Advice on how to deal with self destructive behavoir?

I've been really struggling for the past few months with this. I often go to bed really late at night (2am) and wake up at 7 for work and feel like shit throughout most of my work day, I have lost most motivation to exercise or do anything beside play video games or nap. Often masturbate throughout the day and I know that can't be healthy considering how much I've been shedding lately, I'm honestly surprised I don't come out of the shower bald with how much strands of hair I see fall. I've been experiencing a lot of depressive thoughts as well and I know these are obvious signs of Depression but I really can't fork over the money right now for therapy sessions. Has anyone else battled this lazyness/lack of motivation? I really feel like this is part of the reason why my hairloss has worsened recently. I began taking supplements lately but I feel like they are doing nothing since I'm getting shitty sleep and have 0 motivation to better myself in other aspects of life. Any advice would help, I'm legit lost at this point.

Do you eat junk food? Smoke? Drink? Do drugs (even smoking dope)?

Supplements will NOT help to correct bad biochemistry brought about by crappy lifestyle habits unless you stop the bad lifestyle habits.

Also, not being able to get to sleep until late can be a sign of adrenal problems. The whole cortisol cycle gets messed up, which affects sleeping/waking rhythms.

But again, you can't correct adrenal problems (or any endocrine problems) until you form good lifestyle habits.

It's tough. I know. I've been where you are. Well, not with the masturbation, but everything else you said.

Seriously, I usually try to insert a little levity into a situation. I mean no disrespect.

It *can* get better (I'm much better that I was 10 or 15 years ago), but you're going to have to take a long hard look at your life and decide how hard you want to work to get better. Turns out some of us don't have to work so hard, once we make up our minds. Others of us have to fight for a long time to feel better. The younger you are, the better the chances of correcting the effects of bad lifestyle more easily.

But if your decision is "I don't want to give up smoking/junk food/over-indulgence in autoeroticism/drinking/drugs", then resign yourself to the status quo for now and keep mulling things over. You'll circle back around and be able to make good decisions eventually, if you just keep up with the introspection and don't give up hope.

Aeons7 - Some years back there was a thread on video games. I haven't touched them in years. Two reasons, it's hard to get anything done, and mainly they put a person in constant fight or flight mode. That really taxes the main areas that effect hair.

Then on top of that masturbation is only safe after a body health balance is achieved.

I do not eat the best diet, however there are certain foods that can affect the overall energy level (reward system).

If you can target the correct changes (and temporarily knock out) the two main problems, getting out of the rut will be much easier.

whodathunkit wrote:Do you eat junk food?  Smoke?  Drink?  Do drugs (even smoking dope)?

Supplements will NOT help to correct bad biochemistry brought about by crappy lifestyle habits unless you stop the bad lifestyle habits.  

Also, not being able to get to sleep until late can be a sign of adrenal problems.   The whole cortisol cycle gets messed up, which affects sleeping/waking rhythms.

But again, you can't correct adrenal problems (or any endocrine problems) until you form good lifestyle habits.

It's tough.  I know.  I've been where you are.  Well, not with the masturbation, but everything else you said.    

Seriously, I usually try to insert a little levity into a situation.  I mean no disrespect.

It *can* get better (I'm much better that I was 10 or 15 years ago), but you're going to have to take a long hard look at your life and decide how hard you want to work to get better.   Turns out some of us don't have to work so hard, once we make up our minds.  Others of us have to fight for a long time to feel better.  The younger you are, the better the chances of correcting the effects of bad lifestyle more easily.

But if your decision is "I don't want to give up smoking/junk food/over-indulgence in autoeroticism/drinking/drugs", then resign yourself to the status quo for now and keep mulling things over.  You'll circle back around and be able to make good decisions eventually, if you just keep up with the introspection and don't give up hope.

