Evidence for effectiveness of MSM

Hi all,

I have the utmost respect for Immortalhair, and as such I am following his supplement regimen pretty much to a T (I take about 90% of what he recommends). However, the one supplement that I am having a hard time swallowing (pun intended) is MSM.

Basically in researching MSM it seems to me that the evidence is pretty flimsy at best and I'm wondering if maybe I am missing something. I am more than willing to give MSM a shot, but considering how absolutely NASTY MSM powder tastes, I would like to know that there is some research behind the stuff before I force the stuff down twice/day.

Thanks a billion.

Oh, and I did try searching but for some reason the search engine doesn't seem to be working (at least for me)

Good question. I just ordered some myself. Regarding the search feature, CS always recommends using the Google search.

The Liberator wrote:but considering how absolutely NASTY MSM powder tastes, I would like to know that there is some research behind the stuff before I  force the stuff down twice/day.

Firstly, why bother tasting it? Just put a minimal amount of water in a glass, add in the MSM crystals and throw it in! No need to actually taste it buddy!
If you for some unknown reason cannot resist tasting it, switch to capsules and take it from there..
http://www.iherb.com/MRM-MSM-1500-mg-160-Capsules/41346

 

It's a bit of long explanation...in fact will put up an article to explain it all in the near future.

If MSM is consumed via tablets or capsules, the bio-availability drops to 15%

This is unfortunately why the awful tasting stuff is best taken by powder.
Also it has to be devoid of the flow agents (mentioned on the link). The way to tell
is if the powder clumps (that's exactly what you want to see).

The best way to take this stuff is placing about a teaspoon (or more) on the tongue,
and allowing it to dissolve with minimal swirling, so that the bitter taste doesn't hit
the sides of the mouth.

Mixing it with water or juice will just make the taste worse than it is.

Once the powder dissolves on the tongue, most of the bitter taste dissipates.
And then the process of swallowing it will be a lot easier.

So with that out of the way, why take this horrible tasting powder?

Over the years I had always been a little conflicted about MSM. The research would say
one thing, but the results were often quite mixed in people--I didn't know why.

In some periods interacting with people in the natural supplement arena I would encounter
people who could go nuts about MSM...As for me, it never seemed to be much of any
major wow factor, and others were either hot or cold about it.

So part of the reason had to do with the fact that almost all MSM sources add anti-caking
agents, flow agents, things to prevent the clumping so that capsule/tablet machines would
not get clogged. The problem with that is not just bio-availability, it is that one of more
interesting features of MSM benefit would vanish with these flow agents being added.

That benefit is dissolving scar tissue. In the past, on this forum there have been some videos
and other postings about scar tissue reduction using it....the problem is that almost all types
of MSM sold contain the fillers that would prevent this from occurring.

One of the things that piqued my interest in this stuff stemmed from a study about Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate
and its ability to increase the viability of dermal papilla for hair growth. The rub was, it didn't work unless
DMSO or its derivative MSM were used.

Sometime later it appeared that maybe it was the carrier doing part of work. There is a good reason for this thought, because the soil supply of sulfur/sulphur is severely lacking. It's lacking because the NPK fertilizers interfere with this mineral uptake in the soil.

Adding insult to injury, when crops are sprayed with glyphosate (herbicide), the already deficient soil is further depleted.

Nutrition textbooks make the assumption that plants are abundant in this element...It's just not the case unless
you live in a few places in the world that are known for high sulfur content (such as Iceland) or other long-life span areas.

DMSO and MSM are both sulfur/sulphur compounds. DMSO is short for Dimethyl Sulfoxide. MSM stands for Methyl-sulfonyl-methane.

DMSO smells terrible and it's acts like a solvent in concentrations above 70%. If you don't want to smell like garlic, it's best avoided.

Thing is, there is considerable research on DMSO/sulfur carried out by Dr Stanley Jacob in the early 1960’s.

While the research is considerable, as mentioned most of the stuff sold today just doesn't work, because it is in capsules or tablets....even most of the powders are adulterated with flow agents.

Making matters worse, the FDA and it's usual 'wisdom' have contributed to its controversy. In the USA, it is available only on prescription, as the FDA had concerns in the mid-1960’s over some alleged side-effects. DMSO cannot be sold legally to the general public for health purposes. In my opinion is this the typical deception by this non-protective health agency. Drug companies hate competition.

