Coming off Proscar after 10+ years ...excited yet scared.Where to begin?

Hello All

I've been lurking on the sight now for a couple of months and reallly like what I'm reading here. After reading about the poison that is finasteride here and on other sites I've decided to try another approach. My experience with finasteride was positive when it came to hair loss(I have only very mild thinning on the crown , same since I started 10 years ago) but recently I have noticed a decline in libido. I think I have experienced the forgetfulness and brain fog associated with fin use. I never drew a correlation between the two before. Very scary stuff. Now this could be related to other things but In recent months I have totally cleaned up my diet,got rid of my microwave and incorporated a much healthier lifestyle overall especially after reading some of the information on here.
After seeing a nutritionist last week she was convinced that I have a heavy metal issue.It makes sense in relation to some of my health issues (prostiatitus ,frequent urination,low flow,forgetfulness,insomnia).I think after what I've read here that clearing this issue up will go a long way to help me out.
I hold the position that outside of rare genetic abnormalities/diseases the body doesn't do anything without a reason including going bald.I think that once I'm healthy that I should be able to retain the hair that I have.

CS I really appreciate all the information you are providing here.

I have a couple of questions:
1) Is there anything you would add to the top 6 in regards to coming off fin?
2) Dulse has 330% of the rda for iodine. Can I load up on this stuff or should I be taking the real deal?

I have more thoughts and concerns but I think this is good for now.

thanks

BG

BG - Based on how finasteride works, supplementing with pregenolone may help offset some of the problems associated with it, at least with regard to neurosteroid protection. In other regards, acetyl l-carnitine will also help compensate somewhat. There are other issues, but those are the basics.

If you come off of finasteride (a great idea), you might consider temporarily using a topical such as Super Zix-II while your body adjusts. Or you may taper off your dose gradually.

Dulse isn't really enough iodine (330% RDA) is will pretty small compared to optimal levels.

Would instead recommend using several drops of Iosol (1.8 mg per drop).

what are the benefits to using pregenolone cream?

BG wrote:Hello All

I've been lurking on the sight now for a couple of months and reallly like what I'm reading here. After reading about the poison that is finasteride here and on other sites I've decided to try another approach. My experience with finasteride was positive when it came to hair loss(I have only very mild thinning on the crown , same since I started 10 years ago) but recently I have noticed a decline in libido. I think I have experienced the forgetfulness and brain fog associated with fin use. I never drew a correlation between the two before. Very scary stuff. Now this could be related to other things but In recent months I have totally cleaned up my diet,got rid of my microwave and incorporated a much healthier lifestyle overall especially after reading some of the information on here.
After seeing a nutritionist last week she was convinced that I have a heavy metal issue.It makes sense in relation to some of my health issues (prostiatitus ,frequent urination,low flow,forgetfulness,insomnia).I think after what I've read here that clearing this issue up will go a long way to help me out.
I hold the position that outside of rare genetic abnormalities/diseases the body doesn't do anything without a reason including going bald.I think that once I'm healthy that I should be able to retain the hair that I have.

CS I really appreciate all the information you are providing here.

I have a couple of questions:
1) Is there anything you would add to the top 6 in regards to coming off fin?
2) Dulse has 330% of the rda for iodine. Can I load up on this stuff or should I be taking the real deal?

I have more thoughts and concerns but I think this is good for now.

thanks

BG

BG --

When I first joined this forum, I quit fin & minox. My experience included shedding, followed by a halt in hair loss. I've taken the top 6, in addition to other supplements. My hair looks better now than it ever did while on fin. My face also looks better now that I'm off minox.

If you're going to quit finasteride, I recommend taking Iodine to deal with drug-related bromide accumulation.

Also, if you've experienced side effects, I'd look for supplements to deal with them. Maca worked well for me, as did Chasteberry.

That's a good point by LA-Night about the iodine.

blackjack - Allopregnanolone is suppressed by finasteride because it is synthesized from 5-alpha reductase. Having this deficit can induce depression and anxiety.