No drugs no alcohol no smoking i'm straight edge as hell

I do however feel like i'm a little addicted to gaming, sounds silly but I know I use it for its temporary reward system and it makes me feel good. (same goes for masturbating though)

What I have trouble figuring out is whether this depressive/addictive personality is coming from a troubled psyche or if I'm malnourished? and that's where I often find myself in a fog: is me being sad about "stuff" causing me to engage in self destructive behavior or is the self destructive behavior making me sad? and I suppose the uncertainty is just a misunderstanding of mental health

Aeons7 wrote:
No drugs no alcohol no smoking i'm straight edge as hell

I do however feel like i'm a little addicted to gaming, sounds silly but I know I use it for its temporary reward system and it makes me feel good. (same goes for masturbating though)

What I have trouble figuring out is whether this depressive/addictive personality is coming from a troubled psyche or if I'm malnourished? and that's where I often find myself in a fog: is me being sad about "stuff" causing me to engage in self destructive behavior or is the self destructive behavior making me sad?  and I suppose the uncertainty is just a misunderstanding of mental health  

First of all, how old are you? Is this the first time that these kind of behaviours appeared or you had them before, and if you did, when? At which ages? Do you have any kind of memories about "dragging" these kind of moodes throughout your life? Do they seem chronic and repeatable?

CausticSymmetry wrote:Aeons7 - Some years back there was a thread on video games. I haven't touched them in years. Two reasons, it's hard to get anything done, and mainly they put a person in constant fight or flight mode. That really taxes the main areas that effect hair.

Then on top of that masturbation is only safe after a body health balance is achieved.

I do not eat the best diet, however there are certain foods that can affect the overall energy level (reward system).

If you can target the correct changes (and temporarily knock out) the two main problems, getting out of the rut will be much easier.

How does one know when a health balanced has been achieved? obviously mood and energy are usually the big indicators but is there a scientific approach/test that would classify one as "healthy"?

I haven't reached an intense level of rigidity on these behaviors but I often coast through moments of clarity where i feel healthy and stop trying to keep that consistent.

Keanoseg wrote:

Aeons7 wrote:
No drugs no alcohol no smoking i'm straight edge as hell

I do however feel like i'm a little addicted to gaming, sounds silly but I know I use it for its temporary reward system and it makes me feel good. (same goes for masturbating though)

What I have trouble figuring out is whether this depressive/addictive personality is coming from a troubled psyche or if I'm malnourished? and that's where I often find myself in a fog: is me being sad about "stuff" causing me to engage in self destructive behavior or is the self destructive behavior making me sad?  and I suppose the uncertainty is just a misunderstanding of mental health  

First of all, how old are you? Is this the first time that these kind of behaviours appeared or you had them before, and if you did, when? At which ages? Do you have any kind of memories about "dragging" these kind of moodes throughout your life? Do they seem chronic and repeatable?

I'm 21, I've experienced this before back in sophomore year of highschool where I let my gaming ruin my GPA. I've continued gaming since then but I often contribute my poor grades in school to gaming/ lack of motivation. I remember starting to play religiously it after going through a really dramatic breakup. Sometimes it feels chronic yes which is why I worry I suppose.

Well this is going to sound stupid but there are some unresolved things than that are basically stuck into your sub-consciousness and you are dragging it for a lot of time now. I'm not trying to be a shrink here but this is what the science behind these things are and how it explains the congitive development of a person, both rational and emotional. Also, you think it is because of a breakup but it's not, it's far before it it's just that you don't remember that far and you've accredited it to that particular moment because of the stage of life you are in. It was a symptom that made it worse however your true issue here has happened somewhere during the childhood. Wheather it was some form of dissociation (were you moving places a lot when you were a kid? did you have a stable parentship? were your relationships with other kids stable back than, meaning did you have long time friends that you felt good with? Try to think about this and any kind of similar stuff a bit more, because often times it's hard to remember any of it, and focus on the period before the age of like 9,10), or some more traumatic event although I think you can rule that out because in that case your case would be much worse now. Anyway most of the time people kind of let go of life and sit in the house all day in front of the computer when they experienced these dissociative triggers, because that's what basically this is, it's just an endless pattern repeating itself since you were a very little kid. And will probably continue to do so until you find out why it happened or just deal with the symptoms and let go of it.

