DO NOT TAKE CURCUMIN

[frapin]

In order to reduce my inflammation I started taking Turmeric Force by New Chapter. I was pleasantly surprised that it also had positive effects on my heartburn and nocturnal erections. It quickly became a favorite supplement... until I read that Curcumin, the active component in Turmeric causes INFERTILITY

Just do a simple google search for "curcumin contraceptive" and/or "curcumin infertility".

I am just really shocked now. I cannot believe that I have been taking this stuff for around 2 years. I have no idea what damage has been done to me.

I also find it very very surprising that this stuff is being recommended by many people just like that without any warnings.

[Amaranthaceae]

Curcumin made me shed, and stress.

[CausticSymmetry]

Where's the research?

I see the opposite when I look, such as ameliorative effects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22257170

[AS54]

I have never seen a piece of research that didn't show a protective role for curcumin in both the male and female reproductive tract from damage from many types of chemicals, heavy metals, carcinoma or adenoma. I have yet to find a piece of research showing a negative effect on male fertility.

[frapin]

I had couple of links that I wanted to post but since I am a new member I was not allowed to post.

Why don't you try this? In the ncbi link that you posted replace the numbers at the end with the below 2 numbers and you can see 2 links

1) 21337449

2) 14561543

[CausticSymmetry]

Okay, let's clarify....(I posted one of the studies below) This is not an oral dose of curcumin.

The methode proposed in the study was performed intravaginally, so we are speaking of 30 to 300 grams (with a G) as an incubator...not by mouth.

I've been using curcumin (orally) for quite a while (it hasn't failed to prevent pregnancies)...but forget about me for a second....It's been used in Ayurvedic medicine for 4,000 years...a staple spice and in an entire nation does not affect pregnancy rates.

Contraception. 2003 Sep;68(3):219-23.
Curcumin: a potential vaginal contraceptive.
Rithaporn T, Monga M, Rajasekaran M.

Division of Urology (8897), University of California, San Diego, 200 West Arbor Drive, San Diego, CA 92103-8897, USA.

The purpose of this investigation was to evaluate the sperm-immobilizing effects of curcumin, a plant-derived diferuloylmethane compound. Washed human healthy sperm were suspended in Ham's F10 and exposed to varying concentrations of curcumin. Sperm motility was evaluated and changes in sperm mitochondrial transmembrane potential (MTP) was quantified by flow cytometry. Incubation of normal human sperm with curcumin resulted in a dose- and time-dependent loss of sperm motility. At lower concentrations (30 g/mL), curcumin produced a significant (20%) decrease in sperm motility within 30 min without significant effects on sperm viability. An instantaneous (>50%) loss of sperm motility was observed with higher concentrations (300 g/mL) of curcumin and a total loss of sperm motility was achieved within 60 min. A significant reduction in sperm MTP was found with all doses of curcumin tested. Our results indicate that curcumin has a selective sperm-immobilizing effect, in addition to a previously studied anti-HIV property. This compound may have potential clinical applications as a novel intravaginal spermicidal agent for contraception and HIV prevention.

[frapin]

Thanks for the explanation IH but honestly though when you read such research articles it is really scary.

I really loved Turmeric Force as it was helping with my heartburn and nocturnal erections but I got very scared after reading some of the links. The first link actually talks about using Curcumin as a contraceptive  

Just like you I also had the same question - if Curcumin is so anti fertile then how come India is the second most populous country in the word? Turmeric (Curcumin) is a spice that is used in Indian cooking.

I am still in double mind about continuing with Turmeric Force. I really want to use it but I am also scared because I am not married and I want kids at some point in the future.

Also, my stupid doctor prescribed me 2400mg of Fish Oil as part of regimen to control my Diabetes and now I am learning that Fish Oil and Krill Oil actually reduces the body's ability to regulate blood sugar  I was shocked to read this and researched more and that is when I found about Curcumin as well.

[CausticSymmetry]

Blood sugar starts to take a hit at about 3 to 4 grams of fish oil. As for krill a 1,000 mg (especially with the astaxanthin) will actually help blood sugar.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3369862/

"The supplementation of a high-fat diet with 2.5% Krill Oil efficiently prevented triglyceride and cholesterol accumulation in liver of treated rats. This effect was accompanied by a parallel reduction of the plasma levels of triglycerides and glucose and by the prevention of a plasma insulin increase."

[AS54]

Even at the lower 30 g/ml dose...that's an out of this world amount to consider achieving with oral administration. I can't even imagine how large of a dose it would require to concentrate the semen with thirty grams per mil. I think it emphasizes an important point, that you have to look at the methods closely when you see the title/abstract. Unfortunately the media is terrible about using scare tactics that only emphasize the study findings, not the specifics/context. I could see a news headline right now: "Curcumin found to sterilize men".

