What are the downsides to wearing a hair system?

They seem pretty easy imo. Well not EASY but fairly simple and straight forward. You can also basically get a nw0 while no HT + dangerous drugs could do that for most guys.

Hair system is also healthier (the glue ingredients might not be great)

Is it the idea? Or do they look fake? Im a little clueless on why more of the hairloss boards dont discuss these.

You mean a hair system like this? This QA video on youtube might help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv2H9GNBpi4

Downsides:

(1) You are gluing fucking hair to your scalp.
(2) You are basically admitting to soul defeat, that all of your pride as a human being is tied up in strands of keratin sprouting out of your scalp, such that you are so desperate to have something superficial you'll glue it to your fucking scalp.
(3) All of the mental stress associated with your hair loss won't just go away because you are essentially still wearing a hair hat when in public.

I believe we live in a world where the pressures placed on women to look a certain way are so much more significant as to be downright cruelly unfair. But at the same time its a very simple dynamic to understand. It all has to do with the competitive inter-gender forces that were at work long, long ago. Women have always been valued for their physical display of genetics. So for women to adorn themselves and have "adjustments" done or to wear hair extensions (etc.) is all socially acceptable and we can understand this.

For men, its detracting from both your attraction and your own self-worth to hide what you are, even if that you is flawed. You are sabotaging your own person to do this kind of thing, even if you think it makes you "pass" as better looking for the time you are wearing it. You will be more valued for optimizing what you can about your health/appearance but not worrying about what you can't change.

I mean if you want to go with a transplant from a reputable surgeon who can sell the outcome, that's one thing. Its actual hair. A hair system is a more pathetic form of the hat-always-on syndrome. At the end of the day you may not agree with me on that, but something I think you'd find hard to argue is that you wouldn't want to start a relationship with someone based on a major lie about what you truly look like. At some point its going to come out that you are bald. Wouldn't you rather it be YOU someone falls for to begin with, rather than reveal it later along with revealing dishonesty and the extent of your insecurity?

So you have to decide what your real reason for doing this is. Want something to get you a one night stand and think hair is the only way to do that? Well, you're wrong, but I'd still get it. But if you start a relationship with someone, whether romantic or just friendships, these things aren't fronts you can keep up with forever. The closer someone is to you, the faster it will come out. And I can't stress enough how important I think it is for someone to know who you are up front, in honesty. Imagine how deceiving it would feel if you were seeing someone and they removed a glued on hair piece off for you to discover they were bald. What may have been a non-issue if they'd been up front has now turned into this....thing. It would change the entire way you looked at that person to know they were hiding, particularly as a male that is hiding. Physical insecurity isn't as tolerated in males, and with reason, whether that is fair or not. And to mention again, you'd still be dealing with all of the subtle psychological effects of knowing you were hiding. It would be like walking around in 5 inch elevator shoes. Sure you might fake like you are tall, but deep down you'd still behave like the short guy because that insecurity was still at your core.

102 wrote:You are basically admitting to soul defeat

I agree with this statement, which is one reason I WILL NEVER EVER GIVE UP ON THESE ALTERNATIVE METHODS WE USE HERE TO TRY TO CORRECT MY HEALTH AND THUS MY HAIR.  While I'm breathing I will never admit defeat.

Not shouting there, just emphasizing.  

That said, I also agree with the implication of 102's post that we can't tie up a whole lot of self-esteem in our hair.  But as physical health improves with good diet and some of the supplements we use here, so does mental health.  And, serendipitously, so does hair.   Maybe it doesn't all grow back, but because you feel good and are of a rational state of mind, you don't care as much.  You are able to put  hair loss in its proper perspective, which is one thing so many here have trouble doing.  I used to, myself.

That said, I have a very old friend who uses Hair Club.  It actually looks quite good.  He says it works for him and aside from the expense is fairly problem free.  He said he could swim, sweat, etc.  Last I asked him, which was quite a few years ago, it was $250/month for what he was getting.   Kinda pricey.  Myself, I'd rather spend that on supplements and good, healthy food.  YMMV.

102 wrote:Downsides:

(1) You are gluing fucking hair to your scalp.
(2) You are basically admitting to soul defeat, that all of your pride as a human being is tied up in strands of keratin sprouting out of your scalp, such that you are so desperate to have something superficial you'll glue it to your fucking scalp.
(3) All of the mental stress associated with your hair loss won't just go away because you are essentially still wearing a hair hat when in public.

I believe we live in a world where the pressures placed on women to look a certain way are so much more significant as to be downright cruelly unfair. But at the same time its a very simple dynamic to understand. It all has to do with the competitive inter-gender forces that were at work long, long ago. Women have always been valued for their physical display of genetics. So for women to adorn themselves and have "adjustments" done or to wear hair extensions (etc.) is all socially acceptable and we can understand this.

For men, its detracting from both your attraction and your own self-worth to hide what you are, even if that you is flawed. You are sabotaging your own person to do this kind of thing, even if you think it makes you "pass" as better looking for the time you are wearing it. You will be more valued for optimizing what you can about your health/appearance but not worrying about what you can't change.

