Re: Quick paranoia post (just started brushing): Could vigorous brushing cause permanent damage to follicles, or is it pretty much decided to be beneficial?

Xenon Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:58 pm

To understand your 'position clearly, so will a person not experiencing hair loss loose hair due to elevated scalp temperature? If not then why not? Why was thermoregulation unbalanced? The heat problem is a product of what? What do you think you did that removed the heat problem?

The reason we men tend to generate more heat than women, is down to steroid hormones influence -- most notably DHT. From what I've so far gathered, DHT has some effect on raising cellular ATP / metabolism. This may be because it causes a huge increase in nitric oxide, which promotes vasodilation. So, for this reason, increased oxygen to muscles will cause their ATP levels to increase which then emits more metabolic heat. This heat is then carried to the temples (and to a slightly lesser extent in the crown) so it can be released from sweat pores

The scalp is prone to overheating because it is here where a third of metabolic body heat is released, hence the higher number of sweat glands in the temples and the crown (These glands can somewhat be considered the body's heat release valve). So it is imperative that these sweat pores are kept clean of any obstructions (sebum), otherwise heat will become trapped and temperatures will increase beyond their core operating temperature of 98F. Then problems will start occurring, and this is signified by inflammation

As you stated, everyone eventually suffers from a degree of recession or thinning to varying extents, and this is down to growth factors and the cell's ability or inability to 'regenerate' after it has been damaged from inflammation.

Thermoregulation / homeostasis in my scalp was unbalanced because sebum was plugging the sweat pores. When this happens, the scalp starts to overheat and has problems cooling down to it's core temperature. Sweat is still released to an extent, but generally not enough to release all of this heat.

Since I've been washing my scalp everyday (with lukewarm water and a little soap) there is no longer any excess sebum lacing my temples, and my scalp no longer overheats. This must suggest that the sebum clogging my sweat pores has been cleared away, and this must be the reason why I am experiencing some new temple growth.

I really hope that this influences the growth of more hairs in time, but so far, I considered this to be a step forward.

BTW I noticed this severe overheating problem to my temples if I masturbated too much (I know for absolute certainty, that masturbating too much over the years contributed to my receded hairline). When sexually aroused, DHT levels increase because it helps promote nitric oxide; NO then allows extra bloodflow to keep the penis erect. A byproduct of this NO (as stated before) is increased metabolic heat, which is then transferred to the temples. Again, if sebum is blocking the sweat pores... you know the rest.

But please don't accept this as Gospel... you'll know if your scalp is prone to overheating because it will be very hot to the touch and you will regularly experience hot flushes to your scalp when your temp increases. Yet, your hairloss may not be caused by this. It could just be that you have poor growth factors in your scalp and they are being chronically inflamed by some other factor/s. Perhaps you may have a tight scalp which has problems excreting toxins from cells? Increased pathogens can and do cause inflammation.

Remember; women's follicles are more resilient to inflammation because estrogen assists in cell renewal, and they produce less heat, sebum, sweat, etc.

Edited to add: stress metabolites, such as adrenaline also raise body heat *immensely* because they cause vasodilation / ATP increase within skeletal muscles, heart and brain. This is no doubt another contributory factor in hairloss, as is evident in men who experience increased shedding when in a high state of anxiety (not to mention rapid weight loss).

987 Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:12 am

Xenon wrote:
To understand your 'position clearly, so will a person not experiencing hair loss loose hair due to elevated scalp temperature? If not then why not? Why was thermoregulation unbalanced? The heat problem is a product of what? What do you think you did that removed the heat problem?

The reason we men tend to generate more heat than women, is down to steroid hormones influence -- most notably DHT. From what I've so far gathered, DHT has some effect on raising cellular ATP / metabolism. This may be because it causes a huge increase in nitric oxide, which promotes vasodilation. So, for this reason, increased oxygen to muscles will cause their ATP levels to increase which then emits more metabolic heat. This heat is then carried to the temples (and to a slightly lesser extent in the crown) so it can be released from sweat pores

The scalp is prone to overheating because it is here where a third of metabolic body heat is released, hence the higher number of sweat glands in the temples and the crown (These glands can somewhat be considered the body's heat release valve). So it is imperative that these sweat pores are kept clean of any obstructions (sebum), otherwise heat will become trapped and temperatures will increase beyond their core operating temperature of 98F. Then problems will start occurring, and this is signified by inflammation

As you stated, everyone eventually suffers from a degree of recession or thinning to varying extents, and this is down to growth factors and the cell's ability or inability to 'regenerate' after it has been damaged from inflammation.

Thermoregulation / homeostasis in my scalp was unbalanced because sebum was plugging the sweat pores. When this happens, the scalp starts to overheat and has problems cooling down to it's core temperature. Sweat is still released to an extent, but generally not enough to release all of this heat.

Since I've been washing my scalp everyday (with lukewarm water and a little soap) there is no longer any excess sebum lacing my temples, and my scalp no longer overheats. This must suggest that the sebum clogging my sweat pores has been cleared away, and this must be the reason why I am experiencing some new temple growth.

I really hope that this influences the growth of more hairs in time, but so far, I considered this to be a step forward.

BTW I noticed this severe overheating problem to my temples if I masturbated too much (I know for absolute certainty, that masturbating too much over the years contributed to my receded hairline). When sexually aroused, DHT levels increase because it helps promote nitric oxide; NO then allows extra bloodflow to keep the penis erect. A byproduct of this NO (as stated before) is increased metabolic heat, which is then transferred to the temples. Again, if sebum is blocking the sweat pores... you know the rest.

But please don't accept this as Gospel... you'll know if your scalp is prone to overheating because it will be very hot to the touch and you will regularly experience hot flushes to your scalp when your temp increases. Yet, your hairloss may not be caused by this. It could just be that you have poor growth factors in your scalp and they are being chronically inflamed by some other factor/s. Perhaps you may have a tight scalp which has problems excreting toxins from cells? Increased pathogens can and do cause inflammation.

Remember; women's follicles are more resilient to inflammation because estrogen assists in cell renewal, and they produce less heat, sebum, sweat, etc.

Edited to add: stress metabolites, such as adrenaline also raise body heat *immensely* because they cause vasodilation / ATP increase within skeletal muscles, heart and brain. This is no doubt another contributory factor in hairloss, as is evident in men who experience increased shedding when in a high state of anxiety (not to mention rapid weight loss).

That doesnt address that hair loss only occurs on the top. Not all men loose hair on the top. Decreased growth factors loose strength as a point because men who do loose hair on top still grow the sides. That means hair growth components never left the body, just the top.I do believe you that increased heat is bad, but only bad for a already inflamed scalp. For a not inflamed scalp, temp changes are probably not significant in hair loss, the person would probably have a stroke or something first for such a change. So therefore your methods and observations are just assisting an already inflamed scalp. Some present inflammation is very quiet. This is why I say you are generally later down the chain. Sure stress and anxiety can lead to hair loss, but why does that hair grow back for some and not for others when stress related. I think you should question yourself more..

