Best meat to eat

NevadaNed Thu May 06, 2010 10:18 am

First of all is pork really that bad? People always say that it is a dirty meat because pigs don't sweat. is this true? Do chickens sweat, do fish sweat, do cattle sweat? I don't know but it seems like an argument anti-pork people just throw out there as gospel. I'm not talking about ham, just plain pork.

IH, You say lamb is a good meat to eat correct? What about turkey?

angstman Fri May 07, 2010 1:22 am

I dont eat pork that you can buy in the store, I try to stick to wild hog when I do eat it. I know that they are full of parasites and need to be cooked to an internal temperature of 160 degrees to rid them of these.

People are anti-pork because of the Bible, yes, but also because pigs on farms roll around in their own fecies, eat slop, and eat fecies which makes them full of toxins.

magic_gro Fri May 07, 2010 4:05 am

pork is good for your tastebuds... i am sorry to hear that it is full of toxins Mad

takingaction Sun May 16, 2010 7:04 am

Non-organic turkey isn't particularly healthy. Lamb isn't great, either, though I like the taste. I made a thread like this. It also was overlooked. I'm not sure why.

Paradox Sun May 16, 2010 7:52 am

what's unhealthy about lamb?

misterE Sun May 16, 2010 8:38 am

None!

Meat contains animal protein, cholesterol, and fat!

Animal protein increases serum IGF-1, which decreases SHBG, which lowers your total testosterone by making it "free", leaving it to convert into DHT or estrogen. Animal protein also causes bone loss; the protein in animals is so concentrated that when your body finally breaks it down into amino acids, your blood becomes acidic due to a high concentration of amino acids, in order to neutralize the acidic blood, you body has to leech calcium (which is alkaline) from your bones to maintain PH balance. Now you have calcium flowing through your veins, in order to get the calcium back into the bones, your body has to use vast amounts of vitamin D, if you don't have efficient vitamin D levels the calcium cannot be brought back into the bone and as a consequence the calcium accumulates in soft tissues like the kidneys, causing kidney stones or in the veins and arteries causing atherosclerosis. Animal protein is the main cause of arthritis, osteoporosis, tooth loss, etc.

Meat contains cholesterol, which is a steroid hormone. But the thing is, your body already makes all the cholesterol it needs, when we take in extra cholesterol, our body makes extra hormones like "free" testosterone. Plus extra cholesterol can accumulate in the veins and arteries, which can cause atherosclerosis, a disease which correlates with MPB!

Meat contains animal fat, or animal body fat, which is nothing more than aromatase enzymes! Why would anyone want to eat aromatase? When you eat fat, you store fat. The purpose of fat is to store extra calories in times of famine, which doesn't occur anymore. When you store dietary fat as body fat, you create aromatase enzymes. Aromatase enzymes turn "free" testosterone into estradiol; a very potent estrogen, which can cause feminizing effects on the male body and personality. Studies show that when you eat fat you increase your estrogen levels [1] [2] [3]. Well, the only way to make estrogen is with "free" testosterone, so we can assume that if estrogen levels rise as a result of "free" testosterone, so does DHT. Dietary fat also causes insulin resistance. Not to mention the negative effects it has on cardiovascular health.

[1] Effect of a low-fat diet on hormone levels in women with cystic breast disease.
[2] Effect of low-fat diet on female sex hormone levels.
[3] Effect of diet on the plasma levels, metabolism and excretion of estrogens.

CausticSymmetry Sun May 16, 2010 12:06 pm

misterE - I'm sorry, but all of this information is utterly incorrect. I'm a little short on time today, so I'll just mention a few points.

Cystic breast disease is a state that occurs with low iodine. Add iodine, it can be prevented.

Fat doesn't create fat storage, instead insulin is lipogenic.

More info here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4362041487661765149#

Aromatase enzyme increases when insulin resistance climbs. For most people, insulin resistance is accomplished with a low carbohydrate diet (not everyone, but most).

Finally, acid alkaline balance is not as simple as many have proposed. First, the thyroid function governs this more than any other factor. This is why a low thyroid state always occurs with cancer. Urinary pH has little to do with blood pH. Not everyone needs to alkalize, instead it depends on your metabolic type.

misterE Sun May 16, 2010 1:13 pm

If carbs are fattening why aren't most third world countries fat? Every successful major population has thrived on a high glycemic diet; Asians with white rice, Peru with potatoes, etc.

The glycemic diet is faulty, and here's why: the glycemic index makes it look like dietary fat has no role in insulin sensitivity, when in fact the opposite is true: the type of fat and the amount of fat you eat dictates how sensitive you are to insulin. You can eat a high glycemic meal as long as no fat is involved with that meal, the perfect example is a baked potato, which does have a high glycemic score, but that doesn't matter as long as your insulin sensitivity is good.

