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ApoE4 correlation with MPB -- is there any increased odds of having MPB if you carry it?

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ApoE4 correlation with MPB -- is there any increased odds of having MPB if you carry it? Empty ApoE4 correlation with MPB -- is there any increased odds of having MPB if you carry it?

Post  LittleFighter Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:34 pm

I'm ApoE4 (ApoE4 E4/E3). And have the genes for increased chance of balding before 40.

Still searching for my perfect diet, paleo is close. ApoE4 seem to need much more (Dr. BG) like removing metals, more toxin avoidance, more antixodidants, etc.

Is anyone here ApoE4 (if you know!)?
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Post  rofl Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:50 pm

i dont know, but ive just studied the apoE genes at university 3 yr genetics and apoE4 has increased risk of alzheimers and cholesterol, where do u get increased risk of mpb from?

has it been proven or is it just anecdotal?
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Post  LittleFighter Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:07 pm

Anxious1 wrote:i dont know, but ive just studied the apoE genes at university 3 yr genetics and apoE4 has increased risk of alzheimers and cholesterol, where do u get increased risk of mpb from?

has it been proven or is it just anecdotal?

Anxious1, actually just my guess. I reasoned that a few diseases associated with ApoE4 are also linked with MPB... so probably there is some degree of correlation. Actually I wanted to hear if anyone else had some thoughts on this. Previously, a lot of discussion about Lp(a) happened in this forum (very very interesting).

For instance: There is at least one factor that androgenic baldness and Alzheimer’s disease have in common: atherosclerosis.



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Post  a<r Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:23 pm

From an evolutionary standpoint, a bonus in your defense aresenal ... from the standpoint of a damaged immune system and bacterial integrity, not so great. I think that it would definitely contribute to balding, and those with the gene would as pointed out experience inflammation from similar triggers (infection) more than those without it, but it's only due to you having "bigger guns". Keep this study in mind.

Altered immune responses in apolipoprotein E-deficient mice

D. T. Laskowitz1,*,
D. M. Lee*,
D. Schmechel* and
H. F. Staats*†

+ Author Affiliations

*Department of Medicine (Neurology), Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC 27710
†Department of Immunology, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC 27710

1 To whom correspondence should be addressed.


Next Section
Abstract

Apolipoprotein E (apoE) is a 34 kDa glycosylated protein with multiple biological properties. In addition to its role in cholesterol transport, apoE has in vitro immunomodulatory properties. Recent data suggest that these immunomodulatory effects of apoE may be biologically relevant, and apoE-deficient mice have altered immune responses after bacterial inoculation and increased susceptibility to endotoxemia induced by lipopolysaccharide (LPS). To better understand the mechanism by which apoE-modulates immune responses, we tested the role of human apoE isoforms in assays of human T cell proliferation, and analyzed the immune responses of apoE-deficient mice. Both the E3 and E4 isoforms of apoE induced similar suppression of human lymphocyte function in assays of T cell proliferation, including mitogenic responses to phytohaemagglutin (PHA), stimulation of the T cell receptor with αCD3, and antigen-specific response to tetanus toxoid. ApoE-deficient mice showed no quantitative differences in thymic, splenic, or bone marrow lymphocyte populations, nor were there in vitro abnormalities in splenocyte proliferation after stimulation with αCD3 to suggest an inherent T cell defect in apoE-deficient mice. ApoE deficient animals, however, had significantly higher levels of antigen-specific IgM after immunization with tetanus toxoid, and impaired delayed type hypersensitivity responses as compared to control C57-BL/6 mice. These results support a growing body of evidence demonstrating an interplay between lipid metabolism and immune responses, and suggest that apoE plays a biologically relevant role in regulating humoral and cell-mediated immunity.

The reasons for the differences in outcome of infection are largely unknown, but genetic factors presumably play a major role. We have found that polymorphisms in the gene encoding the protein apolipoprotein E (APOE) determine the consequences of infection with several diverse pathogens. This gene has three major alleles, APOE-alt epsilon2, alt epsilon3 and alt epsilon4, which correspond to three main protein isoforms, apoE2, 3, and 4. The protein is a multipurpose molecule with roles in lipid transport, tissue repair and the immune system.1 We have identified a new function for apoE – control of pathogens. First, the APOE-alt epsilon4 and the APOE-alt epsilon2 alleles are, respectively, risk factors for herpes labialis and herpes simplex encephalitis, diseases caused by herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV1).2, 3, 4 Second, the APOE-alt epsilon4 allele is strongly protective against hepatitis C virus-induced liver damage,5 and the APOE-alt epsilon2alt epsilon2 genotype is associated with earlier infection with the malaria parasite.6 Also, we have discovered that a derivative of apoE has anti-infective properties.7 These findings all stem from our initial discovery that APOE-alt epsilon4 and HSV1 (in brain) together confer a strong risk of Alzheimer's disease.2, 3