I mean if you want to go with a transplant from a reputable surgeon who can sell the outcome, that's one thing. Its actual hair. A hair system is a more pathetic form of the hat-always-on syndrome. At the end of the day you may not agree with me on that, but something I think you'd find hard to argue is that you wouldn't want to start a relationship with someone based on a major lie about what you truly look like. At some point its going to come out that you are bald. Wouldn't you rather it be YOU someone falls for to begin with, rather than reveal it later along with revealing dishonesty and the extent of your insecurity?

So you have to decide what your real reason for doing this is. Want something to get you a one night stand and think hair is the only way to do that? Well, you're wrong, but I'd still get it. But if you start a relationship with someone, whether romantic or just friendships, these things aren't fronts you can keep up with forever. The closer someone is to you, the faster it will come out. And I can't stress enough how important I think it is for someone to know who you are up front, in honesty. Imagine how deceiving it would feel if you were seeing someone and they removed a glued on hair piece off for you to discover they were bald. What may have been a non-issue if they'd been up front has now turned into this....thing. It would change the entire way you looked at that person to know they were hiding, particularly as a male that is hiding. Physical insecurity isn't as tolerated in males, and with reason, whether that is fair or not. And to mention again, you'd still be dealing with all of the subtle psychological effects of knowing you were hiding. It would be like walking around in 5 inch elevator shoes. Sure you might fake like you are tall, but deep down you'd still behave like the short guy because that insecurity was still at your core.

i feel like you are getting way too into it. simple fact is, people look better with hair versus without hair. if there was a hair system that looked 100% authentic, i really wouldnt care and would go for it. there's not pressure by society making people to want to do it, but people do it because they know it looks better than without.

at the end of the day, everyone is going to get old and be 100 years old, honestly i dont see what the big deal is to look your best while you still can. EVERYONE, repeat.. EVERYONE has insecurities, it's not some card your handing in, welp i'm a little bitch because i got hair on my head, so here is my man card. ]

physical insecurity is RAMPANT in males, more RAMPANT than anyone wants to admit. case in point.. goto any bar and see the amount of guys who DO NOT approach, basically everyone, and this is the most social environment there is involving alcohol and people who go out of their way to socialize in the bar setting. at least in america.

I'm not saying I don't understand where you are coming from. The desire to look good is pretty ubiquitous. But we also live in a society where it has been made into a perverse priority that is troubling. When you are doing things that aren't you, I think its troubling. But again, I feel the pressures on women are stronger and different in nature. As a man you are expected - again, with reason - to handle your feelings of insecurity differently. It may be an outdated, patriarchal view, but I feel things like this are kind of getting washed out in this "everybody is the same" gender-enemy culture. Yes, you might have feelings of insecurity but as a male I believe these are pains we should feel, acknowledge, and forget. Despite what culture is telling you about gender, you still see the truth in people's choices and behavior, and I'm telling you that you will be treated as more masculine for being exactly who you are, living in your reality, and not fretting about insecurities.

I have a good friend named Travis. This guy is bald, has a little bit of a pudgy belly, and a pretty unattractive face. He gets laid more than any man I've ever met. I believe you could put him into a bar with a guy who looked like ryan gosling (without the celeb status of course) and he'd pull more. You wanna know why? Because he literally - not faking - doesn't give a shit, just genuinely. He's socially aggressive and says what he wants when he wants to. Because there literally is not a person out there who could tool him out. The coolest guy at the bar could make fun of this guy, and it wouldn't phase him, but he gives off that vibe in the way he carries himself and he doesn't get fucked with. That is not something you can achieve when you are worrying about your hair, when you think you have something to hide, when you have an inferiority to do with your hair. By all of your standards this guy does not look good at all. But he constantly attracts great looking women. Its masculinity. Pure and simple. He can and does put some people off occasionally but I've never seen him have a dry night. Not once. I've gotten in fights with this guy for outright pulling girls right out from under me (and those of my other friends), but even still I think I've learned a lot from him about social dynamics.

Ever notice the difference between the bald guy who is badass and tends to have a hot woman on his arm, and the balding guy who seethes insecurity and is the target of jokes? The difference is all in how they view themselves. So my point is, even if the hair system works and passes for a legit crop of hair, it still is never going to address the person inside you, and as long as you are still hiding, those parts of you will always show, no matter how good you think the system looks, and especially to people with antennae for your social cues: WOMEN. Again, it would be like a real short guy on stilts. Even if he hides them under his pants and is able to walk normally, he's still going to act like a short guy.

And despite our cultural pressures today to not talk about gender roles and masculinity/femininity, the truth will always be there under the cultural rhetoric. Men still want feminine women and women still want masculine men (of course there are exceptions that are obvious). Insecurity is the antithesis of masculinity. So I think its about the importance you place on your looks, friend. If you think having hair is going to be this key to the gate of constant ass, or even to the gate of meeting your soul-mate, you're dead wrong. The things I believe you should be working on literally can't be worked on when you are placing such importance on your looks, or worrying about their fleeting nature.

Bravo! Here's the thing: if Travis had a bad night with the chicks, would he beat himself up over it on the way home? Nope, he's not in that place anymore. . .

my last resort has ALWAYS been a transplant in the front, and a lightweight hair system for the crown. if it makes you look better and feel better, rock the fuck out of it. that's all there is to it.

Im not sure that this isnt just a case of different moral compasses or just differnt personalities all together.