[frapin]

AS54, it is too bad I am not able to post links.

There is another person that wondered about this exact thing and had posted his thoughts. And right below his article a woman named Shawna Baruh had commented:

"My husband had a vasectomy reversal four months ago. He was taking aleve for the swelling the first couple months and his sperm count was normal. He switched to taking turmeric supplements the past two months and though it kept his pain and swelling away it also made his sperm count and motility extremely low. He is going to stop taking the turmeric and hopefully can begin to get his sperm count up."

How would you react to such a comment?

[rofl]

30 grams per ml????

does he ejaculate rocks?

[AS54]

30 grams per ml????

does he ejaculate rocks?

At any rate it would be a gorgeous sunset gold ejaculate.

Frapin,

I wouldn't respond to it. It doesn't demand a response I don't think. There are a couple of reasons for that:

1) anecdotal evidence; there is no way to verify whether this is valid information, accurate information, or specific information in the sense that there are literally countless numbers of variables other than turmeric that may have been effecting his sperm
2) anecdotal evidence always brings out the outliers, meaning if we look at the experience of taking turmeric like a bell curve, anecdotal evidence is always going to cause the people at the far left and right to be noticed because their experience was more sensational
3) both of the above reasons combine: i've got no way to prove whether her claim is true, there is no one to verify that its true, it is pointing out a loose correlation and assuming causation, it is certainly an outlier case and extremely unlikely to occur in my situation (although possible, and I'd take that more seriously if there was research to back it up)

This is why we need research studies, and more than one with study groups that are sufficient sample sizes. They eliminate these problems, and if not all of them at least some of them.

This always reminds me of the cigarette example. It happens so often, and it doesn't matter what crowd. Somebody mentions how terrible smoking is, or they need to quit, or they wish you'd quit, etc. Someone always chimes in with "Oh I had an (insert relative) who lived to be 98 and smoked since he was 16". These types of arguments should never make anyone think "Oh, well then I'm safe". Again if its true isn't even the point. Assuming its true, this man would still be a severe outlier, something you can't predict, who throws off statistics. Don't approach anything counting on being the outlier.

[frapin]

AS54 thanks for the nice explanation.

I love Curcumin. I have been using it for the past 2 years and simply cannot be without it. I really want to be able to continue using Curcumin for a long long time. But then again all these articles and posts concerned me a lot and that is why I thought I can post here and get some opinions.

That woman might be an outlier. But if you read the below it kinda makes sense right?

"Curcumin has some activity at inhibiting 17beta-HSD3, the enzyme catalyzing the final step of testosterone biosynthesis. It is unclear how substantial this effect is, however it could potentially lead to reduced testosterone levels."

Since I can't post links I request you to look up this fact and let me know your thoughts.

[CausticSymmetry]

Curcumin helps mitigate some very vicious metals that cause endocrine disruption.

In light of the fact that virtually everyone tested for BPA (Bisphenol-a), and other xenoestrogens are off the charts..and even more alarming, very high levels of glyphosate from Round Up ready soak crops hits testicular function rats sharply.

Meanwhile curcumin has a nice inhibitory activity over 17-beta estradiol, and helps mitigate toxic trace elements such as aluminum and many others.

When one considers that many things, (oxygen, water and other things can be deadly at certain levels), it really qualifies a question...what is the appropriate level (benefit vs. risk)?

[whodathunkit]

I wonder if the study frapin was talking about, if they were trying for some kind of contraceptive effect...?

[CausticSymmetry]

I wonder if the study frapin was talking about, if they were trying for some kind of contraceptive effect...?

Yes, I think that was the aim (a high dose)...And that dose is so high, the side-effects definitely can occur.

[rofl]

what is the appropriate level (benefit vs. risk)?



^this, everything causes problems at high dose. the trick is to find the balance between detrimental effects and effectiveness. this is why we graph the dose response curve.

[AS54]

I agree with the last few posts. And just to add to the mix, its really important to consider tradeoffs.

The reason why biochemistry is its own discipline separate from other areas of chemistry is the complexity of life functions. All of cellular biology is at its heart a chemical reaction. The problem/miracle of life is that it isn't in a test tube. All of the reactions and their participants are always acting in a milieu of other factors that all interact with and influence each other. Nothing is occurring in isolation or independently. When you consider the fact that each cell is undergoing a couple of thousand of its own chemical reactions every second, and that all of these are influenced by products/reactants of each other, the picture becomes incredibly complicated. It would take 100 lifetimes (and probably a mind superior to humans') to begin to get the multi-variate web clear.

