Re: Coming off Proscar after 10+ years ...excited yet scared.Where to begin?

BG Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:23 pm

Hairseeker I think its a hard battle for men of any age when you identify with your hair on any level .My hats off to those that don't care and shave it off. My head just isn't made for that and I do think that there is a underlying cause to it all. Best of luck to you .How fast did you notice shedding each of the times you stopped fin?

HairSeeker Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:01 am

BG wrote:Hairseeker I think its a hard battle for men of any age when you identify with your hair on any level .My hats off to those that don't care and shave it off. My head just isn't made for that and I do think that there is a underlying cause to it all. Best of luck to you .How fast did you notice shedding each of the times you stopped fin?

I agree with regard to shaving. Hats off indeed, some guys actually look better with the buzzed look, but most of us don't. It took about a week or two to see an increase in shedding after I stop fin. I measure by brushing my hair over the sink. My usually loss is about 5-8 hair strands. When I stop, this increases to about 15-20. I know that we can lose up to 100 hairs daily, but this is very rare for me. It happened once about two years ago after a stressful time in my life. One day I decided to see how much hair I was losing so I used my fingers to roughly agitate my scalp over my desk. I was shedding like a dog. Must have lost 200 hairs. Very scary.
CS is right on the money with regard to inflammation. I suffer from chronic GI Tract inflammation, which has lasted about two years now. I feel that this is the root cause of my loss.
You may want to try changing your Propecia dose frequency. I take a pill every two to three days. This helps with symptoms and maintains my hair. Anything over 7 - 10 days and you may start to see shedding. We are all different, so don't take this as gospel. Your experience may be very different then mine. I hope you find something that works. We can keep our fingers crossed and hope that hair cloning proves to be the answer.

BG Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:12 am

HS- I've stopped cold about 2 months ago. I don't see any negative effects as of yet. I actually feel better now than at any part of my life at 36 years old. I think cutting out grains is a huge part of this. I still have a wait and see attitude for my hair and realize I'm not out of the woulds yet. What do you think is the cause of your gut inflammation?

CS- Do you have any input on my blood work? I know you are a busy guy but your input would be greatly appreciated here .Thanks.

hdawn Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:13 am

HS - My hair loss was pretty rapid for the first 2.5 months after I quit finasteride. This was accompanied by a lot of scalp inflammation (very itchy). However, over the past 1.5 months my inflammation has been reduced to almost nothing. I also believe my hair loss has now slowed although it's hard to tell because I buzzed my hair pretty short (#3). The inflammation stopped immediately after i buzzed my head and started using a topical emu+coconut+olive oil cream 2x daily. The loss I've experienced thus far is fairly diffuse.

On a separate note, buzzing my head has been a great experience thus far. Most people seem to like it, and it is a heck of a lot easier than having longer hair. The transition to completly bald someday will be more traumatic i'm sure but I think I'm better prepared for it having done this - within 5 days it was literally as though nothing changed.

HairSeeker Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:39 pm

hdawn wrote:HS - My hair loss was pretty rapid for the first 2.5 months after I quit finasteride. This was accompanied by a lot of scalp inflammation (very itchy). However, over the past 1.5 months my inflammation has been reduced to almost nothing. I also believe my hair loss has now slowed although it's hard to tell because I buzzed my hair pretty short (#3). The inflammation stopped immediately after i buzzed my head and started using a topical emu+coconut+olive oil cream 2x daily. The loss I've experienced thus far is fairly diffuse.

On a separate note, buzzing my head has been a great experience thus far. Most people seem to like it, and it is a heck of a lot easier than having longer hair. The transition to completly bald someday will be more traumatic i'm sure but I think I'm better prepared for it having done this - within 5 days it was literally as though nothing changed.

