All Brushers... please need advise, strongly considering going back to minoxidil.

after long thought I'm contemplating going back to rogaine.... the brushing method/stoping rogaine has left me drastically more bald than i was. i would kill to have the hair i had 2-3 months ago, it wasn't anything great but 100x better than my current state. college starts tomorrow and I'm literally dreading going out, its that bad. i am going to need a lot of strength to hold off maybe one more month and see if i get any improvements...

the only thing i can say is that the back of head looks a noticeably thicker (to me), but thats it. the hair (very little at this point) that is terminal has not fallen out. the rest of my hairs all fell out and I'm plagued with little hard white bulbs over the balding scalp that have thin hairs attached to them. i have less shedding but also have very little amount of hairs on my scalp so it makes nothing is shedding.

rogaine + brushing literally made my scalp burn like i was pouring HCL acidic solution on it. i guess ill wait just one more month for any sign of improvement because brushing/stopping rogaine has really put me back a lot. i sincerely just hope in one more month ill have hair coming out of telogen phase and back into anagen if brushing caused my hairs to go into telogen phase.

slowmoe saw really good results and he was on minoxidil and he was brushing, which I'm sure boosted his results from the zx42 he was taking.

i would love if any veteran brushers have any input or went through a similar period of hell lol. i really just want to throw in the towel but.. we'll see.

Dudebro,

I'm probably not the person to consult on manual methods, but I'll give you my two cents. Earlier this year I began doing massage vigorously and consistently for close to two months. I experienced the worst shed I've ever experienced. Now, I'm positive I've heard people mention that the manual methods often induce a shed at first, but it was startling how bad mine was. But here is what I find interesting, it was a slightly worse shed than what I experienced on circulation enhancing products like arginine. I believe one of the signals involved in the whole androgen picture of hair loss is NO, and certain conditions predispose some people to producing too much. In my experience, doing anything to promote blood flow in the scalp beyond what my resting level is has caused a noticeable shed, and I am very skeptical to say I am shedding. When I say a shed, I mean a shed.

That's my two cents, but like you said, others here have reported success. For me, massage either undermined where I was at, or I didn't perform it long enough to see the benefits.

if you stopped Minoxidil when you started manual that is almost certainly the cause of your shed. i believe manual methods simply brute force rip out hair. hair is all cosmetic anyhow. ripping out more hair than youd shed normally will long term degrade the appearance of your hair. hopefully bimatoprost will be more effective growth stim than minox. phase ii trials currently. its easy enough to acquire online, if not expensive. everything ive read says at the concentration used in latisse is mildly superior to usual concentrations in minoxodil. dose dependence of course. not only does it grow hair it increases the pigmentation of the hair as well which could be useful for balding people. i know that those with balding hair often complain of a change in pigmentation. a few have suspected that the growth from bimatoprost might be more permanent where it intervenes more directly as a prostaglandin analogue on the balding process than an agent like minoxodil. as to sides all ive seen reported is possible fat loss, and headaches.

minox shed seem to be a widely reviled phenomenon. id wondered if other growth stimulants do the same thing. id reason if they are forcing or prolonging the anagen phase they probably would, but i dont know. i've never seen any discussion of it.

What Law said regarding Minoxidil is correct, if it was doing you any good, even if it wasn't regrowth but just preventing or slowing down further loss, then ceasing treatment will have an negative reaction, sadly this is just how minoxidil works.

its how all treatments work to an extent, though with an antiandrogen you are preventing the damage that would occur do to the binding of DHT, presumably less fibrosis, less scarring, etc, even tho the minuaturization would catch up with you. its just not abrupt like minoxidil. gradual loss isnt as shocking to the mind.

though the finding that finasteride and dutasteride increase the expression of androgen receptors probably means that damage youve prevented during the time you were on them will just be intensified upon cessation. tho youd think the AR gradually goes back to its normal state of expression. again itd be interesting to know if all andogen interfering treatments work similarly or if thats a unique action of 5ar inhibitors.

When i was on finasteride i firmly believe it turned up the AR sensitivity for me, it was crazy how bad i was shedding and the inflammation was always there and it wasn't like that when i started. I was in a constant state of shedding and my face was breaking out and unbelievably oily. I know others on HLT experienced it, i think it was called reflex hyperandrogenicity?

yeah, sounds about right.

I wonder if some form of topical Vit A would be a better option than topical antiandrogens (or maybe a good idea if trying to come off them) given the evidence of its ability to decrease AR expression.

dude, I agree with LoT that stopping minoxidil, combined with starting a manual methods regimen is likely your problem. Based on what I've read here, stopping minox can induce a pretty bad shed. I've not had anything to do with minoxidil for over 10 years, and I hated the way it felt on my head so couldn't use it for long enough to see results, but that's pretty much conventional wisdom.

We also know that beginning manual methods also can induce a shed. I experienced a shed when beginning manual methods, myself.

So you likely got a double whammy, unfortunately.

Another thing to consider is how you're brushing your hair. Part it in the middle and brush straight down the sides. In the back, brush from the vertex down. DO NOT brush from temple straight back. Brushing straight back from the temples can pull on hair and also break it. Also, if you have any length to your hair (like, past your ears), don't brush any further than your ears/scalp. Brushing too much on the length of your hair can break it, as well.

But back to the question in your post: my advice is whatever you do, don't stop the manual methods. Regardless of whether or not you begin minox again, don't stop the manuals. They've really helped my hair, and are still helping even though my diet has (regrettably) gone to shite. Shedding is still minimal and I still think I'm seeing some regrowth.

