I want to gain mass.

tooyoung wrote:

To avoid being demonized by Danny Roddy

LittleFighter - What do you mean by this? Do you not this his diet works?

I think his diet works. It won't regrow hair, but will slow down the loss and help preserve what you have, plus improve your health and solve existing problems. Basically he follows the same people I follow in terms of research, opinions, etc. I think he's a smart guy and worth to hear.

If you look at his blog, he heavily criticizes this forum and its users... but I must say that I think he's right in different ways, but I don't agree 100% with him. For example I don't believe supplements are useless. Also, diet won't regrow hair.

LittleFighter wrote:

tooyoung wrote:

To avoid being demonized by Danny Roddy

LittleFighter - What do you mean by this? Do you not this his diet works?

I think his diet works. It won't regrow hair, but will slow down the loss and help preserve what you have, plus improve your health and solve existing problems. Basically he follows the same people I follow in terms of research, opinions, etc. I think he's a smart guy and worth to hear.

If you look at his blog, he heavily criticizes this forum and its users... but I must say that I think he's right in different ways, but I don't agree 100% with him. For example I don't believe supplements are useless. Also, diet won't regrow hair.

That's pretty much my take on him, he's sincere and a very independant thinker and I really enjoy his site. Upon saying that, what diet is to us isn't what diet was to our ancestors.

pancacke wrote:

Prague wrote:A good compromise could be some little protein/carbs before a workout, followed by fat/protein postWO meal and a high carb meal as the last one of the day. IMO the "postWO window" for carbs consumption is quite long (longer than protein window), i'd say even 12h

I think the opposit is true. There is certainly no windo PW where you shouldn't eat protein after! Insuin spike is most usefull right after workout and as a last meal not recommended because it lowers HGH which is highest at the first hours of sleep. Lastly be carefull with fat after workout, even though it pushes testosterone and does other godd things, it also slows the absorbtion of protein.

this is a common approach but not completely true;

the protein window is quite long (i'd say 4 hours) but the carb window doesn't exist: if you eat carbs 1h after WO you get the same effect (or maybe smaller) than if you eat a steak after and you wait 6 hours and you get your carbs as the last meal. I've posted over here a great complex study about carbs drogondoor.com, it's called critical carbs if i remember. Carbs you should avoid during the day (the extra HGH production during the overweights the HGH production (possible loss) due to eating carbs before bed since it's less affected - the body produces HGH anyway during the night - actually the difference is very big in favour of eating carbs as the last meal - it's linked to sympathetic nervous system (SNS) and parasympathetic - i would repeat myself, it's somewhere here in a previous thread

Nocturalhorse

we have a very similar approach, personally i never eat carbs before wo neither combine protein/carbs, the guys performing better on carbs as pre-wo meal are insuline resistant mostly (they need carbs as a fuel)

Again, there is no protein window, if you eat a steak 3 days after your workout it still has impact. Recharging with high glycemic carbs makes sense right after your workout because you burned everthing while working out! So you take high glycemic carbs that produce insulin spike because they recharge you quickly. If you need to recharge in 4 hours you would want to eat long-chain carbs like rice and stuff.
Of course your body will produce HGH even if you have high insulin levels but it will be less HGH which definitly makes a difference. I didn't hear of any benefits of eating carbs before going to bed and it would suprise me but who knows...

pancake

there's definitely a protein window - to eat protein 48h after the training isn't the same as 4hours. But I agree that the window is longer than the 2h usually mentioned among bodybuilders. The carb window doesn't exist and actually it's false what you say, otherwise the dr. Mauro di Pasquale Anabolic diet wouldn't work (eating carbs 2 days of the week in rest periods, usually weekend) which means huge carbs loading some 5 days after the first training - and it works wonders

The other myth is that you need to replenish carbs after the training - ok, you maybe do but a healthy body doesn't - during the wo the body uses fat as energy mostly (the exception are insuline resistant to whom it's very painful switch to this healthy mode of using ketones/fat) and it stays in this mode after the wo - it needs fat/protein
To supply immediately carbs it gets back to the sugar burning mode which is contraproductive, the lower the sugar is, the bigger the anabolic effect from the carb loading is. IME the longer one waits with carbs loading, better.

to caricature this approach, i have hard times imagine hunters some thousand years ago or even soldiers some 200 years ago that after a long hunt / battle say: "wait, i need my high carb snack, get me some milkshake, it's the post battle carb window

LittleFighter wrote:Good carbs TOO.

Rice, potatoes, tubers....



No wheat, grains or legumes though.

Why are potatoes good carbs? The last time I checked, potatoes have a high insulin demand.
Are there other parameters by which we should be evaluating carbohydrate foods besides insulin demand?

-mphatesmpb

tooyoung wrote:

Prague wrote:

tooyoung wrote:

To avoid being demonized by Danny Roddy

LittleFighter - What do you mean by this? Do you not this his diet works?

i haven't read the book but I like Danny's approach, he definitely knows what he's talking about and is able to use his brain on his own

I've read his book. His quick start guide suggests a diet of only meat/fish and potatoes. You mentioned earlier in the thread:

"Cycle carbs instead and not more than once a day. You do want insuline spike (after wotkout or even a couple of hours later in the evening) but not insuline resistance."

Would you say a diet of meat and potatoes only would not be good?

