year one update from me

Unfortunately I hate to say this.. but i really think the biggest mistake I ever made was going off rogaine and starting brushing. Before I did this, my hair actually looked great when I kept it short (you only could tell I was balding if you stared at my scalp intensely). I had been using rogaine consistently for 6 years when I stopped in July '12 and all my hair proceeded to fall out. I religiously brushed with a boar bristle brush every damn day for 4 months twice a day for 5 minutes, with NO improvement except the fact that my head wasnt shiny bald, just bald.

Again I'm not trying to discourage any method, just my personal experience. My entire senior year I looked skin head bald because of that decision. Now I just compared pics from this month to this month last year, and theres barely been improvement and that only because I got back on the rogaine November '12. I still brush 2 times a day right before the rogaine... Im considering stopping the brushing at this point to due to the lack of significant change. Like I said i threw away 6 years straight of something that worked, be careful with your decision.

I am not fear mongering anyone away from manuals, I legitimately tried it and was actively posting in this thread because I was hopeful. If I could go back, I wish I would never have found this forum lol. Matter of fact right now im even trying to use my mind power to recreate a placebo effect that will grow hair. Its proven that the placebo effect works, so why not try to harness it.

It should have been 5 minutes and thirty seconds of brushing. You were so close. Plus you weren't massaging with emu oil.

Only kidding of course. Thank you for the honest update.

I'm curious, what was your diet/supplementation regimen like during these periods? Trust me, I'm not going to come back with a "well, if you'd only included this and cut this out, you'd of succeeded". I am just wondering what the regimen looked like.

My diet was the same shitty fast food/ diner food diet it had been for the first 3 years when my hair still looked pretty decent. I found diet has no real effect on my hair when im using rogaine. I never used anything supplements before summer 2012, except for multivitamins and vitamin D and B. Then I got on curcumin/reveratrol, taurine, gingko biloba, coq10, arginine, and then e cava in february 2013, which i guess make me feel good, but no DRASTIC effect on my hair, as far as I know. It may have helped it grow back a bit faster but thats it probably.

Im going to go into a confusing explanation of what happened. When I started using rogaine back in maybe 2007 i had long hair so I probably wasnt reaching my scalp... eventually I began to buzz but my hair in 2008 and by 2009 i didn't have the greatest hair or anything but it was still ok. 2010 wasnt great, I think it was like a shed year, for some reason. I stopped masterbating cold from december 2010-april 2011 if thats any pertinent. then somehow magically in summer 2011-summer 2012 my hair actually looked amazing at a buzz cut. it was dark and thick compared to 2009-2010. (I was orgasming lol, when it looked good so again i dont think it had a negative effect) and then summer 2012 I stopped using rogaine for 4 months, in addition to brushing and well i basically hit rock bottom. I am making a slowwwwww recovery but I think I am shedding again and fear that its gonna take 2+ years to get back to my 2011 state, if at all.

I am using audio recordings at night when I sleep and actively telling myself that my hair isnt falling and that it will grow back thick.. in addition to the rogaine to possibly help it work faster or something idk.

Rogaine for 6 years?  A lot of hairs would of been dependent on that stuff depending on how bad your hair loss was to begin with.

Sorry to hear that it didn't work, don't worry about feeling like you're discouraging people though it's just how things go some people see results some don't, you can even apply that to people that use fda drugs for hair loss.  It sucks.  hair loss is a bitch.

another possibility is that I didnt give it enough time.. but it was obvious that it wasnt getting any better to me. I might not be patient enough to have a totally bald head for 2-3 years to notice some regrowth if manual works lol. at this point I just wana go back to what my hair used to be, forget a full head of hair.

Though i'd never get a hair transplant, I wouldnt even mind opting for a hair cloning procedure if they actually figure that crap out before we die.

Dudebro,

Your diet of shitty fast food and diner food definitely has an effect on your hair. They put all the wrong fats in those foods that wreaks havoc on your metabolism. Do some research on hydrogenated oils and omega 3 to omega 6 balance, it's very important to understand these to prevent degenerative diseases including hair loss.