If you are insulin resistant, that doesn't mean to avoid carbs, it means correct the problem that way you can metabolize carbs. Well, what gets in the way of you metabolizing carbs? Fat.

Fat causes insulin resistance, not carbs. The way fat causes insulin resistance is that fat down-regulates the insulin receptor, or in other words, fat binds to the insulin receptor, when that happens insulin cannot unlock the cell to let the glucose in, and as a result you have excess insulin and glucose in your blood.

People must realize that the western diet that is loaded with trans fat and saturated animal fat (and in my opinion animal protein) is what causes insulin resistance, not carbs. Carbs are clean burning fuel, the most ideal fuel for the body.

Dr. Neal Barnard has reversed diabetes with a low-fat vegan diet, he explains diabetes like this: you have a lock and a key, the lock is the cell membrane, and the key is insulin. The key goes into the lock to open the cell to let the glucose in. But what happens when someone puts a big wad of gum inside the lock? Well, the key can't go into the lock to open the cell. The big wad of gum is dietary fat!

takingaction Sun May 16, 2010 1:24 pm

It was something I read, maybe about how lamb is raised. No one source is gospel, though.

Here's a webpage about this very topic.
http://searchwarp.com/swa66166.htm

Silverlin Mon May 17, 2010 7:08 pm

Fish I would suggest is the most beneficial meat there is, followed by fowl and lamb. Lean meats in general are the best. I personally would only consume red meat sparingly.

angstman Tue May 18, 2010 2:58 am

I think moderation is the key. Life is too short not to enjoy a little of everything here and there. You wont go bald if you have a slice of pizza, a steak, or a piece of cake a couple times a month. I couldnt imagine living a vegan diet/lifestyle. I am so open minded to just about every food- imaginging life with only half of what I eat now would just plain suck.

On another note, a local organic farmer Im friends with just got some Barbado sheep which Im anxious to try. He says its one of the best and most lean red meats for you.

ubraj Tue May 18, 2010 3:20 am

angstman wrote:I think moderation is the key. Life is too short not to enjoy a little of everything here and there. You wont go bald if you have a slice of pizza, ~~a steak~~, or a piece of cake a couple times a month.

Not trying to be rude but I absolutely would. My diet was just like this 95%. It wasn't until I eliminated 100% of offending foods is when I noticed. It really is the food that we are eating causing hair loss ----> not a doubt in my mind. Now, nothing else is needed to fight hair loss beyond diet "IME." The problem is gluten, casein, etc. are addictive and therefore few will ever do this. Interestingly, eating a pizza tastes horrible now.

hope this helps

CausticSymmetry Tue May 18, 2010 3:23 am

On weight gain disease, related to fat, protein and carbohydrate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7FbmdSCjHQ

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4362041487661765149#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lR-iZcONVc

misterE Tue May 18, 2010 5:35 am

jdp701 wrote:
Not trying to be rude but I absolutely would. My diet was just like this 95%. It wasn't until I eliminated 100% of offending foods is when I noticed. It really is the food that we are eating causing hair loss ----> not a doubt in my mind. Now, nothing else is needed to fight hair loss beyond diet "IME." The problem is gluten, casein, etc. are addictive and therefore few will ever do this. Interestingly, eating a pizza tastes horrible now.

hope this helps

Right.

Animal protein increases "free" IGF-1.
"Free" IGF-1 decreases SHBG.
Decreased SHBG allows testosterone to convert into estrogen and DHT.

If you ask me, the reason why western countries tend to bald is because of our rich diet, we eat foods that were once only available to royalty. It's quite clear that if you look at countries that have a plant-based-diet they have no atherosclerosis, obesity, diabetes, cancer or baldness...but if you look at more developed countries where their diet is based on more animal products and processed foods, you see those diseases, you also see children entering puberty faster and faster...why is this? Because the American diet has so much growth stimulating foods like milk and animal protein that it literally makes children age faster.

blackjack Tue May 18, 2010 6:09 am

animal products and processed foods

sugar is the culprit, not animal products...

in fact here in america we eat less animal fats now than 100 years ago.
same as in Okinawan. traditionally they ate much more goat meat and goat milk and much more fat than modern okinawans..

fat consumption has declined by heaps in the last several decades. sugar and vegetables oil consumption have sky rocketed.

note you will never find a vegan or fat free society. keep that in mind.

thissucks Tue May 18, 2010 8:08 am

misterE wrote:
If you ask me, the reason why western countries tend to bald is because of our rich diet, we eat foods that were once only available to royalty. It's quite clear that if you look at countries that have a plant-based-diet they have no atherosclerosis, obesity, diabetes, cancer or baldness...but if you look at more developed countries where their diet is based on more animal products and processed foods, you see those diseases, you also see children entering puberty faster and faster...why is this? Because the American diet has so much growth stimulating foods like milk and animal protein that it literally makes children age faster.

