My Return, Hair Regrowth - and some parting advice

Hey all,

A fair few months ago - I said I was leaving this forum. I spent a long time providing indepth research - backed by research papers - and dutifully recorded my results.

I'm not going to give a full recap as my threads are still there - so excuse me if I don't answer any questions or PMs covering old ground.

Firstly - the bad news:

My crown hasn't improved much. To be frank I think I've neglected it with the towel - I'm hoping to change that.
Growth has been slow.

Positives.
My hairline is very slowly filling in around my island and down to my teenage hairline. I'm not sure it will ever go back that far - but I would expect to reach being a Norwood 2.5 by March / April next year judging my progress.
The more work I put into the method the better results I get.

When I've neglected my hair routine for more than a few days, usually because family are over - my hair has suffered and become more greasy. It's taken a good few weeks before I've gotten back into making progress.

For me - DHT is either irrelevant or never was a problem. Supplements on their own will never grow back hair in any real way, but can help speed up the margo method / pp.

For the next six months - this will be my focus - combining head (not hand) stands to increase temporary hypoxia and massage to drive blood.

1. Increase blood = capillary loop development.
   Capillary loop + vellus = terminal

it's as simple as that. I - and probably many of you - have lost the capillary network in our scalps - due to ill health and genetics.

It can be regenerated. The evidence has been around us for decades. (again, no intention to repost - see my old threads)

I now suspect combining it with a healthy diet and supplements will speed up the process. More importantly - for the first time in 5 years - I can look at myself and feel ok. My hair is far from great - being a NW4 is not impressive.However, for the the first time - the quality of my hair is good - no dead straw effect, no ginger tint that appeared as I lost my hair.I'm slowly getting density back -and I could not ask for more.

So - what can I share? Well, most of its not nice - but if it impacts just a few of you enough to take action it will be worth it.

1. The majority of people are seemingly incapable of following and sticking to basic steps
   Too many want something complex. This is a simple solution - it just requires hard work.
   Noble efforts to sort out base line health problems are useless without physical demands places on your capillary network to grow

I attempted to reach out to some members here to develop a regime that would help. So far - nothing has been forthcoming - so I'm doing it myself and I've really no intention of sharing.

Instead of paying attention to what I and others posted in terms of practical advice, scientific research - many of you moved onto other things - and couldn't be bothered committing.

I can't say PP / Margos method would work for you - but for all of you that couldn't commit - you just made it clear how valuable your hair really is to you.

This might sound bitter, its not - I've gotten what I wanted - the only thing I regret is trying to help - because it has been a totally wasted effort. Far too few members here (apart from the outstanding top contributors) have any sort of decent approach - and instead are literally dragging their brains along the floor. Unable to commit, put work in or observe basic scientific method - I can't see they will easily solve their hair problems. There are a few members, who although personally nice - have such a loud noise ratio to signal that they poison almost anything - causing trouble, unable to focus on anything relevant or even apply basic logic.

I had hoped to return with a complete solution and share it. However, after having seen how the information I provided was left, and a lack of process too over again - I've come to the conclusion that most people don't want to here the solution and I've neither the time nor inclination to start that process again.

Solving hairloss - for me...

It's nothing more than the following:

1) stimulating your scalp daily - with something like Margo Method or PP. Those of you who decided to create your own wacky methods have to accept that you threw out what works for your own psychological eccentricities (eg - illogical).
2) Accepting that the process is slow.
3) Supplements do not revascularise in any meaningful way - they are part of the journey - not the starting point.

will it be a complete NW1 regrowth - I don't know, nor do I care. For the first time in years I'm not slowly losing - I'm regrowing. I'm actually happy with my hair just due to the great quality and feeling it slowly thicken up.

Nothing compares to seeing your hairline move forward. I still hate to see my baldspot or how thin my hair has gotten - but at last I am moving forward - I reached the peak of hairloss - it will never get this bad again until old age.

With that - I'll leave you - I've provided everything people need in the threads I've made over the past year. If there is a major hair growth success or miracle cure - I'll return - but beyond that I've learned I can't give away the solution to hair loss - and I've no intention of ever sharing my own personal book of research and additional methods.

I'd like to thank people like a->r, Mastery (for his brilliant approach to head injury), CS for all his knowledge, JDP for his amazing insights, Prague - who i think got close to a solution but for very different reasons and Papillia Power and Margo.

I hope the this helps you, solve you hairloss - its for the small fraction of people who pay attention and can do hard work.