To assist in my point AND yours, when I did have a lot of scalp inflammation, the itching would get very intense as my body temp rose right before I started to sweat. It would itch like crazy, but then after a couple minutes after the sweat was released itching went away.Likely temperature spikes and sweat glands opening too slowly on top of my current inflammation. Whatever, just know that your thyroid has a component in sweating and thermoregulation. I'm not going to speak upon dht too much because I simply no longer believe it is that relevant in hair loss itself except through an entirely different mechanism indirectly related to hair, which is also a little later down the chain. In my perspective your theories very well could be a reason the present inflammation increased, but not the reason it started. To find the initiation thus cause, we must understand inflammation on a cellular level, regardless of what type of cells they are ( aside from abnormal cells), they have a basic requirement, which would take us to the foundation...

But first I digress, If you believe I am wrong with what said so far, and that your thoughts indeed are at the basis, then address my first paragraph so I can understand. Though from my point of view, you did poke at it some when briefly mentioning tight scalp, which I have analogies and connections for that direction for just about everything you had to say.. Then we'd continue along by finding out why it got tight and depleted ( just as skin does in a old person.) that's were it gets interesting. Anyways I believe we as people inherently choose to believe in the complexity of something not as understood, rather than look for its simplicity. Sure this is all simple and complex depending how you choose to view it. I find when we view the body strictly chemically and hormonally its complex, but then I realized things are really just about energy and the flow of it, and what is causing a deterioration of this sufficiency in one person rather than another... Leading up to once the flow is no longer adequate then things start to negatively change in the body, then all the riddles begin about hormones and progenitor cells and this and that. Thats likely too over simplified for most of your tastes, but that's all I have to say at the moment, take it whatever direction you intend on going..

Xenon Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:15 am

"That doesnt address that hair loss only occurs on the top. Not all men loose hair on the top. Decreased growth factors loose strength as a point because men who do loose hair on top still grow the sides. That means hair growth components never left the body,"

This is because the heat isn't expelled from the lower back and sides of the head -- mainly the temples and crown, so for this reason these regions are susceptible to overheating, whereas the lower back and sides are not. Secondly, in the lower back and sides of the head are two muscle groups: the temporalis and the occipitalis. If you google these muscles, you will find that hairloss never occurs where they are located. In fact, the hair that remains on the lower back and sides perfectly conforms to the shape of these muscles. These muscles act as protective cushions to capillaries when we press our heads against a pillow (they prevent decompression and allow toxins to be eliminated from cells easier), and because these muscles contain so much water, they likely assist the back and sides in cooling.

"I do believe you that increased heat is bad, but only bad for a already inflamed scalp. For a not inflamed scalp, temp changes are probably not significant in hair loss, the person would probably have a stroke or something first for such a change. So therefore your methods and observations are just assisting an already inflamed scalp. Some present inflammation is very quiet. This is why I say you are generally later down the chain. Sure stress and anxiety can lead to hair loss, but why does that hair grow back for some and not for others when stress related. I think you should question yourself more.."

Well, according to conventional science, prolonged temperatures exceeding the core temperature can cause cellular dysfunction (even by a few degrees). Now think about this; if temperatures increases by even a few degrees above core temperature the body / scalp will begin to sweat, so it can cool down. What does this tell you? It tells you that if there is temperature increase by even a few degrees, it is harmful to cells, otherwise the body would not need to cool down if this was not true. So this means that increased heat causes stress to cells, and any form of stress triggers inflammation..

"To assist in my point AND yours, when I did have a lot of scalp inflammation, the itching would get very intense as my body temp rose right before I started to sweat. It would itch like crazy, but then after a couple minutes after the sweat was released itching went away.Likely temperature spikes and sweat glands opening too slowly on top of my current inflammation. Whatever, just know that your thyroid has a component in sweating and thermoregulation.

I'm not going to speak upon dht too much because I simply no longer believe it is that relevant in hair loss itself except through an entirely different mechanism indirectly related to hair, which is also a little later down the chain. In my perspective your theories very well could be a reason the present inflammation increased, but not the reason it started. To find the initiation thus cause, we must understand inflammation on a cellular level, regardless of what type of cells they are ( aside from abnormal cells), they have a basic requirement, which would take us to the foundation..."

As I also mentioned, time and time again, there are likely other inflammatory factors (I have posted numerously about other inflammatory triggers I have observed along the way), but the main one for me is elevated scalp temperature

"But first I digress, If you believe I am wrong with what said so far, and that your thoughts indeed are at the basis, then address my first paragraph so I can understand. Though from my point of view, you did poke at it some when briefly mentioning tight scalp, which I have analogies and connections for that direction for just about everything you had to say.. Then we'd continue along by finding out why it got tight and depleted ( just as skin does in a old person.) that's were it gets interesting."

There are numerous causes for a tight scalp; one I have so far observed is a larger than average cranium. This can cause skin to stretch and become a little tighter, and it can also prevent inefficient expulsion of toxins from cells. Secondly, elevated temperatures can cause decreased cell division, which may then lead to microvascularization of capillaries. In other words, if there is insufficient mass within capillaries and venules, then they can become weaker and at higher risk of rupturing when stretched by the cranium. Incidentally, estrogen also promotes an increase in progenitor cells within these very capillaries, so they are less at risk of rupturing and will be quickly repaired if they do so.

Xenon Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:25 am

987 Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:36 am

Xenon wrote:

This is because the heat isn't expelled from the lower back and sides of the head -- mainly the temples and crown, so for his reason these regions are susceptible to overheating, whereas the lower back and sides are not. Secondly, in the lower back and sides of the head are two muscle groups: the temporalis and the occipitalis. If you google these muscles, you will find that hairloss never occurs where they are located. In fact, the hair that remains on the lower back and sides perfectly conforms to the shape of these muscles. These muscles act as protective cushions to capillaries when we press our heads against a pillow (they prevent decompression and allow toxins to be eliminated from cells easier), and because these muscles contain so much water, they likely assist the back and sides in cooling.

Yes hair loss only happens on the top as already pointed out, I am well aware of the anatomy of the human head. But your point there says nothing, considering it doesn't happen to everyone. In this paragraph your not speaking upon the missing variables of one persons susceptibility versus the next. There's more too it than just your mentioning of estrogen differences..

Well, according to conventional science, prolonged temperatures exceeding the core temperature can cause cellular dysfunction (even by a few degrees). Now think about this; if temperatures increases by even a few degrees above core temperature the body / scalp will begin to sweat, so it can cool down. What does this tell you? It tells you that if there is temperature increase by even a few degrees, it is harmful to cells, otherwise the body would not need to cool down if this was not true. So this means that increased heat causes stress to cells, and any form of stress triggers inflammation..