DMSO itself is a powerful solvent. It is a versatile compound, and can be found in paint thinners and antifreeze. There is some concern that “industrial grade” DMSO, used by factories, is being purchased by individuals seeking the health benefits of DMSO. Industrial grade DMSO is about 99% pure, but is not approved for “medical” purposes. It is the only “legal” way that DMSO can be obtained by individual consumers.

People just get scared of these warning labels.

Anyway, the rationale for MSM powder without these additives mentioned above is
that along with selenium it acts as an oxygen transporter. It has been reported/observed
that prior to 1954 (the year petrochemical fertilizers were introduced to the soils), people's
blood were significant more oxygen rich. Instead of a bright glowing red color, the blood
of people typically appears more opaque.

When there is more oxygen, there is less opportunity for infection. When there is low sulfur/sulphur
there is a greater opportunity for AGE (advanced glycation end products). Greater potential
for inflammation.

Some people will experience benefits if taken in the non-recommended ways, such as caps/tabs, but
it will more of disappointment. Also the possibility of scar tissue reduction is far less likely, if not
close to impossible.

If any herx (Herxheimer reaction) is experienced, unless most cases that requires a reduction...in
this case, the body needs more to complete a toxin removal process. Under dosing is likely to
cause a detox effect...so in this case, take more if this occurs.

Very interesting Caustic, thanks. I've been meaning to ask: is there any evidence that using MSM as a topical can benefit the hair?

I've been taking large doses of MSM internally, but I've also been applying a high concentrate MSM / distilled water topical. However, I wonder if there's any use applying the topical, since I doubt whether it is influencing the papillae at all, which is where the life of the hair comes from.

Am I missing something? Could it be benefiting the follicles in some way, or do you reckon it's a waste of time?

It's certainly possible. I just cannot be sure...However, the best way to go about it is to avoid anything with it that could compromise its effectiveness, such as the flow agents.

I can say that I have had some good feedback on the internal approach (more energy, libido, etc.).

CausticSymmetry wrote:If MSM is consumed via tablets or capsules, the bio-availability drops to 15%

Would you have any bio number when used as a powder then? I'm thinking why it would decline significantly just because it is in a thin veg capsule? I worst case scenario, one could buy empty capsules and fill them manually with pure powder. No?

CausticSymmetry wrote:why take this horrible tasting powder?

I know this sounds mad, but before drinking place rolled paper (or something) inside your nostrils.
Or try UT for a week, then you will LOOOOOOOOOOOVE the taste of MSM ;-)


Some sources indicates that MSM definitely should be taken with vitamin C. Any comments on this?

Much higher absorption without tabs/caps...but more important than that is the it will do more stuff.
Dissolving scar tissue is far less likely to occur without powder administration.

Vitamin C will help in lower bio-available cases.

Thank you for the informative reply to the OP, CS.

I take sulfur in ionic form. I like it better then dealing with fillers, powders, etc.
It seems strange, but sulfur helps adrenal fatigue/copper toxic (biounavailable) individuals. Chrome as well, maybe even better.
IME hypoglycemia, adrenal fatigue/stress response has a lot to do with copper toxicity, and those two elements are doing a good job with both. Couldn't understand the connection between hair loss and adrenals before experiencing this.
I bet that is why CS and jdp are able to easily handle hair loss, they actually understand everything they are doing, most of us are just copying them hoping it will work for us as well.

Wow CS, thanks SO much for the thoughtful reply. I guess I will just hold my nose and take the stuff.

I actually tried taking it the way you recommended (putting it on my tongue and letting it dissolve) but I only got about half down before I quite literally almost threw up. So I think the only way I will be able to take the stuff is by mixing it with a large amount of water and drinking it througout the day. Hopefully it will be equally effective taken like that.

Thanks again!!

Another interesting beneficial effect from MSM supplementation....

MSM Enhances GH Signaling via the Jak2/STAT5b Pathway in Osteoblast-Like Cells and Osteoblast Differentiation through the Activation of STAT5b in MSCs
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0047477

I see that powdered MSM has been added to the IH regimen page. Given the relatively large quantities should we cycle or use short term and/or supplement with molybdenum?

turbojet wrote:I see that powdered MSM has been added to the IH regimen page. Given the relatively large quantities should we cycle or use short term and/or supplement with molybdenum?

I've been looking into this in closer depth...if the source of sulfur is pure, then it will not sacrifice molybdenum as originally thought. Dr. Jonathan Wright originally proposed this idea, however the metabolite pathway only applies to the homocysteine pathway...so the good news is no....it is not necessary to supplement with molybdenum in this case.