Buzzing the hair is a big step. Glad to hear that you like the look. I’ve thought about it many times but never had the courage to actually do it. I just don’t know if I can pull off that look. I’m in pretty good physical condition, but losing the hair is a huge step for me. I still have good coverage and am hoping that I can maintain what I have. If things get worse, I may have visit the barber.
I stopped fin for three months before and did not experience the rapid loss you did, so perhaps my problem is not as aggressive.

HairSeeker Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:42 pm

BG wrote:HS- I've stopped cold about 2 months ago. I don't see any negative effects as of yet. I actually feel better now than at any part of my life at 36 years old. I think cutting out grains is a huge part of this. I still have a wait and see attitude for my hair and realize I'm not out of the woulds yet. What do you think is the cause of your gut inflammation?

Bg – I’m really not sure what’s causing my inflammation. CS thinks mercury may be the root cause, but I’ve never checked my levels. What I’ve read, it’s difficult to measure how much mercury we actually have in our cells if the exposure occurred over many years. I had amalgam filling in my mouth for two decades and ate sushi every weekend for at least five years, so this has most likely increased my level.

CS- Do you have any input on my blood work? I know you are a busy guy but your input would be greatly appreciated here .Thanks.

BG Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:27 am

Not a good week for the hair. I tried taking Beta K which is a creatine /beta alanine suppplement.My workouts are great but I've felt like my scalp is really inflamed and not going away which it usually does after shampoo,aloe vera/clay etc. I also drank on the weekend .Maybe four drinks but this was never an issue while on fin.To top it all off I met and went out on a date with the hottest girl I've ever met this week so I don't need my hair to fall out now.

BG Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:55 am

Hey Guys.

This week is a little better so far. My itch has calmed down and I think/hope my shed is over. Weird thing though and I forgot to mention this last week. My right ball is seriously aching and my sex drive is gone.I can still get it up but my morning wood is gone.I'm taking Maca but usually I feel it right away but this time nothing. I have an appointment with a endocrinologist in September. Is this to be expected from coming off Fin 2 months after the fact?

BG Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:43 pm

Hi Everyone

Just thought I would post an update...
It`s approximately 4.5 months since dropping the proscar and this is where I`m at now. My hair seems to be hanging on but I am thinner (less than 5%)at my vertex than when I first stopped. One thing I noticed though was when on fin I could tug on my scalp at the crown and pull out a bunch of hairs.This does not happen now.The hair that is still there seems to be stronger.I have little vellus(sp)hairs growing in my temple region(I find this positive).If I don`t lose anymore I`ll be happy .
My sex drive still sucks but I can get it up if need be. Overall my mood is better as well. My diet could use work and I`m leaning towards cutting fruit out as it just makes me hungry and I stay leaner when off it.I also think this may be why my liver aches from time to time.Who knows though.Have another appointment in 2 weeks with the endocrinologist and we will see where my hormones are at then.
BG

P.S saving up for LLLT now as I think that could really help or halt things

BG Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:03 am

Thought I would post a quick update. I've lost no hair since my last post at the end of October 2010. My sex drive is still crap but better than it was since my last post. I still find I'm fatigued during the day and have a dull ache on my right side just below the rib. My diet has been crappy lately and I feel scalp itch because of it. I need to clear that up asap.I started taking my temperature at morning and night and hover around 96 degrees. I'm hoping if I can get this cleared up I can get some regrowth.

I am quite pleased that I still have a full head of hair more or less.

Thanks to everyone for all their help and input.

Cheers

nidhogge Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:19 am

BG--

Few of us are doing a full body detox, seems like you would stand to benefit as well:

http://dherbs.com/store/full-body-detox-p-1.html

All the best!

oblomov Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:41 pm

BG wrote:So I received my blood work results this week and wanted to see what anyone can make of them

Vitamin D 139 nmol/L I think I've read elsewhere that this testing can be inaccurate?

Estradial 291 PMOL/L Even by their testing standards are high

Dihydrotestosterone= 3885 PMOL/L High...shit

TSH 4.964 mIU/L
Free T4 11 pmol/L These seem normal?
Free T3 3.9 pmol/L

Prolactin 9
Testosterone 14.4 Low normal

Forgot to get SHBG tested .