Here's an older article about neurosteroids:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/07/040713082347.htm

LA-Night wrote:

BG wrote:Hello All

I've been lurking on the sight now for a couple of months and reallly like what I'm reading here. After reading about the poison that is finasteride here and on other sites I've decided to try another approach. My experience with finasteride was positive when it came to hair loss(I have only very mild thinning on the crown , same since I started 10 years ago) but recently I have noticed a decline in libido. I think I have experienced the forgetfulness and brain fog associated with fin use. I never drew a correlation between the two before. Very scary stuff. Now this could be related to other things but In recent months I have totally cleaned up my diet,got rid of my microwave and incorporated a much healthier lifestyle overall especially after reading some of the information on here.
After seeing a nutritionist last week she was convinced that I have a heavy metal issue.It makes sense in relation to some of my health issues (prostiatitus ,frequent urination,low flow,forgetfulness,insomnia).I think after what I've read here that clearing this issue up will go a long way to help me out.
I hold the position that outside of rare genetic abnormalities/diseases the body doesn't do anything without a reason including going bald.I think that once I'm healthy that I should be able to retain the hair that I have.

CS I really appreciate all the information you are providing here.

I have a couple of questions:
1) Is there anything you would add to the top 6 in regards to coming off fin?
2) Dulse has 330% of the rda for iodine. Can I load up on this stuff or should I be taking the real deal?

I have more thoughts and concerns but I think this is good for now.

thanks

BG

BG --

When I first joined this forum, I quit fin & minox. My experience included shedding, followed by a halt in hair loss. I've taken the top 6, in addition to other supplements. My hair looks better now than it ever did while on fin. My face also looks better now that I'm off minox.

If you're going to quit finasteride, I recommend taking Iodine to deal with drug-related bromide accumulation.

Also, if you've experienced side effects, I'd look for supplements to deal with them. Maca worked well for me, as did Chasteberry.

How long were you on fin? I have tried to quit several times but each time I stop I lose more ground. I go through long shedding periods. The only thing that seems to help is getting back on the drug. How long were you off fin before you started to grow back what was lost, and did it grow back thicker or thinner?
I didn’t know that fin contains bromide. Were you taking Iodine while on fin, did it help?

HairSeeker --

I was on fin/minox for 5 years.

It took 6 months to regrow what I lost during my intense post-finasteride shed. But my hair is way thicker now. I regrew what I lost.

I wasn't on iodine while I was on fin. It wasn't until I dropped fin that I realized how messed up my body was.

When I dropped fin, I decided to make radical dietary changes. I also had to make a commitment to taking so many natural supplements. Thankfully, it's paid off.

I'm now utterly convinced that healing your body will heal your hair, and that diet plays a huge role in hair loss.

LA-Night wrote:HairSeeker --

I was on fin/minox for 5 years.

It took 6 months to regrow what I lost during my intense post-finasteride shed. But my hair is way thicker now. I regrew what I lost.

I wasn't on iodine while I was on fin. It wasn't until I dropped fin that I realized how messed up my body was.

When I dropped fin, I decided to make radical dietary changes. I also had to make a commitment to taking so many natural supplements. Thankfully, it's paid off.

I'm now utterly convinced that healing your body will heal your hair, and that diet plays a huge role in hair loss.

That is very encouraging news! I hope you don’t mind a few more question? You said that you grew back the lost hair after about six months. Does this apply to all areas of your scalp, even your hairline? What are you taking now? Anything topical?
I started on fin and Xandrox in 2000 and stopped Xandrox in mid 08 because I thought it had lost its effectiveness. That was my first shed. Then I stopped fin because of sides several times, which caused more sheds. Going back to fin brings back some of the hair I’ve lost, but the quality is not the same. It’s thinner and weaker. Would you say the quality of your hair quality is better now that you are off fin?
I agree with your health theory. I’ve been trying to get back on track for several years now. Too much partying over the last two decades.

