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OT: mental illness from heavy metals?

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diffuse
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Post  Paradox Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:41 pm

I'm curious if anyone has experienced any signs of mental illness due to what they believe is heavy metal toxicity? I'm looking for anecdotal evidence that mental illness can be reversed after heavy metals are removed from the body. Anyone?

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Post  CausticSymmetry Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:55 am

Paradox - I had an ex-girlfriend who asked me several years ago the following question: She asked, "Is there a link between dental amalgams and depression and anxiety?"

At the time there wasn't much in the way of any medical writings on the subject, however there were certainly practioners who were already treating this as the link has been suspected for quite a long time.

Take mercury poisoning for instance, it is associated wtih hypoglycemia, hypothyroidism, it alters the intestinal flora, insomnia, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue.

Depression is usually from adrenal or thyroid imbalance.

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Post  diffuse Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:20 am

*long, slightly rambling post alert*

I may have a connected anecdote, it's quite long, take it for what it's worth. I was a very bright, happy kid with no real worries. At age 11 1/2, although still happy, I started having occasional depressive thoughts. No real reason for them that I could figure out, and later I guess I just thought it was the onset of puberty that triggered them. However, these intensified throughout adolescence (irritability, insomnia, poor concentration, the odd suicidal thought), coming and going, having a major effect on school life, relationships etc. I tried to go to Uni but dropped out after a year; although I didn't fail I felt no motivation or drive whatsoever.

Things stabilised for quite a while after that, I kind of accepted that I was never going to achieve an awful lot career-wise when I had such low stress tolerance. Although my physical health had always been ok, I also started doing more exercise, which improved my mood. For various reasons (low income being one) I didn't go to the dentist for a very long time.

Just over a month ago I had my first dental treatment in a decade, a filling replacement. Throughout March I felt terrible mentally, so bad that I actually wrote to my sister to try and help me, something I'd never done before. At the time, before I found this site, I didn't know that having an amalgam removed at a regular dentist was dangerous - so no placebo effect was possible, I didn't even consider it. I've since checked the times of the treatment and the email to my sister (in which I sound strangely panicky) and personally feel like it is a "smoking gun" for mercury poisoning of some sort - less than two days apart.

I know this doesn't prove it conclusively, but amalgams might well have been my problem all along. I can't remember the exact dates from back then, but I'm virtually certain they went in gradually somewhere between ages 10-13. If it's true, I think I'm still too shocked to be angry. For now I seem to have got over the worst of the filling removal (supplements seemed to help). At the moment this is where the story ends, but maybe once I get down to tackling the problem I will be able to provide the reversal story you were looking for!

I also found a few anecdotes on this site: www.mercurymadness.org

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Post  kijumn Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:37 am

As another note, I have never had any success reversing neurological symptoms doing chelation therapy. And I have done DMPS IVs, DMSA, DMSA/ALA (although I do not tolerate this), ALA by itself which gave me such anxiety I could not continue, NDF, NDF plus, glutathione IVs, nebulizing glutathione, Metals Factors, Porprazyne (http://www.funimky.com/downloads/ALL%20ABOUT%20PORPHYRAZYME.pdf)
oral EDTA, 53 bottles of NCD!, four bottles of ACZ zeolite, tons of chlorella, chitosan, PCA-RX, TD-DMPS, Metal Free, 18 g bottle of OSR which gave me explosive Candida, plus all kinds of other mineral loading therapies based on the Klinghardt philosophy that mineral replacement is one of the keys recovery. So I have nebulized magnesium, taken umpteen mineral replacement products... all to no avail. Constantly taking antifungal therapies, which don't seem to do much of anything... sat in an infrared sauna for a year... plastered on a jug of Ancient Minerals... this is a partial list!

And yet a single phlebotomy [blood donation] has done more than any of the above.

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-9480-255-days0-orderasc-.html
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Post  Paradox Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:23 am

diffuse,

Thanks for that detailed story. I had almost an identical experience around age 10-11. I was also a happy kid. In my case I don't have any amalgams, but I did just test high in lead and mercury using 500mg of dmsa to 'provoke' the metal. I wouldn't be surprised at all if you experienced a spike in mercury which lead to your symptoms increasing. Have you done chelation therapy? Have you lowered your levels successfully?


