Topical Vit K2 and maximum dose?

What is the safe upper limit of this supplement?


what are peoples thoughts on a topical application to deal with calcification?

thelibrarian,

the daily dosage is between 70 µg / 80 µg Vitamin K2 each day.
Add some Vitamin D3 (20 µg -25 µg).

Sorry,

didn't recognize the headline.
Don't know what's the max dose applied as a topical.

My lack of clarity there! You are right. I am curious about maximum internal dose AND what people think about the potential decalcification using a topical. Thanks for your response Crusher. BTW, how many micrograms approx. I dont really understand the figures you gave.

thelibrarian - There's is no upper limit established for vitamin K2. It would be cost prohibitive to reach that level if it were to be determined however. So, that said as much as you want.

Thanks for your reply CS. Do you think that large doses of K2 reverse calcification? Would a topical application have an impact on local calcification? Really interested in your thoughts! thanks

thelibrarian - There are virtually no studies on topical vitamin K2, only on topical K1.

To optimize decalcification there are six elements, plenty of Omega-3 (diffuses calcium), magnesium, Vitamin D, removing heavy metals, internal vitamin K2, and nullifying pathogenic bacteria.

thelibrarian,

I thought about it and I'm going to try this along my hairline and cross my fingers.

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Enhancement-Dr-Jonathan-Wright-s-ProBone-O-Drops-Plus-2-fl-oz-60-ml/9531?at=0

Awesome find jdp! thanks ! I think i will take that internally and externally. What do you think a fair trail period would be- 6 months - a year?

CausticSymmetry wrote:thelibrarian - There are virtually no studies on topical vitamin K2, only on topical K1.

To optimize decalcification there are six elements, plenty of Omega-3 (diffuses calcium), magnesium, Vitamin D, removing heavy metals, internal vitamin K2, and nullifying pathogenic bacteria.

CS, what´s the optimal K2 intake (internally)? Is 45mcg a day enough?

thelibrarian,

what's the idea behind using topical K2?
(As far as I know your bromelain/aloe-mix is working very well).

gonzalito - 45 mcg per day was found to be enough to have much higher bone growth and reduction of arterial calcification.

jdp710 probably found the highest amount of K2 around 15 milligrams (not micro). I'll keep my fingers crossed too.

thelibrarian,

I'm going to wing it and base how long I use for based on scalp sensations.

I'm also going to be taking tin for a long time. I'm also going to be taking benfotiamine and a few others to try and bring my nitric oxide levels back to teenage/early 20 year old levels.

A quote

"Yet the assaults of 17 animal-years of diabetes were
largely reversed by Benfotiamine supplementation,
which restored 62.6% of their blood flow, 74.6% of motor
neuron velocity, and an amazing 91.7% of the sensory
nerve deficit!19

The researchers were also able to show that much of the
restoration of blood flow was the result of a restored
ability of the blood vessels to release nitric oxide (NO), a
key vessel-relaxing chemical messenger."

http://www.aor.ca/assets/Research/pdf/Advances_10_May_2006_A_New_Study_Reveals.pdf

Hey JDP,

Im really interested in the other methods that you are using to increase nitric oxide. I took gigantic doses of L arginine for many years until I started to show early signs of shingle. Periodically I try it to see if I still get those symptoms and until recently I always did. Over the last 10 days or so Iam taking it again with lysine to counterbalance its negative effects. I seem to be ok so far.

I am trying to restore my hormone profile to a more youthful levels. My marker for this is morning wood which since I have turned forty is only periodic- certianly not daily. However, using Arginine with pycnogenol( CS's recomendation from a daily post )lately makes me feel like a teenager again.

I have this suspicion that powerful erections and hair health are correlated. Hair quality being a major sexual signal of vigour and health. So... please let me in on anything that you are doing to increase nitric oxide.

BTW, In addition to the arginine and pycnogenol I use supplements to lower estrogen and increase testosterone

thelibrarian wrote:


BTW, In addition to the arginine and pycnogenol I use supplements to lower estrogen and increase testosterone

Thelibrarian-

what are supplements you're using to lower estro and increase test? Have you found any of them effective till now?

Hey Edony,

To lower estrogen I take calcium d-clucurate , horny goat weed, dehydrated broccolli sprouts and lugols solution. I believe the best way to lower estrogen is to decrease bodyfat and when i get mine down to 10% I will drop these supplements.

To normalize testosterone I take tribilus and zinc

Hey thelibrarian,

First, I wanted to say your other thread detailing your regimen is great. I hope people implement what you are doing and spend more than 20 seconds reading your thread as there is a lot of great info in it.