That all sounds true, but to simplify, once again hair loss only occurs in select individuals. What is the difference that this would a.) take place and b.) cause hair loss in one person and not another...

As I also mentioned, time and time again, there are likely other inflammatory factors (I have posted numerously about other inflammatory triggers I have observed along the way), but the main one for me is elevated scalp temperature

The core inflammatory factors that allow further inflammation you are not focusing on.
Half of your inflammatory triggers your suggesting only exist as problems after the fact of the foundational reason of why you have inflammation in said location in the first place.. Think of the term house of cards, your theories are all plausibly upper cards...

There are numerous causes for a tight scalp; one I have so far observed is a larger than average cranium. This can cause skin to stretch and become a little tighter, and it can also prevent inefficient expulsion of toxins from cells. Secondly, elevated temperatures can cause decreased cell division, which may then lead to microvascularization of capillaries. In other words, if there is insufficient mass within capillaries and venules, then they can become weaker and at higher risk of rupturing when stretched by the cranium. Incidentally, estrogen also promotes an increase in progenitor cells within these very capillaries, so they are less at risk of rupturing and will be quickly repaired if they do so.

On a strictly physical level, now we are getting somewhere. I do like your information regarding estrogen ^ But, this is still not generally the beginning of the process, although once at this point it does set up all the susceptibility to the possibility of all your other theories. I find it interesting you note numerous causes for tight scalp,(one being a protruded cranium) though you said that, I wonder how much thought you've actually put into it in your yrs of research in regards to connecting to everything else? I could elaborate, but id like to hear your version of the story, what are those causes? Lets hear them for progression of this conversation...[u]

Xenon Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:40 am

"Yes hair loss only happens on the top as already pointed out, I am well aware of the anatomy of the human head. But your point says nothing, considering it doesn't happen to everyone. In this paragraph your not speaking upon the missing variables... "

Those "missing variables" were explained extensively in the earlier posts. But I will explain one last time only... I said that part of this heat problem is caused by DHT and stress metabolites causing an increase in ATP and metabolic heat. This heat causes the body to exceed it's core temperature, so it moves to the scalp in order for it to be released from a concentration of sweat glands in the temples and the crown area.

Now the other problem is caused by sebum covering and clogging the sweat pores in which this heat needs to be released from. When this happens, heat becomes trapped in the underlying tissues and causes an inflammatory reaction.

Some men who have good cell division in their scalp follicles, low DHT, clean scalps and low inflammation will less likely go bald than someone who has poor cell division in their scalps, high DHT, sebum clogging and increased inflammation.

Women, on the other hand, are blessed because a) they don't produce as much metabolic heat / sweat as men - due to hormonal differences b) they contain a higher number of sweat glands, so can cool down much easier c) they produce less sebum and are less likely for it to clog their sweat pores d) Estrogen promotes an increase in progenitor cells to both capillaries and follicles c) androgens generally cause increased skull bone growth in certain men, which can cause the scalp to become tighter. Women don't seem to suffer from the expanded skull, as much as men do.

"That all sounds true, but to simplify, once again hair loss only occurs in select individuals. What is the difference that this would cause hair loss in one person and not another..."

Because of the reasons I stated above and in the earlier posts I made regarding the tight scalp.

"The core inflammatory factors that allow further inflammation you are not focusing on."

Well, it depends upon what core inflammatory factors affect each individual person. In my case it is mainly elevated heat, in your case and others, it may be something completely different. As I have explained time and time again to you, what causes my inflammation may not be an issue for you. Pinpointing specific inflammatory triggers in oneself isn't always an easy task, but over the years I've learned to recognize some of them, but for me personally, I feel the main issue is elevated heat.

And finally, since I have sorted this problem out within myself (over several months) a) My scalp temperature has become normal b) I am producing far less sebum than I ever have c) I have achieved a little temple regrowth.

987 Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:43 am

Xenon wrote:

Those "missing variables" were explained extensively in the earlier posts. But I will explain one last time only... I said that part of this heat problem is caused by DHT and stress metabolites causing an increase in ATP and metabolic heat. This heat causes the body to exceed it's core temperature, so it moves to the scalp in order for it to be released from a concentration of sweat glands in the temples and the crown area.

Ok so your saying the heat problem is cause by DHT, got you. Then what causes the DHT and stress metabolites to become a problem for some and not others when the DHT exists in both...

Now the other problem is caused by sebum covering and clogging the sweat pores in which this heat needs to be released from. When this happens, heat becomes trapped in the underlying tissues and causes an inflammatory reaction.

Why is the sebaceous glands in some people behaving poorly enough to lead to what you are suggesting here...

Some men who have good cell division in their scalp follicles, low DHT, clean scalps and low inflammation will less likely go bald than someone who has poor cell division in their scalps, high DHT, sebum clogging and increased inflammation.

Increased inflammation, true! So why do some men's scalps keep lowered DHT levels, even though their total systemic body dht levels might be just as high or higher. This also re asks, why are the sebaceous glands mal/over functioning, what is leading to poor cell division.. Simply because there is less estrogen? Then why is there less estrogen to androgen ratio in one mans scalp than another?
Which is really re asking, why is DHT elevated only in balding scalps...

Women, on the other hand, are blessed because a) they don't produce as much metabolic heat / sweat as men - due to hormonal differences b) they contain a higher number of sweat glands, so can cool down much easier c) they produce less sebum and are less likely for it to clog their sweat pores d) Estrogen promotes an increase in progenitor cells to both capillaries and follicles c) androgens generally cause increased skull bone growth in certain men, which can cause the scalp to become tighter. Women don't seem to suffer from the expanded skull, as much as men do.

Uh huh

Because of the reasons I stated above and in the earlier posts I made regarding the tight scalp.

Uhhh, so in your belief this comes before your sweating and pillow theories correct? Thus a bit more earlier in the chain wouldn't you say?Or are you suggesting tight scalp comes after the sweat problems. And if tight scalp does come before then what leads to tight scalp, please be thorough. I am talking about causation, sorry that I cant recall this statement from you...

Well, it depends upon what core inflammatory factors affect each individual person. In my case it is mainly elevated heat, in your case and others, it may be something completely different. As I have explained time and time again to you, what causes my inflammation may not be an issue for you. Pinpointing specific inflammatory triggers in oneself isn't always an easy task, but over the years I've learned to recognize some of them, but for me personally, I feel the main issue is elevated heat.

I might have already said this but what starts inflammation to the cell itself, I dont care what cell where talking about as long as its not a abnormal cell like a cancer cell. So name those factors of initiation, that ALL cells have in common... If you cant answer this its cool, then I will try to and then you or anyone can state an opinion of why I'am wrong. My goal here is not to be right, just to make sure I have compiled the right conclusions...