For those that banned Papilla Power, and harassed him and the method constantly - I understand why his attitude irritated you - but essentially you squashed a legitimate working cure. With your constant chasing of irrelevancies and bile - you stopped a lot of people getting to something that just might have worked for them - and yourselves.

Regardless, it's been a privilege being a member here - I don't see any point in me returning - but I didn't think it was fair not to let you know how the 'story' ended. If when I reach NW2 or a miracle breakthrough happens in the forums, I'll return. Until then, all the best,

GBP

I hope all the best to you in your life GBP, leave knowing that you're a part of something very significant that nobody can take from you, and that what you've shared is helping, and will help a lot of people, me included now that I'm working these things into my regimen.

GBP:

Best of luck to you in your continued quest to grow all your hair back. It was your posts that really inspired me to finally reach out to PP in hopes of being able to use his method. I really felt he did have something worth trying, but agree, he did rub some people the wrong way! I have been doing the PP technique daily since 2/1/12, and have been having good, but slow, success. My hairline is also proceeding lower, and I firmly believe if I stick with this my hairline will completely grow back. In just the last month or two, I have been noticing the hair over the entire top of my head starting to thicken up. I do not post very often, but did want to tell you thanks and that I have gotten a lot out of your research.

To everyone doing the PP or Margo technique, stick with it!

Troy

Congrats GBP, out of curiosity, did you take any pics along the way?

GBP,

Not sure if you'll even see these posts, but just wanted to give a quick thanks. I'm new to this forum, but have gone through most of your posts. I'll spare the details of my regime, but suffice to say that this is the first time in YEARS that I have felt real hope for improving my situation through slow, persistent effort. Thanks again for all the info/insight you have provided.

gpb, I followed your posts and was truly sorry to see you go. I think you've got a good handle on hairloss and in fact your testimony and duel_black's were the "prime movers" that got me on the manual methods path. I've followed the manual methods consistently since late January and am seeing regrowth.

Further, I find your inner peace with your hairloss most promising of all. I just realized that's one thing the manual methods seem to have given all of us that have practiced them consistently...inner peace and an inner hope we never had before that maybe this thing actually can be licked.

But honestly, I have to wonder...why did you have to insult so many people on the way out? We all know who the top contributors are here, and you basically told the rest of us to suck it. Thanks a bunch, man. I for one was looking forward to you coming back and sharing some more insights and telling about the method you were developing. I said yay, GBP is back with new stuff! when I saw this thread. Instead I clicked and got a semi-diva fit and yet another swan song from an apparently discomfitted forum member. So disappointing. And boring, if I may be so bold. Melodramatic "nobody listens to me so I'm taking my toys and leaving" swan songs have been done to death, not just here but on every forum on the 'net.

Why don't you just stick around and contribute occasionally, give some newbs the benefit of your insight, and ignore the tone-deaf noisemakers who irritate you? I think many of us see a point to you returning, even if you don't.

But if you don't come back, and if perchance you're reading this, I do sincerely wish you well on your way to NW2 and beyond. The foregoing diatribe notwithstanding. You helped me more than you'll ever know.

Please don't go I am new here and would love to learn your method Can anyone here tell me what the PP method is that he speaks about? I want to maintain my hair and even grow more. What are the ways to get blood flow to scalp he speaks about? Thanks

i mean, i wouldnt give up trying to regain the teenage hair line. it took you years to lose it. even the most potent antiandrogens can take up to a year or more before maximum regrowth would occur.

and to say dht is irrelevant is just silly. men with a gene mutation which prevents them from producing 5 alpha reductase never bald. castrated men don't bald. if you have male pattern baldness, dht is not irrelevant. if you have hair loss that is not male pattern then maybe dht is irrelevant.

What a grouchy dude. Very informative, but grouchy. I think maybe we need to pool some money together and hook GPB up with an escort.

Papilla Power's method relies completely on, essentially, blood flow. What I noticed immediately when using his method, is that it resulted in an increase in blood flow to the scalp. How do I recognize this feeling? It's the same exact feeling that I get whenever I would do an LLLT treatment. The difference is that this is a daily treatment, whereas LLLT is a 3-day-a-week treatment. LLLT's benefits aren't limited to bloodflow, though I do feel that bloodflow should be something that, on a daily basis, is encouraged.

GBP is definitely right on the money in that regard. The issue that I had with PP's technique is that, well, it's a technique. It results personally in sore tendons, and is generally annoying (for me) to do. It doesn't mean that I won't try integrating it again into my regimen, but it's one of those things that's a bit difficult to turn into a daily habit.

Have any of you noticed "channels" on your forehead? By this i mean lines going up your forehead like a river that you can feel with your fingers when you rub your fingers over them. They feel like channels. I have some about a 3/16 of an inch wide, traveling from my eyebrows up my skull.

