"the antioxidant paradox"

4039 and others, I'm curious as to what you make of the popular strategy here of supplementing with antioxidant boost and seanol. It's undeniable that many here have had great results with one or both of these, but do you think that their use is bad for our overall health in the long-term? Or that a more natural and regulatory approach is just a better alternative?

I've been reading up on many articles concerning the antioxidant paradox (i.e. how free radicals can be just as good and bad as antioxidants when out of balance).... But there's more research that is showing that too many antioxidants creates an unnatural state in which the immune system is not needed as much and eventually compromised to harmful invaders. Here's the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/opinion/sunday/dont-take-your-vitamins.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Although I found the above article interesting concerning the supplement industry history, research conducted with people who took large doses of certain vitamins and the need to maintain a proper balance between antioxidants and free radicals, the article was a bit too skewed in the anti-vitamin direction in my opinion. After all, most people here know that supplementing with isolated vitamins like beta-carotene or E isn't a good idea... For recent research showing the benefits of a low-dose, daily mutlivitamin (i.e. RDA doses) see this article entitiled "Can a Vitamin a Day Keep Cancer Away": http://www.iforumrx.org/node/157 which references this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23162860

As a 20 year-old who is taking a lot of antioxidants and gets sick a fair amount of time, I'm starting to question whether I should really be taking 3 fibroboosts, 2 antioxidant boosts, 1 tocosorb, 1 400mg EGCg/green tea extract, 1 500mg of biotin a day, even when combined with a balancing multivitamin, and if I over-doing it...thoughts?

This thread should address these concerns.

https://immortalhair.forumotion.com/t9689-too-much-antioxidants

Thanks immortal – that exercise-supplement relationship is interesting. Do you have any more info to share about the immune system's relationship to antioxidant supplements (whether isolated, plant-based, in general, etc.)? I can't find much on it, but I may be looking in the wrong places...or not exactly know what to look for

masterofnone wrote:Thanks immortal – that exercise-supplement relationship is interesting. Do you have any more info to share about the immune system's relationship to antioxidant supplements (whether isolated, plant-based, in general, etc.)? I can't find much on it, but I may be looking in the wrong places...or not exactly know what to look for

Probably the best way to distinguish the difference between basic antioxidants and plant based ones is how it affects the environment (milieu) between the immune systems as needed by the body vs the modulation of the plant based variety.

For example, some fat soluble antioxidants have receptor sites that work in tandem as a matrix to effect some enzymes or immune function. Sometimes if there is an isolated (especially synthetic variety), of a vitamin-based antioxidant it may compromise the system causing some strange results. This is where sometimes negative results can be produced.

Plant based varieties work with the body can require less guess-work. They can activate enzymes systems or protein pathways that have literally hundreds of beneficial effects.

The media will report findings of a single isolated and synthetic form of vitamin E, rather than a natural complex of the vitamin E family (tocopherols and tocotrienols). The action of say, an isolated form of dl-tocopherol (alpha) can suppress the absorption and action of the more powerful form of tocotrienols, some 30 times more powerful for the immune system.

So a large dose of a single isolate nutrient can cause diminishing returns.

CausticSymmetry wrote: The action of say, an isolated form of dl-tocopherol (alpha) can suppress the absorption and action of the more powerful form of tocotrienols, some 30 times more powerful for the immune system.

Absorption from food? Or from taking toco + alpha alone, as opposed toco + vitamin e complex?

Let's say if you took 1,000 mg of Dl-alpha tocopherol (that's the synthetic Delta fraction) and then took either with food or as a supplement, very small amounts of tocotrienols. The later would be reduced from complete action and absorption.

CausticSymmetry wrote:Let's say if you took 1,000 mg of Dl-alpha tocopherol (that's the synthetic Delta fraction) and then took either with food or as a supplement, very small amounts of tocotrienols. The later would be reduced from complete action and absorption.

Oh, missed the l there, thanks for the clarification.

On a heavy weight lifting day would you say skip the Antioxidants all together?

What about on a 20 minute HIIT cardio day?

NYJets wrote:On a heavy weight lifting day would you say skip the Antioxidants all together?

What about on a 20 minute HIIT cardio day?

It depends on the type. During workouts, just avoid vitamins C and E:

Here's an explanation on others during exercise:

Plant based antioxidants, as a example are very different. It is necessary to understand that greater production of antioxidant enzymes will be generated after exercise, which could be thwarted by taking C or E (direct antioxidants during that process).

In a plant based antioxidant, it actually enhances the exercise benefit, recovery and antioxidant enzyme production potential. Plant based antioxidants work primarily indirectly and also through modulation. They can switch genes (epigentically on or off).

Here are some examples:

Does Ecklonia Cava offer any exercising benefits?

Supplementation with ecklonia cava has been shown to increase the amount of time that one may exercise until muscle exhaustion (2.39 min) as compared with the placebo. This result was accompanied by a 6.5% higher mean VO(2max) in the ecklonia cava group. The blood glucose level in the ecklonia cava group at 3 minutes post-exhaustive exercise was significantly higher than that of the placebo group (+ 9.9%). In addition, the post-exercise blood lactate levels in the ecklonia cava group showed a decreasing trend as compared with placebo. Based on these results, it is speculated that the supplementation of ecklonia cava may have contributed to enhanced oxidation of glucose, and less production of lactate during intense exercise. This may be due to ecklonia cava's free-radical scavenging and pro-circulatory activities.

Does Antioxidant Boost offer exercise benefits?

Sulforaphane has been shown in mice to provide a significant increase in nuclear erythroid 2 p45-related factor 2 expression, and correlated with a significant increase in total antioxidant capacity and a decrease in plasma lactate dehydrogenase and creatine phosphokinase activities under conditions of exhaustive exercise. In layman's terms, sulforaphane serves as an indirect antioxidant in skeletal muscle, and protects skeletal muscle against damage during exhaustive exercise.

Curcumin has been shown to protect against exercise induced muscle damage.

Research on mice has demonstrated that trans-resveratrol improved exercise performance by 100%. Human studies suggest that trans-resveratrol would also be beneficial with respect to exercise performance, which may be due to a boost in mitochondrial function.

Does Stabilized R-Lipic Acid offer any exercise benefits?

The combination of exercise training, and antioxidant treatment using lipoic acid in an animal model of obesity-associated insulin resistance, has demonstrated a unique interactive effect that was shown to result in a greater improvement in insulin action on skeletal muscle glucose transport than either intervention individually. Moreover, this interactive effect of exercise training and lipoic acid is due in part to improvements in IRS-1-dependent insulin signaling. This research highlights the effectiveness of combining endurance exercise training along with antioxidants in beneficially modulating the molecular defects in insulin action observed in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle.

Great info thanks CS.

I have long been an advocate of moderation and balance among everything in ones life, even if I struggle with actually doing it in my own life at times. Too much of anything can be bad for us, and that includes those things we typically consider good for us. I don't believe that anything would have been created in the universe if it didn't have a purpose and a place. We would not have free radicals in our body if they didn't have some form or function in our system. Too many free radicals can be bad, I would agree with this. However, to many antioxidants can also be bad I am sure.