My Story - Advice/Encouragement

Hello...

I am a 36 year old male. It appears (from my Dermatologist and Doctor) that I have Androgenic Alopecia. My hair has most certainly thinned over the last 6 or so years. I cannot tell any recession or patterns, but just a general thinning on top. The thinning is only really noticeable under bright lights. My mother's father was bald and he had prostate issues (which I have wondered if there is a link).

I am in good health, exercise with weights and cardio and my diet is pretty good (occasional MacDonalds, but not much).

I have done a lot of internet searching as well as stressing over this situation and feel that natural remedy would be best. My Doc and Dermatologist both prescribed Proscar and as tempting that may be, I have resisted. I may use it as a last resort, but really want to avoid it if I possibly can.

I wanted to share my current supplement intake;

Saw Palmetto - 3x a day totalling 1080mg
Beta Sitosterol - 2x a day totalling 750mg
Tocomin - 3x a day totalling 960mg
Reversatrol - 1x a day
Curcumin - 1x a day
Vitamin D3 - 3 times a day totalling 3,000 IU
Multi Vitamin 1x a day (NSI brand with all the hair related ingredients like Biotin etc)
Shampoo with Nizoral 2% every second day
Shampoo with natural shampoo (saw palmetto and biotin - no sls etc) on non-nizoral days

I have MSM and Fo-ti on it's way...

I have probably been on this intake seriously for about 3 - 3.5 months now. So far, I must say that my hair loss has stabilized. I only notice hairs coming out when I wash my hair. No major hair fall through out the day and when I check my pillow in the morning, maybe 1-2 hairs. When I was my hair, may 20-25 hairs fall out?

I also have started brushing my hair morning and night with a soft plastic brush to stimulate the scalp.

Lately, I feel a stubble type feeling when I run my fingers around up there. It is hard looking at my own scalp (as I still have hair all over), but I definitely see short hairs all over amongst the longer hairs. Not sure if these are the good hairs coming back or what?

I am keen to hear some opinions and thoughts and thanks for a site where we are not being hammered by a pharmacutical company.

Cheers,

Hey Renky, welcome to the forum. Congratulations on the stabilisation, that itself many don't accomplish.

One thing I would add is about your saw palmetto and beta sitosterol. The owner of the site, CS said yesterday:

Saw Palmetto for hair loss is a little like a time capsule. Beta Sitosterol should be used only in the very young, and it will work better with other factors considered.

Blocking 5-AR is an outdated principle and doesn't address the real cause of hair loss.

Also, the dosage of these you take seems very high, I've seen CS recommend between 50-100mg of beta sitosterol per day, which is massively less than you are taking. He's also noted it is usually most successful in the young, so it may not be benefitting you.

I don't mean to try prevent any more success however I would try slowly lower your dose of saw palmetto and beta sitosterol and see if you get any change, if there's no change, drop them both.

Renky, glad your loss has stabilized. I am curious as to when you are taking your supplements.

TN

Thanks for the welcome...

I appreciate your comments on Saw Palmetto and Beta Sis. I will heed and lower the dosages starting today. With Saw Palmetto, I have had two seperate Naturopaths (one was a Doctor of Natropathy "ND") inform me that Saw Palmetto worked as well as Proscar in their opinion. I have also spoken to a Pharmacist regarding Saw Palmetto and they advised that it worked as well as Finasteride with their medical research sources. My dad's Doctor also commented on the Saw Palmetto and promising research coming out of Europe. Saying all that, I am hoping that Saw Palmetto is truly a good alternative to Proscar that was prescribed for me.

I am very certain the hair loss has tremendously reduced. I remember a few years ago that hair would be on my pillow in the mornings and my wife commenting. I also will never forget the night I took a bath and when we drained the tub, my hair was all around the rim of the tub. My wife called me in to see this as she was concerned if my weight lifting supplements (creatine, glutamine and whey powder) were causing issues. Now, I reckon I may loose about 20-25 hairs in the shower and maybe the very odd one when I brush my hair morning and night. That is a positive I am truly happy about...

While I have hair all over my head, I am now hoping it will thicken up and revive.