I've considered all those things and have thought about the relationships i've had when i was a child (lots of co-dependency)and even with those things in mind I still don't know how to approach dealing with it. Just because I have the knowledge doesn't mean I know what to do with it.

Emotions and energy can alter epigenetics (gene expression).

I literally avoid games, because this puts me in a different state (of total non productivity), then life and meaning slips away.

I've been watching this show called Bering Sea Gold. It's about gold prospecting in Alaska. There's an interesting dichotomy of the attitude of those who have hair vs those who do not.  This is not exactly scientific, however it is an interesting thing, nevertheless.

It's a relatively common thing, especially these days, many people including myself at one time were in a perpetual fog, and the energy was displaced. Too much focus was in non-productive things.

One of the changes one can experience is higher clarity, purpose, energy, etc.

Aeons7 wrote:

whodathunkit wrote:Do you eat junk food?  Smoke?  Drink?  Do drugs (even smoking dope)?

Supplements will NOT help to correct bad biochemistry brought about by crappy lifestyle habits unless you stop the bad lifestyle habits.  

Also, not being able to get to sleep until late can be a sign of adrenal problems.   The whole cortisol cycle gets messed up, which affects sleeping/waking rhythms.

But again, you can't correct adrenal problems (or any endocrine problems) until you form good lifestyle habits.

It's tough.  I know.  I've been where you are.  Well, not with the masturbation, but everything else you said.    

Seriously, I usually try to insert a little levity into a situation.  I mean no disrespect.

It *can* get better (I'm much better that I was 10 or 15 years ago), but you're going to have to take a long hard look at your life and decide how hard you want to work to get better.   Turns out some of us don't have to work so hard, once we make up our minds.  Others of us have to fight for a long time to feel better.  The younger you are, the better the chances of correcting the effects of bad lifestyle more easily.

But if your decision is "I don't want to give up smoking/junk food/over-indulgence in autoeroticism/drinking/drugs", then resign yourself to the status quo for now and keep mulling things over.  You'll circle back around and be able to make good decisions eventually, if you just keep up with the introspection and don't give up hope.

No drugs no alcohol no smoking i'm straight edge as hell

I do however feel like i'm a little addicted to gaming, sounds silly but I know I use it for its temporary reward system and it makes me feel good. (same goes for masturbating though)

What I have trouble figuring out is whether this depressive/addictive personality is coming from a troubled psyche or if I'm malnourished? and that's where I often find myself in a fog: is me being sad about "stuff" causing me to engage in self destructive behavior or is the self destructive behavior making me sad?  and I suppose the uncertainty is just a misunderstanding of mental health  

It's so hard distinguishing the reasons you're doing things, if it's compulsions or addictions or just desires. The mind is so crazy.

Aeons, for me, diet is the foundation.  Once I've got myself straightened out, I can get away with eating some crap and still do okay.  

But as long as I'm in the throes of a crisis, I need to eat very healthy for a while.  Worth noting is that eating crap exclusively for a protracted period of time can put me into crisis all by itself.

The good nutrition of a consistently healthy diet seems to help not only because it's better for the bod, but it seems to allow the supplements to work better in the short term, too.

I don't know what your diet is like but you might want to try eating really healthy (whatever works best for you) for a couple of months, along with exerting some effort to avoid your semi-compulsive self-destructive behaviors for that same period of time.

I don't know what your exercise regimen is like but you might try consistently blowing off some steam there somehow, too.

Then after a couple of months evaluate how you're doing.   See if you need to try a new approach/different diet/different supplements, or if you're doing better.

CausticSymmetry wrote:I've been watching this show called Bering Sea Gold. It's about gold prospecting in Alaska. There's an interesting dichotomy of the attitude of those who have hair vs those who do not. This is not exactly scientific, however it is an interesting thing, nevertheless.

