Another liver topic - HFCS induced damage

I'm becoming more aware of the amount of fructose I consume in a day, whether high-fructose corn syrup or just fruits/veggies. I scoured the forum looking for HFCS effects on the liver. Much like CS, the first 25 years of my life involved an incredible amount of fructose, for example daily sandwiches (white bread, condiments), a carbonated beverage, piece of fruit, snack cakes, you name it....the typical "kids lunch". All this MUST have an effect on the liver, unless you were a fruitarian, nowhere in nature does one consume this incredible amount of fructose.

So, this leads to some fun questions!

1.) How many others here can relate?
2.) I've reduced HFCS consumption probably 75% in the last 2 years. Would the liver naturally begin to rejuvenate itself, or would it still remain "clogged" with fat/scarring until the proper supplements come along?
3.) I'm pretty thin, but my belly sticks out somewhat. I've worked on leaky gut lately, but read the liver could be involved too. Truth to this, and is it related?

and lastly, most important,

4.) What can be done to reverse a long-term fructose-damaged liver?

Currently on ALA and Curcumin in terms of liver. Would krill oil be beneficial for this situation?


Any advice is really appreciated!!

Smurfy wrote:I'm becoming more aware of the amount of fructose I consume in a day, whether high-fructose corn syrup or just fruits/veggies. I scoured the forum looking for HFCS effects on the liver. Much like CS, the first 25 years of my life involved an incredible amount of fructose, for example daily sandwiches (white bread, condiments), a carbonated beverage, piece of fruit, snack cakes, you name it....the typical "kids lunch". All this MUST have an effect on the liver, unless you were a fruitarian, nowhere in nature does one consume this incredible amount of fructose.

So, this leads to some fun questions!

1.) How many others here can relate?
2.) I've reduced HFCS consumption probably 75% in the last 2 years. Would the liver naturally begin to rejuvenate itself, or would it still remain "clogged" with fat/scarring until the proper supplements come along?
3.) I'm pretty thin, but my belly sticks out somewhat. I've worked on leaky gut lately, but read the liver could be involved too. Truth to this, and is it related?

and lastly, most important,

4.) What can be done to reverse a long-term fructose-damaged liver?

Currently on ALA and Curcumin in terms of liver. Would krill oil be beneficial for this situation?


Any advice is really appreciated!!

Everything you're taking is beneficial. Curcumin and lipoic acid reduce fat in the liver. Krill Oil also helps.

You can add NAC if you want extra protection.

Interesting interesting... the extra protection sounds good. I'd rather gain ground than just maintain.

On the topic, is premature gray related to liver health at all? I googled the subject and couldn't really find a stable answer. It would make a ton of sense if it's true though, but likewise I won't rule out genetics. Just seems very coincidental that I'd recede and heavily gray during the same time period.

I was considering molasses for the copper, but somehow adding more sugar daily just seems counter-productive. Hmmmm...

Ormus copper?

Smurfy wrote:Interesting interesting... the extra protection sounds good. I'd rather gain ground than just maintain.

On the topic, is premature gray related to liver health at all? I googled the subject and couldn't really find a stable answer. It would make a ton of sense if it's true though, but likewise I won't rule out genetics. Just seems very coincidental that I'd recede and heavily gray during the same time period.

I was considering molasses for the copper, but somehow adding more sugar daily just seems counter-productive. Hmmmm...

Ormus copper?

There are three ways the hair can become gray.

A drop in catalase (allows more hydroxyl radicals to break down the melanin or pigment for hair),
a under performing thyroid, and finally a way that I still need to confirm, but it is plausible; calcium build-up from lack of hydrochloric acid production.

CausticSymmetry wrote:

Smurfy wrote:Interesting interesting... the extra protection sounds good. I'd rather gain ground than just maintain.

On the topic, is premature gray related to liver health at all? I googled the subject and couldn't really find a stable answer. It would make a ton of sense if it's true though, but likewise I won't rule out genetics. Just seems very coincidental that I'd recede and heavily gray during the same time period.

I was considering molasses for the copper, but somehow adding more sugar daily just seems counter-productive. Hmmmm...

Ormus copper?

There are three ways the hair can become gray.

A drop in catalase (allows more hydroxyl radicals to break down the melanin or pigment for hair),
a under performing thyroid, and finally a way that I still need to confirm, but it is plausible; calcium build-up from lack of hydrochloric acid production.