To answer your question about nitric oxide, I believe nitric oxide is underrated in regards to our health. I can usually tell how well my health is just via nitric oxide ... as in morning wood, skin tone/color and how fast cuts heal, bacterial infections, etc.. The pics of what CS posts in his daily blog are all of women with very high levels of nitric oxide IMO/IME.

Anyway, to answer your question first let me say combating Lp (a) might help to raise nitric oxide. I experimented with a whole bunch of things months ago and my favorite due to cost and how well it works is taking 120 mg or more of Iodide with "a little" bit of niacin (the flush kind). A link for more info. For me, I don't believe it needs to be taken everyday and while there isn't much research regarding Lp (a) reduction I believe it will work. Most of the supplements that are talked about on this forum should also lower Lp (a) too but can become costly. The Iodide/niacin is extremely cheap and probably extremely effective.

I'm also going to experiment with very large doses of benfotiamine and then taper down to lower doses and see how well that goes for endothelial dysfunction to raise nitric oxide per my earlier quote. I'm "hoping" this is more the vehicle that will maintain nitric oxide without having to worry about supplements to boost nitric oxide.

For nitric oxide production itself, I occasionally take citrulline which does an OK job and also take a little arginine when needing a larger boost. Arginine might increase inflammation though so becareful with your hair. If your hair is sufferering you might want to lower dosage or eliminate arginine.

I basically follow what CausticSymmetry mentions about raising nitric oxide levels and also what Dr. Ignarro's mentions as well. Here is a quote from Dr. Ignarro

"L-citrulline is of critical importance because of its synergistic role with L-arginine in the production of Nitric Oxide, or NO. L-citrulline is actually a by-product in the production of NO and is recycled by the body to make more L-arginine to form NO. This “recycling” action is further enhanced because L-citrulline and L-arginine reach cells by different paths, resulting in broader support for NO production. L-taurine has been shown to strengthen the heart muscle, and as an antioxidant, it protects NO during its brief lifetime."

http://www.shopherbalife.com/ecm/article/article.jsp?category=targeted_nutrition&pageId=1146695520935:en_US

"Supplemental arginine doesn’t enter cells readily unless it is combined
with L-citrulline, another amino acid"

http://www.drignarro.com/NOArticle.pdf

I also take taurine for MSG but never noticed a difference with nitric oxide. Free glutamic acid/MSG lowers taurine in the body. The more free glutamic acid in the diet (which is basically zero nowadays) the more taurine I'll take.


I'll also take others to raise nitric oxide as well. Magnesium chloride I believe is very underrated. With low magnesium levels you get trapped in the NO/OHNOO cycle which in the long run will lower nitric oxide levels. Magnesium chlroide will also raise nitric oxide levels.

A quote from Magnesiumforlife

"It is known that magnesium causes nitric oxide
independent coronary artery vasodilation in humans.270 Magnesium is thought
to behave like a calcium channel blocker at the cellular level thus helps to
maintain the elasticity of our arteries. Magnesium prevents the deposition of
calcium along the arterial wall at points of micro-injury, which is the crucial
role it plays in the prevention of both atherosclerosis and arteriosclerosis."

I'm also big on magnesium "chloride" because of raising of DHEA levels. A quote

"Dr. Norm Shealy, who has tested the transdermal/topical method against oral
and intravenous applications, asserts that only through the transdermal form are
DHEA levels raised."

Buying Nigari would be the cheap way of getting magnesium chloride.

Magnesium will also raise acetylcholine levels. Acetylcholine being what Prague brought up recently.

Anyway, there are others too such as Ecklonia Cava Extract being good for nitric oxide which I take occasionally. Grapeseed extract which is the cheaper alternative of Pycnogenol. Grapeseed extract I've taken for 10 - 15 years previously to keep allergies in check and I'm 100% positive that it slows aging extremely well ... also helps maintain hyaluronic acid levels and boosts nitric oxide like Pycnogenol.

A little bit of exercise is also "extremely" important for nitric oxide IME.

I also focus on hyaluronic acid as well which "might" boost nitric oxide IME if taking large doses and with enough water. While I don't take hyaluronic acid directly anymore as I'm sensitive to it, I take occasionally glucosamine with chondroitin which will raise hyaluronic acid, and grapeseed extract and heavy metal chelation helps maintain hyaluronic acid.

There is also celery seed extract which I believe raises nitric oxide IME.

Also, laser blood irradiation/LLLT boost nitric oxide.

Also, thyroid is important IME. My highly restrictive diet normalized 100% my hypothyroid. It wasn't bad before but when I stopped eating the lectins I was sensitive to my thyroid went to 100%.