IMO a diet of potato and meat only if better than 99% diets. Hairwisely it's a good option. Of course some variations would be welcome but beef potato is a good choice. Pesonally I like to split Fat/carbs (especially saturated, wild fish with carbs is ok) and protein/carbs (unless the protein is a part of the carbs eg buckwheat) and would eat 2 portions of meat/fat during the day and potatoes as the last meal. Respecting seasons is important IME, winter diet is really different to the summer one, you need more fat, cholesterol, crucifeous is a must in dark winter months IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5koxmucIAPk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKXCtHC67Ec&feature=channel - good explication why carbs after training is a NO
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/186 - one of the best articles about carbs
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/318/ - eating late
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGpdAfFpMxA&feature=related - protein window

OK Prague, let's just dissagree on this one
Important is that you do work out and I didn't for the last few weeks because....I'm an idiot. I will restart today here is my plan:
Workout 5 days a week(shoulders; arms/abs; legs; back; chest/abs)
workload cycles as suggested in optimum anabolics;
fasting 1 hour before workout but massive hydration;
homemade fruitjuice and protein after WO;
Fat/protein rich meal with some long-chain carbs ~1hour after WO;

The hard part is I have to use normal milk as proteinsource since I don't get quality whey here and I don't know if milk hurts my hair...we'll see

no problem pancake

i followed this mainstream approach some years ago with disastrous results. Since I changed the routine i'm more than satisfied with the results - i even gained a free subscription to the local gym after i shared this approach with the manager since it worked pretty well for him

Some other remarks we might disagree on: I'm not a fan of a massive hydration, I rarely drink more than 1l of water;
1h is no fasting, it happens to me to have ACV/lemon/honey breakfast, a piece of meat/fat for lunch and to go working out at 7pm with no problems, then a carb diner (i developped a sensibility to know when carbs are needed, sometimes little carbs 2h later, sometimes lot of them 5h later, sometimes other day - but do not go more than 48h without carbs); i also rarely exercise more than 3 times per week and never more than 45min, no machines, no isolation, no passive stretching, no smith machine, no seated presses, no wide-grip pull-up, no gloves, no belts

Sounds good, I would like to reduce workout to three days but don't know how to split?
Free weights are best, I only use free wights but heard of intersting ideas when combining with isolation in supersets(think reason was to weaken specific muscles). Honestly, I don't think about carbs a lot. If you have enough protein your muscles will grow so thats my priority. Time to go now, finaly I'm going to drink milk again yeah! lechayim

Prague wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5koxmucIAPk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKXCtHC67Ec&feature=channel - good explication why carbs after training is a NO
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/186 - one of the best articles about carbs
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/318/ - eating late
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGpdAfFpMxA&feature=related - protein window

Awesome links Prague, I have been a huge fan of Ori since getting my hands on his Warrior's Diet book and lurking on Dragon Door forums. You should also try listening to Robb Wolf's podcasts. Some very intriguing stuff.

pancacke wrote:OK Prague, let's just dissagree on this one
Important is that you do work out and I didn't for the last few weeks because....I'm an idiot. I will restart today here is my plan:
Workout 5 days a week(shoulders; arms/abs; legs; back; chest/abs)
workload cycles as suggested in optimum anabolics;
fasting 1 hour before workout but massive hydration;
homemade fruitjuice and protein after WO;
Fat/protein rich meal with some long-chain carbs ~1hour after WO;

The hard part is I have to use normal milk as proteinsource since I don't get quality whey here and I don't know if milk hurts my hair...we'll see

It's been very clearly discussed in this forum that pasteurized milk is one of the worst things for your hair.

IMO the three bests books for training...

1 Starting Strength...Mark Rippetoe
2 Beyond bodybuilding... Pavel Tsatsouline
3 5 3 1....Jim Wendler

Three best books for nutrition..

1 Paleo Solution... Robb Wolf
2 Primal Blueprint... Mark Sisson
3 Anti estrogenic Diet..Ori Hoffmekler.

If I had to add another two...

1 Fiber Menace.. Konstantin Monastyrski
2 living low carb Jonny Bowden.

Yeah, I figuered that out yesterday..the hard way-inflammation hit almost immediatly, had gas but no shedding when I washed my hair later. I thought the milk I was using isn't that problematic because it is pretty high quality, expiration date of 3 days....
I was wrong, but I'm glad I know it for sure now.
The trouble with milk, in my case and many others, come from mercury since it makes you lactose intolerant which messes with potassium levels and therefor the inflammation-Makes sense?!

Hey Redhead.

I think most of the guys here obviously know what they are talking about but i wanna give you some tips of my own

1 - If you are REALLY skinny, i would start just with push-ups free weights for 5-6 months. This will give you mass, but also turn your Chest bulky. In fact i think push-ups are hands down the best exercise out there. Carefull with free weights though, start small and make sure you're doing it in right form. If you back is elastic you should be fine even if your form is a bit off.
2 - Eat Tuna/Egg/Chicken after worksouts. Pasta before workouts when you can.
3 - Like Elan said, 8+ hours of sleep is essential
4 - add set-ups after 2-3 months. And Cross bar if you can handle it.
5 - Pushups 3-4 times a week, set-ups you can do every day. You can do once in a week a super workout - like push-up workout and then weights.
6 - In time your push-ups will become easier, so just increase the repetition and lower the rest between your sets

If you want me to tell you how to start exactly i'll be happy too
Good luck!