Low copper diet induces insulin resistance in rodents.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.20380/abstract

Low copper diet induces insulin resistance in rodents. Scientists conclude: Low copper plays a "critical role in diminished GSIS [glucose induced insulin release]".

The mechanism behind the pro-diabetic effects is a downregulation of the copper-dependent islet-COX activity and subsequent pancreatic-low-grade inflammation. Combine that with the copper consuming effects of fructose and you have quite a neat explanation for the results of high fructose feeding studies.

This is by the way exactly what Ming Song et al. conclude based on another recently conducted experiment (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.20380/abstract): "[M]modest fructose consumption can impair copper status and lead to hepatic iron overload, which in turn, may lead to liver injury and fatty liver in marginal copper deficient rats. This study provides important information on dietary fructose and copper interaction, suggesting that dietary fructose induced low copper availability might be an important mechanism underlying fructose induced fatty liver."



I suffered extreme hair loss from copper deficiency along with wrinkling of face and loss of color. I also suffered from extreme brain fog and problems concentrating. Make sure u have ur copper levels in balance with zinc and dont oversuppplement zinc without copper. Most physical symtpms reverse instantly while cognitive symptoms took a few weeks of improvement.

Apart from its hair promoting effect from regulating insulin, it is also a prime factor in making hemoglobin, i had hemoglobin deficiency due to low copper. It upsets me how zinc is heavily promoted here while copper is public enemy number 1. It is also a much stronger dht inhibitor than propecia.

Copper ion in the skin is more effective in inhibiting the type 1 form which is primarily producing the DHT that damages follicles and can be administered locally to the skin. Sugimoto et al (Sugimito 1995) found that copper ion is a potent inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase, inhibiting both types of 5-alpha reductase (both type 1 and type 2) that produce DHT and is the only metal to do so. Copper ion inhibits (50% reduction in activity) type 1 alpha reductase at 1.9 micromolar (0.12 micrograms copper ion per milliliter) and type 2 alpha reductase at 19.2 microM (1.2 micrograms copper ion per milliliter). No other metal has these effects.

I currently take copper along with zinc

In regards to the inhibiting effect, it has to be applied to the skin/ doesn't work when taken orally?

theseeker86 wrote:I currently take copper along with zinc

In regards to the inhibiting effect, it has to be applied to the skin/ doesn't work when taken orally?

No it does work through regulating ur tsh as it makes ur less hyperthyroid. Hyper's are known to have high zinc low copper and very high DHT. My face has stopped being so oily and im less horny(not a drawback, i had excessive libido) and significantly much better hair. These are very few of the advantages i saw. Please be aware though that if u are already estrogen dominant due to low vitamin d, copper will make i worse for u. U need to up ur vitamin d levels before u supplement copper, that was opposite of what i did before and it wasnt wise from me as i went hypo for a while.

YAER wrote:

theseeker86 wrote:I currently take copper along with zinc

In regards to the inhibiting effect, it has to be applied to the skin/ doesn't work when taken orally?

No it does work through regulating ur tsh as it makes ur less hyperthyroid. Hyper's are known to have high zinc low copper and very high DHT. My face has stopped being so oily and im less horny(not a drawback, i had excessive libido) and significantly much better hair. These are very few of the advantages i saw. Please be aware though that if u are already estrogen dominant due to low vitamin d, copper will make i worse for u. U need to up ur vitamin d levels before u supplement copper, that was opposite of what i did before and it wasnt wise from me as i went hypo for a while.

For how long do you have to take vitamin D before taking copper ? Would you reckon 5,000 IU/day ? More ?

YAER - I will vouch for your info here. A lot of people throw some resistance when I tell them to bone up on some copper. Not a lot, but some is necessary. They are worried of course, because we constantly hear about copper toxicity, however, it is also occurring with a deficiency. One is bio-available and the other is not--just causes problems.

I've seen an emergent increase of NAFLD in people in the last decade. This is related to copper in part.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22469071

The thing about zinc is, we need it--but, beyond 15 milligrams on a long-term basis, taking doses of 25, 50, etc over the long haul can cause problems.

YAER wrote:



I suffered extreme hair loss from copper deficiency along with wrinkling of face and loss of color. I also suffered from extreme brain fog and problems concentrating. Make sure u have ur copper levels in balance with zinc and dont oversuppplement zinc without copper. Most physical symtpms reverse instantly while cognitive symptoms took a few weeks of improvement.

Great post YAER thanks.

Was the loss of color in your face or hair?

Zinc Copper imbalance shows up alot in learning disabalities and other psychiatric maladies. However, from what I've read either too high or too low can cause the same symptoms....

How could you tell if you were low or high?