I finally found a way to take powdered MSM (the one that CS uses). Mix it with at least 3/4 gallon of water and drink throughout the day. I have found that if you stick your nose in the bottle and smell the water after you add MSM, it smells HORRIBLE. (typical rotten egg sulpher smell) but if you just drink it you don't taste or smell anything, even if you are breathing through your nose while drinking.

Actually it does make the water taste a tiny bit more bitter (for lack of a better descriptor) but you do not taste any sulpher and strange as it sounds, I have gotten to where I kind of like the slight taste that it imparts to the water (I've been doing this every day for about a week or so)

I tried adding 1.5 tablespoons to a half gallon and it was AWEFUL so really the only way to do it is to make sure you add it to at LEAST .75 gallons of water.

Organic MSM is available in BC in powdered form.

Just google it.

Alternatively walk the ocean beach, with crashing waves.

M

There's a lot of good info on MSM and DMSO here http://www.planetmsm.com/html/dmso_vs_msm.html Mentions Dr. Stanely Jacob. Worth a read.

can internal msm cause regrowth by itself? I see some fuzzies that I don't think were on my temples before if only I could turn them terminal.btw i have no prob putting near any amount of msm on my tongue then swigging down with water.

Anyone looked into this stuff? supposedly high absorption/bioavaiable. Also has sulforane:

http://shop.mercola.com/product/msm-with-organic-sulfur-complex-60-per-bottle,1083,0.htm

He uses optiMSM just like the other big brands. It probably has a lot of the problems that caustic has talked about. And with Mercola you know you are going to pay 2x what it's worth.


Check this out: http://www.organicsulfur-msm.ca/about_OS_MSM.html

CS,

would order MSM from iHerb, but I always get hit with the customs charges since I'm in Canada.

Would this stuff work? https://well.ca/products/st-francis-herb-farm-msm-powder_83904.html

It doesn't say anything about being organic though. Thanks.

helpmyhair1 wrote:CS,

would order MSM from iHerb, but I always get hit with the customs charges since I'm in Canada.

Would this stuff work? https://well.ca/products/st-francis-herb-farm-msm-powder_83904.html

It doesn't say anything about being organic though. Thanks.

All MSM is organic sulphur.

Well.ca is a good site (the free shipping with just spending $25 is great for Canada) but the supplements are expensive compared to the U.S.  If you were ever planning on ordering a lot of supplements I'd recommend Swanson's, the shipping is $10-15 dollars depending on the size of your order, but there are no surprises at the door.  They calculate the Canadian taxes so there is no customs and the delivery person just leaves the package at your door.  There are no brokerage fees or other stuff like that.

Swanson's has a deal on right now until tomorrow at midnight (CST), use the code NEWYEAR14 for 10% off products sitewide and another 5% on Swanson brand products.

CF wrote:

helpmyhair1 wrote:CS,

would order MSM from iHerb, but I always get hit with the customs charges since I'm in Canada.

Would this stuff work? https://well.ca/products/st-francis-herb-farm-msm-powder_83904.html

It doesn't say anything about being organic though. Thanks.

All MSM is organic sulphur.

Well.ca is a good site (the free shipping with just spending $25 is great for Canada) but the supplements are expensive compared to the U.S.  If you were ever planning on ordering a lot of supplements I'd recommend Swanson's, the shipping is $10-15 dollars depending on the size of your order, but there are no surprises at the door.  They calculate the Canadian taxes so there is no customs and the delivery person just leaves the package at your door.  There are no brokerage fees or other stuff like that.

Swanson's has a deal on right now until tomorrow at midnight (CST), use the code NEWYEAR14 for 10% off products sitewide and another 5% on Swanson brand products.

Thanks for the tip. I just ordered the same brand CS uses from Swanson!

CS,

For the brand of Organic Sulfur you specify on your regimen page, what dosage do you take?

Thanks!

It's on my link: http://www.immortalhair.org/mpbregimen.htm

Organic Sulfur to dissolve scar tissue/fibrosis and to increase oxygen
transport. Large amounts are necessary due to insufficient levels in the
soil (including organic). This is very bitter to the taste and it is necessary
to avoid tablets or capsules due to absorption (less than 15%) from binders,
flow agents, and excipients. Take one teaspoon per 100 pounds (45 kg) of
body weight. Place on the tongue, allow it to dissolve, then chase with
water or juice. Source