And finally, since I have sorted this problem out within myself (over several months) a) My scalp temperature has become normal b) I am producing far less sebum than I ever have c) I have achieved a little temple regrowth.

Less sebum? So your sebaceous glands are working better now!! ... Also sounds like Less cellular inflammation to me, good job.
Now not to get sidetrack back to my short paragraph before this one![u]

Xenon Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:44 pm

I have answered your questions multiple times over. You're just being deliberately ignorant or you're just trying to irritate me, as I am sick of repeating myself over and over.

I already told you, that the common thread in all MPB sufferers, is the cell's inability to effectively renew itself when it has been destroyed via the inflammatory process. I have also told you that elevated temperatures can adversely affect these growth factors.

I explained that the tight scalp has problems eliminating pathogens via vacuoles, which can then cause bacteria to multiply and create a heightened level of cell toxicity. It also has problems sweating these substances out because excess sebum can cover sweat pores.

I don't mind a good debate, but you're not comprehending anything I've said multiple times over, so you're making me repeat myself multiple times over. So for that reason, I am not going to answer any more of your 'questions'. It's not only boring me shitless and wasting my own time, but probably everyone else' for that matter.

987 Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:58 pm

Xenon wrote:I have answered your questions multiple times over. You're just being deliberately ignorant or you're just trying to irritate me, as I am sick of repeating myself over and over.

I already told you, that the common thread in all MPB sufferers, is the cell's inability to effectively renew itself when it has been destroyed via the inflammatory process. I have also told you that elevated temperatures can adversely affect these growth factors.

I explained that the tight scalp has problems eliminating pathogens via vacuoles, which can then cause bacteria to multiply and create a heightened level of cell toxicity. It also has problems sweating these substances out because excess sebum can cover sweat pores.

I don't mind a good debate, but you're not comprehending anything I've said multiple times over, so you're making me repeat myself multiple times over. So for that reason, I am not going to answer any more of your 'questions'. It's not only boring me shitless and wasting my own time, but probably everyone else' for that matter.

No, actually it is you whom not comprehending me. Your complaining about my attempt at critical thinking, which was never intended to tell you that you are wrong, but to help fill in some possible gaps where I believe your sequencing and understanding is incomplete, because it is of my opinion that you understand less than you think you do, other wise why be aggravated from simple questions which you think you have answered instead of learning why your answers weren't satisfactory for this conversation... Your aggravation appears to be a product of your desire to constantly take a position, therefore the entire time you were reading what I had to say, it was only with the intention to respond and never with the intention to listen or simply ask where I was trying to go with this regardless of whether I was right or wrong. Apparently the ego needs to feel like it knows the answer to every single thing, thus leading to you choosing to end this conversation in frustration, while justifying it with saying that you are speaking for "everyone" else. You have chosen that this is wasting your time, so I simply have no intention of finishing this conversation with you. If I decide to make my own thread communicating my logic I'm sure that you'll see it...

Xenon Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:12 am

I told you repeatedly, that I agreed with you, that there are multiple causes of inflammation. I explained to you, that the main cause of inflammation in *my own* case was elevated body heat. I also explained to you in scientific terms the detrimental effects that this internal heat can have upon cells and how it can affect cell division within the scalp. You repeatedly tried to tell me that the heat was not the main inflammatory trigger, and I told you beforehand that this may not be the problem for you so don't accept it as gospel, yet you went ahead and got into a debate with me over something that isn't causing your inflammation. So, on that merit, you were wasting your time and my time.

The fact that you have trouble comprehending things which I have explained over and over, denotes that it is you who understands less than you think you do. And your lack of comprehension is what was aggravating me because I was put in a position where I had to repeat myself to you time and again -- not because I feel the need to take a position or to feed my ego.

There was a time when I strongly disagreed with the boar brushing method and even gave Ferox a ton of shit for it because I knew that the method caused inflammation and accelerated shedding. But then I came across some information which said that progenitor cells can increase in injured tissue because of increased cytokines. I could have hidden this information and continued to lambaste Ferox, but I didn't. I accepted that I was wrong, apologized to him, and I also provided him with some information which may support his method.

I have said many times that I don't know everything, nor do you, nor does anyone else. If they did, then this problem would have been solved by now. I'm just simply putting information out there in an effort to try to help out others who are new to this subject and to whom the information resonates with. As I said, if it doesn't apply to you, then that's fine by me -- at least you can rule out that heat is not the problem for you. So no need to get into a debate.

And once again, I listened to what you had to say and provided appropriate feedback, i.e., I told you that I believe inflammation can happen in a multitude of ways -- not just through elevated temperatures.

I frequent these boards very often and absorb the great information from many board members. I'm not dismissive towards what anybody has to say (and nor you for that matter).

AS54 Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:39 am

There seems to be two camps diverging, one who thinks the solution is slowing down the metabolic rate (which would cool the scalp and could be achieved through cooling) and one who wants to increase the metabolic rate (increase in bloodflow). Naturally the body is going to try to compensate in the former strategy to try and raise the temperature back to baseline, which would increase bloodflow anyway.

Xenon, the only thing that I'm having trouble reconciling with your theories is that they tend to contradict themselves on the issue of heat/inflammation. The inflammation doesn't produce in increase in heat directly, unless we look at the minute amount of heat from the oxidation of fatty acids and what not. Probably not something we'd notice and would even have difficulty measuring. The real increase in heat comes from the increase in bloodflow that accompanies the inflammatory process, in large part due to the release of histamine which subsequently causes vasodilation. In a chronic form, which you see in something like rosacea, the vessels can actually become "leaky" and the immune response doesn't quite ever shut off, with white blood cells always being deposited along with GAG. This isn't unlike what we see happen in the scalp of hair loss sufferers.

So we have a camp who is arguing that increasing bloodflow is the key to rejuvenating hair. You make some statements that seem to agree, but then at the same time you are saying heat is the source of the problem, when the increase in blood flow:heat are essentially one and the same in this circumstance. I'm not sure if that's clear or not.

I've got to say that in the case of pattern hair loss, I'm not so sure that trying to dramatically increase bloodflow to the scalp is the best solution. I'll probably take a lot of heat for that, hopefully it doesn't increase my hair loss Smile

. I say that though because the mechanisms we've talked about for doing so generally result in an immune response in a region where the immune activity is already too acute. I would think the methods of using cold to achieve this would be much safer than brushing.

Xenon Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:26 am

Well, Anthony, here's what I'm trying to get at in regards to hypoxia and hyperoxia... I believe that the tight scalp can cause this hypoxic condition in some men -- largely men who have an expanded skull.