I had these done on the 17th of June ,thats a couple of weeks since stopping the fin.
I'm feeling much better overall. I'm on the top 6 + iodine and some topicals. Ive made some good changes to my diet but theres sill room for improvement. I'm definitely getting itchy /inflamed scalp probably every other day but only for a short time. I use aloe vera as soon as it happens and that seems to squash it.Not sure if the aloe has a real impact but it feels great. I guess I have to go threw some hair growth/loss cycles to see if what I'm doing is working. I can say that I have lost a little from the temple and none on top.

Anyone have any thoughts on this ?

BG, what would you estimate your body fat % to be?

Vigorous aerobic exercise about 4 hours before bedtime is a great way to lower DHT. '

Also, have you considered supplementing with calcium d-glucarate? It can help your liver metabolize the estradiol.

DIM can also help, by converting estradiol into less powerful forms of estrogen (estrone and estriol) that may have benefits for men with respect to bone health, insulin sensitivity, and sexual health.

EricBee Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:08 pm

I have to jump in. Hearing of that weird pain under your right lower rib...I remember having the same thing. I wasn't sure if it was the weekend drinking, or fin. But since quitting Proscar, I haven't felt it again. Bad stuff indeed. I was taking Proscar for nearly 10 years until finally quitting last July. I did however slowly stop using it. I would skip days, then weeks until finally stopping. I did notice a bit of a shed after 3 months or so. But now, things are WAY better. Not only in the mental arena (WAY less social anxiety) but also my hair. I too, feel that my hair is stronger (when pulling) than when it was when taking fin.

Thanks for the info about Bromide and Proscar. It's even more assurance into my recent decision into supplementing Iodine. My advice to anyone considering quitting fin indefinitely, is to slowly ween your way off. And while doing so, to at least supplement EC and the Res/Cur duo. I feel that these specifically have dramatically helped my hair/inflammation through the transition. Best of luck. Your liver and brain will be thanking you.

Eric

BG Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:24 pm

Thought I would give an update as it has been quite some time.

Overall I have lost a little more on the vertex over the last several months . To be fair though I've gone through one of the most stressful periods of my life and had to stop the top 6 due to financial concerns. I've been having a tough time with inflammation and scalp itch but that seems to be improving from a combo of castor oil,ACV and aloe. My hair is not shedding at least for the time being.
Also I went to see a specialist for the prostatitus issue I've been having ever since I can remember. He seemed to think it was a localized bacterial infection which I thought was interesting. Prostate massage is part of the treatment plan and I am not cool about it but my health comes before ego.
As far as the after effects of stopping Proscar my sex drive is completely normal if not better then its ever been .My energy could be better although I wake up 2-3 times a night to take a piss due to the prostatitus . I'm still having this dull ache on my right side .I'm getting a scan done on my pelvic region plus prostate and abdomen to rule out any other issues. Thats all free .
Go Canada Health Care!

dreft Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:08 am

BG - For prostatitis you might try this: http://www.prostatitis.org/broccindex.html

I also took proscar for about two years and had a lot of prostatitis symptoms like yours, but only since I started taking fin. You are saying that you're having the problem since forever.
After I quit Proscar, I did the broccoli treatment from the link above. It is worth a shot, you will have to drink broccoli broth made by you in a certain way (explained on the site, btw that guy doesn't sell anything which makes it all much more credible), but pay attention at the details and do it the right way.

Paradox Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:12 pm

CS,

I've posed this question before when pregnenolone is discussed to help with the allopregnanolone related gaba side-effects of 5ar inhibition:

This image helps illustrate what I am talking about.
Coming off Proscar after 10+ years ...excited yet scared.Where to begin? - Page 2 Rupprecht_03_01

Coming off Proscar after 10+ years ...excited yet scared.Where to begin? - Page 2 Rupprecht_03_01

As you can see from the chart, Pregnenolone is way up after cholesterol, and allopregnanolone (3a,5a-THP) is on the bottom right of the chart... So I don't understand how increasing pregnenolone would make any difference in allopregnanolone levels when 5ar inhibition is present. 5ar is the only pathway that progesterone can take to get to 3a,5a-THP. It seems logical to me that if 5ar is inhibited, more progesterone would just end up going the androsteindione route? Am I missing something here?