I think you focused too much on manuals when you first came in and that was never what this forum was about in the first place. Manuals are great when you have everything under control (diet, heavy metals, inflammation, hormones) but won't do much when there is such a great amount of metabolic stress. I know those manual method threads can get people excited and feel like it's a logical solution to hair loss but the battle needs to be fought internally first and foremost imo. I know a lot of people won't be willing to do the research to figure out what they need to do, but using minox and becoming drug dependent is not the answer.

mistermr,

i totally agree with you logically, at the same time I disagree. lol not arguing, but more so pointing out a true fact:

There are probably 5,000 other guys at the same school, eating either the same or worse diets as me, with SUBSTANTIALLY better hair with no sign of hair loss. There's something else to it man. There's a factor in this that is purely genetic (which I don't agree, because I think genetics can be controlled) or purely something that has to do with the way people think. I understand that diet, metabolic stress, heavy metals all may make hair worse, but then why are millions of guys immune to the same shit. I know one guy that will eat the absolutely worst foods imaginable and his hair is amazing. There are homeless people exposed to the nastiest shit imaginable with all their hair. Somethings up that I'm clearly not able to make a connection with because I probably won't do the research. Until then I'm gonna lather in the minox and keep thinking my hairs gonna grow back unfortunately.

dudebro wrote:mistermr,

i totally agree with you logically, at the same time I disagree. lol not arguing, but more so pointing out a true fact:

There are probably 5,000 other guys at the same school, eating either the same or worse diets as me, with SUBSTANTIALLY better hair with no sign of hair loss. There's something else to it man. There's a factor in this that is purely genetic (which I don't agree, because I think genetics can be controlled) or purely something that has to do with the way people think. I understand that diet, metabolic stress, heavy metals all may make hair worse, but then why are millions of guys immune to the same shit. I know one guy that will eat the absolutely worst foods imaginable and his hair is amazing. There are homeless people exposed to the nastiest shit imaginable with all their hair. Somethings up that I'm clearly not able to make a connection with because I probably won't do the research. Until then I'm gonna lather in the minox and keep thinking my hairs gonna grow back unfortunately.

Much of the people you are talking about likely will go through hair loss at some point especially in todays times.
Hair...Something that once worked fine is now no longer, and its not because your genetics decided to stop working, but various factors caused an increased sensitivity regarding this issue for you...There is always a reason why, you just dont understand that reason so your frustration is being directed in the wrong areas, such as your method of response to hair loss..
Your scalp did not start loosing hair because you didn't have enough rogaine in your life, but there are real deficiencies that are directly or indirectly responsible... Your hair also likely did not fall out worse because of manually stimulating, someone with healthy hair could do the same with no negative result. Thus lack/abundance of manual methods are not the cure for hair loss anymore than they are the cause... Rather, manual efforts are just a symptomatic response to decreased blood flow which stem from the various causes.
Though they can be helpful if you are aware of when they are needed and how ( Slowmoes threads contain better advice as far as manual efforts goes rather than obsessive brushing just as far as sheer mechanics are concerned )
And to conclude, since your not concerned enough to do the research as you noted yourself, then here's a second opinion that mistermr is correct, and you should keep looking in that direction or else you may be wasting your time and money with anything else...

987, thanks for the input, i dont disagree with what youre saying. I'm just tired of doing research; ive been researching since i was 13, and now at 22, I just dont give a crap anymore other than the visual look. actually, let me correct that, I care enough not to take propecia or a generic finastride. My point is, brushing it self was not a solution for me, thats all. In terms of overall mind state and happiness, I would have been better off to just stay on the rogaine. Im not shitting on manuals, as I still think manual techniques such as the scalp exercises and slowmoe's scalp scrunching or scalp tension relief might work BUT rogaine will be present for me.

Essentially rogaine is working by doing something with the nitric oxide release which is affecting blood flow, however I always found it "odd" that they never revealed how specifically it works because there might be a way to duplicate the effect without paying for minoxidil. I guarantee that pharma knows how rogaine is working. The journey continues my friends..

hey dude bro,

Sorry to read that you were not able to maintain your hair. This cat and mouse game to end hairloss seems never ending. Thanks for the feedback and I hope you can recover with minox.

dudebro wrote:Unfortunately I hate to say this.. but i really think the biggest mistake I ever made was going off rogaine and starting brushing. Before I did this, my hair actually looked great when I kept it short (you only could tell I was balding if you stared at my scalp intensely). I had been using rogaine consistently for 6 years when I stopped in July '12 and all my hair proceeded to fall out. I religiously brushed with a boar bristle brush every damn day for 4 months twice a day for 5 minutes, with NO improvement except the fact that my head wasnt shiny bald, just bald.