I need to also mention that until 3-4 months ago I was generally operating on 4-5 hours sleep at night and lived elevated stress levels. This was my life pattern for 5 or more years. About 3-4 months ago, I really got serious about my hair and have hit it from all angles... I am now going for 6-7 (preferably 7) hours sleep a night and my stress is much less. I am also consistant with the vitamins and supplements.

Previously I used to suffer very bad scalp conditions. I would consider it to have been worse than dandruff. More like a dermatitus of the scalp with a serious bout of cradle cap. It was chronic. After being on these supplements, my hair is much softer and my scalp is a'ok.

I do see new short hairs up on top, they are definately there according to the random areas I examine. I cannot tell if these are a good quality hair growing though. I feel stubble too, so that seems promising?

Thanks,

HI "The Natural"

Here are my dosages;

Mornings -
Saw Palmetto
Beta Sis
Vitamin D
Tocomin

Lunch -
Saw Palmetto
Vitamin D
Tocomin
Reversatrol
Multi Vitamin

Dinner -
Saw Palmetto
Curcumin
Tocomin
Vitamin D

I will be shortly adding Fo-Ti and MSM. After the previous reply, I plan to cut back doses of Beta Sis to 150mg and also cut back on Saw Palmetto a to maybe 540mg a day.

What do you think?

Thanks.

Renky wrote:HI "The Natural"

Here are my dosages;

Mornings - Saw Palmetto, Beta Sis, Vitamin D, Tocomin

Lunch - Saw Palmetto, Vitamin D, Tocomin, Reversatrol, Multi Vitamin

Dinner - Saw Palmetto, Curcumin, Tocomin, Vitamin D

I will be shortly adding Fo-Ti and MSM. After the previous reply, I plan to cut back doses of Beta Sis to 150mg and also cut back on Saw Palmetto a to maybe 540mg a day.

What do you think? Thanks.

A couple of observations, if I may. Not sure that you even need Saw Palmetto or Beta Sitosterol. From my experience and readings, these "DHT blockers" may be effective for those in the early stages of hair loss, but even this is short term: The body will soon adjust itself to these herbs, rendering them ineffective.

Another concern is that they, Saw Palmetto and Beta Sitosterol, will interfere with the other supplements that I am presently taking.

A synergism exists between curcumin and resveratrol, so it's a good idea to take them at the same time.

Anyway, I hope that your hair continues to improve.

TN

Thanks for your input "The Natural"... I will tweak a few things in my diet and make some adjustments...

One supplement I forgot all about - Green Tea capsules... I am taking these also.

I just don't know if I can give up Saw Palmetto at this stage. I have a feeling this has been a big part of my success, so I would like to keep that going. Besides that, it has been drummed into me that Saw Palmetto is a natural equivalent to Proscar. I think I just want to keep it going for the time being anyway...

Ok, how does this look for my intake?

Mornings -
Beta Sis - 375mg
Saw Palmetto Extract - 360mg
Green Tea extract - 500mg
Vitamin D3 - 1,000 IU
Tocomin - 120mg

Lunch -
Green Tea Extract - 500mg
Multi Vitamin (with Biotin, Zinc etc, etc) - 2 capsules
Reversatrol
Curcumin
Tocomin - 120mg

Dinner -
Saw Palmetto - 180mg
Green Tea Extract - 500mg
Vitamin D3 - 1,000 IU
Fo-Ti
MSM

Thanks!

Just thinking... Does that mean Finasteride becomes innefective over time also?

I think for some people finasteride wears off.

Renky, psychological, I do understand. These other supplements (specifically, beta sitosterol, saw palmetto, and green tea extract) made me feel like I was really tackling my hair loss situation. But in actuality, I didn't need them. You'll have to find out what works/doesn't work for you.

TN

The Multi that I take is by NSI (Synergy). It seems to have a lot of ingredients in it like copper, magnese, reversatrol etc. I think I will stick with this one along with all my other supplements.

Beta sis seems to be getting a bad rap and may drop that one off when I finish the bottle.

Other than that, does my supplement intake and timing look good? As previously stated, I believe my hair seems to have stabilized. I am really keen to get it thickening up again (without finasteride).

Thanks again.

Renky, try to figure out what supplements have stabilized your hair loss. This is really important.

To me, it just feels like you're taking an awful lot, and you really have no idea as to how these things interact together.

