PH Phytogen vs. ainterol P. Mirifica

EIC - In some respects they do, but it seems one may benefit over the other. It seems that PM Kudzu would be the most effective, because of the shear strength. It's reported to be a 1000 times stronger than soy isoflavones, but without the downside.

7-HMR in part seems to prevent harmful estrogens from getting their way, while providing weaker estrogenic activity, while DIM allows a better metabolization of harmful estrogens and increases the good ones.

CausticSymmetry wrote:EIC - In some respects they do, but it seems one may benefit over the other. It seems that PM Kudzu would be the most effective, because of the shear strength. It's reported to be a 1000 times stronger than soy isoflavones, but without the downside.

7-HMR in part seems to prevent harmful estrogens from getting their way, while providing weaker estrogenic activity, while DIM allows a better metabolization of harmful estrogens and increases the good ones.

Hmmmm If 7-HMR lignans depend largely on the quality of the users gut bacteria, perhaps PM would be a better recommendation?

Joejoebaggins - Yes, I believe so.

CausticSymmetry wrote:Joejoebaggins - Yes, I believe so.

This is making me want to give PM a go. IH, you recommend the Solgar, twice a day?

This is the same forumla that Prague found success with, isn't it? Anyone have more reading material on it that doesn't have to do with women's breasts? :p

Joejoebaggins - It's quite unlikely to cause the breast thing, and for a women it will only firm them.

Prague was using non-Thai Kudzu, which I have gave a good trial run last year. However, the Thai or PM version is much different and that's the one to go for.

Either Nidhogge's source or the Solgar, either way it's worth a shot.

Very important to use Thai Kudzu Root to get the effects that we desire.

I've been using the Ainterol version for a few months, and no firm breasts for me. Stronger hair follicles though and less fall-out!

Dude! I just checked out Ainterol's PM on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/PUERARIA-MIRIFICA-500-PURE-Capsule-Real-500mg-Power_W0QQitemZ110281346283QQihZ001QQcategoryZ67590QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

A 5-month supply for $25? That's like $5 a month! Combined with $8 per month for 7-HMR, that is just $13 a month for all your phytoestrogen needs. There is no excuse now!

That's quite a deal!

That's another thing--since you're ordering straight from Thailand rather than through an American company (Solgar) that has to obtain the product from Thailand, you get the country's rate for it--dirt-cheap.

lol, what did you do with the free breast spray?

j87x wrote:lol, what did you do with the free breast spray?

Put it to work on your lady friends! Duh!

I like a few other posters have begun to use PM. I started with PM Solgar, and then shifted to Ainterols PM.
I have been using the products for about 6 weeks total, so its too early to look for real results. However, I can tell you that my overall skin condition has improved and I have noticed a reduction or elimination of areas of redness along my temple hairline when taking the higher dose Ainterol product vs Solgar. (I have had thinning in those areas of redness needless to say).
My view of this, is that I run high estradiol in my system, and the PM is either displacing the estradiol or reducing it as needed(balance). I assume the redness represents inflammation to some degree, I have no other obvious scalp problems nor redness anywhere else. Also, fwiw, a week ago I dropped 7HMR from regimen after over a year+ on it based on it has not seemingly done anything for me, and I suspect actually it may have had a slightly adverse effect at my hair line.

For those that use the Ainterol product or will be, I thought I would post a letter from Ainterol describing the actual quantity and contents of their PM capsules. The contents of their capsules are not printed on them.

Anterols listed here below:

*******************

"PM is harvested basicly all year long. During this time of the year is the most harvested time when all other fruits are ready.

Collecting PM root is a constant development area. Some lets PM root to grow too large and potency is less (up to ground properties).

All our powders are within these values.

Miroestrol is between 40.53-42.10mg/100gm (with HPLC method).

Daidzin 6.85-8.10mg/100gm (with HPLC method).

Daidzein 4.95-5.80mg/100gm (with HPLC method).

Genistin 1.19-1.30mg/100gm (with HPLC method).



Harvesting methods are really kept in secret by every manufacturer. This is due high loss of PM root by many manufacturers.

PM root is full of mould very quick after harvesting and production methods to collect correct way is kept in secrecy.

We have so called organic plantation PM root which growth is well controlled to get maximum properties. We also have some part of wild PM root which is usually made to extract. Everything which goes around Pueraria Mirifica "world" is a well kept secret. Especially Production and laboratory methods.


Right now we are the first one to offer Pueraria Mirifica Powder and Extract straight to public. It's so well kept inside Thailand and hard to get abroad (except readymade product). Capsules what people are buying on eBay and around the world are filled up with weak herbs like ginger, safflower, black pepper (so called "tropical herbs"). Our products are pure.

We as a foreign owned company in Thailand (Finnish-German) many been trying to get our manufacturing methods ever since 2002 when we started. Competition on this Product is very hard. Therefore we also keep lots of info on our side. All those who wish to conduct more laboratory tests on their own (independent laboratory) we recommend to do.

Here's a shortlist what we check by every batch.

Microorganism, pestiside test, nutritional, heavy metals, chromene (isoflavonoid derivatives HPLC)


-Lead (Pb) based on AOAC(2000)999.11

-Mercury (Hg) based on modified AOAC(2000)971.21

-Arsenic (As) based on modified AOAC(2000)986.15

-constant follow up to Miroestrol,Daidzin, Genistin, Daidzein (content per 100gm)

-Aldrin, dieldrin, heptachlor, heptachlor epoxide, DDT, BHC, Endrin, Lindane


The other tests are based on Atomic Absorption laboratory methods.