Again I'm not trying to discourage any method, just my personal experience. My entire senior year I looked skin head bald because of that decision. Now I just compared pics from this month to this month last year, and theres barely been improvement and that only because I got back on the rogaine November '12. I still brush 2 times a day right before the rogaine... Im considering stopping the brushing at this point to due to the lack of significant change. Like I said i threw away 6 years straight of something that worked, be careful with your decision.

I am not fear mongering anyone away from manuals, I legitimately tried it and was actively posting in this thread because I was hopeful. If I could go back, I wish I would never have found this forum lol. Matter of fact right now im even trying to use my mind power to recreate a placebo effect that will grow hair. Its proven that the placebo effect works, so why not try to harness it.

Hate to agree with ya bro, but I'm in the same boat. I lost almost 2 years worth of hair since quitting proven treatments, and it had never ever looked so bad. I finally started a minoxidil based product again (ZX42) because I heard there were no side effects. Not trying to promote the product, but it's only been close to 2 months, and just like every other time I've used minoxidil based treatments, it once again is already working. I am not seeing side effects like I did with other minoxidil treatments so far.

All this is to say that I don't regret learning more about health and well-being, but my conclusion after 2 years is that this board should not be called immortal hair. It should be immortal health. The board seems to be more focused on general health, and not truly on regrowth, at least not anything proven that has worked for me personally.

dudebro wrote:987, thanks for the input, i dont disagree with what youre saying. I'm just tired of doing research; ive been researching since i was 13, and now at 22, I just dont give a crap anymore other than the visual look. actually, let me correct that, I care enough not to take propecia or a generic finastride. My point is, brushing it self was not a solution for me, thats all. In terms of overall mind state and happiness, I would have been better off to just stay on the rogaine. Im not shitting on manuals, as I still think manual techniques such as the scalp exercises and slowmoe's scalp scrunching or scalp tension relief might work BUT rogaine will be present for me.

Essentially rogaine is working by doing something with the nitric oxide release which is affecting blood flow, however I always found it "odd" that they never revealed how specifically it works because there might be a way to duplicate the effect without paying for minoxidil. I guarantee that pharma knows how rogaine is working. The journey continues my friends..

I know exactly how you feel man, but I've searched for so many things to replace minoxidil, and honestly nothing works like it for me. On other hand, even if manual stimulation does work, who the hell wants to spends 30 minutes to an hour a day brushing their head? Do most people on here honestly have that much time a day to spend on brushing their scalps? It just isn't practical.

Bottom line, a topical makes a lot more sense if it does the same thing - you spend 5-10 minutes at the most per day applying a topical and you're done with it. I would much rather do that. I also agree with you that I will not go as far as propecia/dutasteride and fucking my hormones up like that, but I still want something that is actually proven to work.

More on this can be elaborated from other threads but maybe something relevant for your perspective, is understanding the necessity of total body health, which is very critical for total hair health. The hormones are out of wack due to the body sustaining a low oxygen environment for too long, and aggressive electron shortages. Also factors such as running on very suboptimal enzyme levels due to our dead over processed cooked food diets, and mineral deficiencies which limit which type and amounts of enzymes are in use. Many of which are important to proper continued hair growth as we progress in age. With other implications throughout the body, Mpb is more of a deformity in my opinion than a genetic flaw. The flaw was never in the genes but in the inadequacy to deal with a wide range of particular conditions it was never intended to. Some people sneak by this problem for longer due to their particular ratios/amount of hormones, and physical head/scalp characteristics which dictate susceptibility.

NYJets wrote:hey dude bro,

Sorry to read that you were not able to maintain your hair. This cat and mouse game to end hairloss seems never ending. Thanks for the feedback and I hope you can recover with minox.

thanks man, i hope so

unfortunate wrote:
Bottom line, a topical makes a lot more sense if it does the same thing - you spend 5-10 minutes at the most per day applying a topical and you're done with it. I would much rather do that. I also agree with you that I will not go as far as propecia/dutasteride and fucking my hormones up like that, but I still want something that is actually proven to work.