I believe it's true that the follicle does need adequate oxygenated blood supply in order for it to grow hair, but I feel that one of the main problems with a microvascularized capillary / venule network is inefficient expulsion of pathogens / toxins via waste disposing organelle called vacuoles. Due to poor circulation, I believe that pathogens begin to multiply in the cell membrane, vacuoles struggle to contain and eliminate them from the cell wall, then they begin to cause the cell to become toxic. This is when inflammatory agents come in and destroy the contaminated cell.

Yet not all men who have hairloss also have this expanded skull / tight scalp issue... some men go completely bald even if their heads are very small. But then we could also say that the men who fall into the latter category have poor thyroids, nutrition, etc, etc.

But keeping on topic for the moment...

In regards to hyperoxia, I'm saying that it can become a problem because of increased ATP and metabolic heat, a great deal of which is lost through the sweat pores of the temples and the crown. So these areas need to be able to effectively release this heat, otherwise it will build up and begin to cause problems with cells (but no need to repeat why i think this is the case).

The papilla is located within an underlying region of the skin called the hypodermis. The hypodermis, as you're likely aware, is a region of adipose tissue. The follicles of the galea are subjected to a build up of heat as it stands, so the presence of adipose tissue surrounding the papilla in this area would also cause it to retain even more heat. IMO, the papilla and matrix cells then begin to inflame because their core temperature has been disturbed -- especially if this is an ongoing process.

Quick paranoia post (just started brushing): Could vigorous brushing cause permanent damage to follicles, or is it pretty much decided to be beneficial? - Page 2 Skin_diag

Quick paranoia post (just started brushing): Could vigorous brushing cause permanent damage to follicles, or is it pretty much decided to be beneficial? - Page 2 Skin_diag

The reason why the sebaceous glands continue to produce sebocytes, is because they are not located in this layer of thermoinsulating adipose tissue (they are located in the dermis), so therefore are not subject to the same elevated temperatures, as the papilla and matrix cells are. In other words, they continue to operate under their core temperature.

"The number of adipocytes varies among different areas of the body while their size varies according to the body's nutritional state.[4] and acts as padding and as an energy reserve, as well as providing some minor thermoregulation via insulation."

And yes, I'm aware that there is depleted adipose tissue in the scalps of many balding men, and on one level it may be beneficial. For instance it can provide a form of protective padding or cushioning to capillaries when we rest the back and sides of our heads on our pillows, BUT in areas subjected to overheating (such as the temples and the crown) this adipose tissue becomes problematic because it causes more heat to build up. This maybe one of the reasons why it is reduced, as to prevent overheating.

As you mentioned that heat or the calor process is the stage of inflammation that assists in vasodilation and increased permeability of inflammatory agents. I agree with this. But what I'm also saying is, elevated temperatures independent of this process can also cause cellular dysfunction because they become unstable when they operate outside of core temperature (even by a few degrees). If this was not true, then our bodies would retain this heat and all cells would function normally. But the fact that the body needs to release this heat, means that it is harmful to cells if it isn't released.

"Enzymes in our cells work at certain temperatures, and if it's too hot, the cells break down. "The enzymes and cell will actually degrade … when they reach a critical temperature,"

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-07-20/health/ct-met-heat-science-20110720_1_extreme-heat-heat-stress-heat-exhaustion

This why I believe that the scalp is susceptible to heat damage, and also why i believe it can lead to inflammation.

So I think that some men's scalps go bald to the extremes of hypoxia and others due to extremes of hyperoxia.

987 Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:29 am

Xenon wrote:I told you repeatedly, that I agreed with you, that there are multiple causes of inflammation. I explained to you, that the main cause of inflammation in *my own* case was elevated body heat. I also explained to you in scientific terms the detrimental effects that this internal heat can have upon cells and how it can affect cell division within the scalp. You repeatedly tried to tell me that the heat was not the main inflammatory trigger, and I told you beforehand that this may not be the problem for you so don't accept it as gospel, yet you went ahead and got into a debate with me over something that isn't causing your inflammation. So, on that merit, you were wasting your time and my time.

The heat inflammation you speak of is a self perpetrating symptom after the initial reasons the cells inflamed in the first place, to me this is symptom not cause. But in efforts to assist your point I then told you that I had increased scalp inflammation due to heat after the fact of the initial chronic inflammation that was already present due to other reasons. Much of our foundational inflammation is low grade and silent. Before I ever experienced scalp inflammation, tolerable physical heat did not matter as far as hair was concerned. The heat factor becomes important after you've already digressed into susceptibility of a chronically inflamed scalp due to processes leading up to that point. Which is why your point is specific to ppl who are already well into the inflammatory process imo..
Btw I didn't waste my time, time is just fine, this is your perspective.
In addition to that, I also did not really debate you, because the majority of this conversation I was asking questions.
It didn't feel like a debate until your composure changed and your negative responses started...

The fact that you have trouble comprehending things which I have explained over and over, denotes that it is you who understands less than you think you do. And your lack of comprehension is what was aggravating me because I was put in a position where I had to repeat myself to you time and again -- not because I feel the need to take a position or to feed my ego.

If it makes you feel better to believe that I am not comprehending you, ( which deep down you know that isnt true) then fine we'll just leave it like that.. Shrug. I suggested myself that your points are sound, but they tend to miss key components that I believe to be more valuable, like where I interjected about the thyroids relation to body heat/sweat regulation.. You briefly mentioned thyroid in your last post maybe because of realizing you simply left this point out. No problem.

Also no one put you in a position to do anything, I just asked you questions and you responded to them how you wanted to, but got upset because the questions didn't fit your parameters of response, and then you shut down.. You repeated yourself because apparently that's all you felt you should do in that moment, instead of maybe changing to asking mode yourself. I over estimated my questions ability to enhance the conversation, there were other routes I suppose..Fwiw, I question my conclusions like this all the time now....So don't try to turn my words around and say that I understand less than I think I do when you were doing all of the "telling"... I assure you, you have or will try to shove your opinion down this forums throat more than I ever have or will. Which is fine, I never thought you were not worth listening to, which is why I even engaged in this conversation, mostly trying to figure out how you came up with your chain of events and causative factors..

There was a time when I strongly disagreed with the boar brushing method and even gave Ferox a ton of shit for it because I knew that the method caused inflammation and accelerated shedding. But then I came across some information which said that progenitor cells can increase in injured tissue because of increased cytokines. I could have hidden this information and continued to lambaste Ferox, but I didn't. I accepted that I was wrong, apologized to him, and I also provided him with some information which may support his method.

Cool.. All of these methods on this forum tend to be right in some way, some just much more narrow than others...

I have said many times that I don't know everything, nor do you, nor does anyone else. If they did, then this problem would have been solved by now. I'm just simply putting information out there in an effort to try to help out others who are new to this subject and to whom the information resonates with. As I said, if it doesn't apply to you, then that's fine by me -- at least you can rule out that heat is not the problem for you. So no need to get into a debate.