All of this is to say that almost anything you put in your body could have an effect you would consider positive in one instance, but in another instance it may be negative. Save for those things we know the body needs and has evolved to integrate into most of its functions (something like vitamin C), anything that the body doesn't "need" for survival probably has the potential to be negative and positive simultaneously. Even vitamin C at the right dose can be bad, as it precipitates as oxalates, at least in the ascorbic acid form. This is really the merit of orthomolecular medicine, the idea being to medicate the body with those things we are reasonably sure the body requires, because anything it doesn't require is going to have negative consequences despite all of its positive ones.

So for anything like curcumin or a host of other substances, you have to weigh the good against the bad (as far as we are aware of both of them). Do the benefits outweigh the risks? Are the positives of this substance great enough that I'd risk the negatives? For me, curcumin passes that test.

[scottyc33]

In order to reduce my inflammation I started taking Turmeric Force by New Chapter. I was pleasantly surprised that it also had positive effects on my heartburn and nocturnal erections. It quickly became a favorite supplement... until I read that Curcumin, the active component in Turmeric causes INFERTILITY

Just do a simple google search for "curcumin contraceptive" and/or "curcumin infertility".

I am just really shocked now. I cannot believe that I have been taking this stuff for around 2 years. I have no idea what damage has been done to me.

I also find it very very surprising that this stuff is being recommended by many people just like that without any warnings.

Over a billion Indians on the planet would suggest otherwise...

[frapin]

One of the reasons I am so paranoid is because 2 years ago I was diagnosed as having Insulin Resistance because my Blood Sugar levels had just crossed 100 mg/dL. My doctor immediately put me on Metformin and also said I need to take 4000mg of Fish Oil every single day. Out of the 4000mg he said that at least 2400mg should definitely be EPA and DHA. Fast forward some time and I go for another blood test and now my Blood Sugar levels were 165 mg/dL  

I did some research and found that Fish Oil can raise Blood Sugar levels.... and that really shocked me and got worried. That's when I read about Curcumin and freaked out because along with the Fish Oils I had also been taking Curcumin for the past 2 years.

[CausticSymmetry]

Curcumin will improve insulin regulation and liver protection.

[scottyc33]

One of the reasons I am so paranoid is because 2 years ago I was diagnosed as having Insulin Resistance because my Blood Sugar levels had just crossed 100 mg/dL. My doctor immediately put me on Metformin and also said I need to take 4000mg of Fish Oil every single day. Out of the 4000mg he said that at least 2400mg should definitely be EPA and DHA. Fast forward some time and I go for another blood test and now my Blood Sugar levels were 165 mg/dL  

I did some research and found that Fish Oil can raise Blood Sugar levels.... and that really shocked me and got worried. That's when I read about Curcumin and freaked out because along with the Fish Oils I had also been taking Curcumin for the past 2 years.

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/09/restore-keep-insulin-sensitivity-part.html

[frapin]

Thanks IH

I read that you have mentioned only high dose Fish Oils cause Blood Sugar spikes. What is considered a safe limit if I plan to take Fish Oil daily? Also is long term use of Fish Oil (in moderate amounts) safe?

[CausticSymmetry]

Thanks IH

I read that you have mentioned only high dose Fish Oils cause Blood Sugar spikes. What is considered a safe limit if I plan to take Fish Oil daily? Also is long term use of Fish Oil (in moderate amounts) safe?

Here is a general guide I wrote on Diabetes (The information will eventually be updated to placed on another site).

http://web.archive.org/web/20120423075129/http://healthyfixx.com/plan/8/reversing-type-2-diabetes-naturally

About the fish oil. It's really about the dose, and there can be a lot of "hair splitting" on the ideal amount or type of fatty acids, what form etc.

Also the reason for taking it...

I take it in the form of krill oil. There's a few reasons why...(more about that later).

The benefit of taking some fish oil (doesn't have to be all that much) is to positively affect telomeres.
You won't read this almost anywhere (instead, you'll read scare tactics by news media or authors of studies with different ideas).

I take krill oil to put a positive spin on PGD2 for hair) and to slow down my aging clock. That means that this stuff stimulates the production of enzymes to reduce the attrition of telomeres.

Just gram....why take more? It's not necessary.

There are other factors

As for the Krill....I prefer it for several reasons....it has phospholipids (a nutrient in itself), good for cell membranes (usually easier to digest), and contains a nice antioxidant.

[frapin]

Excellent article. Can you also provide the links for part 2?

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