Can you 'splain a little, please?

Aeons7 wrote:I've considered all those things and have thought about the relationships i've had when i was a child (lots of co-dependency)and even with those things in mind I still don't know how to approach dealing with it. Just because I have the knowledge doesn't mean I know what to do with it.

Well it is very case specific and pretty much impossible to deal with on your own simply because you don't have that objective outsider side that guides you. You can go to a few sessions of psychotherapy without engaging in any meds, just so that the M.D. tries to "read" your mind through body language and speech patterns etc, trying to isolate different states and emotions through emotional triggers. All of that is very safe and they can figure out where was the problem really quick, in just 2,3 sessions. Then they have a sort of a "guideline" for you on what to exactly do/how to approach it so you reach your unified state of functionality and happines, im just blabbling words now I don't know how to call that. But yes the mind is crazy. More than we'll ever know probably.

CausticSymmetry wrote:
Emotions and energy can alter epigenetics (gene expression).

I literally avoid games, because this puts me in a different state (of total non productivity), then life and meaning slips away.

I've been watching this show called Bering Sea Gold. It's about gold prospecting in Alaska. There's an interesting dichotomy of the attitude of those who have hair vs those who do not. This is not exactly scientific, however it is an interesting thing, nevertheless.

It's a relatively common thing, especially these days, many people including myself at one time were in a perpetual fog, and the energy was displaced. Too much focus was in non-productive things.

One of the changes one can experience is higher clarity, purpose, energy, etc.

That is very interesting. The problem with all of that is that is very complex and impossible to disect. A lot of things influence epigenetics and the other way around, we are just currently stuck in an age of being consciouss of all that is happening and all that is possible but we still don't understand it fully and can't manipulate it. It is interesting that you mentioned games , and meaning, and these other things too because so much things are still unexplained here. For example, games bring momentary joy and fullfilness of a sort, a sense of achievement, it is a digital one however so is achievement. Everything you do in life that makes you feel that purpose and that fills you with confidence is just a digital imprint in your brain. Anyway all of this things could be talked about for a long time and it's not even exact science anymore but a mix of science/philosophy and god knows what, that's why I said that so much things are left unexplored and can't be isolated. This is good. This is bad. That is a very tricky business.

CS: I too have noticed a pattern amongst my friends, between those that are balding and those that have healthy hair. A lot of them have trouble focusing pretty much an ADHD like behavior which I also see in myself.

Keanoseg: I've done therapy before, I suffered through some intense anxiety a few years back but its such a costly thing to continue at a consistent basis.

Whodathunkit: Diet and exercise usually gave me some added peace currently struggling to get up and just effing do it. I'll get there though since i've done it before.

I wonder how many others suffer mentally on these forums and attribute that to hairloss?

Aeons7 wrote:
CS: I too have noticed a pattern amongst my friends, between those that are balding and those that have healthy hair. A lot of them have trouble focusing pretty much an ADHD like behavior which I also see in myself.

Keanoseg: I've done therapy before, I suffered through some intense anxiety a few years back but its such a costly thing to continue at a consistent basis.

Whodathunkit: Diet and exercise usually gave me some added peace currently struggling to get up and just effing do it. I'll get there though since i've done it before.

I wonder how many others suffer mentally on these forums and attribute that to hairloss?

Yeah, the thing is, therapies differ. And you have to find the one type that you need. Were you dealing with anxiety only by adressing the symptoms or did you find out what was causing it?