The common factor linking apoE and these pathogens is their usage of the same molecules to attach to and/or to enter cells, namely, heparan sulphate proteoglycans (HSPG) and members of the low-density lipoprotein receptor (LDLR) family, respectively. ApoE might control infection by competing with the pathogen for binding to these molecules.2 If the extent of binding is isoform-specific, APOE will determine extent of competition, and hence of entry of the pathogen into cells and its subsequent spread, damage and disease. Dependence of binding affinities of the apoE isoforms on cell type could result in a specific allele protecting in one disease but conferring a risk in another.

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Post  a<r Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:35 pm

A little off topic but a thought springs to mind while going through articles ... I've seen dozens of lengthy studies done such as the following example that show bacteria to be involved in disease such as Alzheimers, Heart Disease, etc, and then more to cut down poor attempts to refute them.

Infiltration of the brain by pathogens causes Alzheimer’s disease
R.F. Itzhaki a,∗, M.A. Wozniak a, D.M. Appelt b, B.J. Balin c
a Molecular Neurobiology Laboratory, Department of Optometry and Neuroscience, University of Manchester
Institute of Science and Technology (UMIST), Manchester M60 1QD, UK
b Department of Biomedical Sciences, Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine, 4170 City Avenue, Philadelphia, PA 19131, USA
c Department of Pathology/Microbiology and Immunology, Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine,
4170 City Avenue, Philadelphia, PA 19131, USA
Received 10 October 2003; received in revised form 5 December 2003; accepted 8 December 2003
Abstract
Despite very numerous studies on Alzheimer’s disease (AD), especially on amyloid plaques and neurofibrillary tangles, little information
has been obtained thus on the causes of the disease. Evidence is described here that implicates firstly herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV1)
as a strong risk factor when it is present in brain of carriers of the type 4 allele of the gene for apolipoprotein E (APOE-ε4). Indirect support
comes from studies indicating the role of APOE in several diverse diseases of known pathogen cause.
A second putative risk factor is the bacterium, Chlamydia pneumoniae. This pathogen has been identified and localized in AD brain.
Current studies aimed at “proof of principle” address the entry of the organism into the CNS, the neuroinflammatory response to the
organism, and the role that the organism plays in triggering AD pathology. An infection-based animal model demonstrates that following
intranasal inoculation of BALB/c mice with C. pneumoniae, amyloid plaques/deposits consistent with those observed in the AD brain
develop, thus implicating this infection in the etiology of AD.

Then more studies that say that a certain gene causes the same illness such as those above. Its funny to see that mainstream medical science can purport two seperate causes for such obvious pathologies and yet continue trying to study them seperately.

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Post  ubraj Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:41 am

aIts funny to see that mainstream medical science can purport two seperate causes for such obvious pathologies and yet continue trying to study them seperately.

Yeah, some get it but not many. Like this one for example.

"The outcome of infection is as much determined by the genetic predisposition of the patient as by the virulence and biology of the infecting agent. Environmental factors and nutrition are critical determinants of disease expression as well."

more info = http://www.miklossy.ch/473.html

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Post  CausticSymmetry Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:10 am

LittleFighter wrote:I'm ApoE4 (ApoE4 E4/E3). And have the genes for increased chance of balding before 40.

Still searching for my perfect diet, paleo is close. ApoE4 seem to need much more (Dr. BG) like removing metals, more toxin avoidance, more antixodidants, etc.

Is anyone here ApoE4 (if you know!)?

I touched a little on this before and have something new to add to it

Here's the original post:


Personally, I'm largely unenthusiastic about genetic theories, because they only reinforce the notion that the balding population is "doomed" to inevitable hair loss.

Let's take DHT, it is biphasic, depending on circumstances, meaning that it is either pro-inflammatory in tissue or it is anti-inflammatory. More specifically, there maybe an increase in macrophages (immune response) to deal with infection or wound healing, or not.

From a genetic perspective, if one is a carrier of the Apolipoprotein E Type 4 Allele (APOE4), they are "genetically" more susceptible to disease conditions that involve dysregulation of glucose metabolism, such as insulin resistance, diabetes, Alzheimer's, atherosclerosis, etc--and I would assume hair loss as well (because, these same conditions are all caused by the same thing--a hormone/thyroid dysfunction)

One example of this is in a study where activity of DHT was significantly reduced in APOE4 targeted replacement
mice compared to APOE3 mice.