HairSeeker --

The hair that regrew after 6 months applies to all areas of my scalp, including my hairline.

Right now I'm taking a host of supplements: the same extensive regimen as CS, plus other supps like Maca, L-Lysine, etc.

The most important moves I made after dropping fin? Cleaning up my diet (for my metabolic type & family history of diabetes, that meant more protein, less sugar/carbs), taking iodine daily to combat bromide, taking supplements to repair my exhausted adrenal glands, and doing a heavy metal cleanse. I've had to methodically reverse years of dietary negligence & drug (fin) abuse.

After dropping fin, I wanted to start from scratch so I shaved my head. That's when I started using emu oil on my hairline & it helped. Now that my hair is longer, I only use DMSO topically.

Fortunately, my hair looks better now than when I was on fin -- it's way thicker. I'm 25 & people are coming up to me asking what I've done differently. My hair looks better now than when I was 19, no joke. My hair color has also changed from light brown to dark brown, bordering on black.

But I urge those who want to drop as powerful a drug as finasteride to first make a plan of attack that will sustain them long-term. There are no quick-fixes in this game -- only patience and a stubborn willingness to experiment.

Thanks for all the input everyone.

CS-I have a bottle of iodine from the health food store. Anything wrong with just using that? Also pregnenolone is not available over the counter here(toronto) is there anything else I can use in the meantime? Maca?

LA - I can totally relate to the minox uglies. I was like WTF is going on with my face? Its been less than a week off the stuff and I'm pretty sure there's a difference. I read on one of your posts you had a detox flu? I think I experienced that this week as well. I was feeling as good as ever from cutting out some stuff in my diet and doing some juicing.I also fasted this past Sunday. But yesterday BAM! I was steamrolled and I don't get sick very often but this was out of nowhere and in the middle of June I think it's more than coincidence. Whats the deal with DMSO?

BG

I also made the decision to get off pharmaceuticals recently. No scalp itch or shedding yet, but it's only been a few weeks.

I would recommend for you to do a heavy metal detox and clean up your diet for a few months first. Following that adopt the IH top 6, along with iodine and any other supplements you want, and then stop the proscar.

LA-Night wrote:HairSeeker --

The hair that regrew after 6 months applies to all areas of my scalp, including my hairline.

Right now I'm taking a host of supplements: the same extensive regimen as CS, plus other supps like Maca, L-Lysine, etc.

The most important moves I made after dropping fin? Cleaning up my diet (for my metabolic type & family history of diabetes, that meant more protein, less sugar/carbs), taking iodine daily to combat bromide, taking supplements to repair my exhausted adrenal glands, and doing a heavy metal cleanse. I've had to methodically reverse years of dietary negligence & drug (fin) abuse.

After dropping fin, I wanted to start from scratch so I shaved my head. That's when I started using emu oil on my hairline & it helped. Now that my hair is longer, I only use DMSO topically.

Fortunately, my hair looks better now than when I was on fin -- it's way thicker. I'm 25 & people are coming up to me asking what I've done differently. My hair looks better now than when I was 19, no joke. My hair color has also changed from light brown to dark brown, bordering on black.

But I urge those who want to drop as powerful a drug as finasteride to first make a plan of attack that will sustain them long-term. There are no quick-fixes in this game -- only patience and a stubborn willingness to experiment.

This is very good news. Hairline re-growth is difficult.

I have been on the top on and off for about a year now. My problem is sticking to a regimen if I don’t see immediate results. Unfortunately hair grows very slowly and turning around years of neglect is even slower. You sound remarkably disciplined for 25. I’ve tried Maca but again did not notice an immediate benefit. Never tried L-Lysine, but will look into it.
I agree about the diet. This is by far the most important aspect of any good health regimen. We are what we eat. I suppose I was a combination of pizza, burgers and Mexican food, lol. Oh, and let’s not forget wine, tequila and sake.

I cut all sugar, processed foods and cut out about 90% of white flour and rice over a year ago. I am on my way to a very clean diet.