The last question you said I think is pretty important.
And I want to say this especially to CS. You're awesome, very widely knowledgable in all areas of the field. I just want to say that you having this forum, you are not only dealing with people's hair loss here, but you are dealing with mild and severe forms of personality disorders here daily, but I think you know this by now. Aeons I don't think anyone attributes it to hair loss I think that it's all the things inside you make you focus all of that rage and negative energy of all sorts into hair loss and suddenly you have this feeling that you just can't relax and live your life knowing that you are balding. It feels like the most drastic change of all. Like you are losing something that you had for all your life, and in lot of ways it's the same disasociative system that I already described. If it weren't disasociative, it wouldn't cause those kind of emotions and states when people look themselves in the mirror or think about balding. I mean think about it, you literally have to start saying "Goodbye" again but this time to something that is literally a physical part of you , and you have to potentially do that for good... And that ain't healthy in any way, anything regarding hair loss, both physical and mental is just anti-human. I think why hair loss is so "hard" is because you put all your problems/rage/negative energy/suffering and pain/depression/fear and anxiety into just one thing that you keep seeing everyday and not a day goes by that you don't think about it.

When my biochemistry is more normal (when I'm eating right and exercising and taking in the right nutrients via supplementation or food) my psychological problems just don't bother me as much.  I'm able to deal with them better, and instinctively respond constructively to situations that, when I'm not functioning well, can derail me.

An extreme shock (like the loss of a love, which has walloped me in the past) can cause a physiologic reaction which can negatively affect the psychological state.   Improving physical health/biochemistry can have the opposite (beneficial) effect.

When your physical health is good and your biochemistry is balanced, your psychological health can frequently take care of itself.   Especially if you're young.

I would at least try diet/lifestyle modification along with therapy.   Or even before therapy.   If you improve your biochemistry you might decide you don't need any help after all.   And unless you have some disorder like PTSD where a diagnosis might answer some questions, a therapist may or may not be any help at all.  I've never gotten much out of them and usually have gotten more out of my own self-help than them.   Plus, nearly 100% of therapists, if a person presents with the symptoms you describe, will suggest anti-depressants by the end of the first session.  If they can't prescribe they'll offer to send you to a doctor to get a script.  I don't even think of going to one any more.

However, they can be helpful, especially for a short term vent.

This is an interesting topic. I've had the opportunity to reflect about this for a very long time.

If I were to compare my minds eye, thoughts or attitudes, perceptions, confidence -- all those things at the time when I was struggling with the hair at its worst and then think of how I was and am post hair recovery, it's really quite profound.

I think it's also worth mentioning that many of us who have struggled with hair loss in the past or the present time do have various challenges regarding various psychological traumas. These including everything from brain fog, to "ADHD", "ADD", anxiety, focus challenges, motivational challenges, lack of enthusiasm, social challenges, it's really all over the map.

The good news though is that these types of attitudes or perceptions can be changed. My personal belief is/was shaped by observing others transform to their former confidence selves after undergoing different changes (sometimes diet, sometimes metal detoxification, dental revision, sometimes even methylation optimization.

It's been observed also from a purely conventional standpoint that many people can find themselves more productive, especially in the morning if they drink coffee or some type of caffeinated beverage since this blocks adenosine. Adenosine can inhibit "happy" neurotransmitters. It's been observed, not surprisingly the productive people frequently get into a caffeine habit.

Anyway, getting back the top paragraph, optimizing the thyroid and the hypothalamic pitutiary adrenal axis is a cornerstone stone to recovery.

When I was in my late 20's (Mid-90's), hair loss was at its absolute worst, even then I was taking a bunch of natural 5-AR inhibitors to slow down the damage. It was dark era, energy was low, get up and go was low, everything seemed to require too much effort. I wondered at the time how people even functioned. I was in doors at the time a lot (too much).
My diet was crap too.

whodathunkit - You asked me to explain the "Bering Sea Gold" people/miners.

From the view point or perspective of our hair being an extension/part of the nervous system. Based on the medical literature, it really is. The hair follicle itself a very complex organ system, which literally and does produce various hormones, including nervous system hormones (cortisol, prolactin, and source of various neuromediators).

Trends Mol Med. 2014 Jul 21. pii: S1471-4914(14)00098-7.

J Invest Dermatol. 2014 Jan;134(1):33-42

This research goes back to around 2006 when it was first discovered that human hair follicles are miniature organs systems, capable of producing hormones as well as being targeted/affected by stress hormones.