I first noticed them in a picture a few years ago, i thought it was areas where muscle wasnt, kind of like the area between puzzle pieces. You can only see them under certain lighting conditions and if im holding my breath.

Well today i was upside down looking in the mirror and i realised that these are paths were veins are going up my forehead, as when im upside down they bulge out. Where as when im standing upright, they are actually deflated making them feel like channels.

One of these main veins travels up my forehead then off to the left temple where one single terminal hair is growing out of that area. This hair is about half an inch below my weak hairline.

When im upside down or even with my torso bent to the side i can see in the mirror that plenty of blood rushes to my head quickly, along with many branches of veins bulging up my forehead all the way across the galea.

Odd thing is i have one of the channels going up almost dead center of my head and the hair there started to miniaturize a few years ago, so no it looks kind of like a cow lick right there.

Ive tried taking pictures a few times but its hard to show the detail with my camera. So im curious, can you guys see these veins, are they bulging when standing upright or basically deflated like mine?

elan--

Yes, we have TONS of them in our foreheads. I used to be a big pro wrestling fan, and the way they would make themselves grotesquely bleed is by slicing their foreheads ever-so-slightly due to how much blood you can get from just a little scratch up there. It's noticeable for me if I do upside-down shoulder push-ups, or heavy weight in the gym.

Melodramatic "nobody listens to me so I'm taking my toys and leaving" swan songs have been done to death, not just here but on every forum on the 'net.

This is why people aren't listening. It's actually pretty simple.

If I am not mistaken before starting this method the OP's norwood level was less than it is now. Yes things that work can induce a shed but it generally isn't a prolonged progression to higher norwood level. What is an onlooker to make of this? The damn thing might not even be working. His MPB may have simply progressed and he attributed it to a shed brought on by this method. No one is going to do something that without a doubt worsens the clinical level of their male pattern baldness. This isnt hard to understanding. Being curmudgonely about it is silly. Maybe it really works. I dont doubt that in the long haul his hair quality will be better, but I can fully understand why based on his experience people wouldnt want to do it. ANd people had legitimate reason to be irate with PP. He asked for donations and then went to requiring them. And forcing people to get a notarized letter just to tell them some updated contents of a book from 30 years ago? Give me a break. It'd be better if he just charged for the contents of a website you need a paid account for. It makes more sense. ASking for a notarization makes no fucking sense. He knows full well that very few of the highly self conscious would go to a notary public with a letter stating that they are getting a cure for their baldness from some dude who lives in indonesia. I regard asking such a thing from someone who is overly self conscious about their condition as borderline maliciousness (asking something which brings distress which has little actual basis in a reason).

I'm not saying the method doesn't actually work. Maybe it does. But this is why most people would have reticence to trying it, when there are other things which seem to have a greater basis or more evidence.

I wouldnt do it simply because I know from experience of the way I used to dry my hair that scrubbing your scalp with a towel tears your hair up. The effect of baldness is overwhelmingly entirely cosmetic anyhow. Ripping your hair up with a towel makes it look worse. I'll just laser. It improves circulation. Should be effectively the same without the negatives associated with tearing your hair up with the friction force of a towel. I have read explanations from OMG and lasering which look very similar to those of PP regarding the status of his hair when it was being regenerated by the laser (hair of differing lengths etc).

Lawofthelema, what proof do you have that castrated men don't bald?

LawOfThelema wrote:ANd people had legitimate reason to be irate with PP. He asked for donations and then went to requiring them. And forcing people to get a notarized letter just to tell them some updated contents of a book from 30 years ago? Give me a break. It'd be better if he just charged for the contents of a website you need a paid account for. It makes more sense. ASking for a notarization makes no fucking sense. He knows full well that very few of the highly self conscious would go to a notary public with a letter stating that they are getting a cure for their baldness from some dude who lives in indonesia.

Well, i wont defend him nor attack, cause there are allways two sides that make a fight possible. As far as i know - i was active reader on boards at that time and witnessed all what happened - he wanted to make a few bucks out of method - which in my honest opinion works better than 70% found on this forum for hairloss, but his overconfidence and unability to handle balding people sceptics help him revealed a monster out of himself. What was first egg or chicken? In this case egg/chicken is one, but chickens/eggs are many. It doesnt really matter who started and who behave wrong first. The point is that goal of us all suffered from it, and constructive behaviour wasnt present on nobody's side. I can understand it all, but see too many people pointing fingers on one guy who unlike many others offered great value for the money.