This elicits a similar response to earlier.

And once again, I listened to what you had to say and provided appropriate feedback, i.e., I told you that I believe inflammation can happen in a multitude of ways -- not just through elevated temperatures.

I frequent these boards very often and absorb the great information from many board members. I'm not dismissive towards what anybody has to say (and nor you for that matter).

You mean giving positive feedback such as "inflammation can happen in a multitude of ways" and then leaving that statement like that and walking away without any specifics to that statement. Or maybe your assuming I already knew all the specifics, and maybe your assuming this anwsered my question? Anyways, doesnt matter. So your last additional post now regarding skull expansion I guess is a answer to one of my questions asking what causes tight scalp, right? I'd agree, head growth is obvious, but I believe more importantly it comes down to the ratio of bone expansion verse adipose depletion, Scalp thickness means hair thickness in simplicity which you probably agree with. Thats pointless as well without discussing its cause also meaning what caused skull bone to grow. Dht/5AR maybe. What activates excessive 5AR... You see, I'm just trying to travel to the beginning in every theory and method. Anthony I never believed quantity of blood flow was more important than the quality of the blood, more about consistently reaching requirements on a cellular level which is my personal focus... Xenon Ill leave you alone with the questions, that will be all I have to say here, carry on.

Xenon Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:52 am

Well, 987, I know who you are, you gutless pussy... (and I'm not referring to Moby) you have to hide behind an alias to try to bring me down, not because you were interested in an honest debate. But I wont out you to the board members. You're just a kid who thinks he knows everything, but remember this, little boy; I was studying this subject while you were only 9 years old, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about (I have many years on you) and more importantly, my methods are yielding results. Where are yours? Fucking nowhere.

Did it take you all day to work on that reply? I could circle the drain with you to get one up on you, but I wont bother because you're a gutless pussy who hasn't got the balls to face me. What's wrong "987" not getting enough attention since you haven't been around lately? ...frustrated because you can't grow your hair back?

Anyway, prick. I'm off these boards now (precisely as you wanted)... while I'm regrowing hair, you stay bald.

987 Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:58 am

Xenon wrote:Well, 987, I know who you are, you gutless pussy... (and I'm not referring to Moby) you have to hide behind an alias to try to bring me down, not because you were interested in an honest debate. But I wont out you to the board members. You're just a kid who thinks he knows everything, but remember this, little boy; I was studying this subject while you were only 9 years old, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about (I have many years on you) and more importantly, my methods are yielding results. Where are yours? Fucking nowhere.

Did it take you all day to work on that reply? I could circle the drain with you to get one up on you, but I wont bother because you're a gutless pussy who hasn't got the balls to face me. What's wrong "987" not getting enough attention since you haven't been around lately? ...frustrated because you can't grow your hair back?

Anyway, prick. I'm off these boards now (precisely as you wanted)... while I'm regrowing hair, you stay bald.

Classy response. Insults always make one look smarter. In which you are smart, so why take it there.
Hide behind a alias? You mean a screen name?So you believe my intention this whole time was to argue with you,
well I guess I should have done a better job at that since I'm being accused for that anyways.
And if you were studying this since I was 9 years old then I guess I'm learning pretty fast then.
I have a full head of hair by the way, I never waited till I was bald to try to help my hair. I hope you regrow all your hair back!
*Btw, I dont feel good about how this conversation has affected your ego. I apologize for your botherance.

AS54 Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:55 pm

Man, guess I'm the only slick bald one. Shit. bounce

CausticSymmetry Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:43 pm

While reading through this thread I saw few things worth noting.

It hasn't been mentioned here all that much, however serum DHT is typically found to be low in balding scalps and higher in non-balding. I realize this might not seem to make any sense, however bear in mind that it is levels of 5-alpha reductase that are correlated directly with balding. DHT is the other way around.

Also bear in mind that DHT behaves different in non-balding scalps than balding. It takes a lot of DHT in order to create a pro-inflammatory response in non-balding scalps.

Ultimately, there are simple ways to help reduce 5-alpha reductase levels without poisoning this necessary enzyme. How? Well, since the body does rely on this enzyme for many things beyond DHT (a necessary hormone metabolite), reducing the prostaglandin synthesis by way of biologically active minerals (ones that contain a ligand), as opposed to a lot of the less effective variety found in a variety of lame stream places. And of course EFA's (Essential fatty acids).

Another thing I wanted to point out is about the heat factor... With respect to oxidation rate, it can run too fast or too slow. It's more about homeostasis (balance). Fortunately, the right nutrients or pulling away of inhibitors of these can help normalize the regulation.

Xenon Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:22 pm

^^That's a classy response from a person who does know his stuff.

And although I'm no longer going to post here, I thought I'd post some final information regarding sweating, histamine and inflammation...

"Cholinergic urticaria is a subtype of urticaria and it features with a sudden skin reaction. The condition occurs due to hypersensitivity to body heat. It typically develops after exercise, exposure to the sun, hot showers and saunas or it may develop after consuming spicy food. So all the previously mentioned stimulate the body to sweat and this consequently results in characteristic skin rash. To sum up, all the patients suffering from cholinergic uriticaria develop symptoms of the disease after they are exposed to any kind of stimuli which induce increased production of sweat. [the overheated scalp comes to mind here].

Pathophysiology and Causes of Cholinergic Urticaria

The hypothalamus is the part of the brain in charge of regulation of body temperature. Once it detects increase in the body temperature it signals the sweat glands to produce sweat. This is achieved thanks to a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine. This neurotransmitter assists in degranulation of specific cells in the skin called the mast cells. The mast cells disintegrate and release histamine. Since plenty of mast cells release excessive amount of histamine rapidly this consequently activates inflammatory response of the nearby tissues. The very inflammation is in a form of skin flushing and the skin becomes sticky and prickly. Normally a release of sweat from the sweat glands ceases hypersensitive reaction. But in people suffering from cholinergic urticaria it is hard to release the sweat and this leads to specific symptoms and signs of the disease. [sebum covering / clogging sweat pores].

Symptoms of Cholinergic Urticaria

People suffering from cholinergic urticaria start to experience unpleasant sensations the moment temperature of the surrounding starts to increase. The skin becomes extremely itchy and this sensation may affect each and every part of the body. Still, itching sensation most commonly affects the face, scalp and the upper torso. The person may also complain about prickling and tingling sensations. One more characteristic of cholinergic urticaria is flushing or reddening of the skin. Reddening of the skin occurs due to dilatation of the skin blood vessels. In some cases the skin is covered with small, pin point hives. Furthermore, skin changes may be in a form of small weals and raised welts but they only occur if the skin is vigorously scratched. And finally, there is generalized anhidrosis. A lack of sweat production is either partial or total.