CausticSymmetry wrote:
The thing about zinc is, we need it--but, beyond 15 milligrams on a long-term basis, taking doses of 25, 50, etc over the long haul can cause problems.

All the good Zinc supplements I've seen on iherb are over 15 milligrams, looks like I might have to start splitting the actual tablets up soon.

I'm hyperthyroid and still waiting on the results to see if it's Graves disease. I already tested negative for TPO and TAA. Either way they will probably want to put me on anti-thyroid meds (I'm not going to destroy my thyroid with radiation even if they want me to). I noticed that a lot of multivitamins and supplements have zinc and no copper. I might have been overdoing it on the zinc and iodine (I wasn't taking a ton of iodine but more than the average person). What's the best way to test for a zinc-copper imbalance or too much iodine? Serum levels? Spectracell? Iodine urine test? Beyond that I'm going to get on a paleo diet with a little safe starch (basically the perfect health diet) and try to cut out the starch over time. I've been eating junk and not exercising lately. If it's Graves is there anything I can do or do I just have to get on the drugs for life? My doctor takes a holistic approach and he already recommended the diet changes but referred me to an endocrinologist to find out what is really going on.

Yes, I was a copper deficient. So I have added a 80-90% dark chocolate to my diet and my dandruff practically disapeared.

Supposedly copper is implicated in hyperthyroidism in some way or the other. I would cut out the zinc and iodine for a while and see if you stabilize.

theseeker86 wrote:

CausticSymmetry wrote:
The thing about zinc is, we need it--but, beyond 15 milligrams on a long-term basis, taking doses of 25, 50, etc over the long haul can cause problems.

All the good Zinc supplements I've seen on iherb are over 15 milligrams, looks like I might have to start splitting the actual tablets up soon.

I think you can take it weekly. Paul Jaminet recommends 50 mg per week (7 mg per day). He stresses the copper-zinc balance as well.

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/recommended-supplements/

Yes i agree, cut out zinc completely, add 4-6 mg of copper daily and monitor urself...anways, serum copper is pretty accurate..Most people see a significant improvement from hyperthyridism using copper alone, do not treat ur thyroid with foreign substances, use ones that are native to the body...Thyroid is mostly zinc/copper/iodine/selenium related, if u use iodised salt then there is absolutely no need to supplement and its harmful to overdo it

YAER wrote:Yes i agree, cut out zinc completely, add 4-6 mg of copper daily and monitor urself...anways, serum copper is pretty accurate..Most people see a significant improvement from hyperthyridism using copper alone, do not treat ur thyroid with foreign substances, use ones that are native to the body...Thyroid is mostly zinc/copper/iodine/selenium related, if u use iodised salt then there is absolutely no need to supplement and its harmful to overdo it

Yeah, I might have been overdoing it on the selenium too. When companies decide to add minerals or create a multivitamin it seems like they just see a study that shows copper causes alzheimers or something and they leave it out. They see another study that shows zinc and selenium are good and add in more than you need and if you are taking a lot of supplements and nutritional products it can get out of balance quickly.

http://www.iherb.com/MegaFood-DailyFoods-One-Daily-Iron-Free-90-Tablets/4014?at=hil335

33% zinc, 36% selenium and 5% copper. Why not just go 33,33,33? I'm guessing a lot of vitamins are like this.

I'm not saying this is my problem but who knows. If I test negative for TSI then I'll get some zinc, copper, iodine and selenium tests I guess along with improving my diet and exercising.

This is what I've been using or a while. A zinc/copper balance supplement.

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Zinc-Balance-100-Capsules/278

Please don't throw the baby out with the bath water though and eliminate zinc. People are different.

Zinc in amounts higher than 15 mg will cause diminishing returns long term.

If you want a temporary boost in copper to catch up I usually suggest this stuff:

http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Copper-Sebacate-22-mg-120-Tablets/1155

I'm not sure I'd remove zinc entirely either. That said, I doubt it would be harmful if your diet was zinc-sufficient, but many people aren't getting enough. Zinc is vital.

I'd probably go the route of just bumping up copper short term and then returning to a balance, aiming for around 1-2 mg copper for every 15 mg zinc.

I personally like to go a bit higher than recommended on zinc. As long as you are balancing it, there shouldn't be a problem.

CausticSymmetry wrote:
The thing about zinc is, we need it--but, beyond 15 milligrams on a long-term basis, taking doses of 25, 50, etc over the long haul can cause problems.