Yeah man, its a struggle. Its not about being proven in the lab or anything, i know it works for me specifically so I do it. Like i said I really hope hair multiplication takes off... that would be crazy to replicate hair follicles since the only real downside to hair transplants is that theres not enough donor hair. But that's a discussion for a whole new forum haha


987: i really dont think that some people can "sneak" by these standards, if they really govern hair loss. I really think if someone's body can do something, another persons body is theoretically capable of the same exact thing. I don't want to sound crazy but maybe something about hairloss has to do with our upbringing and neuroplasticity: what if as a kid we thought going bald is okay? what if we intentionally went bald because our brains think we did something wrong and we deserve to be bald? what if... I'm not endorsing these crazy thoughts of mine or anything, but literally I think mind over matter or in this case mind over optimal enzymes/hormones is the truth. ill be on a long quest to figure out the key to unlocking the mind to do the job for me no matter how crazy it seems. yeah, i will be hypocritically dabbling in rogaine but I know its limits, if I ever surpass the rogaine's potential ill be happy to stick it to any man balding.

dudebro wrote:

NYJets wrote:hey dude bro,

Sorry to read that you were not able to maintain your hair. This cat and mouse game to end hairloss seems never ending. Thanks for the feedback and I hope you can recover with minox.

thanks man, i hope so

unfortunate wrote:
Bottom line, a topical makes a lot more sense if it does the same thing - you spend 5-10 minutes at the most per day applying a topical and you're done with it. I would much rather do that. I also agree with you that I will not go as far as propecia/dutasteride and fucking my hormones up like that, but I still want something that is actually proven to work.

Yeah man, its a struggle. Its not about being proven in the lab or anything, i know it works for me specifically so I do it. Like i said I really hope hair multiplication takes off... that would be crazy to replicate hair follicles since the only real downside to hair transplants is that theres not enough donor hair. But that's a discussion for a whole new forum haha


987: i really dont think that some people can "sneak" by these standards, if they really govern hair loss. I really think if someone's body can do something, another persons body is theoretically capable of the same exact thing. I don't want to sound crazy but maybe something about hairloss has to do with our upbringing and neuroplasticity: what if as a kid we thought going bald is okay? what if we intentionally went bald because our brains think we did something wrong and we deserve to be bald? what if... I'm not endorsing these crazy thoughts of mine or anything, but literally I think mind over matter or in this case mind over optimal enzymes/hormones is the truth. ill be on a long quest to figure out the key to unlocking the mind to do the job for me no matter how crazy it seems. yeah, i will be hypocritically dabbling in rogaine but I know its limits, if I ever surpass the rogaine's potential ill be happy to stick it to any man balding.

I think you're absolutely on point with hair multiplication. Once that becomes the standard treatment, it will just become one of those things.. Re-transplants when necessary with unlimited supply of donor hair. Just like people maintain other parts of their body, hair will be one.

I am not sure about the thought process behind baldness etc, but what I do know is this - there is pattern to male pattern baldness which is just about the same rough pattern in every man who suffers this type of loss. This pattern cannot be ignored in trying to figure out a solution. There is definitely a physical reason - I just don't think we completely know why yet.

Thanx for ur honesty. I had my doubts about this brushing thing from the beginning, mainly because that ferox guy has perfect hair. ok so he complained about hairloss, but imo just about everyone wants more hair, no matter how much they have.

and its become obvious to me when u have the gene/genes or watever feature to blame that is inherited perhaps epigenetics to an extent, then everything seems to accelerate mpb, and when u dont have it, everything seems to regrow more hair.

Also lets be honest, normal brushing hasnt worked in the past for people, otherwise there would be no mpb, because most people brush alot when they have hair, then start to lose it, and stop brishing because brushing (at least when ur young and naieve, seems to rip out hair)

so the question really is can intense brushing stimulate enough blood flow to reverse mintiurization, or does it just make us lose more hair. the answer seems to be when we have mpb, it just makes the weak hairs fall out, and they continue to miniturize. i.e. they regrow smaller each cycle.

In short i believe brushing makes u grow more hair, when u dont have mpb, and makes the hair fall out faster when u do have mpb. which is another way of saying it makes no difference. and even if it did, surely theres an easier way to increase blood flow other than vigourously brushing for 20 minutes a day, however when susceptible, surely more blood flow = more DHT.

rofl wrote:then everything seems to accelerate mpb, and when u dont have it, everything seems to regrow more hair.

Could you please expand upon what you mean by "everything" seems to accelerate it?

