Ginseng, Tongkat Ali (Eurycoma longifolia)

Hi,
Has anybody used these for a significant period of time and noticed a positive effect?
Thankx

CS - I would very much appreciate if you could state your input on this.

Glacier - I've only used Eurycoma longifolia (Tongkat Ali) for short periods. Regarding Ginseng, there are different effects depending on the type of Ginseng. Panax seems to be the best, but I would say the effects are mild (from a libido perspective).

Thanks CS.

My belief is that as we age we lose hormones or the hormones decrease. We lose energy and mask with energy drinks, coffee and what not. Instead of treating the problem we treat the symptoms. My query was mainly concerned with this and I am looking for anything that will increase the hormone production without effecting the body's natural system (without using steroids of any sort). I think hair loss is one effect of this 'decreasing hormone' production - but it is just a theory. Any of the top 6 in your regimen do this? (any way to get the body to release more growth hormone without actually taking it orally)?

Glacier - I agree with you 100%. Aging is essentially declining hormone production.

Ecklonia Cava helps maximize pituitary growth hormone release. It's possible that this effect may need to be cycled, although I hate the idea of going off it for even a day.

Glutamine taken at 2 grams or more per night can increase pituitary GH release by up to 400%.

Arginine Pyroglutamate (1,000 mg) with 500 mg of Lysine can increase GH release by over a 1,000%

Maximizing the adrenal glands will allow optimal DHEA production, and if there is any doubt about the function of these, a DHEA-sulfate test can be ordered. Taking glandulars for a while may help allowing your body to boost up its DHEA production (if it is lower than normal to start with).

There are certain dietary factors that can reduce DHEA, such as HFCS (high fructose corn syrup). Vanadium as (Bis-Glycinato Oxovanadium) BMOV at 8 milligrams elemental can protect against HFCS induced DHEA decline.

Certain metals such as Lead (Pb) greatly reduce hormone production.

Environmental estrogens, particularly Bisphenol-a can have a serious impact on healthy hormone levels. Also beware of anything that lowers cholesterol too sharply.

In some respects Acetyl L-Carnitine can help replace some of what testosterone does when taking enough of it (3 grams).

There's a lot more I could add but these are basic.

Glacier, my view on aging is very similiar to yours. Us men as we age, we need to address three
issues: problem of increasing aromatase (bad estrogens), introducing healthy estrogens, boost T

Herbs and foods that work: Damiana, Curcuma, Passion flower incarnata, Maca, Kudzu (mirifica, lobata), Lignans (hmr/flax), Green tea, Epilobium parviflorum or angustfolium (can block dht too much),

Some great info anothr member posted earlier:

Increasing intake of male plants

More studies need to be done on plant androgens and how they affect our health, but based on anecdotal evidence, male plants do work. Testosterone boosting foods and herbs such as garlic, onion, celery, radish, almonds, pine nuts, bee pollen, mucuna, ashwaganda and ginseng respectively have shown great impact on sustaining and boosting testosterone, virility, strength and vitality. In future reports I will present male supportive foods, spices and herbs in more details, but for now let me just suggest that any plant food harvested before and right after pollination, is more likely to have higher concentrations of plant androgens than during other seasons. Evidently phytoandrogens reach max concentrations in plants during pollination and then drop rapidly thereafter.
Also, there is evidence that young "green" grains are more "male oriented" than old grains (such as with green oats). The germ in grain is great source of male hormones supportive compounds vitamin E, phytosteroids and nutritional cofactors – naturally occurring in the fat component of the germ. Note that stabilized wheat germ or rice germ could be highly beneficial in this regard.

Increasing intake of anti-estrogenic foods

Certain foods and herbs have shown the capacity to help balance estrogen in the body by inhibiting its formation or by modulating itmetabolism. These include broccoli, cabbage, omega 3 oil, flax, hemp or fish oils, nuts, seeds, turmeric, garlic, onion, oranges, berries, and all greens.

Supplement with estrogen inhibitors

Certain compounds in plants have shown to inhibit estrogen by blocking the aromatase enzyme that produces estrogen (converting androgens to estrogens) and by shifting estrogen metabolism to favor the production of the beneficial metabolites 2-hydroxy estrogens over the harmful fattening and sickening metabolites 16-hydroxy estrogens. These include the flavonoids chrysin from passion flower, apigenine from chamomile, and indoles from cabbage. (More information on estrogen inhibitors at http://www.defensenutrition.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=63.)


Cleanse your liver, kidneys and digestive tract

The liver and kidneys are the sites for steroid metabolism. There is a positive correlation between liver and kidney's health and testosterone activity. Testosterone's impact on the body depends on the level of free testosterone and what becomes evidently clear is that levels of free testosterone DECLINES when the liver is strained or overwhelmed with toxins. Toxicity promotes a process in the liver that DEACTIVATES testosterone by binding it to certain proteins called sex hormone binding globulins (SHBG). Moreover, toxicity increases the level of estrogen and cortisol over testosterone – a process that further diminishes testosterone's impact on the body. At this point, it doesn't matter whether and how much testosterone was ingested or even rejected – due to high levels of SHBG, or an excess of estrogen and cortisol, much of the testosterone pool will be rendered inactive. To avoid this problem, which also accelerates with aging and stress, it is important to CLEANSE all the body's detoxifying organs on a daily basis. Fruits and greens on empty stomach have a detoxifying effect on the body, nonetheless it is also important to supplement with detoxifying herbs

overtime we all learn that there are no short cuts. You start with jumping on each supplement you find a reference to only to be disappointed in the end ~ the sucess rates tend to be sporadic and low.

I guess the order of affairs should be to put ourselves on the path of recovery before trying to optimize. More than often, we are sick internally and we keep throwing supplements hoping for miracles to occur.

1. Clean up the diet ~ one item at a time (sugar, cafeine, fat, red meat, chemicals, etc)

2. Exercise

3. Get your vital organs in shape (liver, kidney, gut) or atleast get on a program that strengthens these vital organs

4. Then introduce basic elements of good health e.g. probiotics, greens, fish oil ~ supplements that are universal in nature and are supposed to optimize what we eat / breathe

5. Then perhaps move onto specific supplements

Sadly, we all start at #5...

Thankx CS and others for their input, it is quite informative.

For men, weight training and bodybuilding (without steroids or hormones) can amplify the effect of these hormones greatly. Every grown man should be pumping iron rather than watching TV. Once we reach puberty we stop growing so forcing the body to grow by increasing muscle mass, a good diet, and good supplement regimen can really help. Exercise is often ignored or folks really have poor workout goals which lead nowhere. 'Dude get off the treadmill and hit the weights'.

This forum is very useful, there is a wealth of information here.

Actually I didn't mean puberty - around 20-21 for men I guess.