My father suffered from diabetes and eventually passed away from heart attack. So, I share your family history.

I wish you continued success with your regimen.

I recently came off finasteride after many years on the drug. It worked very well for my hair but in the last few years I started accumulating side effects that I am pretty sure are at least partially attributable to finasteride (stopped dreaming, got severe brain fog that comes/goes for weeks at a time, general decline in attention span, lost nocturnal/morning erections). Further, the accumulating research that finasteride somehow alters brain chemistry is scary. It wasn't an easy decision but I decided that hair is a lot less important then when I was young and the risks of being in finasteride for an entire lifetime are just too great.

Perhaps my situation will help prepare you a bit...not many people were on the drug as long as we were. My experience has been interesting to say the least.

So far I would say the following:
1) My hair is falling out quickly (despite a very healthy lifestyle and good supplement/topical regimen, etc). My guess is that I will lose 50-75% of my thickness in the first 12 months I am off finasteride. If you are serious about quitting, I would mentally prepare yourself to go bald. If you are not mentally prepared you will likely go back on - I have seen this exact scenario countless times (check the "coming off Dut" thread on this site).
2) My testosterone fell by almost half after I quit. I can only hope it naturally recovers (be absolutely sure to have T, DHT, E2, etc. tested before you quit). This will be an important baseline to have should something go wrong.
3) I tapered off but I don't think it mattered. I didn't notice any changes until my dose literally went to 0.
4) Morning/nocturnal erections have returned. They are more important for sexual confidence than I thought - they are nice to have.
5) My cognitive issues are still very much present. I dont know if I've done permanent damage or if they will fade with time. If you continue to have brain fog issues you should check the doctors list on www.propeciahelp.com - there is a good neuroendocrinologist helping quite a few guys.
6) My body feels as though it is riding a hormonal roller coaster. My testicles have varied in size by 25% day-by-day, I've had hot flashes, lethargy, etc. There are days I feel great and days I feel terrible. I think things take some time to normalize if you've been on the drug for a long time (particularly if you started young).

All in all, get your hormones tested, convince yourself hair doesn't matter (it really doesn't), live healthy, and stay positive.

Good luck!

I should also add that you should get real help for the mental issues. A heavy metal issue seems pretty unlikely unless you have some odd diet or lifestyle. Bring your doctor printouts of guys talking about brain fog / forgetfulness / depression, etc. Bring them the studies about finasteride and depression/neurosteroids. These are real side effects that are happening to lots of guys. But your doctor will probably refuse to admit it until it shows up on the Merck label one day. In the best case scenario brain fog is just a temporary hormonal imbalance we have created. In the worst case scenario we have somehow damaged our brains after many years of being deficient certain DHT metabolites or neurosteroids. As of right now, the medical community hasn't even begun to consider these possibilities.

Not one person in a thousand does not have some heavy metal issue, it's a matter of how much.

This site is anti-drug, there isn't any reason to prepare to bald.

CausticSymmetry wrote:Not one person in a thousand does not have some heavy metal issue, it's a matter of how much.

This site is anti-drug, there isn't any reason to prepare to bald.

I'm sure we can all benefit from getting heavy metals in check. I'm not debating that. But finasteride induced brain fog and other cognitive problems are serious issues. If minor heavy metal imbalances caused those sorts of issues we'd have lines out the door of every neurologist in the country. If you eat lead paint chips for fun, then I agree, heavy metals could be causing dense brain fog.

As for preparing to go bald, I hope the poster never has to use that inner strength. I'm sure some guys go off finasteride and can pick up the slack with natural/topical regimens. But for guys with a strong genetic predisposition to lose their hair and good results from finasteride, I think losing a lot of hair is unavoidable. That is based on reading countless user stories (including "coming off DUT" on this site) where guys tried to go off and failed. I don't doubt that the right lifestlyle, nutrition, supplements, etc. can slow the balding process - but we're dealing with a different scenario - someone who has 10 years worth of balding being held back by propecia. Once the DHT flood gates open it is scary, trust me.

