Estrogen Metabolism

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachments/male-anti-aging/21027d1208533079-jan-s-bloodtest-nutrinfluencesestrogen.pdf

Unfortunately, this is written for females, but I think much of it is useful for males.

I think a question becomes whether one needs to add DIM if you are already taking 7-HMR, which also appears to support the Phase I hydroxylation of estrogen into the 2-OH rather than 16- or 4-OH estrogens. Also, I regret that the article did not speculate very much on dosages. An interesting point is the need for something like TMG (which is just a few dollars from Swanson's) to support the Phase II methylation pathway.

Caustic,

Do you have any recommendations for dosing amounts of Calcium D-Glucarate? Also, any idea how many fruits and vegetables (preferably vegetables) you'd have to eat before it became unnecessary to supplement with it?

EIC - That's a tough call, I have no idea. Individual trial and error in this case.

CausticSymmetry wrote:EIC - That's a tough call, I have no idea. Individual trial and error in this case.

I was afraid you'd say that.

EIC--

Did I ever reply to your last e-mail? Sometimes I read them with the intention to reply later, and then forget. Tell me if so, and I'll pull it up and re-read and reply!

I don't think Bio-DIM is necessary, took it for months and meh...was taking it with Lignans. The PM Extract from Ainterol and Lignans seems to keep my hormones in good order.

nidhogge wrote:EIC--

Did I ever reply to your last e-mail? Sometimes I read them with the intention to reply later, and then forget. Tell me if so, and I'll pull it up and re-read and reply!

I don't think so, actually. I just re-sent it. Thanks, dude.

I don't think Bio-DIM is necessary, took it for months and meh...was taking it with Lignans. The PM Extract from Ainterol and Lignans seems to keep my hormones in good order.

I think you might be right about DIM. Ainterol/PM and lignans both have the same attributes of DIM when it comes to favoring the 2-OH hydroxylation of estrogen over 16-OH. Plus, both are natural products, so it stands to reason that they would work more effectively than lignans. Not to mention that both have additional attributes over and above the hydroxylation aspect. I'm thinking lignans and PM may be enough.

You guys are making me contemplate not taking DIM.

I guess I will stop for a month or so and get my blood work done to see if it is truly needed.

sublime9 wrote:You guys are making me contemplate not taking DIM.

I guess I will stop for a month or so and get my blood work done to see if it is truly needed.

I think a urine test might actually be what you need. That is the way to identify the ration of 2-OH/16-OH metabolites. If DIM is working for you, then stick with it. I just happen to believe that it is rendered unnecessary by consumption of lignans and PM, both of which have the same effect as DIM on the hydroxylation pathways.

Probably the last 6-months I've been taking MACA, Bio-DIM and of course 7-HMR. It won't hurt at all. The primary reason is that it's pretty cheap.

Wine polyphenols seem to work really well for me. Dropping wine actually made me take a hit in the department that we associate with testesterone. Currently, I am dosing on a Nature's Way reservatrol product. Not bad, but not great: I'm taking about 12 a day. One thing is for certain: I went through a bottle of Jarrow grape seed polyphenols which had zero effect, so a simple grape seed extract does not suffice. I still have not settled on a product.

http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/92/1/71

Also, I had my teeth cleaned today and the dental hygienist, whom i see regularly, asked me if i had been swishing soda around my mouth, so my teeth definitely took a hit from drinking wine.

IH--

With Ainterol's product so cheap (bout 30 with S&H for 5-month supply), why not jump on the bandwagon?

nidhogge - Oh, I'm definitely sold on the Ainterol version. Assuming enough of us hop aboard and do as well as the preliminary feedback received so far, this could totally replace 7-HMR.

I'm aboard: I ordered a bottle yesterday off ebay.

I ordered my first bottle Monday, expecting it anytime and I'm excited about it.

I'm aboard as well. Ordered some on Tuesday for myself and my GF who, as I mentioned to Nid, lost the "girls" when she slimmed up this summer. If this turns us all into bald trannies, we will come find you, Nid, with torches and pitchforks.

Well, EIC hit the nail on the head...I'm gonna come clean.

PM has turned me into a bald tranny, and I just want company.

Lol.

Good to hear IH, and ya--it may very well replace it!