Treatment for Cholinergic Urticaria

This type of urticaria is rather challenging to treat. It is essential for a patient to identify potential triggers and to avoid them. Since many people may feel the attack of urticaria coming on they may try rapid cooling and apply cold water or ice pack onto the skin. The doctors most commonly prescribe antihistamines. These medications are effective and may prevent outbreaks of cholinergic urticaria. Corticosteroids are prescribed only in a severe form of the disease."

http://ic.steadyhealth.com/about_cholinergic_urticaria.html

Xenon Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:25 am

"Classy response. Insults always make one look smarter. In which you are smart, so why take it there."

Yes, and cloak and dagger attacks are also classy too, not to mention very courageous.

"Hide behind a alias? You mean a screen name?So you believe my intention this whole time was to argue with you,
well I guess I should have done a better job at that since I'm being accused for that anyways."

Well, evidently, yes, it was your intention to argue with me and goad me into a sabre rattling stand off. But you had to hide behind another screen name, so that if I made you look like an idiot, then it would have been less embarrassing for you and you'd lose less face in the process.

"And if you were studying this since I was 9 years old then I guess I'm learning pretty fast then.
I have a full head of hair by the way, I never waited till I was bald to try to help my hair. I hope you regrow all your hair back!"

^^Well, what would you know? You never actually lost your hair, you just brought your inflammation under control. So what gives you any right to attempt to interrogate me or to give any form of advice on hairloss?

"*Btw, I dont feel good about how this conversation has affected your ego. I apologize for your botherance."

^^Me neither... people with narcissistic personality disorder always have problems when someone excels in something more than they, hence your entire motivation for attempting to bring me down with your insidious interrogation tactics.

You were shitting yourself to confront me under your more well known screen name in case I made you look like a fool by taking "your" ideas to pieces. That's why you had to interrogate me in disguise to see how much I knew, so you could feel safe to present your ideas without me blowing them out of the water. I'd never have done so, but that was your own insecurity which fueled your pathetic pre-emptive attack.

You might say that you think I have some sound points, so it didn't appear that you had an agenda to try to bring me down, but I see right through your bullshit, son. You gave yourself away... "So name those factors of initiation, that ALL cells have in common... If you cant answer this its cool, then I will try to and then you or anyone can state an opinion of why I'am wrong" and "because it is of my opinion that you understand less than you think you do".

You shot yourself in the foot like the amateur you are... You believe that you know more than me because you're a narcissistic asshole who is jealous because I brought some original thought to the table that doesn't conform with "yours" and because you didn't discover it first.

It didn't matter what answers I gave you, you were intent on interrogating me until you wore me down. No doubt you would have kept playing the "Why?" game until I was pressured into talking about molecular physics, then fucking super string theory.

You also said that I shove my opinions down this forum's throat more than you will ever do, which suggests that my posts and threads piss you off, yet at the same time you regularly read my posts, which further suggests that you are interested in what I have to bring to the table, but become envious at my capacity to think outside of the box, whereas everything you know has been gleaned from somebody else.

And btw, asshole; you were trying to incessantly shove your opinion down my throat. Projection, passive aggression and manipulation are classic traits of a narcissist.

And you think because i don't regularly mention the thyroid as a factor in hairloss, that I have no knowledge of this? I studied the thyroid, endocrine system, pathogens, you name it, back in 2000, son... I just don't regularly bring these things up in discussion because I have moved on to more significant and relevant things *where my own hairloss is concerned.*

And you mentioned low key inflammation? ...the heat issue also starts off as low key inflammation, until histamine receptors begin to upregulate in heat stressed scalps. I have been aware of this for a long time, and despite the last piece of information I posted in regards to Cholinergic Urticaria, I already surmised that this very process occurs in scalps stressed from internal heat.

So when I tell you that I know what caused my low key inflammation, which progressed into major inflammation... don't tell me I am not aware of what goes on in my own body... I have spent a very long time closely observing myself and my lifestyle in order to come to such conclusions.

END.

CausticSymmetry Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:24 am

If this thread continues, I wanted to add something.

During a deep sleep or through sleep involving detoxification or a sleep following a very heavy meal....the head will sweat much more than normal. This sweating is likely related this process and can also happen with the trunk of body as well.

With this in mind, there are some pillows which do a good job at absorbing the heat as well as the moisture.
Anyone recommend some good pillows for this purpose?

SlowMoe Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:37 am

CausticSymmetry wrote:While reading through this thread I saw few things worth noting.

It hasn't been mentioned here all that much, however serum DHT is typically found to be low in balding scalps and higher in non-balding. I realize this might not seem to make any sense, however bear in mind that it is levels of 5-alpha reductase that are correlated directly with balding. DHT is the other way around.

Also bear in mind that DHT behaves different in non-balding scalps than balding. It takes a lot of DHT in order to create a pro-inflammatory response in non-balding scalps.

Ultimately, there are simple ways to help reduce 5-alpha reductase levels without poisoning this necessary enzyme. How? Well, since the body does rely on this enzyme for many things beyond DHT (a necessary hormone metabolite), reducing the prostaglandin synthesis by way of biologically active minerals (ones that contain a ligand), as opposed to a lot of the less effective variety found in a variety of lame stream places. And of course EFA's (Essential fatty acids).

Another thing I wanted to point out is about the heat factor... With respect to oxidation rate, it can run too fast or too slow. It's more about homeostasis (balance). Fortunately, the right nutrients or pulling away of inhibitors of these can help normalize the regulation.

SlowMoe wrote:http://www.patentlens.net/patentlens/patents.html?patnums=US_5480889&language=&patnum=US_5480889&language=en&query=&stemming=&pid=p0#tab_1

See bolded bits

Androgens. Androgens are also involved in the development of MPB. The androgenetic theory to date as expressed by Orentreich, implies that the hair follicles in the crown and frontal regions are genetically different than those located in the temporal and occipital regions. In turn, with androgen stimulation, these genetically predisposed hair follicles become senescent.

   [00063] In males, the majority of testosterone is synthesized in the testis. The rate limiting step in the production of testerone is the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone by the δ.sup.5 pathway. This rate-limiting step requires NADPH and O.sub.2, both of which should be abundant in the testis. Testosterone is then peripherally converted to two active metabolites, dihydrotestosterone and estradiol. Studies have documented that dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is the tissue active androgen and the cellular mediator of androgen action. Bruchovsky, N. et al., J. Biol. Chem. 1968:243:2012, Fang. S. et al., J. Biol Chem. 1969:244:6584 and Wilson J. D. et al., Williams Textbook of Endocrinology. 8th ed. 1992:805-809. The DHT-receptor complex is responsible for external virilization and development of most male secondary sex characteristics. The conversion of testosterone to DHT requires the enzyme reductase activity (as well as NADPH). Takayasu, S. et al., JCE&M 1972:34(6):1098-1101. Estradiol production from testosterone also occurs in the periphery and recent immunohistochemical studies have revealed that the aromatase enzyme is present in hair follicles, with accentuated staining during anagen phase. Sawaya, M. E et al, J. Cutaneous. Pathol. 1992:19(4):309-314. The aromatization of testosterone requires hydroxylation and oxidation.