I have no problem wearing 5 inch shoe lift boots and wearing a hair system. Actually in a lot of ways it seems like a better option than getting real hair (a hair system gives you a thick nw0 look, and a HT usually wont.)

The reason you'd feel insecure about not being 5 inches taller or having that hair is because you placed an absolute value on your appearance. But I do not. I only value my appearance as a means to an end (attracting someone, or eliciting more favorable responses from the same sex).

To be actually insecure about your hairloss (in a room where you're the only person who knows you have it) is akin to BDD.

Placing an absolute value on your own appearance is silly imo, since consciousness is translucent and is never readily observant of itself (you dont see yourself, only for a few minutes a day)

102 wrote:Downsides:

(1) You are gluing fucking hair to your scalp.
(2) You are basically admitting to soul defeat, that all of your pride as a human being is tied up in strands of keratin sprouting out of your scalp, such that you are so desperate to have something superficial you'll glue it to your fucking scalp.
(3) All of the mental stress associated with your hair loss won't just go away because you are essentially still wearing a hair hat when in public.

I believe we live in a world where the pressures placed on women to look a certain way are so much more significant as to be downright cruelly unfair. But at the same time its a very simple dynamic to understand. It all has to do with the competitive inter-gender forces that were at work long, long ago. Women have always been valued for their physical display of genetics. So for women to adorn themselves and have "adjustments" done or to wear hair extensions (etc.) is all socially acceptable and we can understand this.

For men, its detracting from both your attraction and your own self-worth to hide what you are, even if that you is flawed. You are sabotaging your own person to do this kind of thing, even if you think it makes you "pass" as better looking for the time you are wearing it. You will be more valued for optimizing what you can about your health/appearance but not worrying about what you can't change.

I mean if you want to go with a transplant from a reputable surgeon who can sell the outcome, that's one thing. Its actual hair. A hair system is a more pathetic form of the hat-always-on syndrome. At the end of the day you may not agree with me on that, but something I think you'd find hard to argue is that you wouldn't want to start a relationship with someone based on a major lie about what you truly look like. At some point its going to come out that you are bald. Wouldn't you rather it be YOU someone falls for to begin with, rather than reveal it later along with revealing dishonesty and the extent of your insecurity?

So you have to decide what your real reason for doing this is. Want something to get you a one night stand and think hair is the only way to do that? Well, you're wrong, but I'd still get it. But if you start a relationship with someone, whether romantic or just friendships, these things aren't fronts you can keep up with forever. The closer someone is to you, the faster it will come out. And I can't stress enough how important I think it is for someone to know who you are up front, in honesty. Imagine how deceiving it would feel if you were seeing someone and they removed a glued on hair piece off for you to discover they were bald. What may have been a non-issue if they'd been up front has now turned into this....thing. It would change the entire way you looked at that person to know they were hiding, particularly as a male that is hiding. Physical insecurity isn't as tolerated in males, and with reason, whether that is fair or not. And to mention again, you'd still be dealing with all of the subtle psychological effects of knowing you were hiding. It would be like walking around in 5 inch elevator shoes. Sure you might fake like you are tall, but deep down you'd still behave like the short guy because that insecurity was still at your core.

sanderson wrote:

102 wrote:Downsides:

(1) You are gluing fucking hair to your scalp.
(2) You are basically admitting to soul defeat, that all of your pride as a human being is tied up in strands of keratin sprouting out of your scalp, such that you are so desperate to have something superficial you'll glue it to your fucking scalp.
(3) All of the mental stress associated with your hair loss won't just go away because you are essentially still wearing a hair hat when in public.

I believe we live in a world where the pressures placed on women to look a certain way are so much more significant as to be downright cruelly unfair. But at the same time its a very simple dynamic to understand. It all has to do with the competitive inter-gender forces that were at work long, long ago. Women have always been valued for their physical display of genetics. So for women to adorn themselves and have "adjustments" done or to wear hair extensions (etc.) is all socially acceptable and we can understand this.

For men, its detracting from both your attraction and your own self-worth to hide what you are, even if that you is flawed. You are sabotaging your own person to do this kind of thing, even if you think it makes you "pass" as better looking for the time you are wearing it. You will be more valued for optimizing what you can about your health/appearance but not worrying about what you can't change.

I mean if you want to go with a transplant from a reputable surgeon who can sell the outcome, that's one thing. Its actual hair. A hair system is a more pathetic form of the hat-always-on syndrome. At the end of the day you may not agree with me on that, but something I think you'd find hard to argue is that you wouldn't want to start a relationship with someone based on a major lie about what you truly look like. At some point its going to come out that you are bald. Wouldn't you rather it be YOU someone falls for to begin with, rather than reveal it later along with revealing dishonesty and the extent of your insecurity?