CausticSymmetry Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:31 am

Paradox - Transdermal delivery is key here, and its use will help the adrenal glands and since the brain benefits from the neurosteroids produced, the idea is that there is more of the mother hormone to produce the metabolites. 5-AR doesn't inhibit fully, so the more hormone, the more available neurosteroids.

You'll know if it works by using a transdermal pregenolone cream. If there's no difference in anxiety or depressive symptoms, will be the test.

Paradox Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:48 am

CausticSymmetry wrote:Paradox - Transdermal delivery is key here, and its use will help the adrenal glands and since the brain benefits from the neurosteroids produced, the idea is that there is more of the mother hormone to produce the metabolites. 5-AR doesn't inhibit fully, so the more hormone, the more available neurosteroids.

You'll know if it works by using a transdermal pregenolone cream. If there's no difference in anxiety or depressive symptoms, will be the test.

I see CS, thanks. I just have a few questions:

Do you know of anyone this has worked with in practice, or is it just theory?

Is testing for pregnenolone levels worth -while?

If one has adrenal fatigue like me and is taking cortef, is pregnenolone a good idea?

CausticSymmetry Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am

Paradox - Transdermal pregenolone is ideal for adrenal fatigue.

Testing is not reliable unless it is through urine testing. It's probably not necessary.
It would be cheaper to try it, than to test for it.

It's theory on the AR-blocking.

BG Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:59 pm

So it's been just over two years since initially quitting the proscar. My vertex has declined in density over the last couple of months but I have included brushing into my regimen. Overall I could be happier with where I am at but to be honest I am surprised I still have as much hair as I do considering dropping a powerful drug .
My finances are slowly getting back to normal and I'm hoping to update with some pics soon before starting on a new regimen.
I really enjoy this sight and all the info it provides.

sanderson Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:31 pm

BG wrote:So it's been just over two years since initially quitting the proscar. My vertex has declined in density over the last couple of months but I have included brushing into my regimen. Overall I could be happier with where I am at but to be honest I am surprised I still have as much hair as I do considering dropping a powerful drug .
My finances are slowly getting back to normal and I'm hoping to update with some pics soon before starting on a new regimen.
I really enjoy this sight and all the info it provides.

what did you do exactly to keep your hair while you got off? you say you have been losing hair, but you had a time when you had no hair loss, but you didn't go into your regimen exactly.

BG Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:08 am

Sanderson

I did the top six and iodine along with clay ,aloe, and ACV topicals and a heavy metal detox.
I think then top six was effective as I didn't have any scalp inflammation. I am currently experiencing that though . The topical doesn't seem to be enough at this point.
There is still room for improvement though.

In the last year I have had a increase in body hair and I have bags under my eyes that won't go away.My skin has taken a beating for some reason as well. I will be returning to the top six shortly plus rejuvaplex if possible.

I do believe I am hypothyroid although I'm in great shape my body tempeture hovers around 96 degrees and I can't sleep through the night. I have some ideas to help combat this starting soon.

I'm still confident I can beat this and don't plan on giving up anytime soon.

BG

BG Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:52 pm

Started the the Top 6 plus rejuvaplex about 2 and a half weeks ago. Inflammation is better. Mood and energy are mostly better . My body temperature is still consistently low. I've also had an issue with lower libido and minor ED. The libido and ED is new except for the first month or so after I initially stopped the fin. So I'm concerned this is still related to stopping fin. I could be wrong .

I'm thinking I'm hypothyroid but not sure how to approach things going forward. Suggestions?

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