Thanks for posting this and not just quitting altogether. We always hear the positive stories, but I wonder how many just give up and never speak up.

Maybe you could try microneedling with your minoxidil to increase absorption.

The most effective approach is to attack from all sides; diet, toxicity, methylation, posture, bloodflow, wound healing, infections... The list is endless, and who do we believe? We can't all have decades of biochemical research experience to make the right calls. It can end up taking over our lives with nothing to show for it. I can't blame anyone for finding it all to be too much.

However, blaming a psychogenic cause for our problems can also be a terrible burden. The mind and body are an endless loop, and we cannot be entirely in control of either.

'Could u expand'

well, im kinda being a smartass cos i know it really means nothing is working or affecting it at all, but i mean, drugs, alcohol, smoking , sex, topicals, prescription drugs, brushing, massaging, etc.

it all seems to work well for people with f... all recession, and seems to accelerate mpb for people with mpb. So in other words nothing does anything.

everytime i see new growth, i realise its just new miniturized growth. i.e. its fallen out, regrown but smaller. And i suspect a large proportion of those reporting regrowth, are actually just seeing the same thing. especially when they make these claims, then dissapear, its as though they realise their mistaken , but dont take back wat they said, they just fade away into the shadows leaving behind a trail of claims on the internet.

Heres some thoughts for you guys to play with..

*If blood flow is king in concerns to hair loss, then why cant you grow terminal hair on your arms, legs etc where blood flow obviously isnt an issue. Consider that there is more than just increased blood flow and physical stimulation that is necessary.

* Leading to, hair covers your entire body, but what are differences of areas that do grow hair terminally versus areas that do not.

* What all does terminal hair need to grow optimally.

* Whatever method of response you are using for your hair lose, how is it helping, and for how long out of your day is it being helpful.
For 5 minutes, and hour? two hours? half the day? all day? Things tend to fall into ratios and if what your doing that is being helpful is being done less often than needed, then how are you making progress. Is the proportion of improvement outweighing non improvement or decline, or are you just maintaining sometimes and decline other times? That doesnt sound like progress..
(Manuals methods alone are not enough btw.)

*What has possibly changed about your body and/or head since you began loosing your hair. A physical observation which may be noticeable for you...

* What are things you notice from observing a balding guys head versus the head of a persons (child/teen/man/woman) whom not balding at all. Are there visual differences other than lack of hair..

* What are all of the necessities for terminal hair to grow. Then after identifying that, why isnt the hair getting all of or enough of those factors.

* Why is dht supposedly harming your hair follicles on your scalp and not the hair follicles on the sides of your head and/or the rest of your body in which dht is actually pro hair...

* What dictates the outcome of ones hormonal output and ratio, and what physiological changes do various hormonal outputs cause.

* What actions have you correlated with times you have the worst shed.
( For example I know exactly the reasons why my hair used to shed/thin. )
Have you made connections or is it just something happening to you without any correlations still?

The right questions lead to the right answers. Expand your creativity in which you think about this problem.
I could give my own answers that I believe fit to all of those questions,( which I have before on this forum without much attention to those posts, but various other threads in this forum answer these questions as well, one must then tie it all together) I invite ppl to try to answer all of these questions and/or add to them . Perhaps this will spark useful thoughts for your situation, and you may also eventually find whatever right answers are found will tie back in together with other aspects of this problem holistically for full understanding of necessities of response to your particular situation..

dudebro and unfortunate, what were your exact regimens during the last year?

Yeah I'm choosing not to be overwhelmed by this crap anymore you know? I have a life to live, but consider this... I lived off the same diet from 1998-2004 when I had no signs of balding, to when I started to bald in 2005... whats the difference? I hit puberty at 12-14... It makes sense that it is hormone related or skull growth related but the diet should have affected me within the 6 years when I was 7-12...

Everyone has their own views, but diet just doesnt fall into one of my hypothesized reasons for hair loss. Consider my brother, we basially share a lot of the same genetic make up... he never balded when he turned 12/13, even though he had the same diet as me. The only thing that would even remotely make sense concerning diet is that some foods directly cause low blood flow to the scalp.. which doesnt seem to be the case I think.