So you have to decide what your real reason for doing this is. Want something to get you a one night stand and think hair is the only way to do that? Well, you're wrong, but I'd still get it. But if you start a relationship with someone, whether romantic or just friendships, these things aren't fronts you can keep up with forever. The closer someone is to you, the faster it will come out. And I can't stress enough how important I think it is for someone to know who you are up front, in honesty. Imagine how deceiving it would feel if you were seeing someone and they removed a glued on hair piece off for you to discover they were bald. What may have been a non-issue if they'd been up front has now turned into this....thing. It would change the entire way you looked at that person to know they were hiding, particularly as a male that is hiding. Physical insecurity isn't as tolerated in males, and with reason, whether that is fair or not. And to mention again, you'd still be dealing with all of the subtle psychological effects of knowing you were hiding. It would be like walking around in 5 inch elevator shoes. Sure you might fake like you are tall, but deep down you'd still behave like the short guy because that insecurity was still at your core.

i feel like you are getting way too into it. simple fact is, people look better with hair versus without hair. if there was a hair system that looked 100% authentic, i really wouldnt care and would go for it. there's not pressure by society making people to want to do it, but people do it because they know it looks better than without.

at the end of the day, everyone is going to get old and be 100 years old, honestly i dont see what the big deal is to look your best while you still can. EVERYONE, repeat.. EVERYONE has insecurities, it's not some card your handing in, welp i'm a little bitch because i got hair on my head, so here is my man card. ]

physical insecurity is RAMPANT in males, more RAMPANT than anyone wants to admit. case in point.. goto any bar and see the amount of guys who DO NOT approach, basically everyone, and this is the most social environment there is involving alcohol and people who go out of their way to socialize in the bar setting. at least in america.

So the problem is that there are no good legit loooking ones? That is a problem then. I have read northwestlace but i havent seen one up close or in person

Sanderson i've been approaching women as a nearly full time hobby for 2 years now. Thousands of approaches during the daytime and nighttime.

I have no problems with insecurity in this regard, however, in a factual basis I'm well aware of all my flaws. Maybe subconsciously that creeps into my interactions. But simply approaching girls is not something that I'm afraid of. I will generally approach any girl anyplace (obviously not in a weird parking lot or something creepy)

There is more to the Travis situation than meets the eye. As a result of spending thousands of hours in bars and people watching in public I've developed the ability to explain why men are successful with women.

I would bet that this Travis guy has a large frame (his actual skeleton, shoulders and skull size) and probably a deep voice. These 2 things can usually compensate for being bald.

There are plenty of NW0 guys with male figure skater skeletal frames that you will see in any college cafeteria. You can easily pinpoint them and tell they aren't getting laid. Childhood vit d/k2 status and length of breast feeding are very important factors for how many "lays" you will get in life. Jaw development coincides well with the skeletal development.

I cannot say for sure if women are attracted to large skeletons itself or the man with the large skeleton is given preferential treatment from other males as a youth and develops a more outgoing and robust personality as a result. I would speculate the former because I have been able to somewhat fake the "social aggression" and I presume it comes off as mis-caliberated.

102 wrote:I'm not saying I don't understand where you are coming from. The desire to look good is pretty ubiquitous. But we also live in a society where it has been made into a perverse priority that is troubling. When you are doing things that aren't you, I think its troubling. But again, I feel the pressures on women are stronger and different in nature. As a man you are expected - again, with reason - to handle your feelings of insecurity differently. It may be an outdated, patriarchal view, but I feel things like this are kind of getting washed out in this "everybody is the same" gender-enemy culture. Yes, you might have feelings of insecurity but as a male I believe these are pains we should feel, acknowledge, and forget. Despite what culture is telling you about gender, you still see the truth in people's choices and behavior, and I'm telling you that you will be treated as more masculine for being exactly who you are, living in your reality, and not fretting about insecurities.

I have a good friend named Travis. This guy is bald, has a little bit of a pudgy belly, and a pretty unattractive face. He gets laid more than any man I've ever met. I believe you could put him into a bar with a guy who looked like ryan gosling (without the celeb status of course) and he'd pull more. You wanna know why? Because he literally - not faking - doesn't give a shit, just genuinely. He's socially aggressive and says what he wants when he wants to. Because there literally is not a person out there who could tool him out. The coolest guy at the bar could make fun of this guy, and it wouldn't phase him, but he gives off that vibe in the way he carries himself and he doesn't get fucked with. That is not something you can achieve when you are worrying about your hair, when you think you have something to hide, when you have an inferiority to do with your hair. By all of your standards this guy does not look good at all. But he constantly attracts great looking women. Its masculinity. Pure and simple. He can and does put some people off occasionally but I've never seen him have a dry night. Not once. I've gotten in fights with this guy for outright pulling girls right out from under me (and those of my other friends), but even still I think I've learned a lot from him about social dynamics.

Ever notice the difference between the bald guy who is badass and tends to have a hot woman on his arm, and the balding guy who seethes insecurity and is the target of jokes? The difference is all in how they view themselves. So my point is, even if the hair system works and passes for a legit crop of hair, it still is never going to address the person inside you, and as long as you are still hiding, those parts of you will always show, no matter how good you think the system looks, and especially to people with antennae for your social cues: WOMEN. Again, it would be like a real short guy on stilts. Even if he hides them under his pants and is able to walk normally, he's still going to act like a short guy.

And despite our cultural pressures today to not talk about gender roles and masculinity/femininity, the truth will always be there under the cultural rhetoric. Men still want feminine women and women still want masculine men (of course there are exceptions that are obvious). Insecurity is the antithesis of masculinity. So I think its about the importance you place on your looks, friend. If you think having hair is going to be this key to the gate of constant ass, or even to the gate of meeting your soul-mate, you're dead wrong. The things I believe you should be working on literally can't be worked on when you are placing such importance on your looks, or worrying about their fleeting nature.

