Please help me workout this paranoia/OCD hair damage related thought!

Hey guys.

So Ive posted this before, but it still seems to be getting to me. I just need some input to knock some sense into me here, cuz this thought is really taking me for spin.

I used my dermaroller back on sept 25th 1 time. It is a 1.5 mm roller. Little bit of blood drawn. Next day I brushed semi vigorously with my BB brush. After that I read on here I should give it some time to heal, not brush the day after. So I waited 3-4 days, which I thought would be enough, and I brushed again. That day I read that normal healing after dermarolling takes 14 days. At that point I got scared that I might have scarred my temple/hairline follicles. So at this point I waited probably another 10-12 days before brushing again, at which point I thought I would be good to go. But the feeling crept up on me again that I should give it more time, and that I had brushed too soon. At this point I start thinking that Im being excessive so I start brushing another 5 days or so in. So now my brain is telling me to wait another 14 days, which Im sure is rather nuts, but I cant shake this feeling that I need to wait the FULL 14 days. And that I couldve permanently damaged my follicles (the most troubling thought).

Meanwhile, I seem to be losing the results I got from brushing, which I felt were good over 4 months, and Im crazily convincing myself that Ive done permanent damage from not waiting long enough.

Is there any merit at all to my thinking? This is just me being completely paranoid and OCD about it correct? And I could just go back to BB brushing, no problem right?  (sorry for the draining quality of this post, but some outside input would be immensely helpful here)

Thanks!

quick chime in from a mentally sound person?

Sizzlinghairs - to be honest, your fear is effecting your follicles more than the roll / brush. Dude, you seriously need to take a deep breath and just let it go, there's no way you would've permanently damaged your follicles by doing this - the human body is far more resilient than that (by a loooooong way) :-)

All the best brother!

sizzlinghairs wrote:Hey guys.

So Ive posted this before, but it still seems to be getting to me. I just need some input to knock some sense into me here, cuz this thought is really taking me for spin.

I used my dermaroller back on sept 25th 1 time. It is a 1.5 mm roller. Little bit of blood drawn. Next day I brushed semi vigorously with my BB brush. After that I read on here I should give it some time to heal, not brush the day after. So I waited 3-4 days, which I thought would be enough, and I brushed again. That day I read that normal healing after dermarolling takes 14 days. At that point I got scared that I might have scarred my temple/hairline follicles. So at this point I waited probably another 10-12 days before brushing again, at which point I thought I would be good to go. But the feeling crept up on me again that I should give it more time, and that I had brushed too soon. At this point I start thinking that Im being excessive so I start brushing another 5 days or so in. So now my brain is telling me to wait another 14 days, which Im sure is rather nuts, but I cant shake this feeling that I need to wait the FULL 14 days. And that I couldve permanently damaged my follicles (the most troubling thought).

Meanwhile, I seem to be losing the results I got from brushing, which I felt were good over 4 months, and Im crazily convincing myself that Ive done permanent damage from not waiting long enough.

Is there any merit at all to my thinking? This is just me being completely paranoid and OCD about it correct? And I could just go back to BB brushing, no problem right?  (sorry for the draining quality of this post, but some outside input would be immensely helpful here)

Thanks!

If you've experienced radical shedding, and if the quality of hair wasn't the best, it was the hair you were about to lose anyway. Despite trying some wounding methods myself, i don't think it's worth doing for everybody. Everybody heals with different rates and should proceed the methods differently based on how he can repair the wounds or handle inflammation. This strongly goes hand in hands with internal battle ruled by status of particular nutrients, aminos, vitamins, hormones, etc. Before one goes crazy about manuals, steps to be done are also with internal battle - in order to improve of how one can handle inflammation. Would say that stimulation with LLLT and violet ray would work better, anyway.

One thing to keep in mind is that you are using relatively longer gauge needles. I've seen them in ranges of .5 mm to 2.5 mm. So what becomes important is the thickness of the skin.

You've basically got three layers that are important. The epidermis, then the dermis, then the subcutaneous fat. The majority of the hair bulb lies in the deeper subcutaneous fat, so the more regenerative parts are there. I would imagine that too much of an insult to this region would probably result in scarring if you are overdoing it.