FWIW, I still and always believe diet is the absolute foundation for correcting hair loss...since my spine apparently turned into a wet noodle and I lost all discipline on the diet front, my hair is not in quite as good a shape (liveliness, etc.) as it was 3 months ago. I'm not really losing ground, but not gaining any, either. IMHO manuals and a good diet are necessary for most of us for significant regrowth.

One more vote for the minox shed here.

It ain't a pretty thing but you should recover. When I have mine (quitting minox and fin) I thought it was over. I shed a ton and definitely reached the worst state of hair I'd ever had. BUT I recovered and now am regrowing more than I did when I was on the drugs though density it still probably slightly lower. I think the density will increase too since my sheds have slowed finally after starting manuals and I've read on various forums about it taking people up to a couple years for their hair to normalize again after long minox use. IMO DON"T GO BACK ON. It would likely give you another shed from restarting anyway so you'd jsut set yourself back and possibly look worse.

I've also read people's threads who yo-yo the minox and the results can be pretty bad. Quit = shed = OH NO!/back on = a shed a few months later/return of sides for some=quit=shed=back on etc, etc....

Dudebro,

Like lots of others have said here, I think the biggest factor in your shed is quitting minox. I've been on minox off and on for 5 years. I have quit and re-started about 3 times. Each time I quit the sheds were very significant.

For the last two months if been brushing 2x day for about 3-4 minutes and I'm seeing some small regrowth at the temples but also a loss of density elsewhere. So I think you got hit with a double shed from minox and brushing.

thanks for the replies everybody, i appreciate it... yeah in my head i know what the issue is, but its just hard accepting it haha. i just wish these manual methods would kick in faster... I'm thinking if i see no evidence by october/nov I'm just going to permanently stay on the minoxidil until the "miracle" comes through. I'm going to try to just shave it all off, which would be better imo lol but my gf will throw a fit. i hate the patchy look with just hair in one particular spot with everything else very thin.

also whodathunkit, i brush my scalp in circles for about 5 min twice a day... my hair is probably 5cm long lol really short. i just didn't think that brushing in one direction would stimulate the scalp enough. i might need to rework my method

Duketronix wrote:One more vote for the minox shed here.

It ain't a pretty thing but you should recover. When I have mine (quitting minox and fin) I thought it was over. I shed a ton and definitely reached the worst state of hair I'd ever had. BUT I recovered and now am regrowing more than I did when I was on the drugs though density it still probably slightly lower. I think the density will increase too since my sheds have slowed finally after starting manuals and I've read on various forums about it taking people up to a couple years for their hair to normalize again after long minox use. IMO DON"T GO BACK ON. It would likely give you another shed from restarting anyway so you'd jsut set yourself back and possibly look worse.

I've also read people's threads who yo-yo the minox and the results can be pretty bad. Quit = shed = OH NO!/back on = a shed a few months later/return of sides for some=quit=shed=back on etc, etc....

DUK, i'm on the third month since quit minox and still haven't notice any shed. (i just use castor+emu oil + brushing)
Could you tell me when the shed start for you and for how long?
Also, when the situation stabilized, how long does it take for you to see any regrowth?
Did you follow any specific regimen that time?
Thanks

steve.. thats pretty odd you didn't see a shed at all. can u give us a timeline on how long u were on rogaine? when did u start brushing? lol you gotta be doing something else that blocked the shed. internals?

Hey dude, I'm no expert but that might be too long to brush in circles. If I was you I would probably stick with just brushing the way hair generally grows...straight down. When you style comb it any way your want, but when you're "power brushing", go straight down.

I find brushing for about five minutes then turning my head upside down for another 150 strokes (difficult to watch the clock when your head's upside down, so counting is better) is pretty stimulating. Even though I'm upside down at the end, I'm still brushing the way the hair grows, in that I'm not pulling it to the side or back, if that makes sense. It's just lifting the hair up rather than pulling it. I brush fast, and only on my scalp. At the end of the session I brush the entire length of my hair a few gentle strokes to distribute any beneficial oil from my scalp, but only at the end. Then I'll usually take the brush and bounce the bristles hard all over my scalp for a couple of minutes (as long as I can stand it, since it can hurt a bit) to get an extra tingle going. This has been working well for me. I do it in the morning, and find it a pretty good way to start the day.

Steve- My shed started about 3-4 months in and didn't really slow until about 6 months. I wasn't doing manual methods at the time. Not sure what stopped it really. I think my hair was just all locked in its cycle so it had to reboot. Time and allowing my body to re-regulate and adapt to it's natural state evened things out and it wasn't really THAT much worse than when I was on the drugs in the end, but definitely a "step back". Though I think it was really a step forward.
Wish I had taken more pics to help others out but that seems to be the usual story on hair loss forums, people don't want to take pictures when its bad and then when it gets good its too late.

Dudebro- I think it's probably a good idea to try brushing with the direction of growth especially since you're having issues. I do circles sometimes with the cheap shampoo brushes but I press them down and hold the scalp when doing it so there's no friction really. Otherwise I go with the 'grain' so to speak.

dudebro wrote:steve.. thats pretty odd you didn't see a shed at all. can u give us a timeline on how long u were on rogaine? when did u start brushing? lol you gotta be doing something else that blocked the shed. internals?

Almost 18 year on rogaine. But the last 10 months i was apply it once every second day, because i thought that hasn't nothing else to give me.
I brush my hair almost 6 months and after that apply oils (castor, emu, coconut) and from supplements just Whey protein until 2 - 3 weeks ago. (now add more )
Probably, time will tell....