CS please respond - very important topic: AR sensitivity

Genetic Variation in the Human Androgen Receptor Gene Is the Major Determinant of Common Early-Onset Androgenetic Alopecia
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Confirmation of the association between male pattern baldness and the androgen receptor gene.
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"We analyzed a silent polymorphism in the androgen receptor gene (AR) in a group of 41 bald males and 39 non-bald males, and found a significant association (p < 0.0026), thus confirming the previously reported association between MPB and the AR gene."


how can we change that?

Are you here to regrow your hair or to try to discourage everyone that is making progress?

SlowMoe wrote:Are you here to regrow your hair or to try to discourage everyone that is making progress?

what is your problem? I'm asking a question: how do you desensitize androgen receptors that are apparently more sensitive in people with MPB. oh and by the way I pretty much halted or slowed down my hair loss using methods from this forum so shut it

can one of the moderators check this moby dude out, he definitely has some kind of agenda on this site, and its dammaging the reputation of this site

Iodine and chelation are good places to start, androgen receptors are controlled in this case by a loop or interacting hormones and inflammitory signals, most likely this polymorphism is designed to enhance androgen uptake in times of inflammitory insult to ensure reproductive and other homeostasis factors. Similar to the APOE4 phenotype, which enhances inflammation and immunity with short term exposure to pathogens, but becomes deadly when chronicity establishes itself.

schpiloch123 wrote:can one of the moderators check this moby dude out, he definitely has some kind of agenda on this site, and its dammaging the reputation of this site

you're insane. Just because I disagreed with your circulation theory you're going to follow me now and insult me?

aIodine and chelation are good places to start, androgen receptors are controlled in this case by a loop or interacting hormones and inflammitory signals, most likely this polymorphism is designed to enhance androgen uptake in times of inflammitory insult to ensure reproductive and other homeostasis factors. Similar to the APOE4 phenotype, which enhances inflammation and immunity with short term exposure to pathogens, but becomes deadly when chronicity establishes itself.

there we go. Finally the discussion can start. I know about iodine and inflammation but is there anything specific we can do?

I second A > R.

The problem has been solved for some time. DHT is not a factor when all dietary and environmental issues have been dealt with. I'll add that the right form of antioxidants will help desensitize DHT as well.

However, there are definitely epigenetic factors going on, such as how well estrogen receptor beta is expressed, it's thought to be by way of a glucocorticoid dependent mechanism. If ERbeta is expressed properly, DHT is rendered harmless.

The silent polymorphism is probably the thyroid factor. Understand that most the standard lab tests will show a "normal" thyroid level, because the tests are antiquated and need to be changed. However, even if they were, modern medicine doesn't use pragmatic approaches, plus they are decades behind. They don't read the research, they just follow the heard and in most cases they have little choice if they want to keep their jobs.

Polymorphisms are increasing common because of the 100,000 plus chemicals in the environment.

how does this relate to body hair which bald people seem to have lots of it. Obviously DHT metabolism is higher throughout your body so why is that? Low SHBG? I'm already taking massive doses of iodoral with some armour tyroid what if that is not enough?

so is it really agreed that AR sensitivity is "epigenetic"? Body builders don't seem to agree with it

moby wrote:how does this relate to body hair which bald people seem to have lots of it. Obviously DHT metabolism is higher throughout your body so why is that? Low SHBG? I'm already taking massive doses of iodoral with some armour tyroid what if that is not enough?

so is it really agreed that AR sensitivity is "epigenetic"? Body builders don't seem to agree with it

Regarding body hair, it is usually one of two things. (1) Beard and body hair have the opposite effect to scalp hair, that is DHT stimulates the growth of body and beard hair. (2) There are those with low body and scalp hair, those typically produce low levels of growth hormone.

SHBG levels differ with age. Thyroid normalization will correct for low levels or high levels. In young people low SHBG will be a problem. Generally speaking, MPB suffers from low testosterone (except in cases of low SHBG). In part, this is because Estrogen receptor beta cannot be produced without enough testosterone.

Are you doing enough? Unfortunately, it's not possible to say yes or no. There are several dozen real or more factors that can make a difference. In other words, it's not cut and dry.

Of the most important, between what A > R and I mentioned as a "top 3" (heavy metal detoxification, iodine, appropriate antioxidants), there are dietary considerations (what is optimal for you/your metabolism), are you avoiding foods that can disrupt the whole scheme of things. When I perform consultations, I dig into several dozens of things usually because there are many overlooked areas that go beyond diet or supplementation.

Polymorphism is definitely one of these types of considerations, for example a lot of people in these toxic times have a MTHF reductase (enzyme deficiency, that is probably brought about by xenoestrogens). Others have some mineral imbalances that disrupt how the endocrine system works.

Some with thyroid needs will benefit differently on treatment.

moby wrote:

SlowMoe wrote:Are you here to regrow your hair or to try to discourage everyone that is making progress?

what is your problem? I'm asking a question: how do you desensitize androgen receptors that are apparently more sensitive in people with MPB. oh and by the way I pretty much halted or slowed down my hair loss using methods from this forum so shut it

get a prescription for ASC-J9 if they ever conduct clinical trials on it for balding and get approval for it

Caustic how long did it take you to see regrowth/hair density recovery, from when you first started your efforts in beating hair loss?
I know this question isn't a cut and paste type of thing as it will greatly vary from person to person, and to the extent of hair they have loss but I was just curious about your personal experience with regrowth.

J987 wrote:Caustic how long did it take you to see regrowth/hair density recovery, from when you first started your efforts in beating hair loss?
I know this question isn't a cut and paste type of thing as it will greatly vary from person to person, and to the extent of hair they have loss but I was just curious about your personal experience with regrowth.