I do think finasteride has the potential to be rather dangerous if used for many, many years. I applaud this site shifting guys in another direction. Especially those with slowly-progressing MPB should never touch drugs.

hdawn - I've been researching hair loss for well over ten years, I am confident than anyone can stop their hair loss when the pathology is identified.

Thanks for your input Hdawn.

It is scary indeed to think of the potential fallout after 10 yrs on a drug that as kept the majority of my hair on my head. I'm doing everything possible within my budget to make sure things go well. I'm not prepared to go bald but I'll deal with that after fighting the good fight. My health is most important to me right now.Having said that baldness is not an option.

Hi hdawn,

Unfortunately it's not minor heavy metal imbalances. Just look at all the bad press that Iodine supplementation gets and you'll get an idea. Heck, put some Iodine on a mentally ill person even topically and you'll watch them go nuts.

Probably the single best way to find out how bad your halogen imbalance and heavy metal accumulation is is by taking 50 mg of Lugol's on an empty stomach first thing in the morning with no food for a bit. If you're crawling on the ground unable to move you have some serious heavy metal issues. I don't recommend doing this off the bat like this though. Anyway, if you have zero symptoms at 50 mg consider yourself one of the lucky few in the world. Eventually, you'll get to the point that taking 100's of mg's or even 1000 mg you don't blink an eye .... no symptoms.

Here's a quote to show how toxic our world is.

Sadly, it no longer takes decades or even years to become toxic. Babies are born toxic because mercury and other metals pass through the placenta from toxic mothers. The Environmental Working Group reports that blood samples taken from the umbilical blood of newborns show an average of 287 toxins including mercury, fire retardants, pesticides and Teflon chemicals. This is a primary reason why babies come into this world with compromised digestive and immune systems. The National Academy of Sciences (NAS) estimates that over 60,000 US children are born each year at risk for life-long problems because of dangerous blood levels of mercury in their mothers.6


http://www.westonaprice.org/environmental-toxins/1447-mad-as-a-hatter.html

BG wrote:Thanks for your input Hdawn.

It is scary indeed to think of the potential fallout after 10 yrs on a drug that as kept the majority of my hair on my head. I'm doing everything possible within my budget to make sure things go well. I'm not prepared to go bald but I'll deal with that after fighting the good fight. My health is most important to me right now.Having said that baldness is not an option.

"Health is most important but baldness is not an option"...unfortunately you may have to choose. Now that we know finasteride has a significant impact on brain chemisty (most notably, reducing allopregnanolone which plays an important role in neurogenesis) I dont think any health-minded person can take the drug (except perhaps in serious cases of BPH). That's why I quit. I was talking to 2 friends this weekend, both of whom have been on finasteride for 10+ years. Neither thought they had side effects until I started probing a bit. Both have lower-than-normal libido and both felt that their cognitive function has declined notably over the past 5 years (attention span & ability to recall details in particular).

I have an almost unlimited budget but have yet to stop my rapid hairloss. I continue to try new things but I am not overly hopeful. With my genes, I'm pretty sure I could be the healthiest person on planet Earth and still go bald.

So I received my blood work results this week and wanted to see what anyone can make of them

Vitamin D 139 nmol/L I think I've read elsewhere that this testing can be inaccurate?

Estradial 291 PMOL/L Even by their testing standards are high

Dihydrotestosterone= 3885 PMOL/L High...shit


TSH 4.964 mIU/L
Free T4 11 pmol/L These seem normal?
Free T3 3.9 pmol/L

Prolactin 9
Testosterone 14.4 Low normal

Forgot to get SHBG tested .

I had these done on the 17th of June ,thats a couple of weeks since stopping the fin.
I'm feeling much better overall. I'm on the top 6 + iodine and some topicals. Ive made some good changes to my diet but theres sill room for improvement. I'm definitely getting itchy /inflamed scalp probably every other day but only for a short time. I use aloe vera as soon as it happens and that seems to squash it.Not sure if the aloe has a real impact but it feels great. I guess I have to go threw some hair growth/loss cycles to see if what I'm doing is working. I can say that I have lost a little from the temple and none on top.