Odysseus wrote:
Bravo! Here's the thing: if Travis had a bad night with the chicks, would he beat himself up over it on the way home? Nope, he's not in that place anymore. . .

Bingo. One thing I've always noticed about men who tend to be good with women, is they take NOTHING personally. They can and do get totally shut out sometimes. The reason they never have a dry night out is because they let it slide off their shoulder and not effect their mental state at all. Its on to the next one. It seems its more of "coming from abundance" type of mind set, rather than the normal thing guys do which is dwell on something.

xztop123 wrote:There is more to the Travis situation than meets the eye.  As a result of spending thousands of hours in bars and people watching in public I've developed the ability to explain why men are successful with women.

I would bet that this Travis guy has a large frame (his actual skeleton, shoulders and skull size) and probably a deep voice.  These 2 things can usually compensate for being bald.

There are plenty of NW0 guys with male figure skater skeletal frames that you will see in any college cafeteria.  You can easily pinpoint them and tell they aren't getting laid.  Childhood vit d/k2 status and length of breast feeding are very important factors for how many "lays" you will get in life.  Jaw development coincides well with the skeletal development.  

I cannot say for sure if women are attracted to large skeletons itself or the man with the large skeleton is given preferential treatment from other males as a youth and develops a more outgoing and robust personality as a result.  I would speculate the former because I have been able to somewhat fake the "social aggression" and I presume it comes off as mis-caliberated.

Interesting observations here. With Travis, he is not traditionally tall. But he isn't truly short either. He's about my height which is 5'10". But he does have a large skull and jawbone, and he is stocky (broad shoulders, naturally muscled), with a deep voice.

All of these can be clues as to steroid hormone doses during puberty and the womb, and they are generally signs of masculinity. Combined with his social aggressiveness (which research has shown is perhaps the biggest factor in how a woman selects a man for a one night stand), this might explain his success.

The thing is I don't think you require all of these things. I think learning how to be skillfully socially aggressive can get any man attraction. Having a certain body can get you that attraction, although with women this initial attention can be fleeting if your personality does not calibrate with her initial impression. The overarching point I've been making from the get go is hair (while it can be a youthful, attractive feature) is just a little piece of an overall impression, of a whole puzzle. I think as a man, its most useful to recognize what we can change, and what we cannot, and to optimize ourselves in a way that doesn't compromise our total acceptance of ourselves, or try to hide anything.

And as a last point, I think we are painting baldness as an absolutely unattractive feature here. I'm not sure if any of you other guys have had this experience, but I've picked up women who were really turned on by bald guys. I think there are some very, very complicated evolutionary things happening with hairloss and I think socially baldness probably had a role in social signalling at some point in time. We can't rule out that baldness isn't communicating some type of attractive quality, whether that be age (which has also been shown in research to be attractive to women), dominance, or some more physiological signal of hormonal status.

I think things also depend heavily on any particular woman's experience with bald men. Our parents have a great deal to do with who we are attracted to in the future. If a woman has grown up around bald men - especially her father - then she has been exposed for life to nurturing, dominant, influential men who were bald. It would be no surprise she would like bald men. These relationships are complex, but a quick intuitive gloss over them should make some sense here. If her experience with her father was good (and he was bald) then seeing a bald man might associate some good qualities with him. If she had a bad experience with her father - it might still work in your favor as she's still likely trying to "win" his affection subconsciously. But I'm on a tangent now.

I'm currently flirting around with a girl at work. 19 years old. Very attractive. To be honest, I didn't think this girl was going to waste a second on me. Not that I don't feel I deserve it. But 19 yr olds are 19 yr olds. Anyhow, this girl has basically been pursuing me. And what's very interesting is she has outright given me shit about my hair several times. At one point she asked to see a photo of me with hair. I whipped my phone out and showed her, and she essentially said I looked better with hair. The next day she started coming up and rubbing my head, telling me to grow my hair out. On some level I felt like she was testing me. But it occurred to me that maybe she really just didn't like baldness and might just be a rude person. But I kept my cool, acted like it didn't phase me at all, and actually kind of just brushed her off like a little sister who was poking me. She said, "You should grow your hair out." I said, "Why. I like it like this." She says, "Because I want to see it grown out." To which I reply, "I don't live in your reality. I live in mine. I'm comfortable like this." She says, "Okay. So you're 26 and bald." I end on, "Yeah, that's right."

I thought it was done. She seemed to have expressed she didn't like the way I looked, and to me it was obvious. She's 19. Prime of her aesthetic life. Well, she hasn't stopped hanging all over me and flirting with me at work ever since. She is constantly finding ways to start conversations with me or seek me out to talk, ask questions she knows the answers to. Hang around and flirt. I'll say I'm going to go out drinking tonight. She asks with who. If I bring up a girl, she's all questions. Mentioned I was talking to a girl I used to date, and she got all out of sorts. She just asked me to go with her for a weekend to a hair and beauty conference outta state (ironic kinda ). Not sure where its gonna go. Probably nowhere being that the difference in mental maturity between 19 and 26 is light years. But I thought I'd share.