It's also important to note that the Apolipoprotein E Type 4 Allele carriers have a significant increase in Lp(a) or Lipoprotein(a) levels.

Thyroid dysfunction and Lp(a) go hand in hand, so does diabetes, heart disease, Alzheimer's etc.

And not surprisingly Apolipoprotein E04 is a "genetic" risk factor for an iodine deficiency disorder.

So rather than DHT being a problem, it is a consequence of a much larger, more significant problem.

Also, it is interesting to note that since DKK-1 is regulated by methylation, a lack of methylation occurs in thyroid dysfunction as well. For example, homocysteine levels tend to go much higher in low thyroid function, which will help raise DKK-1 (it's why natural B-vitamins are important).

It is unfortunate that thyroid problems are critically misdiagnosed due to an improper 'gold standard' for thyroid testing.

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t5601-is-the-dht-theory-dead

I'll add that the protein apolipoprotein E or ApoE removes the beta amyloid plaque found in Alzheimer's disease . A slightly different form of this this (ApoE-4) will interfere with normal, health functions of ApoE. Having said that, those with ApoE-4 are probably lacking something, whether it's vitamin A (animal form only), or iodine.

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Post  LittleFighter Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:41 am

Thanks CS, a/r and rdkml.

I agree with CS in that genetic theories of disease are flawed and often serve to help the medical establishment; though knowing what genes you carry can help alot towards understanding what should be your diet and what you should place emphasis on.

The Paleo "experts" and people in the community are divided in the debate of higher fat vs lower fat (specially sat' fat and cholesterol) for people with this genotype. I'm more inclined towards higher sat' fat and cholesterol, despite the very few supporters and lack of people actually explaining exactly why.

Now that you mention Vitamin A, something interesting is that I have the genotypes that make me convert much less carotenes (up to around 69%) into real Vitamin A. And Vitamin A is vital for Vitamin D to do its work, for gut function, immunity, etc. That means I need more animal foods and/or supplementation (10,000 UI with 4,000 D3 daily, K2 5mg, the rest from foods, though I still need to start eating liver). Probably I'm falling short with that amount of Vitamin A.

I carry only one copy of the ApoE4 variant, but that still puts me at higher "risk". I'm not afraid though, I know this can be prevented as well as many other "genetic" problems.

I have the most similarity with southern and then northern europeans, after that others populations. The research is established for european populations, so I think the effect of having this genotype applies to me.
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Post  a<r Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:01 pm

More on the evolution of these genes and how they were derived out of necessity through the years.

Host responses to infections
involve changes in lipid levels and lipid metabolism in the
plasma. These plasma lipid changes might be mediated by
three cytokines interleukin (IL)-1, IL-6, and tumor necrosis
factor (TNF)-α, which induce elevated levels of triglycerides
and VLDL [22], decreased levels of cholesterol, HDL and
LDL [23, 24] or increased levels of cholesterol in the
serum [25], depending on the nature of the infectious
agents.
Lipoproteins and lipids present in the serum may contribute
to the host innate immunity against pathogens [26].
Studies using apoE deficient mice confirmed the role of
apoE in host susceptibility to endotoxemia and Klebsiella pneumoniae infection [27], while transgenic (Tg) mice
expressing human APOEε3 and APOEε4 genes revealed
an isoform-specific effect of apoE on the proinflammatory
response to lipopolysaccharide (LPS) [28]. Infection of
apoE knockout (KO) mice with Listeria monocytogenes or
Klebsiella pneumoniae leads to an increased susceptibility
to death as well as increased serum levels of TNF-α as
compared with wild-type (WT) mice
[29, 30]. Binding of
bacterial endotoxin to either HDL, LDL, or VLDL results
in a redirection of endotoxin uptake from Kupffer cells to
parenchymal hepatocytes where the endotoxin is deactivated

[30]. ApoE facilitated sepsis-induced mortality in a dosedependentmanner
and increased natural killer T-(NKT)-cell
proliferation in the spleen [31]. ApoE deficient mice were
markedly more susceptible to tuberculosis, evidenced by
100% mortality within 4 weeks of infection with tuberculosis

[32].

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Post  a<r Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:10 pm

LF, remember that LPS stuff? think that has anything to do with disease trends?