Jdp,

Awesome, thanks- but I'm not following the connection between iron and mercury/lead, or MS? Did you author that? I see pyroluria is mentioned in that thread. I have been interested in pyroluria in the past, and unfortunately I don't have money to pay for a hair analysis for copper. Can you explain the connection between phlebotomy and mercury/lead, as well as your thoughts on pyroluria. All the info is overwhelming to try and make sense of. I just want this mental stuff to abate. Niacin is mentioned, and I seem to do well on niacinamide. It seems like my doctor is taking all the direction from me because she doesn't know a lot about this stuff. I suspect she doesn't subscribe to any truth in pyroluria either. What should I do when I can't afford a broad array of tests? How do I know where to look, or when to stop looking and just treat the symptoms? My symtoms: adrenal fatigue, lead/mercury, low cholesterol, anxiety/depression/obsessive thought, estrogen dominance. Gabanergic system seems to be messed up- alcohol, benzos, ghb, niacinamide, etc. seem to work wonders. Thanks

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Post  kijumn Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:31 am

Hey Paradox,

I'm not the author of that quote. I found that quote via google.

In short what I'm trying to say is that heavy metals chelation is very expensive. When chelating heavy metals you have to keep in mind the cost. Humifulvate, iodine, etc. is good because of this. However, don't forget about donating blood ... also works better than diet regarding insulin resistance based on one study.

Blood donation gets very little mention but is something that I believe everyone should be doing if you have health problems, hair loss, etc.. Of course there is diet but I've posted about this is in the past regarding MSG ---> adrenal fatigue ... not to mention hypothyroid, etc..

Zinc and selenium is an antagonist for mercury. Those sensitive to gluten have low zinc levels. Crops are depleted of selenium unlike just a couple decades ago. Just two problems leading to mercury toxicity besides amalgams.

With aluminum in the water supply to make water clear, aspartame, food colorings, etc. causing aluminum toxicity in people ---> low boron levels. With magnesium deficiency being common. Low K2. These are co-factors for Vitamin D.

A quote from CS = "Optimizing vitamin D levels is the cheapest and simplest ways to fix generalized forms of AF (severe forms of course will need more than that)."

Another quote

In this case, 'cofactor' simply means another nutrient that's required for the efficient production and use of vitamin D. They include:
Magnesium
Zinc
Vitamin K2
Vitamin A
Boron

Here's a good article on heavy metal toxicity that I've posted before.

http://www.cqs.com/toxicmetals.htm


Anyway, back to the subject. The author that I quoted in the previous quote does have MS but is heavy metal and iron toxic. His quote essentially says blood donation worked the best ... and sounds like he's tried everything. Here's another one of his quotes

"Phlebotomy Is the First Thing That Has Ever Made a Difference in Reversing Neurological Functioning!!!"

Back to adrenal fatigue, this has been posted before but is good info


A low adrenal function can appear like an excessively high thyroid function (e.g., both may be thin, nervous, have palpitations, be pale, have unstable temperatures etc). A low thyroid function may appear as high adrenal function (e.g., both may appear heavier than expected, have a reddish facial complexion, have stable temperatures, be or appear calm etc).

If poor thyroid function is the only cause, we typically see a reddish complexion, thinning of the outer eyebrows, easy weight gain, depression, sluggishness, excessive sleep, high blood pressure, and a decreased ability to fight infection. Conversely, if poor adrenal function is the only cause, we typically see pallor, full eyebrows, difficulty gaining weight (if the problem is severe), difficulty losing weight (if the problem is moderate), anxiety, exaggerated startle reflex, insomnia and un-refreshing sleep, low blood pressure, allergies and auto-immune problems. Most people have a mixture of poor thyroid and poor adrenal function rather than purely one or the other, and therefore a mixture of symptoms.


http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-therapy

hope this helps
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Post  Guest Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:35 am

JDP -

Why is it good to donate blood for health and hair loss?