I'm giving some pretty serious thought to all of these. Is there an age-dependent factor in any of these? I've been getting gray since I was 13 or 14, yet still close to a 40/60 (gray/color) blend 13 years later. My parents were gray prior to reaching 30 as well, but I'm on course to still have some color by then.

The catalase idea is worth some thought, I've had a fairly malnourished, emotionally stressed life up till lately, radicals could play a part. But the gray seems almost in a pattern, so I don't know if it's pertinent.

Thyroid... would make sense, my parents are always cold and find temperatures under 65 to be "a little chilly". If I grew up following their routine, could it just be an epidemic of sluggish thyroid? In that event, I've been on Lugol's since last summer, anywhere from 2-8 drops a day.

Your last one, lack of acid, would be news to me. What might contribute to such a problem? Also, like the Lugol's, I've been spraying Mag Oil on my skin for the last 9 months. This seems like it would be effective as far as calcium buildup, unless it's more of a localized problem.

Thanks for stepping in here, I get teased quite a bit by friends, and family just say "ha ha you're next in line!"
I appreciate some seriousness for once. I don't buy the genetic excuse for this anymore.

Smurfy, how old are you? For graying hair, if you have not tried Fo Ti, it is worth a shot. Some people tend to have a dramatic effect from it, some not so much. A few years back I used it for a couple of months, and whatever little gray hair I had then immediately vanished. Some people also raise the 'gyno' alarm for it, so do your research first before you decide for or against it. Imho, it would be a better idea to use one bottled in the East.

cheers,
-9r5-

Hi 9r5, thanks for the input.

I'm 26. I used a Now brand bottle of fo-ti back in 2009, just one bottle, the 500mg ones I believe it was. If I recall, I took one capsule every day or every other day to make them last. I was new to the herbal scene at that point and wasn't sure it was safe to try. Also I wasn't sure of the potency or freshness of it. I do recall a month into it getting quite a few "spikes" of new hairs scattered around, whether or not it was due to the fo-ti, who knows. Regards to grays, sometimes it's very hard to tell. Occasionally I find hair a strand that goes dark, to clear, to dark, to clear, all in a 4-inch length, as if the pigment is unstable

Anyways, is it in your opinion that I give this a real hardcore try? This must mean you believe it involves the liver and adrenals somehow. Perhaps a higher dose and more consistency would help. I'll check out a whole bunch of brands, unless you know of a good one, like what worked for you.

Fructose depends on dose and context.

If you are a young male who doesn't have much abdominal fat and exercises I would honestly not worry about daily fructose consumption up to 70g.

Smurfy wrote:Hi 9r5, thanks for the input.

I'm 26. I used a Now brand bottle of fo-ti back in 2009, just one bottle, the 500mg ones I believe it was. If I recall, I took one capsule every day or every other day to make them last. I was new to the herbal scene at that point and wasn't sure it was safe to try. Also I wasn't sure of the potency or freshness of it. I do recall a month into it getting quite a few "spikes" of new hairs scattered around, whether or not it was due to the fo-ti, who knows. Regards to grays, sometimes it's very hard to tell. Occasionally I find hair a strand that goes dark, to clear, to dark, to clear, all in a 4-inch length, as if the pigment is unstable

Anyways, is it in your opinion that I give this a real hardcore try? This must mean you believe it involves the liver and adrenals somehow. Perhaps a higher dose and more consistency would help. I'll check out a whole bunch of brands, unless you know of a good one, like what worked for you.

Smurfy, of late I'm gravitating to the held theory of the Orient that hair-related problems are due to weakened kidney Chi. Of course, they say kidney, but I suspect that adrenals (and the other related glands) are involved here, although not directly mentioned by TCM. It might be they viewed kidney and adrenal functions as one. A less than optimal liver might also have a secondary role in this.

