. There is another study for instance that shows it improves the efficacy of minoxidil.

In the study you mentioned with isoflavones, note how low the doses were for the cayenne, also that was for alopecia areata subjects. The raspberry ketone requires a very specific dose and if it's off at all will not work. I believe very few are still using it.

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