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Post  kijumn Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:07 pm

Iron is a strong oxidant.

Blood donation is a heavy metal and iron chelator.

If you have have problems with your brain, I would definitely donate blood without hesitation if you can't get relief by other methods.

If you can't get yourself to a blood donation site, then I'd buy these leaches ... although I've never tried it. http://www.leeches.biz/buy-leeches.htm


Iron overload and storage in vital body organs can damage and may cause:

chronic fatigue (the most common complaint by patients);
cirrhosis/cancer of the liver (with or without a history of alcohol use);
arthritis/joint pain;
impotence/sterility/infertility; early menopause/irregular menses;
hair loss; hair thinning
diabetes (bronze diabetes, a darkening, graying of the skin not caused by sun exposure);
cancer (cancer thrives on iron); (especially primary liver cancer)
abdominal pain/swelling;
weight loss;
frequent colds/flu/infections, compromised immune system;
headaches;
hypothyroidism; (low thyroid)
heart irregularities/heart failure/heart attack (especially in younger men);
cirrhosis of the liver (with or without a history of alcohol use);
hepatoma/liver cancer (the leading cause of death in HH);
premature death.

http://www.americanhs.org/faq.htm
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Post  kijumn Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:34 pm

A good quote

I would also like to emphasize however, that there is no way on earth that anyone can tell you how much iron you have stored in your organs are in your bones or in your brain... there is no way that they can measure total body burden of metals, any metal... most metals do not stay in the bloodstream... even with hemochromatosis, there will only be 250 mg of blood per 500 mL, the blood cannot contain loads of extra iron, that is physiologically impossible... everybody's blood is going to contain about the same amount of iron, and if we have been "iron loading", that extra iron is going to be secreted into the organs/bones/CNS... but there is no way on earth any person or any Dr. will be able to tell you what quantity has been stored... whether it is 5 g for 10 g or 50 g
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Post  Guest Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 am

CS and JDP-

Would you say that things like bipolar, schizophrenia, and learning disorders like dyslexia are all from heavy metals?

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Post  tooyoung Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:28 am

Jdp-

Is iron bad for you? Everyone recommends eating iron rich food or taking iron supps 2 weeks before giving blood, is this wrong?

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Post  kijumn Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:29 am

tooyoung,

Yes, most men should avoid iron supplements.

1....,

They aren't all from heavy metals. CausticSymmetry is much more knowledgeable but some additional causes are corn, dairy, gluten, soy, genetically modified foods, food colorings, MSG, lectins, nano-food, vitamin and mineral deficiencies, etc..
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Post  CausticSymmetry Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:46 pm

1.... - Conditions such as bipolar, schizophrenia, and learning disorders like dyslexia are not all exclusively from heavy metals.

There are other causes, namely toxins of a non-metal nature that disrupt physiological pathways, or from congenital development due to fetal conditions (what did the mother eat). Differences in receptor sensitivity concerning vitamin pathways, enzymes that affect neurotransmitter balance.

Toxoplasmosis can cause schizophrenia for instance. A cat can scratch its fecal matter into you that contains that toxin and later on it can manifest into schizophrenia.

Many of these conditions can be inherited, most likely due to nutritional deficiencies or environmental factors created.

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Post  diffuse Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:00 pm

Paradox - I'm very new to this, so have done no official testing or proper chelation yet. I actually discovered this site while trying to figure out what was going on. However, I can say that upping my dose of vitamin D was the first thing I tried and it did seem to help. I've since added magnesium and selenium, since my guess is that I'll be low in those. The current plan I have is to tackle the main source of the problem (amalgams) and then try to gently chelate/detox as much as I can.

I have a question about mercury/ heavy metal tests. What are the best ones for before and after amalgam removal? It has been suggested to me to get a Melisa test, which seems to determine metal sensitivity but won't actually tell me the levels I have.

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Post  diffuse Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:04 pm

Oh and I may well start giving blood again - it's a good thing to do anyway (socially), and if it benefits my health that's a bonus.