I have plenty of hair on my body, just not the top of my scalp. I've mentioned this before, when I broke one of my fingers, the hand with the broken finger had much thicker finger hair than the opposite finger. I still think blood flow is the issue, aka why I even use rogaine: its altering the blood flow somehow, either through dilating my blood vessels to allow for more blood flow or something. I just wish there was a safe way to "break" my scalp and cause the body to immediately rush a bunch of blood there to fix it, and as a side effect grow more hair. I guess that is where wound healing comes to play.

I'm still brushing before rogaine.. I just said I'm considering to stop.

My regimen: curcumin/resveratrol/taurine every other day, coq10 and ecklonia cava every other day, and ginkgo and multivitamins everyday.

I brush my hair for 5 min, do a handstand for 2 minutes, then apply rogaine for another 5 or so. I wash my hair 3-4 times a week and rinse with Apple cider vinegar.
I also started rubbing my nails together for 5min twice a day. I am THINKING about using this laser comb sitting around the house that i've never touched.

I am going to see an acupuncturist soon as well, it couldn't hurt.

Just remember that in october I was BALD, like literally. I have now regained about 50% of my original hair density that I had in June 2012 in 10 months.. hopefully a full recovery (not a full head of hair lol) in another 3-6 months.

There are things you are not understanding here, but I understand that you do not want to be overwhelmed by this issue, which causes you to turn cheek from diving deeper... To me it appears that you are investing a lot of energy into this either way, whether through time or money, so might as well do it right... Within this post you can see what some of my type of questions have helped developed in my current understanding, but I recommend more time be spent on questioning everything, even current answers, until you reach the ground level causation of any question which I dont see typically focused on.. Ive found that many answers are also found by being flexible, and not taking a position with any one theory or idea, which goes back to seeing things holistically.. Also consider that directly comparing or contrasting with your brother is pointless. My brother has no hair loss and is far less healthy than I am, which is irrelevant to me specifically.. The time frames you laid out are irrelevant also as this problem can explode all at once or take decades, too many variables to laminate yourself with someone else.. Skull bone growth is very relevant here, and alters the terrain and susceptibility of hair growth significantly due to tightening, and developing space issues within the hair environment if other factors arent growing with it such as blood vessels, skin elasticity and adipose tissue levels... Focusing on increasing blood flow through various ways is good in a sense of total body health, but without doing it through all mechanisms simultaneously, you likely wont be as successful in the needed outcome of decreasing 5ar and increasing localized aromatase activity via a consistent increased o2 delivery which is needed to turn your hair condition the other direction. Your current methods of increasing blood flow may become more and more moot over time if the scalp environment is still becoming increasingly choked due to specific causes not being dealt with directly, mineral deficiencies, toxins, low oxygen lifestyle etc... To be short, consider the idea that one of the major deficiencies in terminal hair loss is simply scalp fat tissue levels, which becomes more obvious to me the more I look at it..(concerning differences of hair disposition/amounts throughout body, and I hypothesize this is a reason animals are covered in terminal hair.) I believe that Androgen's are pro hair, except for where it comes down to constriction and bone growth, and this is where the need for the correct ratio of estrogen present in the scalp comes in (importance of ratios, in hormones/minerals etc). Bald scalps are a far cry from estrogen expression.. If that idea resonates with you, then next you'd want to understand the why and how. Otherwise attacking "symptoms" with rogaine may only be buying time, though I am glad to hear you have success with it, which means your hair is still salvageable. But keep in mind the foundational causes may still be progressing towards an end game where your rogaine efforts can reach a point of diminishing returns and/or complete ineffectiveness. I personally would feel like rogaine is a waste of time and money. All of the information needed in naturally catering to this problem is already scattered throughout this forum...Assuming you are not past point of no return, meaning your scalp is already expanded,calcified/hardened,compressed,and fibrotic... If the effort that comes after the understanding is too large of a task for you then just call it what it is, but for motivation sake, this isnt just about hair here its about sustaining healthy life in these toxic times, and optimizing your being...

I really see where youre coming from, I do, but at the end of the day I dont think anyone on this forum has had real success and has been able to turn around the hair loss process, which is theoretically possible. Maybe except for that one guy taking every hair concoction and drug known to man.

If slowmoe's credibility can be established, sure he has some good results too. Ferox really wasnt losing much hair to begin with.

What about you? Have you actually seen success by utilizing your internal approach with actual pictures? If its working for you, I am glad. But you're not mentioning if that approach is giving you terminal hair on your head rather than just making you holistically healthy, you know?

demand for results evidence

/abandonthread