The thickness of the skin varies throughout the body. It can be as little as 1 mm (or a little more) on the eyelid and 3 mm on the palms and even a bit more on the soles of the feet. If you are drawing blood, it is probably worth it to assume you are hitting subcutaneous tissue, which is where the cutaneous blood vessels lie, but they anastomose too and send smaller capillaries up into the shallow layers so that may be what you are hitting, especially if the bleeding is only sporadic and in certain spots (i.e. not uniform bleeding over the entire surface you're needling).

Overall, the deeper the puncture, the longer I'd wait between applications. At 1.5 mm I would probably give yourself around 10 days at least. If you were to switch to a smaller gauge, perhaps 1mm, once weekly would be sufficient. As far as effectiveness at these different needle lengths, .5 mm seems to be effective for increasing topical absorption, while anything .75 mm and up can be effective for breaking up scar tissue. I'd bump down your needle length and shoot for once weekly. Don't obsess over the interval. Give yourself a set day to do it and just follow your schedule. Obviously if you are including brushing and the tissue is still irritated, skip the needling or vice versa. I wouldn't overdo it with multiple techniques. One stimulus should be sufficient. If you're going to brush, brush that day. If you're going to needle, needle. Its a mistake to think "more is better" when it comes to wounding.

And its already been mentioned, but your stress over this is probably greater than the benefit you are getting. Its like a 1 step forward, 2 steps back situation. You shouldn't be doing anything thats going to cause you stress over the procedure itself. It just isn't worth it. Set up a schedule, follow it, don't think. Well, only think insofar as you should be aware of how your skin is feeling. Other than that just follow your schedule and don't obsess over whether you are doing it down to the exact second of the exact minute of the 14th day. Don't go looking in the mirror every hour of every day. Give yourself a date. I'm going to observe progress on this day. Then do that again 2-3 weeks afterward. Assess whether its working for you, but give yourself enough time to really make a sound judgment. If its not working, drop it.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

ASL, I think I'm just going to stick to brushing right now. Less stress. Based on my description, you think its ok to start brushing again? I needled over a month ago so thats a huge amount of time, but my concern was the 3 intermittent brushings..

Thanks

Sizzling,

I'm not too experienced with brushing. Its not my cup of tea. So it might be better to get input on brushing from some other folks, but my opinion would be that you'd be fine to begin again. Without knowing the kind of brush you are using, the intensity you are going, and being able to actually observe your scalp, let alone feel what you're feeling afterward and during the healing process, its kind of impossible to judge as an outsider. Honestly, I think its something you've got to go with your gut on. If you are experiencing irritation or soreness, hold off. Err on the side of healing rather than instigating, it will always work out better. At any rate, you can always just observe. If you are seeing a dramatic decline in hair quality, count, texture changes to the skin on the scalp, take a good long break. Without knowing what the progress of brushing should look like though, I don't know what kind of changes you'll expect to see, so thats' where some of the seasoned guys will help.

try castor oil.

Thanks for the replies. To be honest, I'm not any more sore when I brush than I used to be. I don't see any wounds or scarring or impaired skin integrity at all, it's all just theory about what could be happening running around in my head. Fact is, I needles 1 full month ago, that's it, with 3-4 brushing sessions in between. The only thing in paranoid about is I don't think I got in the FULL 14 days healing, but in total my scalp has had a freakin months break from needling.

So no signs and symptoms, just me being afraid I didn't give my scalp 14 complete days off after 1 measly needling session...

It's OCD. Trying to get reassurance is going to make it worse. Move on.

Yes, I know, this is true

Well anyways, wanted to bring up one final thing in relation. There is a small small area along my temples which I started watching after needling to assess results, and that particular area has not produced any hair since. But it doesnt look scarred or anything. Just bare (cant tell if theres even any tiny small blond vellous, which would tell me there is some life there). Thats kind of the trigger of my rumination about all this, that small area. Maybe its always been like that, maybe its because I brushed too soon after needling and damaged the follicles. Thats my thought process.

Anyways, I tend to think its always been like that, and its just a very stubborn area that I happened upon when I started to obsess about this whole thing. OR (damn mind) it could be a 1% chance its an area of damaged follicles and I need to wait for further healing. But 1 months time already seems overkill on that. Uhg, thats the thing, there is always some apparent "evidence" that tries to throw me for a loop.

Hate to belabor this topic, but any thoughts on my last observation above? That patch Im talking about that is the core of my continued rumination? Always like that or not, that is the question...