How much fruit is too much?

I eat fruit everyday, but I'm wondering if the sugars in fruit compare to granulated or refined sugar. Should we avoid it entirely, or do the benefits (minerals, vitamins, etc.) of fruit outweigh the negativity of natural sugar?

How much fruit a day should we be eating?

The question of how much carbohydrate really depends on your level of activity, and on your own personal metabolism. Some people naturally handle sugars better than others. For me personally, I usually shoot for about 45% of my total calories to be carbohydrate on a work day, and closer to 35% on a rest day. Alternatively you could aim to get AT LEAST your body weight in grams of carbs per day, whereas on a training day I'll shoot higher for up to 2 grams of carbs per pound of body weight. Obviously you get different values depending on which way you use, but they get it in the ball park.

I think fruit is probably the ideal carbohydrate source. Not only do you have natural antioxidants and fiber, but you also have other natural compounds that slow down the blood sugar spike. We are well adapted to consuming fruit. Besides fruit, about the only other sources of sugar I'll consume are either sucrose or rice.

But everything depends on your activity level. I aim to get around 60%-70% of may carbs in the hours after my workouts, which usually means most of my carb intake happens between 4:00 and 8:00 pm.

Some people are more sensitive to free fructose than others, and typically the safest fruits to eat are those that have a more balanced glucose-to-fructose ratio. A ratio of 1 or higher is ideal.

Well, I take martial arts three times a week and rock climb four times a week, but continue to have ongoing hair loss issues. My diet is great and I have no fat on my body. My metabolism is through the roof and I stay hydrated throughout the day. I am beyond confused as to why I'm losing my hair. I honestly think it's the way I breathe or stress.

I think fruit has one additional advantage, it is helpful in maintaining good gut flora because of the fibres and sugars. That's why I always prefer whole fruits to juices, unless the circumstances are special. As to how much is enough, one would do well to learn to listen to one's body.

Growdamnit wrote:Well, I take martial arts three times a week and rock climb four times a week, but continue to have ongoing hair loss issues. My diet is great and I have no fat on my body. My metabolism is through the roof and I stay hydrated throughout the day. I am beyond confused as to why I'm losing my hair. I honestly think it's the way I breathe or stress.

I think anthonyspencer54 nailed this topic pretty good. Glad to see some good responses on these sort of questions.

Thinking back just a few years ago, the question would have been met with quite a mix of answers.

Growdamnit - You're probably burning (metabolic furnace on high, a consideration even before the heat theory, which I think is quite valid). If you normalize the rate of oxidation and also figure a way to temper the body heat in addition to that...could changes things for you.

Well, I take martial arts three times a week and rock climb four times a week, but continue to have ongoing hair loss issues

You wear a helmet when you rock climb? If so it may be trapping body heat. When I wore a baseball cap and went on long and fast bike rides, my hairline took a major beating because the cap not only trapped heat, it prevented surrounding air from cooling the scalp.

But I'm not suggesting you stop wearing a safety helmet or give up something you love.

Try one of those cooling gels that one can place inside the helmet.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I don't wear a helmet when I climb. My diet is damn near perfect and I can't quite figure out where to go next. I've been taking cilantro-lime shots to help with detoxing metals. I honestly think it is stress at this point. Unfortunately, the slow and gradual loss over 11 months of brushing has been stressing me out more and more. I have to find some way not to care about it which is MUCH easier said than done. I try to be mindful of my breath and breathe from my diaphragm, but my mind eventually wanders to another topic and I lose the mindfulness of my breath. My shoulders then raise and my breath becomes much more shallow.

Eat as much as you like.

Human cells need only Sun and Oxygen to function properly.
Fruits are blood cleanser,cause they need ZERO DIGESTION.

If you are a bit into breatherianism and fruitarianism and with some common sense
you wont be afraid of human food.

Humans cant digest meat.
Humans cant digest vegetables with big fibers.
Humans cant digest dairy (inorganic calcium).

Humans CAN digest ripe fruits like a boss.

When i eat cooked food i always finish with a fruit to help me feel light and with no stomach pain.
Stomach acids that we need in order to break certain foods is what age us the most(one of the most)

Pan,

I agree with most of what you are saying, save two things: humans can digest meat. I would say we are as adapted to digesting animal meats as we are to consuming fruit. I don't know about you, but I've never found meat in my stool. Also, some people are capable of handling milk. There is something to be said for the fact that cow's milk is not the same today as it was in generation's past. With heavy use of antibiotics and mold-contaminated crop (not to mention genetic modification of the food supply), today's milk is probably not nearly as healthy as it once was.