Three years ago I started my regimen with just tocotrienols (Toco-Sorb, similar to your Tocomin), then added curcumin and resveratrol. I used just these three supplements for 4 - 6 months, if I recall correctly. So I pretty much knew exactly what was doing what for my scalp/hair.

But everyone is different.

I understand what you are saying "TN". I just tremble at the thought of stopping everything and then the hair loss starting again. One of the first supplements I really started on was the saw palmetto (I was not on the extract at first, and then got educated so I switched to the extract). Secondly I started on Tocomin and Pygeum. I would have to say that saw palmetto and tocomin have played a good part in the halting the hair loss. I checked my pillow again this morning and maybe 3-4 hairs (one looked to be an eyebrow hair) and when I brush my hair to stimulate the scalp, maybe another 5 fall out then. During the shower, maybe 20 or so. I also feel that the nizoral 2% is making a huge difference. I used to have chronic dandruff as previously mentioned. Now I don't have dandruff! I also used to suffer a lot of heart burn and take prilosec. Now I only get occasional heart burn. I would also get frequent rashes around my nose and chest. I believe this is all signs of inflamation. All these things have backed off now.

Maybe if I kept all the DHT inhibitors like saw palmetto, nettles and beta sis (even if it is just for my own physcological comfort) for the mornings and then focused lunch and dinner on things like the dietary herbs such as MSM, Vitamin D3, Tocomin, Green Tea, Fo-ti?

Is this a reasonable halfway approach to just dropping everything?

Thanks.

When I used to take DHT blockers, I still would get terrible dandruff, and needed to use an anti-itch/dandruff shampoo. Within several weeks of using curcumin and resveratrol, I noticed that my scalp inflammation reduced dramatically, so much so, that I have not used/needed an anti-dandruff for three years now. Also, I now take turmeric and resveratrol right before bed, and it is excellent for my heartburn, better for me than MSM.

Hey, why not just take the DHT blockers (green tea extract could be included in this bunch), vitamins, and see what effect this has on your hair for six months.

The Natural wrote:

Renky wrote:HI "The Natural"

Here are my dosages;

Mornings - Saw Palmetto, Beta Sis, Vitamin D, Tocomin

Lunch - Saw Palmetto, Vitamin D, Tocomin, Reversatrol, Multi Vitamin

Dinner - Saw Palmetto, Curcumin, Tocomin, Vitamin D

I will be shortly adding Fo-Ti and MSM. After the previous reply, I plan to cut back doses of Beta Sis to 150mg and also cut back on Saw Palmetto a to maybe 540mg a day.

What do you think? Thanks.

A couple of observations, if I may. Not sure that you even need Saw Palmetto or Beta Sitosterol. From my experience and readings, these "DHT blockers" may be effective for those in the early stages of hair loss, but even this is short term: The body will soon adjust itself to these herbs, rendering them ineffective.

Another concern is that they, Saw Palmetto and Beta Sitosterol, will interfere with the other supplements that I am presently taking.

A synergism exists between curcumin and resveratrol, so it's a good idea to take them at the same time.

Anyway, I hope that your hair continues to improve.

TN

I agree with the Natural on Beta Sis and Saw Palmetto.

One thing you might want to try, if you really, really think they are helping, is cycling them. Maybe 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

I would absolutely stick with the resveratrol and curcumin combo.

Ok guys... I am going to take a chance on what you are saying (kind of).

As of next week, hopefully my complete supplements should be here. Here is what I will have in the cupboard;

Saw Palmetto
Beta sis
Green Tea
Nettle Root Powder 300mg
Curcumin 95 500mg
Reversatrol (Grape Seed extract) 150mg
MSM 1000mg
Fo-Ti Root
Multi Vitamin
Biotin 5,000mcg
Vitamin D3
Tocomin

I just cannot give up Saw Palmetto at this stage. Maybe Beta Sis I can give up. Even if this is just psycological on my part, I just would like to keep a DHT preventitive part to my intake.

Based on the above supplements, can you guys suggest times and amounts? I want to polish up a good regimin and stick with it for 6 months (unless there was a dramatic hair loss episode).

Have any of you taken finasteride? It is a temptation, that dangles there for me, but it just sounds like another chemical. I do like hearing you guys' approach with stemming the root of the problem and not just fixing the symptoms.

Thanks.

If it is ok for me to ask, can you share your results with getting your diets and supplements correct? Have you had hair actually re-grow and thicken up?