About lasers -can you achive temporarly hypoxia with lasers also?

LawOfThelema wrote:i mean, i wouldnt give up trying to regain the teenage hair line. it took you years to lose it. even the most potent antiandrogens can take up to a year or more before maximum regrowth would occur.

and to say dht is irrelevant is just silly. men with a gene mutation which prevents them from producing 5 alpha reductase never bald. castrated men don't bald. if you have male pattern baldness, dht is not irrelevant. if you have hair loss that is not male pattern then maybe dht is irrelevant.

Hi - you might be right - I'll continue doing the method until I'm old. Whatever happens happens.

Re your DHT point - I addressed that a while back - and like the majority of the forum - I believe its more of a warning sign than a cause.
Regarding your towel method - that's sad - I don't know what to say? Change your technique.People - aren't listening - as long a few picked it up - that's all I can really do.

In terms of my hair regrowing - it is - my photos show that. Yes, I also shed a lot - but it's quite easy for me to tell the difference. Again - I've commented on the whys of this in the past.

Good luck with whatever it is you are doing.

Just to finish off:

The vast majority of people here I found great - I just wish more had implemented.

If I've upset anyone with my 'grumpy' reply - take it as my reaction to seeing some of the stuff posted in threads I left to help people. I'm not sure how the forum can progress if most people ignore basic scientific principles. EG - test one thing until a hypotheses is proven or disproved. EG - if you mess about with something that is said to work - you are going to be clueless as to the cause or non cause of your results.

I fully believe that this forum will provide a complete, comprehensive and easier to use solution than my margo PP frankenstein.

By way of a thankyou to 'Whoda' and more:

I

• use the Papilla / Margo method (temporary hypoxia)
  I do head (not hand stands) - most days (temporary hypoxia)
  deep breathing during - helps
  running on the spot during - helps
  rubbing the back of your head and the sides after helps
  I try and exercise a lot. (general health)
  

As many of you know - I also suffer from diffuse thinning - this isn't cured - but is definitely getting better.

I'll recap my theory very quickly here - there is support from a lot of papers and research

• Minixodil works via increasing fenistrations in blood vessels. It does not generate new networks. It makes current blood vessels more leaky (this is a fact). This lowers blood pressure but also increases the amount of blood plasma in surrounding tissues
  Velus hair does not have a capillary loop (this is a fact)
  As hair moves out of the velus stage naturally, it requires more blood and develops a capillary loop. The success of minox suggests that increased growth = increased plasma levels can be reversed to increased plasma levels induce new growth
  Higher amount of 'blood' either in situ or via capillary loop can force the dermal papillia to grow (again, how minox generates new hair - the hair generated is weak though due to the increased concentration being above normal but below what a capillary loop will deliver)
  The thickness of hair is related to the number of cells (it begins with an e, but I forget) on the top of the dermal papilla - fact
  The amount of blood controls the thickness (number of cells) - fact

So:

• Does the mechanism that creates the capillary loop work both ways? I'd suggest minoxdil and 30 years of testimonials from Margos clients and PPs and others -says yes.
  
  What role does DHT play? Its probably an end stage player when blood delivery and waste removal have stagnated. I suspect that DHT inhibitors would be unnecessary with a healthy diet and an efficient system of capillary loops (read direct connection). (theory)
  
  What mechanism drives the growth of the local network. As evidenced by CS and others research - temporary hypxoia. (fact)
  
  What mechanism creates capillary loops? Increased demand (fact) - and possibly increased bloodflow - almost like a feedback mechanism (theory)

Research for someone other than me (lol)

• Can the formation of capillary loops be aided by a topical or suppliment
  JDP had some great suggestions that hint at the blood that flows out of the eye socket being restricted - what protocols can be used to increase that?
  Can hair brushing play a role - as I mentioned before -numerous posts and blogs 'out there' hint so?

LawOfThelma suggested lasering offers many of the same benefits. I don't see any evidence for that, or reason to come to that conclusion unless - hair growth is the only benefit you count. The mechanisms are quite different.

The biostimulation created by lasering seems to drive ATP production. A great hair growing benefit - but not related - simply because it does not create temporary hypoxia and is unlikely to result in aniogenesis or the other genesis (I want to say vascular).

The two may combine well.

Other methods - look at the amount of mechanical methods that work to some degree. Ignore the crackpot theories behind them (skull expansion etc) and you are left with the application of pressure. Pressure = temporary hypoxia just like those ice blocks on peoples shoulders that used to grow hair. Restore the 'local' network and waste is removed, and capillary loops are generated.