I'm not sure how true this is. Let me tell you, I just recently went to an Indian music festival for a class (I was the only white person there), and at least half the men there were bald or balding. Now I don't know exactly what they eat, but I don't believe they consume much meat or milk. When I worked at Pizza Hut, for example, just about every Indian that ever came in the place ordered a vegetarian pizza.

CausticSymmetry Tue May 18, 2010 8:13 am

India has one of the highest rates of diabetes and also the worst of the complications, since they often use cheap oils like cottonseed.

The Australian Aborigines eat a diet that was over 70% protein and less than 25 carbohydrate, baldness was extremely rare, even in the very old.

misterE Tue May 18, 2010 9:26 am

blackjack wrote:
animal products and processed foods

fat consumption has declined by heaps in the last several decades. sugar and vegetables oil consumption have sky rocketed.

No, not the amount, just the percentage. Percentages are misleading because it makes thing look like fat has decreased when in fact it has increased, the reason why the percentage of fat has decreased is because we eat a lot more sugar since say 1950, thus the percentage of fat has decreased because the percentage of sugar and processed foods like soda-pop and candy has increased.

misterE Tue May 18, 2010 9:33 am

CausticSymmetry wrote:India has one of the highest rates of diabetes and also the worst of the complications, since they often use cheap oils like cottonseed.

Right.

Vegetable oils including the "heat healthy" olive oil are devastating to your health because when you heat these oils you create millions of free radicals, which cause inflammation. Inflammation is one of the triggering factors in diabetes (and baldness). So it is no wonder that many Indian's are balding if they fry food in oil. Also all those oils probably increase sebaceous gland activity and contribute to atherosclerosis, a disease that correlates with MPB.

blackjack Tue May 18, 2010 1:53 pm

Carbohydrate intake (less than mainland Japan, ALL GLUTEN-LESS):
--sweet potato
--rice
--mochi (sticky rice dessert)
--buckwheat noodles
--raw goat milk (alkaline, more similar casein profile to human milk)

Here are some 'secret' foods from this ancient society:
-- goya (twice the vitamin C as citrus) Okinawan version of Chinese bitter melon known to lower blood glucoses and inflammation; the above pictured dish goya chanpuru is a staple (goya, eggs, pork, lard, bonita shaved taurine/fish)
--nigari (more Magnesium and Calcium than trad'l tofu)
--sweet potatoes (anti-inflammatory, rich in carotenoids and hormone precursors)
--fish fish fish seafood seafood seafood (taurine, iodine, omega-3s, carotenoids, krill oil, astaxanthin)
--GOAT MEAT stewed and raw/sashimi which is considered a delicacy
--GOAT MILK
--LARD LARD LARD (anti-inflammatory, lowers sdLDL-particles and %-sdLDL, increases particle buoyancy like other saturated fatty acids like lauric acid)
--BOAR PORK BOAR PORK BOAR PORK (pork belly, stews, stock, etc)
--fermented fish sauce (source of vitamins B12, K2, MKs) Ishiru/squid, Ishiru/sardine, Shozzuru (pickled juices of mackerel-sardines-anchovies)
-- red tofu (fermented source of vitamin K2 MKs)
--seaweed (iodine, marine minerals and antioxidants like FUCOIDAN/ fucoxanthin )

OKINAWAN SAMPLE MENU

rafuti -- chunks of pork stewed in awamori, soy sauce and miso

sooki -- pork stewed with bone sookibuni-- spareribs, usually flavored with salt, lemon, and/or ginger

minudaru-- pork stewed and flavored with sesame

nakami-jiru or nakami no suimono -- pork tripe soup

ashi-tibichi -- stewed pig's feet

mimigaa -- pig's ear in vinegar

deekuni -- daikon radish and pork stew

kuubuirichi -- konbu (seaweed) and pork stew

hiijaa sashimi -- raw goat meat

hiijaa-jiru -- goat meat in soup

chanpuru -- stir-fry with eggs, leeks and/or tofu

goya chanpuru -- chanpuru stir-fry with goya (bitter gourd)

maaminaa chanpuru -- tofu and bean sprout stir-fry

soomin chanpuru -- chanpuru with soomen noodles

nakami irichi -- pork tripe and miso stir-fry

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"The report cited 100-year-old Ms Shizu Miyagi, who retains her traditional diet and... “often invites friends home to share a lunch of stewed pork leg, potatoes, rice and red beans."