These things are more complex - meaning human attraction - than simply saying "have hair, will fuck". I legitimately believe she was being truthful when she said she preferred hair. She may have or may have not liked my bald head. Point is there is SO much more going on and we can't be reductionist when it comes to these things. Its impossible. Again, I didn't tell that story to jerk myself off. I wanted to tell it because I still have bad days. Days I feel like dogshit. Then you see things like this and it kind of reminds you people aren't robots. Yes our genes guide our behavior, but they are a fraction of the total input/output when it comes to complex things like wanting to be with someone, or even just sleep with them.

You're a smart dude 102, I like your words.

I agree, 102 and Odysseus are a couple of my favorites on here.

Aside from shoving my nose up people's asses here, putting fake hair on your head is like a chick with breast implants. Take that for what it's worth.

Growdamnit wrote:I agree, 102 and Odysseus are a couple of my favorites on here.

Aside from shoving my nose up people's asses here, putting fake hair on your head is like a chick with breast implants. Take that for what it's worth.

No. Putting fake hair on your head is like a chick putting fake hair on her head...You're not being superficial and asking for something you never had. You're seeing something deteriorate and you cover that up. Little different...

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to just deal with your appearance now, as opposed to constantly checking up on your cosmetics for the rest of your life? Hair piece in place? Topic applied properly?

The downside is that it's not permanently attached to your head and made out of living hair. Oh wait...

First of all. Let yourself decide. Sit down in a quiet place and just frame the thought. Gluing hair to my head. I'd be very willing to bet that it bothers something in you. At least something, but you rationalize that initial gut reaction away. It recalls all of those old informercials with hair-in-the-can, guys spraying something to fill in spots. Or pieces that came off, ala Kingpin. Its not about this particular system. Its about your identity. Its about the way males trying to hide their hair loss have always been viewed. It makes people uncomfortable. When you see someone who by all rights appears like a confident person, and then something happens that you realize they are suddenly hiding from a deep insecurity and are humiliated, it makes you cringe.

Now, it could be that these cringe-worthy aspects I just mentioned had to do with the poor performance of the technologies themselves. Maybe the joke lay with the products and not the men themselves (I'd argue that though). If the hair system were something that performed extremely well and you could count on it not failing, maybe it might be useful for you for a night. If it gave you a confidence boost and got you in the frame of mind you were able to talk to women, sure you might get laid. If that's the case, wonderful. [I'd always be thinking what about when I wake up in the morning next to her?, what if a woman tugs it during sex?, and the possibilities for what could go wrong are enough to steal you out of a good confident frame]

But how long is that going to last? If you see her again in a different context, or start seeing her frequently, this is going to come up. Whether it be from friends or family (both of whom you socialized with all of the time), its going to come up. You won't be able to slink around your home slipping into bathrooms here and there to adjust or apply it. Fuck would you want to do that? Its a big lie. It really is. Imagine you'd been seeing a woman for weeks and weeks, and suddenly you find shes been wearing a hair system and she's bald on top. You'd feel lied to. Its not her fault for wanting to do what she did, but you would have preferrred to have known up front.

And that is where it is NOT like female breast implants. Female breast implants are artificial but they are not a lie. When you see implants - for the most part - you recognize those are fake. Its a clear assumption that she was endowed with smaller breasts than she currently has. By extension, you realize she was unhappy with her former breast size, perhaps insecure, and wanted them larger, perhaps to feel more feminine. The point is she isn't lying. People know those big tits are fake.

But that's the rub. Its perfectly acceptable for women to do these things. For the feminine, we tolerate physical insecurity. Its because we all implicitly realize that women are valued (however unfair it is) primarily for how they appear. (We could go into a discussion about the reasons why elsewhere) Both men and women are very aware of this. We accept when women adorn themselves to enhance their beauty. Its been done for centuries. Add length to hair. Wear heals to appear taller and cause the posture to change w/ protrusion of the chest. Makeup. Fake nails. Fake tans. Blah blah blah. Its always been acceptable.

But culture has always punished men for hiding insecurities and not dealing with them in a masculine fashion. While things are changing as far as whats acceptable, especially as you approach more urban and culturally forward areas, I don't believe this will change that much. You might be able to  go get a pedicure as a male and no one bats an eye, but it will never be acceptable for you to wear fake hair on your head. Again, if you can pass it off and it gets you laid and its bye bye birdy, great. But it will be this insidious thing in any relationship where you aren't honest right up front about it.

But I have to agree that I feel a masculine energy finds it inappropriate to have to live in someone else's reality. It communicates you are prioritizing someone else's reality over your own and giving in to it, jumping through other's hoops, just to gain other's acceptance. As a male, you toss out your masculine frame with this. Its like you just hand it over. And I believe this is at the core of why its so cringey and uncomfortable to see men with pieces and the like. The male is someone you want to trust, to live in his frame. When you see he is uncomfortable and lying to himself, it makes you uncomfortable with him, and you can't trust him. Trust is the currency of masculinity.

You may feel that this is unfair. Well women get to be this way, while we are expected to be this way. I'd say deal with it. Its going to do you MUCH better to acknowledge what is, go with it, than to try to fight what is. There are people, especially women, who will tell you that this is all cultural and changes with the times like a wave. That is not true. There are some very solid principles rooted in biology and evolution (and higher spirituality) with this dynamic between the masculine and the feminine. But you've got assess your goal for the piece. If you wanna get laid and fool people for a night, great. But it will undercut the most valued parts of your masculinity over the long rung. You may say, "102, you're contradicting yourself. If being masculine is about living in your reality and not others', then shouldn't it be my choice to wear a hair system and not take into account what others' think?".