After beginning curcumin and resveratrol, I noticed an immediate improvement in the condition of my scalp: Within a month, I noticed a drastic reduction in dandruff and much less scalp irritation. By the second month, my hair loss seemed to stabilize. Between the second - third month, my hair loss completely stopped. And that was three years ago.

Got some thin regrowth in the crown and temple areas. Things like MSM, tocotrienols, royal jelly (maybe), fo ti (maybe), vitamin C and D3 have really helped to thicken up these regrown hairs.

From everything that I have experienced and read, these supplements will improve the scalp's condition for most people, stop hair loss for many (within three months), and provide regrowth for some/few (within four - six months).

TN

Ok, it sounds very promising...

All the supplements I ordered was done before I joined this site, so I am hoping I have the right ones and dosages.

Can anyone comment on the timing and dosages?

Thanks.

Sorry, but I wanted to bump this thread up as I am still in a bit of a quandry...

Tonight I brushed and washed my hair. I think tonight was the most I lost in hair a while (around 30 hairs). I will monitor this very closely. Only thing I could put it down to would be reducing the saw palmetto to 360mg and taking that in the morning instead of spreading out over the day...

Ok, I need to lock in on my regimen... Please help.

Breakfast???
Saw Palmetto - 360mg
Green Tea - 500mg
Nettle Root

Lunch???
Vitamin D3 - 2,000 IU
Tocomin - 120mg
Multi Vitamin (NSI Synergy)
MSM

Dinner???
Curcumin - (Jarrows) 500mg
Resveratrol (NSI grape seed extract) 300mg
Tocomin 120mg

Before Bed???
Fo-Ti

How does this sound? Please? I have spent a good part of the past few evenings searching this site and cannot find anything real clear on the dosages and times. I still want to stay with the DHT portion for a while and have cut that back a lot after advice here.

Thanks

I am a weight lifter and also wanted to know if Glutamine and Creatine are detrimental to hair?

Thanks.

Renky,

From everything that I have read and experienced, DHT blockers are most effective for 20-somethings in the early stages of hair loss. You are asking for advice, so I am telling you that these type of supplements are a waste of money for someone in their mid-thirties trying to control his hair loss long-term.

By the way, I run four/five times a week, and have found fo ti to be excellent for knee pain (but not so much for hair loss). Though it may thicken up your existing hair. I would take it in the middle of the day, switching places with MSM.

And I don't think you need to take so much Tocomin. The directions on the NSI bottle are to "take 1 softgel daily." And each softgel contains 60 mg. So why are you taking 4 times this amount?

Hope this helps,

TN

Basically I formulated my original regimen via a Natropath and her experiences with success at beating hair loss with her patients. She was an "ND" and what a lot of what she said seemed right. I have since come here and I need to retrain what I was originally told. I am doing my best (today was the first day in 6 months that I didn't take Beta Sis), but it is hard.

I am busting to just lock in on a good regimen and just stick with it. At the moment I feel confused and am flip flopping.

Natural, can you help me to get my regimen sorted?

I have just read that maybe multi vitamins are not so good to take? I wonder if I need zinc and biotin etc... Help......

I have listed what I am coming up with for a regimen and am more than happy to just go with what you suggest.

Also, does anyone know if Glutamine and Creatine are bad for hair?

I just spoke with another Natropath and she said I should not be taking 5,000 IU a day unless supervised by a Doctor. So I am cutting that back to 3,000 IU. I work inside an office all day.

Thanks...

I used to cycle on and off of creatine and I feel like it hurt my hair, can't say for sure though.

Renky wrote:Basically I formulated my original regimen via a Natropath and her experiences with success at beating hair loss with her patients. She was an "ND" and what a lot of what she said seemed right. I have since come here and I need to retrain what I was originally told. I am doing my best (today was the first day in 6 months that I didn't take Beta Sis), but it is hard.

Yes, it's hard, because we have been conditioned to believe that inhibiting DHT is all there is to fighting hair loss. Trust me when I tell you that any success achieved this way will only be short-term. I have read the same about topicals containing DHT blockers as well: initial success, the body adjusts, and then the hair loss starts again.

I stopped taking multi-vitamins years ago, because they were ineffective for me long term and increased my urination visits three-four fold.

TN