Topical Spironolactone

I decided to try Dr. Lee's topical spiro for the second time--I had bought it once before (years ago), but was too afraid to use it and eventually threw it out during a drug cabinet purge.

The up side:

For the first application, it was towards the end of the day, I had just worked out and my hair and scalp was pretty sweaty. Even under these conditions, it absorbed well, and i noticed an immediate result: hair felt stronger, like you could tug it really hard, sebum was neutralized. This effect remained consistent for the following applications and matches my experience of topical estrogen, so the assertion that it converts DHT to estrogen locally is probably correct. In short, it is probably one of the best topicals I have used and could see it completely halting loss, perhaps offering some regrowth.

The down side:

That night after the first application, I woke up at 4am, completely wired: I knew I wasn't going to get back to bed. The next day, after showering, I applied it again and realized that my heart was out of control, the sensation can best be described as doing a bump of coke. (Since spiro lowers blood pressure, the heart racing makes sense.) That night, i skipped the night dose and was able to sleep. The next morning, same disturbing effect. By afternoon, I applied a little more and decided to work out. The heat from the work out ended up drawing it all in my system. My work out was strong, but at the end, I had to piss, which never happens to me after heavy perspiration. By the time I got home, I was sick with all the sides listed for spiro, except gyno (nausea, pissing a lot, bloated stomach, etc). Hair looked good though.

In short: I'm dropping it due to sides. Azelex remains my safe topical of choice while not as effective.

Perhaps you should dilute it a tad?

What about topical finasteride then?

I didn't think Spiro was absorbed systematically. Bummer, you make it sound good though with the coke comparison.

p.s. Maybe get the 2% version?

Petch--yes, it is a bummer, particularly since it seemed to work well.

Misirilou--Yes, there are perhaps a dozen adjustments that could perhaps minimize sides. But that will be for others to try. Regarding topical fin, I am confident that will be absorbed systemically and have zero interest in trying it.

This is insane to me. Two things:
1- You can't evaluate a product's effectiveness after only two applications based only on shedding (hairs you shed have been in telogen for months anyways)
2- Topical spiro has been shown to have almost no systemic absorption in studies

I'm guessing both the positive and negative effects that you felt were psychosomatic.

albe--

considering your regimen of fin and arimedex, i think it is safe to say you wouldn't experience sides.

i stand behind what i said. and i dropped fin after just two weeks.

i think it is insane that only on hair loss forums posters challenge testimonials, instead of just offering their own.

Gibson wrote:albe--

considering your regimen of fin and arimedex, i think it is safe to say you wouldn't experience sides.

i stand behind what i said. and i dropped fin after just two weeks.

i think it is insane that only on hair loss forums posters challenge testimonials, instead of just offering their own.

My testimonial-
I've been putting 2% spiro in my nizoral shampoo for 2 years. I haven't noticed anything either good or bad. I've seen enough studies to understand it's helping at least a little, so I'm going to keep doing it. My experiences are consistent with those I've heard on other forums. I've never heard of anybody having amazing results with topical spiro, and I've never heard of anyone suffering sides from it.

wow. you're full-on RX.

that I can accept.

but could never work for me.

My experience was very similar, I used to wake up with expetionally rapid heart beat and anxiety. I found it hard to breath and decided to quit Spiro fairly quickly, I did notice it made my scalp feel the best it's ever felt. I expect it's a pretty impressive topical, but there has to be some small internal absorbtion since I've heard about this problem a few times. Some studies I just honestly don't believe, especially the Finasteride one (2% sides)...

Decro--

I find it hard to believe the notion that it is metabolized in the scalp and not absorbed. To my mind, anything that exhibits an effect when taken orally, has the potential to the same effect when applied transdermally. You could probably smoke it too--whole lotta blood vessles in the lungs--or shoot it. Just needs to enter your blood stream.