I'd agree with you completely. Except that wearing the system is predicated first on other's perceptions of you, not some inside-only desire for yourself. If your desire is born of insecurity or communication from others about what you should be or have, then its not really yours at all. But you could technically wear this system and pull it off completely but it would require 100% honesty and totally not giving a fuck. You'd have to have the ability to let everyone know exactly what you're doing, and not give a shit what ANYONE says about it. I mean so strongly, so sincerely deeply not give a shit, that no one making a comment or tooling you out about it could even shake your frame. If you are able to do that, then there is almost nothing you can't get away with. But for most men, the desire to wear the system is suggestive of an insecurity initially which contradicts our premise of totally not giving a shit. How can you not give a shit when the reason you're wearing the thing is because you gave a shit, see what I mean?

Then couldn't you extend that same line of thinking to anyone willing to treat their hair loss, in any way?

To men taking fin and dut, depriving themselves of essential male hormones just to regrow hair? Isn't that born from the same insecurities?

If the only 'manly' thing to do is just to shave it off and accept it. Surely enough, anyone doing otherwise is insecure in some form or another. But what about it? I have no trouble admitting I'm insecure. If I was some big macho male who could just shave it and roll with it that would be ideal. But I'm not, and probably never will be.

Secondly, what if it's not so much about what others think, but what you yourself think? Everyone always says, for others to accept you, you must accept yourself first. Well, there is the problem for me. What if I will never like seeing a bald self in the mirror. What if I will always hate myself for this happening to me even though it was not in any way my fault. If I will always feel like living an inferior life because it would have been oh so much better if I never had to deal with baldness. I will be taking this out on myself, and you can be sure others will feel it. It can just be a matter of spite, of wanting to be better and ABOVE this disease. No, not ME.

And if I fail in the end, and know that I am now resigned to this life of never having hair again, and being reminded of that on every corner. Doesn't even have to involve what others think, when I myself will never be able to move past that.

DeadlyDevice wrote:Then couldn't you extend that same line of thinking to anyone willing to treat their hair loss, in any way?

To men taking fin and dut, depriving themselves of essential male hormones just to regrow hair? Isn't that born from the same insecurities?

If the only 'manly' thing to do is just to shave it off and accept it. Surely enough, anyone doing otherwise is insecure in some form or another. But what about it? I have no trouble admitting I'm insecure. If I was some big macho male who could just shave it and roll with it that would be ideal. But I'm not, and probably never will be.

Secondly, what if it's not so much about what others think, but what you yourself think? Everyone always says, for others to accept you, you must accept yourself first. Well, there is the problem for me. What if I will never like seeing a bald self in the mirror. What if I will always hate myself for this happening to me even though it was not in any way my fault. If I will always feel like living an inferior life because it would have been oh so much better if I never had to deal with baldness. I will be taking this out on myself, and you can be sure others will feel it. It can just be a matter of spite, of wanting to be better and ABOVE this disease. No, not ME.

And if I fail in the end, and know that I am now resigned to this life of never having hair again, and being reminded of that on every corner. Doesn't even have to involve what others think, when I myself will never be able to move past that.

Deadly, very good post. You put to words thoughts that I think a lot of us deal with, or have dealt with. It takes being pretty honest to say you think those things. And I'm not going to try to diminish the impact or weight that those thoughts have on each of us subjectively. I think these feelings are very real for all of us, at least at some point during this change. I will try to explain what I was saying in the previous post in context though and share how I believe it can help us decide how we go about dealing with our loss. But first I'll address the specific points you made in your post.

I did not mean to suggest that we should all be trying to achieve some tired, old idea of macho-masculinity. That shouldn't be the goal, because that was always a cartoonish and perverted picture of masculinity to begin with. The goal for a man should never be to *not* feel or to suppress feeling. The masculine nature arises in how those feelings are treated (and dealt with) by the man having them. I also don't think it requires you being macho to shave your head and roll with it. The meekest person on earth could eventually change themselves and get to a point where they were able to do this. But Deadly, notice in your response, how you are almost painting the picture in a self-shameful way. You are painting the picture of macho-ness as something you are not and which you will never be.

The way you frame that is very key about how you are coming toward this problem altogether. There is something others have, which I lack. I will never be that. I am different. There is something I don't have, almost as if to outline and insist upon standards that are expected and you feel you aren't meeting. I'd urge you to challenge these assumptions. The overarching point is that you don't have to feel this way about anything. Its looking out at the world and deciding there are expectations at all, and assessing yourself according to them, that is the pathology of the male experience. You are what you are, and that is it. The ultimate goal, of course, to be totally free within what you are, not longing for something that you perceive other's think you should want.

When you state that the way you feel about getting your hair back has more to do with what you think, and not what others think...I'd also urge you to really pick that apart. Is that really true? With no reference point as to what others thought, would you feel the same way as you do now? Imagine a universe where you were alone. Imagine losing hair like you did now. With no reference to some sense of shame, or lack, or comparisons to others, would you feel as ashamed and troubled? Or would you simply judge it for exactly what it was and add nothing else to it? In a more esoteric way of portraying masculinity, you could try to visualize an actualized male as being his own universe, where other's realities don't exist. Other people's experiences, preferences, judgements never pass through the filter of his reality. He acknowledges his experience and his own judgment of those experiences, free of all external input or judgement. There is no shame. No feeling of lacking. His foothold in reality is so strong that nothing others say will impact it, and he can be free from painful self-judgement and self-negative sentiments.