Here's a good article on Fo Ti upon a quick google search. Notice the dosage in the studies which seems to be fairly high.
http://www.itmonline.org/arts/hoshouwu.htm

Also notice that this article studies alopecia and alopecia areata, not graying, although Fo Ti is very much popular for graying. It is best that if you choose to got for a regular try at Fo Ti, do so as per the recommended dosage on the bottle- it should be 3 times a day, and whatever no. of pills the packaging recommends. I'd recommend that you ignore the high dosage of study, and also your one pill a day, or alternate day idea, and take as recommended by manufacturer. Also, Fo Ti is one herb, but it is bottled in a synergistic way with many other herbs with traditional processing methods. This is typical of TCM and ayurvedic medicines. And that is how I feel Fo Ti should be taken, and not as a single herb.

I'm afraid I can't recommend a particular brand or combination for this, as I've not used it in years. The web is your friend, I did some good researching at the time I was looking into this, and I recommend it to you. Search google checkout, tcm sites, etc, for grey hair formulae- and check if they have Fo Ti in them, and if they seem to be trusted. And then go for it, if you decide to.

People seem to be praise or slam a herb (or herbal combination), but the fact remains that many a times there isn't a one size fits all solution. Eg, glucosamine really works for some with joint problems, others like to diss it. See what works for you. If you try Fo Ti, you should give it a minimum 2-3 months.

best,
-9r5-

abc123 wrote:Fructose depends on dose and context.

If you are a young male who doesn't have much abdominal fat and exercises I would honestly not worry about daily fructose consumption up to 70g.

I'm really not sure how much I consume numerically speaking, but 70 sounds like an awful lot. Typically it's a banana once in a while, handful of grapes, condiments such as bbq sauce, ketchup, mayo, but fairly small amounts. It was from a couple years ago and earlier where it was massive soft drinks, ketchup, candy, etc. Just really focused on residual damage, not so much what my intake is nowadays.

And for the record, not much abdominal fat, mostly visceral I assume, since I'm not really in great workout shape...

9rugrats5 wrote:Smurfy, of late I'm gravitating to the held theory of the Orient that hair-related problems are due to weakened kidney Chi. Of course, they say kidney, but I suspect that adrenals (and the other related glands) are involved here, although not directly mentioned by TCM. It might be they viewed kidney and adrenal functions as one. A less than optimal liver might also have a secondary role in this.

Here's a good article on Fo Ti upon a quick google search. Notice the dosage in the studies which seems to be fairly high.
http://www.itmonline.org/arts/hoshouwu.htm

Also notice that this article studies alopecia and alopecia areata, not graying, although Fo Ti is very much popular for graying. It is best that if you choose to got for a regular try at Fo Ti, do so as per the recommended dosage on the bottle- it should be 3 times a day, and whatever no. of pills the packaging recommends. I'd recommend that you ignore the high dosage of study, and also your one pill a day, or alternate day idea, and take as recommended by manufacturer. Also, Fo Ti is one herb, but it is bottled in a synergistic way with many other herbs with traditional processing methods. This is typical of TCM and ayurvedic medicines. And that is how I feel Fo Ti should be taken, and not as a single herb.

I'm afraid I can't recommend a particular brand or combination for this, as I've not used it in years. The web is your friend, I did some good researching at the time I was looking into this, and I recommend it to you. Search google checkout, tcm sites, etc, for grey hair formulae- and check if they have Fo Ti in them, and if they seem to be trusted. And then go for it, if you decide to.

People seem to be praise or slam a herb (or herbal combination), but the fact remains that many a times there isn't a one size fits all solution. Eg, glucosamine really works for some with joint problems, others like to diss it. See what works for you. If you try Fo Ti, you should give it a minimum 2-3 months.

best,
-9r5-

I don't question the knowledge of TCM either. I'm surprised I never came upon that link you sent in my google travels. That was a great read! I'm going to give it a good honest go. Luckily the stuff is cheap. In that reading, they mentioned up to 6 grams a day. I will probably try 1 gram twice a day for a few weeks at least. I'll heed your advice and seek a mixture-deal with supporting herbs, if possible. There is a definite endocrine link in all of this, and Fo Ti covers many of the areas. Though I still wonder what the mechanisms are behind it... high zinc is a definite player, that's a fact.

Smurfy wrote:
I'm really not sure how much I consume numerically speaking, but 70 sounds like an awful lot. Typically it's a banana once in a while, handful of grapes, condiments such as bbq sauce, ketchup, mayo, but fairly small amounts. It was from a couple years ago and earlier where it was massive soft drinks, ketchup, candy, etc. Just really focused on residual damage, not so much what my intake is nowadays.