   [00064] Testosterone synthesis in MPB subjects should not be affected by scalp hypoxia, since the majority of testosterone in males is produced in the testis. In the hypoxic environment of the bald scalp, DHT synthesis should not be significantly impaired. Schweikert and Wilson have documented that 5-α-reduction of testosterone to DHT was increased in hair roots from the frontal scalps of balding individuals as compared to other hair bearing scalp sites in the same individuals or to frontal hair roots from women and non-balding men. Schweikert, H. U. et al., JCE&M 1974:38(5):811-89. Estradiol synthesis, however, should be stoichiometrically decreased in a hypoxic environment. Three moles of oxygen are required to convert one mole of testosterone to one mole of estradiol. In a hypoxic region, the ratio of DHT to estradiol (DHT/estradiol) should be increased. Sawaya has shown that men with MPB have nearly a two fold increase in 5-α-reductase activity of hair follicles in balding frontal scalp, than in hair bearing occipital scalp. However, hair follicles in the frontal region had nearly three times less aromatase activity than hair follicles in the occipital region in men with MPB. Sawaya, M. E. Ann. N.Y. Acad. Sci. 1991:642:376-383. Finding that the DHT/estradiol ratio is elevated in bald scalp as compared to hair bearing scalp in MPB subjects, is consistent with what would be expected in a hypoxic tissue environment.

   [00065] If one were to develop a gradual local tissue hypoxia of the frontal scalp, the DHT/estradiol ratio might increase locally to a critical level at which point receptor hormone interactions might result in down regulation or inhibition of hair follicle cell function. In turn, this might result in the ultimate conversion of terminal hair to villus hair, and the development of MPB. This inhibition may take the form of altering the number of hair follicle cells in anagen phase as compared to telogen phase.

   [00066] Orfanos and Vogels, in a controlled, randomized, double blind study, found that application of .025% estradiol for 6 months in subjects with MPB results in a decrease in the number of telogen hairs in 63% of those treated. A similar reduction was found in only 37% of the controls. No regrowth of new hair was found in either group. Orfanos. C. E., et al., Dermatologica 1980:161(2):124-132. The addition of estradiol to bald scalp would serve to locally decrease the DHT/estradiol ratio, This appears to decrease the number of hair follicles in resting phase. [size=150]However, the delivery of adequate O.sub.2 would be required to achieve keratin synthesis and hair growth[/size]. Thus, it is not surprising that hair regrowth did not occur with the addition of estradiol alone to bald scalps, without concomitant measures to correct the local tissue hypoxia.

   [00067] Hair Follicle Genetics. In contrast to the "Donor Dominance" theory, hair follicles in the frontal and crown regions of the scalp may not be genetically different from those in the temporal and occipital regions. Rather, a local tissue hypoxia may alter the local hormonal milieu, specifically the DHT/estradiol ratio, and thus account for the androgen stimulated difference in hair production in these regions in MPB subjects.

   [00068] The clinical observation of progressive lower extremity hair loss in patients with peripheral vascular disease of the lower extremities favors a tissue hypoxia theory. A donor dominance theory for hair loss in this clinical scenario, would imply that the hair follicles in the tibial region are genetically predisposed to lose hair while those in the thigh region are not in patients with distal lower extremity vascular disease. In Orentreich's original experiment (1959), bald scalp transplanted to hair-bearing scalp did not grow. This may have occurred because the hair follicles in the bald scalp were irreversibly atrophic from chronic hypoxia. The fact that autografts from hair bearing scalp grew hair when transplanted to bald scalp appears to be contradictory. However, when transplanting hair bearing autografts, an incision is made in the scalp at the recipient site. This adds the confounding variable of neovascularization in that region. This neovascularization may provide sufficient O.sub.2 to allow the local hormonal milieu to be permissive for hair growth.

Columbo Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:16 am

CausticSymmetry wrote:If this thread continues, I wanted to add something.

During a deep sleep or through sleep involving detoxification or a sleep following a very heavy meal....the head will sweat much more than normal. This sweating is likely related this process and can also happen with the trunk of body as well.

With this in mind, there are some pillows which do a good job at absorbing the heat as well as the moisture.
Anyone recommend some good pillows for this purpose?

Was reading something the other day, studies on wool duvets allows moisture to be absorbed and evaporate out and also allows for more natural thermo regulation than cotton or polyester. I guess wool pillows would have a similar effect.

http://www.thewoolroom.com/sleep-with-a-wool-duvet-and-banish-those-midnight-arguments.irs

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/greenproperty/9831714/Eco-living-could-wool-bedding-help-you-sleep-better.html

987 Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:20 pm

SlowMoe wrote:
CausticSymmetry wrote:

Ultimately, there are simple ways to help reduce 5-alpha reductase levels without poisoning this necessary enzyme. How? Well, since the body does rely on this enzyme for many things beyond DHT (a necessary hormone metabolite), reducing the prostaglandin synthesis by way of biologically active minerals (ones that contain a ligand), as opposed to a lot of the less effective variety found in a variety of lame stream places. And of course EFA's (Essential fatty acids).

***(Especially the Parent essential oils due its permeability to oxygen's transportation through the cell membrane. Combined with avoidance of cooked/inflammatory oils which do the opposite. Also proper breathing and exercise, avoiding toxins&pollution and sticking to a natural alkaline diet high in antioxidants, and potentially substances such as chlorophyll..) ***

SlowMoe-

http://www.patentlens.net/patentlens/patents.html?patnums=US_5480889&language=&patnum=US_5480889&language=en&query=&stemming=&pid=p0#tab_1

In addition to SlowMoe's post, & potential connection with inflammatory process http://hbotxofpalmbeach.com/study_pdfs/Oxygen-Inflamation.pdf But in keeping it simple without typical further over complication with info from that link, for me it just comes down to being mindful of healthy oxygen levels (cellular>blood) and the adequate flow of proper material in and out of the cell..
Relating this to every theory and method discussed here, easier to evaluate whats relevant, naturally some methods work much better than others. In stopping/undoing balding process depending depth within it, approach from all angles, & consistency is key ... But understand that everything else in this chain are symptoms followings the initial toxicity and deficiency on a cellular level, that which leads from the foundation of health, towards the general cause of all of our malfunction -the result and consequences of living an unnatural existence. That is all..

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