(nevermind the druggie posturing, for those who are easily drawn to conclusions)

I tried Lees Spiro and had something similar. Defiinitely affected mood too as well as metabolism, and such and kept me up. Also, had nutache and libido drop. Contrary to popular belief, it definitely worked systemically on me. Had to drop it because of that. Topical Fin gets absorbed. Fluridil would be great if it weren't for the alcohol.

danmrtini wrote:Fluridil would be great if it weren't for the alcohol.

My experience with fluridil, as well--the alcohol part. I could never get past it to judge if it was effective.

Gibson wrote:wow. you're full-on RX.

that I can accept.

but could never work for me.

Not full on. I got really bad sides from minox and dropped it, even though it was working well.

I also eat all organic (veggies, fruits, green powder, whey protein, organic meat+eggs, fish, nuts). On top of that I take iodine, curcumin, biotin, CoQ10, and some other natural supps.

I don't have the fear of pharmaceuticals that most of you guys have, though.

albe--

I used minox for close to four years without sides. I realized I wasn't comfortable using it long term because of the cardiovascular risks which I'm already at risk for--family history.

That said, dropping topical spiro was very straight forward: bad sides.

I understand your experience differs.

danmrtini wrote:I tried Lees Spiro and had something similar. Defiinitely affected mood too as well as metabolism, and such and kept me up. Also, had nutache and libido drop. Contrary to popular belief, it definitely worked systemically on me. Had to drop it because of that. Topical Fin gets absorbed. Fluridil would be great if it weren't for the alcohol.

The NutAche!!! I remember. Even thinking about it makes my nuts feel like they are going to start hurting horribly again. I was on oral spiro for a little while. I know how that feels. Dropped it like a piece of hot coal.

It's wild that you're getting sides from topical spiro... I used to practically bathe in the stuff and never experienced any sides other than stinky head.

From HLH forum about Spiro and its angiogenesis effects:

"in very simple terms:
During the hair growth phase, a lot a small new blood vessels are created.

Those new vessels support and nurish the hair follicles in growth phase.

The formation of new blood vessels is called angiogenesis.

Side note: in some cancers, a similar processus of new blood vessels formation is taking place to support the growth of cancer.

One of Minoxidil mode of action is to support the formation of new blood vessels though VEGF up-regulation.

So spiro will act like a REVERSE Minoxidil, reducing those new small blood vessels needed for a healthy growth of the hair follicles. "

This might also seem to apply to Curcumin and its angiogenic effects. MIght this be a concern about both substances?

So this "Spiro isn't absorbed systematically" is untrue?

DM5: by "kept you up" you mean you were having trouble falling asleep? that's what is happening to me with Lee's 5% spiro cream... but I hadn't related it to the use of topical spironolactone

Well used spiro for 2 weeks or so. Used it last night before bed and the side started kicking in for the first time in less than an hour after applyling it. Heart rate increased (also just a discomfort aound the chest, not really pain), cold sweat, at one point felt I was going to feint. Peak of it lasted around 10 mins before body calmed down. The stuff does stop hair fall out for me, im in no doubt about that as since using it shedding has been more or less non existent however I will not put my body through sides like that so spiro is crossed off my list. Really freaked me out during the night as I've never really experienced anything like that as my body is usually so stable when it comes to heart rate/blood pressure. So much for not being systemically absorbed.

Just to add, that application was the 2nd of the day without washing my hair and I may well have used to much. Maybe spiro is something that could be used EOD with only one application a day? Don't know if that would deem it inaffective but the sides I had have just really put me off trying this stuff again

You can buy spiro tablets and make a topical at http://ttphamstore.com/?wm=10034&tr=8027

magic_gro wrote:DM5: by "kept you up" you mean you were having trouble falling asleep? that's what is happening to me with Lee's 5% spiro cream... but I hadn't related it to the use of topical spironolactone

I am on Spiro for couple of weeks now and have no side effects so far-- I was told by my GP that should take it first thing in the morning and never take it during the nigth even if i miss a dose --maybe thats something to consider ?