Are you saying our stomach acid is a reason we age?

anthonyspencer54 wrote:There is something to be said for the fact that cow's milk is not the same today as it was in generation's past.
Are you saying our stomach acid is a reason we age?

Agreed! Pasteurization and homogenization are key reasons why modern "industrialized" milk is a bad choice.

anthonyspencer54 wrote:Pan,

I agree with most of what you are saying, save two things: humans can digest meat. I would say we are as adapted to digesting animal meats as we are to consuming fruit. I don't know about you, but I've never found meat in my stool. Also, some people are capable of handling milk. There is something to be said for the fact that cow's milk is not the same today as it was in generation's past. With heavy use of antibiotics and mold-contaminated crop (not to mention genetic modification of the food supply), today's milk is probably not nearly as healthy as it once was.

Are you saying our stomach acid is a reason we age?

Lets take fasting with orange juice or water aka absence of what people today call food.People report terrific regenerative results like scars being peeled off,white hair turned into black ,cysts vanish etc
There was a clinique also that cured 63.000 people with orange juice fasting.

I think food is the reason we are in chemical imbalance. I think the stomach and kidneys are way too overworking
to let the body as a whole do its regenerative job.

I'd agree that a lot of our problems are the result of the state of the modern food supply. Sorry, I always get defensive when people attack meat! Haha.  

You guys are more than helpful. I'm eternally grateful.

The body's cells use glucose, fructose can not be used by the body's cells for respiration, it is just a burden on the liver and must be sent to fat cells first, glucose is used directly for cell respiration. Which is why in nature fruit generally comes out the season before the shortage so animals can fatten.

Now Catcat, its that kind of presentation of information that can give people the wrong idea about fructose!

You are absolutely right about one thing, which is that fructose is first converted to glycogen in the liver before it is used later as glucose.

First of all, both glucose and fructose are shuttled to the liver first before being used. The difference is that glucose tends to experience "first pass" metabolism so it passes "right through" and is shuttled to the cells for immediate energy. Fructose is converted, by way of fructokinase and aldolase, into DHAP and glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate, which through another series of reactions gets converted in liver glycogen.

But here's the rub. There is evidence to show that fructose is actually better for producing liver glycogen than glucose! Now, fructose can go on to be metabolised into triglycerides (which is generally bad because it suggests an overabundance of energy), but there is also evidence showing that the body preferentially fills liver glycogen stores before shuttling fructose down the pathway to forming triglycerides.

So fructose is actually a very useful sugar for replenishing liver glycogen, and we should treat it as such, and use it for exercise recovery, and in general for recovery from any activity that depletes glycogen stores. And the evidence shows that fructose is most readily absorbed in the presence of glucose (possible co-transport) when the ratio of glucose-to-fructose is 1:1, as in sucrose. Fructose often comes packaged in fruit along with glucose (no coincidence there).

So when we consider the fact that a moderate amount of fructose will more than likely be used to fill liver glycogen (all depends on current energy intake), it makes sense to consume fructose, especially in the form of fruit where it has other factors that increase the efficiency of its use. Not to mention that the free fructose content of most fruits tends to be less than 5 g per 100 g of fruit (except for things like apple, pear, figs) so eating a piece of fruit or two in one sitting will likely not have any detrimental effect.

The problem comes when we have a terrible collision of A) lack of activity, B) poor carbohydrate timing, C) too much fructose. If the timing of fructose is right, it can be incredibly beneficial and anabolic. One of the huge issues is we get too much "added" fructose from processed foods and drinks containing HFCS. When the fructose burden is too large (and liver is replete with glycogen) then its obvious that added fructose will add to triglyceride levels. But that assumes we are replete with glycogen and that we are taking in large amounts of fructose. Fruit eaten properly will likely never have that effect unless a person is extremely inactive.

And that brings up the last point, when people make connections to the fact that fruits ripen in summer and that our ancestors probably used them to accumulate fat in preparation for winter, they might be correct. But that makes the HUGE assumption that we are consuming fruit in the same way, and that our lifestyles were similar to those peoples. This is probably far from the truth. Consider the possibility of famine, overall shortage, and the short time window for fruit harvest, and lack of technologies for preventing fruit spoilage. These people would probably consume enormous amounts of fruit in short time frames, like you probably would if you were hungry most of the time and suddenly found yourself the beneficiary of a bountiful fruit tree, realizing you can't store this fruit for very long. Not to mention the fact that these early peoples were well aware of the famine ahead of them, and also of the fact that their summer month fruit eating habit tended to prepare them for it. Without these kinds of survival threats, we have the luxury of being able to better control not only our food choices, but the timing of meals, the caloric densities, and amounts. Our ancestors didn't have that luxury. While I can't be sure, I'd expect we eat fruit differently than they did and can probably expect different results.