(Iron, Zinc, Copper, Calcium, Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium, Cadmium etc.).



All over this we have our own developed checking methods which we don't reveal while methods are non-patented.

Those methods are mainly to speed up production to collect root on time with strongest potency".


Regards,

Tapio

AINTEROL

***********************

2560 - Mega thanks for that info.

Also that's a very respectable level of Miroestrol.

Dr. Tapio is the man btw, he's the one that I communicated with. He gave me all the info. I needed on how to properly formulate as well...totally unrelated to their product-line. Ainterol's a class act indeed.

2560--
I got suspicious about 7-HMR recently as well; seems like my experience mimics yours quite a bit.

Are you the same 2560 from regrowth who recommended the lasermax 50 to me?

Gibson wrote:2560--
I got suspicious about 7-HMR recently as well; seems like my experience mimics yours quite a bit.

Are you the same 2560 from regrowth who recommended the lasermax 50 to me?

Gibson, yes 7HMR while a worthy addition to ones regimen, at least in some cases leads to unpredictable
reactions. I do believe I am one of them. I did seemingly ok with Flax originally but upgraded to 7HMR
for improved efficacy, but began to have issues at the temples which were previously stablized. Go Figure ~

As far as regrowth.com I am a member there, listed as 2560 too, but I was not the one who recommended
lasermax 50 to you. Personally I have considered laser helmet from Nid or OMG to thicken my rather thin
shaft regrowth that has occured at my temples.

I guess I had you mixed up with someone else.

Thanks for clarifying that though.

NID OR CS,

ANY THOUGHTS ON WHETHER PM (AINTEROL) STRENGTH WOULD INTERFERE WITH THYROID
(SUBCLINCAL HYPOTHYROIDISM) SIMILAR TO WHAT EXCESS STEROIDAL ESTROGENS OR
EXCESS SOY CAUSES ?? I TAKE AMOUR THYROID 1 1/2 GRAINS AND WONDER WITH THE LARGE
DOSES IN ANTEROL PM @2X500MG PER DAY WOULD CAUSE ISSUES ?

THANKS FOR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER.

Nah 2560, and in fact, I'd drop the Thyroid after a month of loading up on Iodine, and then taper the Iodine down to 12.5mg or so a day.

nidhogge wrote:Nah 2560, and in fact, I'd drop the Thyroid after a month of loading up on Iodine, and then taper the Iodine down to 12.5mg or so a day.

Thanks for your response. I do take Iodoral 12.5mg (some days) until I could do a Iodine defeciency test - just got a test kit from Vitamin Research Products. I would like to get off of the Amour. Also, CS had said in another post that people on thyoid medications defintely have an increased need for iodine apparently. Meanwhile I worry if the Genstein, Daizden, etc along with the miroestrol in the PM could block to some degree cell receptor sites for T-3. I know heavy soy users can wind up with sub clincal hypothroidism.

nidhogge wrote:Nah 2560, and in fact, I'd drop the Thyroid after a month of loading up on Iodine, and then taper the Iodine down to 12.5mg or so a day.

Ummmm.... DON'T DO THAT.

There could be many other factors depressing thyroid besides iodine. I'm lucky to have gotten off Armour, but you can't be too willy nilly about it.

2560--

PM is nothing like Soy. No worries there.

Joejoe--

Iodine resolves over 90% of Thyroid issues. If the thyroid issue persists, can always get back on the stuff. Not really a life-or-death decision, and certainly not a binding one.

Nid and JoeJoe, thank you for your thoughts on thyroid, Iodine and PM. I will proceed cautiously.
From my experience, thyroid balance and levels can be a tricky thing to balance.

ON a seperate note for CS and Nid and others considering PM, its appears that PM
is very similar to estradiol, not estriol, for what its worth. I guess in the end if it is
effective for our use without sides, thats all that counts.

See link below for PM chemical structure:

http://www.stherb.com/index.php?page=pm_composition

Also fwiw the ST Herb site on another page shows the composition and quanity
of their pure PM to be very similar to Anterols which I guess can be taken a s reassuring
about Anterols product.

Last I have been using Anterols PM 2x500mg for 6+ weeks, no sides thus far, and probably to soon
for any theraputic effects except good skin, and I believe reduced speed of beard growth.

That chart showing the chemical structures did not list the one for estriol, which can be seen here:

http://www.3dchem.com/molecules.asp?ID=242

As stated, deoxymiroestrol is easily oxidized to miroestrol which is resembles estriol the most.

After about 6 months of this stuff I think we should have good indication of how this holds up on our hair.

CausticSymmetry wrote:That chart showing the chemical structures did not list the one for estriol, which can be seen here:

http://www.3dchem.com/molecules.asp?ID=242

As stated, deoxymiroestrol is easily oxidized to miroestrol which is resembles estriol the most.

After about 6 months of this stuff I think we should have good indication of how this holds up on our hair.

CS - Thank you for your analysis. Thats why I posted the St Herb link for your review. I thought it was strange
that they claimed it was similar to estradiol when most discussions have stated that is similar to estriol.

I was worried that it was too close to estradiol in actions and at the dosing Anterol suggests(2X500),
this could be worrisome even though posts thus far seem positive or ok.