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in 1936, 150,000 goats were raised in Okinawa and goat meat consumption made up about 25% of all livestock meat. However in recent years the numbers have been decreasing(since 1975)and farmers switch there diet from green grass to grain to meet up with demand causing a bad tasting meat. A lot of okinawans dont like goat meat anymore.

http://ir.lib.u-ryukyu.ac.jp/bitstream/123456789/3862/1/KJ00000161642.pdf

http://www.virtualokinawa.com/about_okinawa/food/

valderama Wed May 19, 2010 7:18 am

the trouble i have with this argument is that when you see peoples that have traditionally eaten large quantities of meat you see people with amazing complexions and fine heads of hair. the various artic peoples seem to do very well eating seal, whale and fish. i believe that native americans ate little in the way of carbs and plenty of buffalo and fish and rarely suffered baldness. i once saw a programme on a siberian people who retained a fairly traditional diet all had fine heads of hair except one guy who had a big belly, a poor complexion and thinning hair. the programme filmed in his house and there was his wife busily baking cakes and the guy patted his belly and remarked my wife likes to bake. also it seems to me whenever you see people moving away from their traditional diets to a more western, high carb diet you see western diseases increase. even in merry old england at the early part of the 20 th century when people cooked with lard, ate plenty of meat and smoked heart disease was extremely rare. as vegetable oils, carbs and sugar increased in the diet heart disease increased dramatically. i have also read that low fat diets tend to result in higher cancer rates. it just seems to me that all this stacks up to be too much of a coincidence. i could be wrong though there are many here who are far more knowledgeable in this area than i.

CausticSymmetry Wed May 19, 2010 8:09 am

valderama - I couldn't agree with you more.

misterE Wed May 19, 2010 10:26 am

valderama wrote: i have also read that low fat diets tend to result in higher cancer rates.

Will you tell us where you found this or where you read this?

misterE Wed May 19, 2010 10:58 am

I think people are ignoring what the scientific studies say on how diet affects hormones.
A study has shown that a high fat diet increase "free" testosterone and estrogen levels [1]. While another study showed that a low-fat/high-fiber diet decreases "free" testosterone [2]. Studies have also shown that animal protein increases serum IGF-1 while plant protein does not [3] [4]. Serum IGF-1 is shown to decrease SHBG [5] [6] [7]. And we all know (I hope) what happens when SHBG is lowered! So before we go on (with this thread) can anyone debate this?

[1] Effects of dietary fat and fiber on plasma and urine androgens and estrogens in men: a controlled feeding study.

[2] Low-fat high-fiber diet decreased serum and urine androgens in men.

[3] Long-term effects of calorie or protein restriction on serum IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 concentration in humans.

[4] Relationship of Dietary Protein and Soy Isoflavones to Serum IGF-1 and IGF Binding Proteins in the Prostate Cancer Lifestyle Trial

[5] Endogenous sex hormones and prostate cancer: a collaborative analysis of 18 prospective studies.

[6] Plasma Adiponectin Levels and Endometrial Cancer Risk in Pre- and Postmenopausal Women.

[7] Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization.

Espio Wed May 19, 2010 11:46 am

misterE wrote:I think people are ignoring what the scientific studies say on how diet affects hormones.
A study has shown that a high fat diet increase "free" testosterone and estrogen levels [1]. While another study showed that a low-fat/high-fiber diet decreases "free" testosterone [2]. Studies have also shown that animal protein increases serum IGF-1 while plant protein does not [3] [4]. Serum IGF-1 is shown to decrease SHBG [5] [6] [7]. And we all know (I hope) what happens when SHBG is lowered! So before we go on (with this thread) can anyone debate this?

[1] Effects of dietary fat and fiber on plasma and urine androgens and estrogens in men: a controlled feeding study.

[2] Low-fat high-fiber diet decreased serum and urine androgens in men.

[3] Long-term effects of calorie or protein restriction on serum IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 concentration in humans.

[4] Relationship of Dietary Protein and Soy Isoflavones to Serum IGF-1 and IGF Binding Proteins in the Prostate Cancer Lifestyle Trial

[5] Endogenous sex hormones and prostate cancer: a collaborative analysis of 18 prospective studies.

[6] Plasma Adiponectin Levels and Endometrial Cancer Risk in Pre- and Postmenopausal Women.

[7] Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization.

MisterE, with respect, the second study you reference you made seems to contradict with some of the other studies. You say that the second study shows that a low-fat/high-fiber diet decreases free testosterone, but when I read it the study says that the low fat diet decreased all hormone values... including total testosterone and SHBG bound testosterone!!!

After diet modulation, mean serum testosterone (T) concentration fell (P < 0.0001), accompanied by small but significant decreases in serum free T (P = 0.0045), 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (P = 0.0053), and adrenal androgens (androstendione, P = 0.0135; dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, P = 0.0011). Serum estradiol and SHBG showed smaller decreases.

So if I am trying to raise SHBG, increase total testosterone, and decrease free testosterone, how can i know that a low-fat diet would work? The other studies are promising however, but this particulary study makes it look worse than a high fat diet.

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