What exactly is poor carb timing?

Hi Grow,

Just a way of saying choosing to eat carbohydrate at a time when your body really isn't in need of it. So as you'd expect, it isn't just any amount of carbohydrate, because you could rightfully say the body needs some amount of carbohydrate at any given moment.

But the liver and skeletal muscle carry a sizeable load of stored carbohydrate, so we do not need to be consuming large amounts of carbs all day long.

We do know that the processes for freeing glycogen from the liver are inherently stressful, so we are always playing at a balance of trying to provide the exact amount of fuel the body requires for its minute-to-minute upkeep while keeping liver glycogen stores just topped off. This would be perfect energy balance.

But we inevitably dip into our glycogen stores when we go without carbohydrate, or when we exercise, and during sleep (often).

So while figuring out how much carbohydrate YOU require is a personal experiment. The above can give us an idea of when eating the majority of your day's carbohydrate is probably most beneficial (i.e., the energy will be required to replenish glycogen, fuel immediate energy needs and not be converted to fat).

That would be in the morning, immediately post exercise and perhaps 1-2 hrs. after exercise. Exercise increases GLUT receptor activity and basically primes the body for efficient use of sugars. Eating 60-70% of your daily carbs after exercise almost guarantees the best utilization, keeping it in the liver and muscle, and off of your ass.

That said, there are other factors that would nullify this concept. If you are eating at a caloric defecit, then it doesn't really matter either way what time you eat your carbs.

Awesome stuff AS as always.

I wanted to ask you some questions about this in a PM but I thought since they're relevant here I might as well..

Could you give an example of foods that you might get your carbs from and on what time on an OFF day since the increased GLUT receptor activity is not there. I'm interested to see how you manage to consume about 1000 kcal worth of calories of carbs a day.

Also, you've talked about fruit and rice as a preferable source of carbs, could you go into your view on fruits grown with pesticides? Also any thoughts on rice (white/whole, poisoning scares)

I'm asking because going through the FODMAP list you've posted

http://cassandraforsythe.com/blog/Complete+FODMAP+List+For+a+Happy+Gut

These are the only fruits you can eat according to that site .. The berries are out of the question for someone that needs lots of calories so if I carelessly cross out the ones I know couldn't be eaten in bulk regularly that doesn't leave a lot. So do you stray from these at all or would you not recommend it?

SUITABLE FRUITS:
Banana
Blueberries – buy organic
Boysenberry – buy organic
Cantaloupe
Star fruit
Cranberry – buy organic
Durian
Grapes – buy organic
Grapefruit
Honeydew melon
Kiwi
Lemon
Lime (Doubt you could down a lot of these without freaking out lol)
Mandarin/Orange/Tangelo
Passion fruit
Paw paw (huh?)
Pineapple
Raspberry – buy organic
Rhubarb
Strawberry – buy organic

NTP,

No problem at all. I should have been more specific though because I do get less carbohydrate on a rest day than on a work day. I usually get between 100-150 g carbohydrate on a rest day, and the proportion of fruit and rice I'll get them from change. I also forgot to mention that I also use dextrose as a carb source on workout days.

So for a typical rest day I'd probably eat something like this:

1 cup of rice (45 g C)
3 oranges (60 g C)
Maybe another serving of fruit or a few cups of grated carrot (20-30 g C)

I will usually bump up the ratio of fat on rest days so animal meats and fats make up the rest of the food choices. I might throw some broccoli in there, but in small amounts (a lot doesn't sit well with me). I'll use a lot of grass fed butter on rest days. I don't often worry too much about timing on rest days. If my workout the previous day was sufficient, I am usually still quite sore and I find that if you are consistently doing hard training 3-4 days per week, your insulin sensitivity overall is going to be where you want it. I guess that is something you have to feel out for yourself in terms of tracking how you are meeting your goals, but I think there is a cumulative effect to training that allows you some leeway on your non-training days.

Also, I don't avoid berries. You can get a good 20-25 g c from a cup of berries.

For a typical workout day it would look more like:

3 cups of rice (90 g C)
2 oz. dextrose (60 g C)
3 oranges (60 g C)
Some broccoli and carrot to make up the rest.

I usually use brown rice. Keeping it to a cup at a sitting usually prevents any bloat and I digest it better that way.