And for the record, not much abdominal fat, mostly visceral I assume, since I'm not really in great workout shape...

Hi Smurf

Don't worry about your fructose intake now. Fruit is fine because of its fiber content. Ketchup and mayo are very small amounts and will not harm you. The healthy range for fructose intake could be between 30-150 grams depending on context. You won't be getting over 30 grams with your current diet.

Visceral fat and abdominal fat go hand in hand (think pot belly). I would recommend exercise and counting calories to reduce any excess fat you are carrying. If you are still worried you could try Curcumin, Lipoic acid, or Whey. They are all good for fatty liver.

Good Luck.

Smurfy wrote:
There is a definite endocrine link in all of this, and Fo Ti covers many of the areas. Though I still wonder what the mechanisms are behind it... high zinc is a definite player, that's a fact.

I totally agree with your thought. There is definitely seems to be a big endocrine piece in the hair puzzle. Agree about the zinc too- how to find the most bioavailable and natural source of zinc is key, imho, and again it may be in a combination, not in a single compound.

Some more thoughts on the kidney and liver Qi angle. See here-
http://acupunctureschoolonline.com/heal-dark-circles-with-traditional-chinese-medicine.html

Quoting-
"The weakening of kidney energy is accompanied by two or more of the following symptoms: back and knee pain, fatigue, frequent urination, menstrual disorders, infertility, ejaculation problems, impotence, hair-loss, premature gray hair, tinnitus, or hearing-loss."

Add dark circles under the eyes to those, too. Note the occurrence of fatigue there. Hmm, and they still do not mention adrenals :-)

It seems even now, little is understood about the extent of interaction of the endocrine system, and how it may be disturbed. There's also definitely a link there with the Indian chakra system and the TCM Meridians there.

Some techy talk here (beyond me)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic%E2%80%93pituitary%E2%80%93adrenal_axis

And last, but not the least, the importance of the thyroid, which many keep reminding here at IH too.

cheers,
-9r5-

Abc-

Thanks you put my mind at ease. With all the recent hype around fructose and how bad it is, I just got really paranoid I suppose. What you're saying makes a lot of sense. A little can't cause harm to a healthy liver and system. As for fat, I'm definitely not flat-chested, but I don't have a beer-belly either. It sticks out some, but not enough where I look overweight. Some routine exercise should really help with it. To sum it all up - you're right!


9r5-

The fact that Fo-Ti is capable of these changes, given that zinc has a huge role, would seem that whatever form of zinc it's in is a great highly available form. In your list there, notice how the reproductive system is entwined with the endocrine. It's known that semen and T production need zinc.

Here's a good site on zinc, though it's a big read: http://www.gghjournal.com/volume22/1/featureArticle.cfm

It points out that zinc is related to growth hormone levels, which in turn are directly related to quality of hair. This really could be as easy as connecting the dots.

Zinc deficiency may adversely affect GH production and/or secretion.26 IGF-I synthesis may also be impaired by Zn deficiency since exogenous GH fails to raise IGF-I levels in Zn-deficient rats.27 Low IGF-I levels in Zn-deprived rats were closely associated with a decreased hepatic IGF-I gene expression and with a diminution of liver GH receptors and circulating GHBP. The decreased hepatic GH receptors and/or GHBP concentrations might be responsible for the decline of circulating IGF-I in Zn-deficient animals.28

Personal experience: 1 month into using colostrum, to raise growth hormone levels, and hair is very good shape, little if any falls out unless I pull it out myself. It would be interesting to see the zinc content of it.

But back to your points, fatigue and adrenals, those were good links you showed... obviously bodily indicators of internal stress and the need to recover. Interesting though, I do have mid-back and lower-back aches often~

Maybe kidneys are a larger indicator than we realize too!

Found a good link about Kidney Meridian. This is from an acupuncturist perspective, of course, but the layman in me feels these points hold a value even for those without access to an acupuncturist. Pressing/ massaging these points could be beneficial.

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/theory/chinese/kidney_meridian_disharmonies

-9r5-

Interesting link, it breaks things down nicely, however I can't really pinpoint which I fall under. The closest would be KD Yang Deficiency. I'll see what I make out of this. Even besides massage/pressure, there could be other means of healing particular regions if they are associated. Pretty thorough guide nonetheless.