I don't believe this is something you achieve overnight. Its very much a Buddha frame of mind, but that isn't coincidental to me. I think it requires working with yourself and speaking with your own mind to get here. And pain is necessary also. Most of these negative feelings you talked about are rooted, at their very core, to a fear. Its not the shame you feel. In fact, its the fear of the shame. Your mind is literally afraid of your shame emotion. Its afraid of the pain of that emotion. When you learn and train your brain to no longer be afraid of the feeling, it just becomes something that is. Its there and then it dissipates and doesn't impact you. I think a first step toward this is fully and openly feeling your pain, and having conversations with it. Let yourself feel it and don't sink into yourself, don't let your body posture close up and suppress it, stand with belly exposed and wide-eyed and examine your pain. Challenge it. But feel it. All the way out into your fingertips. Let your mind realize what that pain is, and that there is nothing to fear. When its stops beings something you run from, your brain will no longer focus on it attentively when it arrives. It will just happen and then be gone, like a flash in the frying pan. To me, dealing with pain properly is the first step toward the type of masculinity I was talking about.

Some men, like Travis (mentioned in a previous post), were just simply born with a constitution to never feel pain the same way we do. By his nature, he was just whimsical and uncaring about other people. I don't believe this is true masculinity. It was never a journey for him. While he may have some of the positive effects of masculinity, such as success with women, he will also never face any of his greatest fears, and he will essentially live with his head in the sand, and no true appreciation for some of the really wonderful parts about vulnerability and relationships. I think real masculinity is earned, its an outcome and a process. I also believe strongly that this burden of hair loss, if approached properly, is one stepping stone toward true masculinity. It can be something that helps get us there.

But for me, it required shaving it. Burning my boats. I couldn't have ever gotten anywhere if I'd kept what I had. I had to see what I was without it in order to realize that it never mattered to me. I will never convince anyone of that through words. Its part of that experience, of just letting the fuck go. It helped me to realize that I was what I wanted to be. People would take me as I presented myself, I wasn't a canvas for them to paint their judgements on. I made their judgements in the reality I brought with me. And you'll amaze yourself at some point with how true this is. We are kind of brought up with this idea that "THIS" is what people want and you've gotta meet that standard, or you'll always be judged on it. In truth, there is no reality but that which you make for yourself and it freaks people out when someone comes along who lives in their own reality. But its also very attractive. It empowers people and inspires them and makes them feel permitted to do the same, its freeing and that is why people like it.

For the masculine, this is why insecurity is so power-stealing. Its diminishing your own reality and submitting to someone else's when everyone is secretly begging for yours to be strong, to tell them what you are. People are very capable of forming judgements and assembling an identity for you (especially in this stereotyped culture) and most people don't even realize it when its happening, but it is intensely attractive (and an intense pleasure) when you meet someone who somehow repels your click-whirr assumptions, who shows you what they are instead of you deciding what they are. They are the people who are magnetic.

But this post is already out of control, and I didn't even get to what I'd intended to from the start. But let me end for now saying that I acknowledge and respect your feelings about your loss. I've felt them, man. Too many times and shit nights of feeling like I wasn't good enough. When it finally strikes you...the only response will be to laugh joyfully. Your hair doesn't fucking matter. You are so intensely powerful, so able to create other's responses to you, so able to influence how other's see what you yourself view as a flaw...its insane.

At least for me, the process of losing my hair is probably the best thing that has ever happened. While it may suck, I have learned to deal with life on a completely different level and realize that everything is outside of me. It's a nice realization that we are dying slowly and we will not be here forever. Truly makes you worship the life that you have and live it to the fullest. It is a very similar action if I were to make a mistake and learn from it. If you fall, you learn, but this is one of those life lessons. You learn not to judge others which makes your well-being much easier to obtain. Even with that self-actualization, it is nice to learn that lesson and then grow my hair back.

Personally, I have seen how persistent this defect is and that gives me a challenge I want to overcome. I want to eventually grow my hair back, look in the mirror, and have that feeling of bliss that I succeeded in defeating this piece of shit disease. That is something we all can strive for, but I need to stay logical.

This topic got real deep. OP, to answer your question hair pieces can be extremely realistic. Many celebrities have begun using them and nobody has noticed it. There was a certain male celebrity that an overwhelming number of young girls find attractive who I used to study his hair of because he was probably the best expert at norwood coverups I've ever seen and eventually I noticed that as the years went on he eventually had to give it up and go for wigs, or at least heavy use of plugs. Now, nobody would ever notice this other than those who obsess over hair, and I think a lot of other male celebrities wear them too. So if you've got the money for a good one, I don't see any reason why not to, but I think a bald head looks better than a bad hair piece any day.

My friend's Hair Club job looked real good last time I saw it.  If I didn't know him I would not have known he was getting a weave.  If you've got the money and don't mind going to the "beauty salon" every month then go for it.

But if you have to constantly juggle your Hair Club subscription with rent, utilities, and/or baby formula, don't do it.  Learn to deal.