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Post  Paradox Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:29 pm

diffuse,

That's good that the vit D is helping. You want to make sure that your amalgams are out for a good 30 days before you do chelation. I'm not sure what the best test is, but I did mine through directlabs.com. I did the 'heavy metal urine' test using 500mg of DMSA to 'provoke' the metals. If you don't provoke them a urine test will only show very recent exposure. Hair testing should go back a ways but is controversial. I bought the DMSA from iherb.com- 'captomer'. Directlabs uses Doctor's Data Labs (that is who the the test is through). I was well pleased with them, and I've seen others that have used them as well online through their doctors. No doctor is required though. I tested high in mercury and lead and have never had an amalgam filling. When chelating it's good to us minerals like you mention. Selenium, mag, zinc, etc. Schizophrenia responds well to zinc and b6. It's recommended to get 50mg of b6 twice a day, and 50-100mg of zinc a day while chelating. I have used the protocol by andy Cutler to chelate so far (alpha lipoic acid and DMSA) and have some humifulvate on the way which is more affordable.

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Post  Paradox Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:50 pm

Here's a case study of neurological problems reversed with IV EDTA in a patient with documented mercury exposure:

The usefulness of chelation therapy for the remission of symptoms caused by previous treatment with mercury-containing pharmaceuticals: a case report

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Post  Paradox Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:56 pm

Just found the pdf version of that: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2783151/pdf/1757-1626-2-199.pdf

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Post  gregslater Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:12 pm

Paradox,

Did you do all your testing after all the amalgams were removed, or a before and after? I really would like to do testing before, during (as I can't remove them all at once), and after. But I'm concerned that some of the ways to test (such as with DMSA) might not be a good idea while I still have amalgams.

My first removal appoint is next week, so testing beforehand is likely out. And by that first appointment I will have been on MCC and humifulvate (and the other stuff in Metal Shield) for over a week too.
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Post  Paradox Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:55 pm

gregslater wrote:Paradox,

Did you do all your testing after all the amalgams were removed, or a before and after? I really would like to do testing before, during (as I can't remove them all at once), and after. But I'm concerned that some of the ways to test (such as with DMSA) might not be a good idea while I still have amalgams.

My first removal appoint is next week, so testing beforehand is likely out. And by that first appointment I will have been on MCC and humifulvate (and the other stuff in Metal Shield) for over a week too.

No, you don't want to do a provoked urine test while they're still in your mouth. I'd just wait until they are all out and test then. You'll no-doubt have detectable levels at that time and you can gauge progress from there. You can always do hair mineral testing, but I'd prefer the urine personally for gauging progress. I've had hair done too, which is useful for essential metals like copper, as well as the toxic ones. Although I think I remember reading somehwere that inorganic mercury doesn't show up in hair minerals, but organic from fish will.

I've actually never had any fillings, so my exposure must have come prenatally, from fish, from recreational/Rx drugs, or from vaccines. I've had braces and metal retainers as a kid, but it just occurred to me today to consider them.

My gut feeling and reading says that humifulvate and MCP are weak chelators which need to be taken for long periods of time, so they aren't going to make much of a difference for testing. Once you start chelating you'll realize that this is a long process and most likely expriment with a bunch of different agents. Because I have no fillings I wanted to make sure of my levels, but you literally just have it in your teeth, so don't stress too much on the tests.

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Post  tooyoung Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:54 am

CS - I'm strongly considering donating blood, I think I asked you about a year ago how long it should be and I think you said wait until I am about mid 20's.

Is there any risk or problems going earlier?

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Post  CausticSymmetry Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:22 am

I understand the minimum age is usually 16, however I am not exactly certain how safe it is.

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Post  tooyoung Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:04 pm

Okay, I think I'll do it at least once for the metal chelation aspect and see how it goes.

Is iron in meat such as steak a problem? If I'm not taking lipoic acid.

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Post  hapyman Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:16 am

There was a recent article on Mercola's site about iron that was pretty interesting. Basically what he was saying is that the only detrimental iron was free iron. It was for women's health but I am sure its similar in men. What he said was that certain environmental toxins, such as aluminum, free the typically bounded form of iron, which then causes all kinds of havoc such as inflammation.
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