So what does that have to do with the gold miners in this series? I noticed that the majority of the successful, confident (go getter types) tended to hair good heads of hair (a coincidence? maybe). However, the ones who were more on shaky ground, seemed to have receded hair lines. This is not exactly a perfect experiment, just made me wonder about it.

@CS, a lot of that can also be attributed to the halo effect, though. Those who are more attractive are given more positive feedback in life which would likely spill over towards making these people more sure of themselves, and maybe even more lighthearted too because the world seems a kinder place. For those who don't know of the halo effect read the wiki article, fascinating stuff, but also a bit depressing in a way. I think regardless if it helps hair though we should all strive to be confident of course, and personally, I've always struggled with anxiety and have definitely been through some stuff that's messed with my psyche and I probably have some of the most aggressive mpb in my age group so the link is definitely there.

@OP, Try journaling. I started when I began noticing the days passing by as a blur and finding myself unable to distinguish one day from the next. I was existing, but I wasn't living. Once I started making daily entries, where I did not censor myself or my thoughts at all, I began to get a clearer picture of where I was at mentally, and what I was filling my hours with each day. I view it as a daily debriefing, and it's both a place to plan for the next day(s) and reflect upon the last, or even just something you've tossed around in your head for ages that just needs to be released. Please give this a try, it helped me and you may find that you're surprisingly really out of touch with yourself.

CS, I see what you mean. But IMO it may be that the ones who are more confident just have better biochemistry in the first place. That is, they're not neurotic because they don't have the hormone imbalances that predispose one to both hairloss and neurosis in the first place. Chicken or egg?

whodathunkit wrote:CS, I see what  you mean.   But IMO it may be that the ones who are more confident just have better biochemistry in the first place.  That is, they're not neurotic because they don't have the hormone imbalances that predispose one to both hairloss and neurosis in the first place.   Chicken or egg?  

That makes perfect sense I think.

That's really what this who hair loss thing is about, balancing biochemistry/physiology and the neuro endocrine system.

IMO.

Every long term change has gone through repetition of acts that consequences were in favour of getting there. Even in most unlinear natural changes, there are ''warnings'' as indicators before the change. In health it's harmony of different factors that involve nutrition, all the other aspects, and also ''the mental thing''. I can't seperate the first and last world in terms of importance, but do think one with out the other will be producing bad/unsatisfactory results.

I strongly believe that hidden emotional traumas are stealers of free flow that life can afford, creating tension and stress from everyday situations inducing lies, breaking your overall coherence. Stress detunes your life choice making by bringing in insecurity, worthlessness and lack of counsciousness by experiencing fillings as fear, anger, shame, etc. It can ruin your intentions and bring you down to negative feedback that results in one step closer to self destruction.

What i try to connect it with in order to see some anti-parallels, is ability to learn new things and as CS said it also ability to focus. We are changing all the time, reshaping our brain by introducing the processing of the current moment. While i dont speak hair-loss here, it's interesting to me that all the learning involves chellange to your focus, upper brain functions, but mostly exposing and uncover your true self.  It's why it's harder to practice things you are not as good at that by definition uncovers ones insecurities, while amount of challenge in doing things you are great at result in more pleasing outcome more likely. It's possible to improve in all the directions, while managing the expectations for the progress in the future, but it not effortless process. In my case, most time was lost in hiding the obvious problems, i've had. It mostly was not about hairloss. Since there are a very few on the planet who can take care of your hair, doing it naturally it's safe to keep in mind you are doing the job your MD, or dr. when try to treat your hairloss using natural substances. This said, it's pretty obvious why there is no positive results from a lot of people here.

