CS: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome - weakness and joint pain after ejaculating. Cause?

Hi,

I've suffered from what has now been termed by the medical community (finally they acknowledge it) as Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome for several years. The Chinese refer to it as "weak kidneys", be that Yin or Yang.

My symptoms are immediate back/kidney pain after ejaculation, pain in my knees, other joints, muscle pain, sore throat and sometimes almost a low-grade fever and feeling like I'm about to have the flu. Also usually scattered thoughts and "clear-headedness". My body also suddenly feels "cold" and empty, like the heat has left it. This usually lasts for a few days, in varying degrees.

I was very interested in your take on this CS, have you ever come across that in your clinic, what might be the cause of this and what might in your view be the solution to this? I've tried a lot of things, some have helped a little but no real solution yet...

As it stands now I try to limit ejaculations to once a week, although it's not always easy to hold back when with my girlfriend.

I've wondered about things like this, I read a site called yourbrainonporn.com which talks about abstience for a period to let the body recover from excess masturbation and porn. I'm giving it a go and will update if I notice anything, I'm 11 days dry today and not noticed anything major to report back, I swear my beards growing faster but I might be imagining it, wasn't expecting it.

Easy one, this...

Weak kidney yang = hair loss & adrenal burnout

Go see good TCM...

Hi,

Yes, I know this is easily explained in TCM, but I was wondering what might be CS view on this from a more "Western" viewpoint.

I went to a very good herbalist when I was in Beijing, but when I got home I got dizzy, and have stayed dizzy for a few months! I don't think it is this, but I discovered they put Aconitum in the herbal mixture!

I know they are supposed to "prepare" it so there's no toxicity left, but I'm not sure if this has been done... Scared it might be the cause of my dizziness!

But yes, I'm still grateful for the diagnosis, I was diagnosed with Liver heat and Kidney Yang deficiency, so I'm looking at formulas for this. Think what I found with Ageless Herbs might be good.

Bump!

This "new" syndrome per se, in my own observation (based on a many discussions with people) is that those who seem to suffer from this problem often have a varicocele.

Another factor is an imbalance in neurotransmitters. This creates a sense of urging. The result of all this is excessive stimulation of the adrenal glands and that will create a toll.

Having said that, the following might be interesting:

J Sex Med. 2009 Oct;6(10):2878-87. Epub 2009 Aug 11.
The association between varicocele, premature ejaculation and prostatitis symptoms: possible mechanisms.
Lotti F, Corona G, Mancini M, Biagini C, Colpi GM, Innocenti SD, Filimberti E, Gacci M, Krausz C, Sforza A, Forti G, Mannucci E, Maggi M.

Andrology Unit, Department of Clinical Physiopathology, University of Florence, Florence 50139, Italy.

INTRODUCTION:
No study has ever systematically evaluated the impact of varicocele on sexual function.

AIM:
Two cross-sectional studies were performed in patients attending an andrology unit either for male sexual dysfunction (study 1) or couple infertility (study 2). In study 1, we evaluated the impact of varicocele on sexual function. In study 2, we retrospectively evaluated a possible association between varicocele and prostatitis signs and symptoms.

METHODS:
Study 1 refers to a consecutive series of 2,448 (mean age 52.0 +/- 12.9 years) subjects. Study 2 consists of a consecutive series of 139 male subjects (mean age 37.3 +/- 6.3).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
In study 1, varicocele was clinically classified into three grades according to Dubin criteria. Different hormonal parameters were also evaluated. All the patients of study 2 underwent simultaneous scrotal and transrectal color-Doppler ultrasonography (CDU) along with seminal characteristics and interleukin-8, a surrogate marker of prostatitis.

RESULTS:
After adjusting for age, subjects with severe varicocele (N = 284, 11.6%; Dubin grade 2 and 3) showed a reduction of testicular volume (P < 0.01), higher luteinizing hormone (LH) (P < 0.05), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) (P < 0.0001) and prolactin (P < 0.05) levels, and also an enlarged or tender prostate at digito-rectal examination (P < 0.05). Premature ejaculation was the only sexual symptoms significantly associated with varicocele (29.2% vs. 24.9% in subjects with or without varicocele, respectively; P < 0.05). In study 2, subjects with severe echographic-defined varicocele (basal venous reflux increasing or not after Valsalva's maneuver; N = 28, 20.1%) showed CDU features of prostatitis and higher seminal inteleukin-8 levels. The presence of any degree of varicocele (N = 40, 28.8%) was also associated with prostatitis symptoms, as measured by the National Institutes of Health Chronic Prostatitis Symptom Index scoring (P < 0.05), and in particular with the pain domain (P < 0.05).

CONCLUSIONS:
In conclusion, signs and symptoms of prostatitis are more common in varicocele patients, who more often complain of premature ejaculation.

And, what the latest analysis says about this disorder:

J Sex Med. 2010 May;7(5):1976-81. Epub 2010 Feb 25.
Postorgasm illness syndrome--a spectrum of illnesses.
Ashby J, Goldmeier D.
Source
Genitourinary Medicine/Human Immune deficiency Virus, Imperial College, St. Mary's Hospital, London, UK. jane.ashby@imperial.nhs.uk

INTRODUCTION:
We describe two men with marked symptoms following orgasm. In each case, the symptoms were consistent with those found in postorgasm illness syndrome (POIS).

AIM:
Further elucidation of the cause of the patients' symptoms.

METHODS:
Both cases were investigated for causes of POIS with biochemical, hormonal, neurological, autonomic, cardiological, and psychological workup.