The Apolipoprotein E (ApoE) 4 Isoform is Associated with an Increased Inflammatory Response in Humans after in vivo Endotoxin Challenge
Stephen Gale, Susette Coyle, Steven Calvano, Siobhan Corbett, and Stephen F. Lowry. Robert Wood Johnson Medical School/University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey

Background: After injury or infection, most patients experience self-limited inflammation; yet others develop hyperinflammation (SIRS/sepsis), worsening morbidity and mortality. Efforts increasingly focus on identifying genetic polymorphisms that may help predict these discrepant outcomes. ApoE, a multifunctional protein with metabolic and immunomodulatory activity, exists as 3 isoforms (ApoE2, E3, or E4) in humans based on allelic inheritance. ApoE3 is most common and has anti-inflammatory properties. The less common ApoE4 is associated with certain inflammatory conditions including Alzheimer disease and cardiovascular disease. Also, animal and human observational studies suggest that ApoE4 is associated with hyperinflammation.

Hypothesis: Healthy human volunteers possessing the ApoE4 allele will demonstrate a greater inflammatory response after in vivo endotoxin challenge than subjects with other isoforms.


Methods: Thirty-six otherwise healthy volunteers were given intravenous endotoxin (2ng/kg) to induce moderate systemic inflammation. Vital signs and blood samples were obtained at various times post-challenge. Plasma TNFα concentrations were assessed by sandwich ELISA. DNA was extracted from the leukocytes at baseline and ApoE isoforms were determined by direct sequencing. Results were analyzed using unpaired t-test.

Results: Of 36 volunteer samples examined, 8 expressed the ApoE4 allele (ApoE4+). Compared to ApoE4- subjects, those ApoE4+ experienced a greater rise in TNFα (p<0.01) and in body temperature (p<0.02) after endotoxin challenge. From the same cohort, 19 subjects were homozygous for the ApoE3 allele (ApoE3/ApoE3); 17 had other allele combinations. The ApoE3 homozygotes had lower TNFα levels (p<0.02) and a lower temperature curve (p<0.02) after endotoxin challenge than all other (AO) subjects either homozygous or heterozygous for ApoE2 or ApoE4.

Conclusions: The ApoE4 allele is associated with a greater inflammatory response after in vivo endotoxin challenge. Subjects homozygous for ApoE3 experienced a less robust inflammatory response after endotoxin challenge when compared to those who are homozygous or heterozygous for ApoE2 or ApoE4. ApoE polymorphism may contribute to differing responses to injury or infection. Genetic testing for ApoE isoforms may help predict which patients will develop hyperinflammation and progress to SIRS or sepsis after injury or infection.

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Post  a<r Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:14 pm

Abstract

Apolipoprotein-E protein is an endogenous immunomodulatory agent that affects both the innate and the adaptive immune responses. Since individuals with the APOE4 gene demonstrate worsened pathology and poorer outcomes in many neurological disorders, we examined isoform-specific differences in the response of microglia, the primary cellular component of the brain's innate immune response, in detail. Our data demonstrate that microglia derived from APOE4/4 targeted replacement mice demonstrate a pro-inflammatory phenotype that includes altered cell morphology, increased NO production associated with increased NOS2 mRNA levels, and higher pro-inflammatory cytokine production (TNFα, IL-6, IL12p40) compared to microglia derived from APOE3/3 targeted replacement mice. The effect is gene dose-dependent and increases with the number of APOE4 gene alleles. The APOE genotype-specific immune profile observed in the microglial immune response is also observed in the cortex of aged APOE3/3 and APOE4/4 mice treated with lipopolysacchride (LPS) and in peripheral (peritoneal) macrophages. To determine if APOE4's action resulted from an isoform-specific difference in effective levels of the apolipoproteins, we generated mice expressing only a single allele of APOE3. Immune-stimulated macrophages from APOE3/0 mice demonstrated an increased inflammatory response compared to APOE3/3 mice, but less than in APOE4/4 mice. These data suggest that inhibition of inflammation depends upon the dose of apoE3 protein available and that apoE4 protein may alter inflammation partly by dose effects and partly by being qualitatively different than apoE3. Overall, these data emphasize the important role of apolipoprotein E and of the APOE genotype on the immune responses that are evident in most, if not all, neurological disease.

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Post  CausticSymmetry Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:30 pm

There was an interesting study recently, in which an analog form of vitamin A was found unexpectedly to reduce beta amyloid plaque by 50% within days in rats.

The rats mental abilities improved as a result. Will real vitamin A work on a similar level?
It might be possible.


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