Ultimately though - if you're not willing or able to do the basics (mechanical) - there is probably little point looking out there for the next neat trick - you already have what you need. The only unproven part of this theory is that of the capillary loop - plasma levels mechanism working both ways - that relys on anecdotal evidence. Everything else has been evidence through references to research papers. Does this mean that hairloss is solved and this is the final answer? No. There may well be simpler mechanisms that will have the same end result - but as I said - I'm at peace with my hair now. Its regrowing.

I'm not sure I have anything else to give back - but what I can say is - there is no reason not to start today - with the Margo method or one that applies similar principles. Get rid of toxins and heavy metals and work on your cardio vascular health.

If someone can run with what I did - and improve it in terms of the work required and results achieved I would be very happy!

Dude, you're amazing! All the best.

gbp - You missed have missed my earlier question when writing your long, informative posts. Do you have any before and after pictures, or even any pictures taken of you which would show progress during your journey?

Hi,

I do.

All the best everyone,

GBP out.

LawOfThelma suggested lasering offers many of the same benefits. I don't see any evidence for that, or reason to come to that conclusion unless - hair growth is the only benefit you count. The mechanisms are quite different.

The biostimulation created by lasering seems to drive ATP production. A great hair growing benefit - but not related - simply because it does not create temporary hypoxia and is unlikely to result in aniogenesis or the other genesis (I want to say vascular).

I may be the only one on this forum that has used both a laser helmet and PP's method, so I'll give honest feedback on the two techniques.

The result of the PP method and how lasers make your scalp feel is virtually identical. Temporary hypoxia is induced by essentially starving an area of oxygen, and then ceasing the starvation to cause a rush of oxygenated blood into the starved tissue.

Do lasers induce hypoxia? I do not believe so. However, they do not need to in order to bring that same rush of blood into the scalp tissue. Here is a practical example for everybody...if you work out your biceps or triceps in the gym, notice how the blood floods into those areas as a result of the heavy lifting. The same occurs with the scalp when you use either lasers or PP's method--they stimulate your scalp muscles thus causing an increase in blood to the affected areas. Of course, PP's method doesn't address inflammation, doesn't necessarily increase SOD or Nitric Oxide production, and doesn't remove fibrosis (scar tissue) from follicle walls; all things that lasers do.

Lasers not inducing angiogenesis?

Science indicates that this is incorrect. Lasers GREATLY result in angiogenesis, and a simple google search for "lasers" + "angiogenesis" would yield those results. Here's one such study:

http://www.hh.um.es/pdf/Vol_19/19_1/Garavello-19-43-48-2004.pdf

"Low-level energy treatment accelerated the deposition of bone matrix and histological characteristics compatible with an active recovery of the injured tissue. He-Ne laser therapy significantly increased the number of blood vessels after 7 days irradiation at an energy density of 94.5 Jcm-2, but significantly decreased the number of vessels in the 14-day irradiated tibiae, independent of the dosage. These effects were attributed to laser treatment, since no significant increase in blood vessel number was detected between 8 and 15 non-irradiated control tibiae."

gbp2000 wrote:Hi,

I do.

All the best everyone,

GBP out.

Do you have any intention of posting them?

Hmm, i see one problem here - the wound was already there and by this regeneration/healing was also already triggered... I think this research show how well is to have lasers while the wound is healing and not putting lasers on your skin will increase number of your vessels. It might be this way - but cant see it from this research. I think that simmilar results would also be if experiment was about sun exposure, AC stimulating current, DC stimulating current, hot - cold therapy, etc. They are all great in promoting vessel density.

And i am not bullshiting about electric stimulation - here is one of many researches which shows that voltage has to do something/maint thing with healing/regenerating. BTW: I am still amazed by the book i've read - Body Electrics by Becker.

Beebrox--

That's true, however, they used a control group as well which didn't yield anywhere near the same result. If the lasers didn't affect the vessel growth, then the control would have yielded the same result.

Agreed on the other methods though...great ways to enhance vessel proliferation. Have to check out that book by Becker sometime...

Brushing/toweling seem to be the poor mans option to lasering, although it may not provide all the benefits that lasers are capable of.

I started off toweling and now I'm brushing just because I find it easier and more convenient. Minox has been the only thing that has really made a big difference for me over the years, so I'm hoping this method of scalp stimulation will mimic the effects of minox without the side effects. Since I've been balding I've been so gentle with my scalp, not even really using a towel when I come out of the shower for fear of shedding hair. So should be interesting to see how it works, great to see people are having success.

I'm only about a month in, so nothing to report so far. I've also started consuming french green clay for detox purposes, and kefir. Will report back with any successes.