RESULTS:
Extensive investigation did not reveal a major organic cause for these patients' symptoms. Detailed history revealed likely differing etiologies in each case. In one case, the symptom picture suggested cytokine release, and, in fact, the patient subjectively improved by 80% on taking nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs just prior to and for a day or two after orgasm. The other case appeared to have an ethnic/cultural etiology that was associated with the "Dhat" syndrome.

CONCLUSION:
The apparent differing etiologies/clinical associations of these cases highlight the need for careful history, examination, and investigations in patients presenting with POIS. We recommend that each case needs individual consideration and investigation, and treatment needs to be tailored to the likely cause. It seems likely that POIS represents a spectrum of syndromes of differing etiologies. Further research into the neurobiochemical sequelae of orgasm will be useful in understanding the pathological processes in these cases.

tooyoung wrote:I've wondered about things like this, I read a site called yourbrainonporn.com which talks about abstience for a period to let the body recover from excess masturbation and porn. I'm giving it a go and will update if I notice anything, I'm 11 days dry today and not noticed anything major to report back, I swear my beards growing faster but I might be imagining it, wasn't expecting it.

My overall sense of well-being has increased since I stopped watching porn. I think the main problem is that porn, being a "super-stimulus" as it's described in the video, makes it much easier to get horny even when you're just bored. My theory is that our sexual minds are over-stimulated due to the ubiquitous presence of the media in the modern world. Also over-crowding...we probably interact with more people on a daily basis than our ancestors did.

I saw a TV commercial for a laundry detergent, and it featured a slow-motion clip showing some mustard or ketchup getting squirted onto a teenage girl's shirt. I thought to myself that no male over the age of 14 is thinking about mustard or ketchup when he sees that. Johnson&johnson is not just selling laundry detergent...they're also selling that 29-yr old milf who's bending over the trashcan providing a nice camera shot down her blouse. Sex sells.

Similarly if you go to the yahoo home page...the trick to getting you to click on the week's featured article on yoga is including a picture of a topless woman with her back to the camera.

Also...I find that there's a sense of self-empowerment when your mind has control over the body. It's similar to the feeling you have when you're able to resist a food craving.

CausticSymmetry wrote:This "new" syndrome per se, in my own observation (based on a many discussions with people) is that those who seem to suffer from this problem often have a varicocele.

Another factor is an imbalance in neurotransmitters. This creates a sense of urging. The result of all this is excessive stimulation of the adrenal glands and that will create a toll.

Hmm, interesting. Would they detect a varicocele on an ultrasound of the testicles? I had one of my pelvic floor and prostate a few years back, and also my testicles I think, as I had some pelvic pain at the moment.

How could one correct the imbalance in neutransmitters? And how could one test this?

I second imprisoned radical's comment on the reduction of porn being beneficial IMO. I removed porn websites from the view when one opens another internet tab (and browser history) and find myself to have significantly decreased viewing them.

I think we live in a hyper-stimuli environment that our nervous system 'fight or flight" mechanisms aren't designed to deal with .

Post ejaculatory pain is also a very common symptom of prostatitis? This might be related. Do you experience frequent urination ? Dr Rodney Anderson ( Urology professor @ stanford) and Dr. David wise believe prostatitis is caused by stress induced dysfunction of the pelvic floor. Here is the book i just finished reading if your interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Headache-Pelvis-5th-David-Wise/dp/0972775544/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321832595&sr=8-1

However this is still controversial and your condition may be totally unrelated so don't let some anonymous internet poster like me give you any anxiety

CS-
To follow up on Virtua_'s question:

what in your opinion would be a correct course of action if one has a
varicocele or a neurotransmitter imbalance related to such a problem?

Thanks

Check your adrenals! This almost definitely sounds like adrenal issues. After orgasm there is a large prolonged release of prolactin (days or weeks), which lowers dhea and vice-versa. If your adrenals are weak and not producing enough dhea to begin with, then the increase in prolactin and drop in dhea might be enough to cause your symptoms.

Maybe check your prolactin as well as 24 hour adrenal test. Prolactin can indicate a possible adrenal tumor as far as I remember.

Basically most people have said similar things- i.e weak kidneys, or adrenals which sit atop them.

granger451 wrote:CS-
To follow up on Virtua_'s question:

what in your opinion would be a correct course of action if one has a
varicocele or a neurotransmitter imbalance related to such a problem?

Thanks

From what I've read neurotransmitter testing is not accurate, and the best way to figure out NT issues is by symptoms. I have an article somewhere on this. The most implicated NT in sex is dopamine. Serotonin has an inhibitory response, and that's why ssri meds almost always cause sexual dysfunction. There may be something going on with your dopaminergic system. Do you have an addictive personality? Do you eat, have sex, smoke, drink, coffee, regularly? These things all increase dopamine. Are you depressed or lack energy?

Varicocele treatment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicocele#Possible_treatment

Mastery wrote:Easy one, this...

Weak kidney yang = hair loss & adrenal burnout

Go see good TCM...

What is TCM?

On another note regarding this post, I believe I have the same issue. I have found it to be called over sexual stimulation. I'm also suffering post finasteride syndrome, which plays a part in it.. so it could be prostatis related since finasteride does shrink the prostate.
Here's a forum of people who have it: recover dot forumup dot org

I also have a variceole, but I found it to disapear without any masturbation, hot baths, and avoiding chicken. I couldn't tell you why, but chicken causes it to come back. I found a website (I couldn't give you the address b/c i dont have it), but the treatment for variccele it said was to take 45 minute hot bath every night with epsom salts, not maturbating, and avoiding animal meat.

There's also this chinese doctor that is big on over sexual stimulation at actionlove dot com that believes this is a big problem as well.