The stuff that lowers nitric oxide levels significantly IME is a sedentary lifestyle and free glutamic acid and not drinking enough water.

hope this helps

JDP, thank you so much for this response. As always it is extremely helpful. When I look at how much you and CS have influenced my regimen, well, its staggering! You are the best!
I will be implementing all your suggestions

Re: laser irradiation. I have not done this for about a month because my diodes keep breaking at the wire. do you have this problem?
BTW, I bought the citriline yesterday. My Vit K drops came today. An amazing dosage strength. I dont think I will apply it topically because of the sweetness of the "natural flavour/colour". Dont want sugar on my scalp! What do you think?

Regardless, I am definitely loading this stuff for a year. The research indicates that it not only prevents but also reverse calcification.

here is an interesting quote:BALDNESS AND CALCIFICATION OF THE "IVORY DOME"
Frederick Hoelzel
Chicago


J Am Med Assoc. 1942;119(12):968.


Since this article does not have an abstract, we have provided the first 150 words of the full text PDF and any section headings.




To the Editor:—

Some questions concerning baldness which were raised by Dr. Ballenger's comments in THE JOURNAL, June 27, may be answered by observations which I made while serving as technician in gross anatomy at the College of Medicine of the University of Illinois (1916-1917). I then had occasion to remove the brains of about 80 cadavers for separate use in the neurology classes and incidentally noted a seemingly obvious relation between the blood (vessel) supply to the scalp and the quantity of hair. Baldness occurred in persons in whom calcification of the skull bones apparently had not only firmly knitted the cranial sutures but also closed or narrowed various small foramens through which blood vessels pass, most prominently in persons with a luxuriant crop of hair. These blood vessels are mainly veins which normally communicate with the diploic veins in the spongy tissue of the skull bones but which . . . [Full Text PDF of this Article]








"

Thanks thelibrarian. I appreciate it!

About the wires being pulled out of the circuit board ... when I was building different laser helmet designs I noticed that some batches of lasers the black heat shrink tubing covering the circuit board wasn't as tight as others and would make it easier for the wire to be pulled out of the circuit board. What I did was used a soldiering iron to tighten up the black heat shrink tubing on some of the lasers and that solved the problem while being careful not to touch anything else. Now it's much harder to pull the wires out.

If you still have a problem you can always order another kind of laser with a different housing that such as this

The housing it much larger but still can fit in your nose. It would also be nearly impossible to accidentally pull the wires out. They also have 10 mW ones that I'm going to try eventually but they cost more.

The k2 is also good stuff. I've used low doses, the same one that CS uses with D3 and I notice when I stop taking the stuff that my heels become calloused. I can also tell by my hands and my face as well. Anyway, I haven't received mine yet as it usually takes a week to get my packages due to UPS but my scalp is pretty much bulletproof so for me there shouldn't be a problem about the natural flavor ingredient in the K2. That is, as long as it doesn't stain my scalp, lol.

About the citrulline, here's a good study

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/natural-hair-regrowth-forum-f1/treatment-with-l-arginine-and-l-citrulline-with-antioxidants-prevents-high-glucose-induced-cellular-senescence-t1897.htm

Would that liquid K2 be something worth adding to something like my overnight enzyme/urea topical? Is there any way the K2 might work in synergy with the papain/bromelain, or would it be better used alone if used at all?

I am using it as a seperate topical. Personally I am using the bromelain for a maximum of one hour every other day. I have used the k2 as a topical twice and am already noting an impact on some hard lumps on my forehead!

Let me know how the K2 topical is going. I started this week My concern is that it helps strengthens bones/skull and I don't want to make my skull any stronger or larger than it is.

Do you feel that the skull hardening and slightly expanding is part of our problem? Since women have less bone density then men, is that part of why their hair stays intact on the skull?

I'm not sold on the skull expansion theory, but if there's even a percentage or chance that the skull/bone density has something to do with it, I don't want to increase that.

Any ideas?

thelibrarian - Interesting article, thanks for providing that. I look forward to any results you may get on the topical K2, it's definitely a novel concept.

hi CS, happy to contribute my little bit!

Whip
Re: skull expansion theory- I really didnt buy into that. The evidence seemed flimsy. The fact and influence of calcifications is so much more substantiated. So dealing with that by way of k2 makes sense to me. If my skull gets bigger I will definitely report that.

BTW, the concern with skull expansion is tightening of the scalp and loss of blood flow, right. Since my msm( another anti-calcification supplement)applications my scalp is getting really pliable( could be the lasers,etc as well)