Mental thing and monitoring experiences.
I know it's a difference in my voice tone whether i lose a tennis match or win it. Or better said, i can disappoint myself regardless of the result, but i am rarely disappointed about my game (myself), if i win. Since it's not all in my head, but there are also other characters involved, this brings attention to the more slippery terrain - social involvement and competition. Regardless of the later, feeding yourself with positive feedback on a daily basis where the training is done, is what brings results or improvement. So if i play better the next day, i recover and get over, and i am well again. Confidence is rechargeable. Thus said, i don't think curving up and down is a very important thing as far as the long term curve is not affected too much. But sometimes experiences result in so much stress that dealing with the issues should receive special attention, to find the way around it or over it. Emotional trauma is induced. This also means we are living in an illusion of who we really are, monitoring just current moment, that results in feelings we experience, and trust it as the primal or worse as the only indicator. I find, and this is not very scientific, the people using SSRIs and other behaviour altering drugs as the ones who take this indicator very strong and the most isolated one. The most important for them is how they feel... Maybe my n=too small, but i seriously quit talking with some people about this subject is hitting ball against the wall. I started to think i am talking with substance, not a person, lol.

To connect it a bit with hair and supplements. I do think it's the same here. One have to educate himself enough to make the daily practice of it ''mostly right'', with no (or occasional) cheating. To set the curve up towards lowering inflammation and increasing regeneration capabilities. Will the hair regrow on it's own? Unlikely you ''train'' it on a daily basis, i dont think so. Using just a diet bring a lot of in-certainty into the equation, so supplements are a bit - a must. One cant expect drug-like result in treating hairloss, using ''natural approach'' and dosing his expectations on regrowth beyond real, or can get into very imbalanced mental state that will result in weakening in some other areas.


This means i want to say also, it's very slippery to monitor experiences while taking random supplement, especially when mood can be inversely correlated with long term health, experiencing herx, or increased symptoms due changes in physiology. And about the herx, i dont think if one dont know how to manage it, it's most likely inversely correlated with health - short and long termed.

I think this video is worth looking into to help explain some of the ''mental'' thing i am talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L0st-AAk78

So is this (it will take you time):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L0st-AAk78

I am in agreement with CS about caffeine totally, and it's my experience also. However, like any other substance, it should be taken with your own manual of how and when to take it. The quality also counts.

While this thread is about ''mental'' and HPA-axis exploration, i found this link useful.

http://www.neurosciencemyths.com/hypothalamic_pituitary_axis_methylation_epinephrine.htm

Beebrox - In regards to the videos posted, the lecturer made a point of stress being a key indicator above all.

I wanted to mention that one feature of heavy metal detox is that the burden of stress substantially lifts. From a hair loss perspective, the ability to deal with stress (the ease from one person to another). There is also the generally non-recognized association between dental work and depression within the orthodox arena.

Many with a mouth full of different alloys/metals, especially mercury will effect their ability to handle stress.

One way to measure this is the cortisol to testosterone ratio or the inverse of this. The higher the cortisol level, relevant to to testosterone, the heavier the stress burden will be.

Having a high testosterone level and relatively low cortisol (not below normal) is a perfect condition to withstand stress. This condition promotes calm. It's also pro-hair.

The opposite condition, a low testosterone, high cortisol raises inflammatory conditions, high stress, lowers the immune system.

Yes, i realize it's hard to compete with metals in terms of stress that destroys the cell, but still find place for behavioral stress that could be dealt not with supplements, but behavior. It's hard to be smart of how contributing is particular indicator, this is why i started it with IMO. I mostly give credit to Sapolsky for what he talks about, realizing there is more to the story. I wanted to point out quality (health) decision making comes from different sources, that involve learning and managing overall stress.

Some info about the metals:and other neuro-toxins, we are bathed in daily.

Beebrox wrote:Yes, i realize it's hard to compete with metals in terms of stress that destroys the cell, but still find place for behavioral stress that could be dealt not with supplements, but behavior. It's hard to be smart of how contributing is particular indicator, this is why i started it with IMO. I mostly give credit to Sapolsky for what he talks about, realizing there is more to the story. I wanted to point out quality (health) decision making comes from different sources, that involve learning and managing overall stress.

Some info about the metals:and other neuro-toxins, we are bathed in daily.

Great list of stuff Beebrox