Anyone have any thoughts on this ?

CS I have about 10 Arimedex pills sitting around for reasons I don't want to get into. Is there any benefit to taking them to "normalize" things? I taken a look around the site but I'm a little unsure if there would be any point to taking them.

CausticSymmetry wrote:hdawn - I've been researching hair loss for well over ten years, I am confident than anyone can stop their hair loss when the pathology is identified.

CS - How do we identify the pathology? From what I’ve read on your site and others there are three areas to research. Inflammation, blood flow and hormone balance. Great, so how does one go about finding the root cause? Our wonderful medical and insurance industries are not designed for preventative care, so there is no help there. I don't know about the rest of the members on the forum, but I don't have an unlimited medical expense budget. So, spending thousands of dollars on medical testing is not an option for me.

hdawn wrote:I recently came off finasteride after many years on the drug. It worked very well for my hair but in the last few years I started accumulating side effects that I am pretty sure are at least partially attributable to finasteride (stopped dreaming, got severe brain fog that comes/goes for weeks at a time, general decline in attention span, lost nocturnal/morning erections). Further, the accumulating research that finasteride somehow alters brain chemistry is scary. It wasn't an easy decision but I decided that hair is a lot less important then when I was young and the risks of being in finasteride for an entire lifetime are just too great.

Perhaps my situation will help prepare you a bit...not many people were on the drug as long as we were. My experience has been interesting to say the least.

So far I would say the following:
1) My hair is falling out quickly (despite a very healthy lifestyle and good supplement/topical regimen, etc). My guess is that I will lose 50-75% of my thickness in the first 12 months I am off finasteride. If you are serious about quitting, I would mentally prepare yourself to go bald. If you are not mentally prepared you will likely go back on - I have seen this exact scenario countless times (check the "coming off Dut" thread on this site).
2) My testosterone fell by almost half after I quit. I can only hope it naturally recovers (be absolutely sure to have T, DHT, E2, etc. tested before you quit). This will be an important baseline to have should something go wrong.
3) I tapered off but I don't think it mattered. I didn't notice any changes until my dose literally went to 0.
4) Morning/nocturnal erections have returned. They are more important for sexual confidence than I thought - they are nice to have.
5) My cognitive issues are still very much present. I dont know if I've done permanent damage or if they will fade with time. If you continue to have brain fog issues you should check the doctors list on www.propeciahelp.com - there is a good neuroendocrinologist helping quite a few guys.
6) My body feels as though it is riding a hormonal roller coaster. My testicles have varied in size by 25% day-by-day, I've had hot flashes, lethargy, etc. There are days I feel great and days I feel terrible. I think things take some time to normalize if you've been on the drug for a long time (particularly if you started young).

All in all, get your hormones tested, convince yourself hair doesn't matter (it really doesn't), live healthy, and stay positive.

Good luck!

Hdawn – this is very discouraging news. Many posts on this site lead one to believe that quitting is not the end of our hair. I suppose like everything else, it depends on the individual.
I’ve also been on fin for ten years and have found it VERY difficult to stop, regardless of sides. I have tried to stop three times during the past two years and every time I stop, the shedding starts. So, I quickly get back on the drug and stop the loss. It sounds like you decided to stop, took action and managed to live with your decision. You have more inner strength and self confidence then many. Another problem with fin is that is seems to increase hair loss throughout the entire scalp if one stops. At least in my case, I went from a slightly thinning NW2 when I first started fin to a slightly thinning NW5 now. I have full coverage, but have seen thinning everywhere. Is your experience similar?
I do agree with you with regard to quitting. This drug is bad news. The problem is that some of us have close bonds with our hair and the thought of going bald is very scary, even at middle age.
May I ask how long you have been off the drug and how quickly you started losing ground after you quit?