It's hard to answer without taking forever, because I started my fight in the early 1990's when there was only scalp cleansers (Helsinki formula) and Minoxidil (which I never touched). I attempted to fight using a large variety of vegetable juices. This approach did not fix the underlying problem (thyroid function), however it probably helped slow the inflammatory process. The vegetable juicing was to an extent a form of fasting, so little solid food was eaten and that allowed a forestall in inflammation.

It further helped that I ate no grain products except for oatmeal.

I did not eat this way for long, because my stamina deteriorated and I needed more meat based products. Unfortunately, I started to add back in the grain products and sugars eventually and things grew worse after a period.

In the mid to later 90's focused on DHT, using saw palmetto and then eventually Beta Sitosterol. I do not recommend this, however it did help slow hair loss somewhat, but not very well and there were plenty of side-effects.

Could go on forever about 2000 to 2003, but more and more research came out after that period and it wasn't until 2005 that things started to turn around. Relatively speaking, 2005 was the "stone ages" in hair loss information technology.
Things slowly improved for the better as new information made itself available and I took advantage of anything (natural) and experimented with it.

2007 was a year when things continued to improve, and each year following continued to get better. So I have better hair today, than I did last year, the year before, and so forth.

another question about thyroid - ever since I start taking 2 tabs of armour with 50-100mg of iodoral, my scalp itch has gone completely or at least the frequency is reduced by a lot! Shedding/oilyness problems may have been lessened too but they're still there. The problem is that it may be too much since I don't think I was a hypo to begin with(maybe something minor but nothing iodine couldn't fix of which I was severely deficient).
Are there any complications of taking armour for a long time even though you don't have hypo? Do your normal thyroid functions eventually shutdown? Do I have to take thyroid pills forever or will it eventually fix itself?

moby wrote:another question about thyroid - ever since I start taking 2 tabs of armour with 50-100mg of iodoral, my scalp itch has gone completely or at least the frequency is reduced by a lot! Shedding/oilyness problems may have been lessened too but they're still there. The problem is that it may be too much since I don't think I was a hypo to begin with(maybe something minor but nothing iodine couldn't fix of which I was severely deficient).
Are there any complications of taking armour for a long time even though you don't have hypo? Do your normal thyroid functions eventually shutdown? Do I have to take thyroid pills forever or will it eventually fix itself?

How do you know you were/are not hypothyroid? Conventional lab tests are almost useless, as they do not measure thyroid activity within the cell. There is no accounting for the sensitivity of thyroid hormone (a thyroid receptor can have loads of fluoride, bromide or other competitors of iodine, which cannot be differentiated in a lab test).

The latter questions you asked are too complex to answer yes or no. It entirely depends, and there are ways to tell if you are getting too much of a good thing. However, it is easier to "over dose" with synthetics, since they do not contain T1 though T12, only T4 (or prescribed separately T3). Also, Armour is not what it once was. I now prefer Westhroid or Nature-Throid.

Regardless of what type of thyroid hormone preparation, iodine is important to use (along with selenium).

Everyone is different, and some can get a good boost from thyroid hormone, whereas some who have a long standing thyroid problem may require long term (life time) use.

CausticSymmetry wrote:
How do you know you were/are not hypothyroid? Conventional lab tests are almost useless, as they do not measure thyroid activity within the cell. There is no accounting for the sensitivity of thyroid hormone (a thyroid receptor can have loads of fluoride, bromide or other competitors of iodine, which cannot be differentiated in a lab test).

well I got it tested and I only remembered my TSH number which is 1.8. Yeah I know probably not a "real" hypo or at least very minor which could be fixed with iodoral but I'm taking thyroid hormones anyways just to see what would happen.

CausticSymmetry wrote:
The latter questions you asked are too complex to answer yes or no. It entirely depends, and there are ways to tell if you are getting too much of a good thing. However, it is easier to "over dose" with synthetics, since they do not contain T1 though T12, only T4 (or prescribed separately T3). Also, Armour is not what it once was. I now prefer Westhroid or Nature-Throid.

well basically I'm asking is it possible to actually do harm to your thyroid or your endocrine system by taking thyroid hormones long term even though you may not even need it? Wouldn't thyroid eventually weaken due to it being shutdown for such a long time?

Maybe receptor sensitivity changes depending on low/high oxygen in the tissue.

Let us not judge right way. Lets respect his opinion.

cpio wrote:
Maybe receptor sensitivity changes depending on low/high oxygen in the tissue.

This.

moby - There's no grave risk for being on natural thyroid hormone, however if you get to a point of feeling too revved up, that's a sign that you do not need it.

CausticSymmetry wrote:moby - There's no grave risk for being on natural thyroid hormone, however if you get to a point of feeling too revved up, that's a sign that you do not need it.

found proof:

"In 1951, Greer reported the pattern of recovery of thyroid function after stopping suppressive treatment with thyroid hormone in euthyroid [normal] subjects based on sequential measurements of their thyroidal uptake of radioiodine. He observed that after withdrawal of exogenous thyroid therapy, thyroid function, in terms of radioiodine uptake, returned to normal in most subjects within two weeks. He further observed that thyroid function returned as rapidly in those subjects whose glands had been depressed by several years of thyroid medication as it did in those whose gland had been depressed for only a few days" (8)

These results have been subsequently verified in several studies (8,9) and a large number of trials where T3 was used to treat obesity. So, contrary to what has been stated in the bodybuilding literature, there is no evidence that long-term thyroid supplementation will somehow damage your thyroid gland.

Great thread...

It is absolutely true that if you get diet, environmental toxin (chelation) exposure and critical endocrine minerals in balance... you are about 85% of the way there...

M

I am tempted to say - if you fix the oxygen deprivation to the scalp, then all the other things fall into place automatically. You can even eat sugar and not be sore three days after (like me).