Hey CS

My zinc test was 74,3 (range 72,6 - 127 mg/ml) so i'm on 50mg zinc picolinate every morning and 3mg copper every night. For how long is it safe to staying on 50mg zinc?
Actually i was thinking to boost zinc more, by adding and this kind of zinc supplement with my zinc picolinate

http://www.iherb.com/New-Chapter-Organics-Zinc-Food-Complex-60-Tablets/67#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=New%20Chapter%2C%20Organics%2C%20Zinc%20Food%20Complex&rc=489&sr=null&ic=1

By contacting with New chapter, they said that their product contain 15 mg elemental zinc.

TNT - Not that long. I usually use a zinc sulfate test to figure out if there's sufficiency. Would go to 15 mg real quick.

CausticSymmetry wrote:TNT - Not that long. I usually use a zinc sulfate test to figure out if there's sufficiency. Would go to 15 mg real quick.

So, because i'm low in zinc, is it wise to stay at 50 mg for 2 months and then down regulate it at 15mg?

I got my TSI test back and it's only 28% (range is less than 139%) so it doesn't look like I have Graves. I am hyperthyroid so I guess it's caused by diet, stress, and lack of exercise. I'm still going to go to this endocrinologist and show him just my hyperthyroid test, not the TSI test, to see what he thinks. I'm going to cut out all supplements for awhile and eat a lot healthier. I might think about taking some copper too but I'd like to get it tested to see what the level is. I'll probably just eat some high copper foods. I wasn't taking a ridiculous amount of iodine, zinc or selenium and definitely not consistently so I don't know what is going on. I don't really have the obvious hyperthyroid symptoms so people should be careful and get some labwork beyond the standard blood tests doctors order. I could have gone into an average doctor and gotten a check up and they would have never caught this. You really have to take responsibility for your own health I guess. Thank god the internet allows for this exchange of information and too bad so many out there just take the advice of their doctor who just wants to push patentable chemicals.

CausticSymmetry wrote:This is what I've been using or a while. A zinc/copper balance supplement.

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Zinc-Balance-100-Capsules/278

How good is this form of zinc compared to the others in l optizinc etc?

-edit- I think they are the same, silly me.

YAER, just wanted to say thanks for your posts on copper. i know you always ask me if i started taking copper or not. i started taking copper, but honestly did not know if it was helping or not. i started taking dessicated liver and then i saw one your posts about taking liver in replacement of copper. anyway, wanted to let you know since i've started taking dessicated liver, my face got a lot of color in it. before, very pale and white.. and now my face has A LOT color in it. it could be the good copper and zinc ratio, honestly i don't know, but i was taking the pill form, but don't know what the deal was it wasn't doing it. the dessicated liver seems to be best for me. i def. wasn't getting enough copper or zinc i believe as i'm pretty super stricto n my diet on certain things, so it's good i'm doing something that's covering more fronts. i'm going to start donating blood eveyry 56 days as this is the max you can donate blood.. i'm going to go on monday to avoid high iron levels. thanks man. i'm still working on fin issues.. but i'm figuring out the puzzle.. it's all insulin resistance. along with the right stuff in dessicated liver fueling me.. i'm making good progress on that front. cheers bro.

sanderson wrote:YAER, just wanted to say thanks for your posts on copper. i know you always ask me if i started taking copper or not. i started taking copper, but honestly did not know if it was helping or not. i started taking dessicated liver and then i saw one your posts about taking liver in replacement of copper. anyway, wanted to let you know since i've started taking dessicated liver, my face got a lot of color in it. before, very pale and white.. and now my face has A LOT color in it. it could be the good copper and zinc ratio, honestly i don't know, but i was taking the pill form, but don't know what the deal was it wasn't doing it. the dessicated liver seems to be best for me. i def. wasn't getting enough copper or zinc i believe as i'm pretty super stricto n my diet on certain things, so it's good i'm doing something that's covering more fronts. i'm going to start donating blood eveyry 56 days as this is the max you can donate blood.. i'm going to go on monday to avoid high iron levels. thanks man. i'm still working on fin issues.. but i'm figuring out the puzzle.. it's all insulin resistance. along with the right stuff in dessicated liver fueling me.. i'm making good progress on that front. cheers bro.

anytime man, i dont think u would need to donate as when i started supplementing copper i had a ferritin level of 56 if i remember, 2 weeks later on copper supplements it dropped down to 35 as it got metabolized to Red blood cells and hemoglobin... I then started adding more iron and now i have perfect hemoglobin...

The ferritin levels dropped down to raise Serum iron levels. High ferritin levels accompanied by low iron levels is dangerous and is a symptoms of either copper or b12 deficiency. Im happy for u man.

My copper result taken in last August is as follows:

Code:

(S) Copper          14.8           umol/L               12.2.-25.1

Anyone want to chime in on this? Should it be higher?