Body Building

I wanted to get some opinions in here (away from the supplement companies and hype)...

I am seriously into Body Building and am also in my mid 30's. I have done Body Building off and on since I was about 15 with some pretty long rests along the way. A couple of years ago I got back into it with the encouragement of a friend. It has been a very good thing as it makes a huge different to my quality of life. I have never ever taken any steroid of any kind. About the worst thing I ever did was take a bottle of a pro-hormone called androstenedione from AST Sports Science. That was about 10 years ago now. I only took the one bottle and decided no way after that.

I am finding that my muscle size and strength is growing better than it did when I was 17 and 25. Maybe I am training smarter and my diet is better?

Anyway, I have a goal that I am trying to reach in the next 6 months with regards to size. I want to achieve that goal and then change my focus on maintaining and cardio fitness. Currently I am taking whey powder 3-5 times a day as well as the IH regimine, Creatine, Glutamine and Beta Alanine. Hardest muscle to gain size on seems to be biceps, but I am sure that is the same with everyone (ha, ha). Training wise I am confident of the program (AST Sport Science MAX OT), I just wanted to check in with you guys on the supplements and diet aspects and maybe hear your experiences.

Thanks,

I also forgot to ask about whey powders. SO much hype is in the industry and it is very difficult to find the truth. After much research I am still confused on the best type. I am not interested in brands so much. I am more interested in knowing whether Hydrolysed Isolate is the be all and end all. That stuff is very expensive, so I am opting for the plain Isolate wheys.

PS, who thinks Arnold can get back in shape at this time of life?

If you want to achieve a particular goal in a particular time frame, then it would be prudent to use as much help as possible;
in regards to protein, the best of the best afaik is a casein hydrolysate (i.e. peptopro).
But, a plain whey isolate will do, no question; if you want to "boost" the effect of any protein or diet, just add some bcaa.
For a wealth of information (studies) about supplements and related stuff, visit ergo-log.com

As far as size goes there are a few important things in my mind. I'm not sure if you went over every supplement you used and I don't want to make assumptions, because I'm no expert, just telling ya what works for me. Plain whey isolate is just fine, I find it better than the concentrate which has other added sugars. Arnold? That would be difficult but with the amount of money he has, I'm sure he could get access to the world's best hormone replacement therapy. Obviously he won't be olympian anymore, but he could be in way better health than he is atm.

- 1.25 to 1.5 g protein per pound of body weight (from whey, gelatin, grass-fed cuts
of meat)

- 60-90 minutes preworkout have a meal containing 50 g protein and 60-70 g carbohydrate (fat is at your discretion but don't overdo it

- 20 minutes prior to your workout have another whey shake and BCAA supplement
(there are some good pre-workout supplements out there: Jack3d)

- Sip on BCAA's (mixed with water) throughout your workout

- 30 minutes post workout have a meal containing 50 g protein and 100-120 g carbohydrate (usually done with a whey shake and some type of carb powder like dextrose, I've also hit the carb mark with simple sugar, fruit, and milk smoothie with whey), take any other supplements you'd like to at this point (but avoid the straight antioxidants like vitamin C for the moment, I'd recommend glutamine, arginine, creatine, and leucine)

- Within 2 hours of your post workout meal, always have another large whole food meal
(as you can see we are trying to get the majority of your calories in peri-workout when
eating this much will contribute to your muscular anabolism) and aim to get another
80-100 g carbohydrate and around 30 g protein.

- These meals listed above should put you at around or a little over the 2200-2500 calorie mark for the day depending on your fat intake. You'll have to adjust these meals and your other meals according to your own BMR. I only need about 2500-2600 calories per day so this works well for me. My breakfasts are usually a green shake that are essentially very low calorie with the exception of the added coconut oil.

- Just before bed consume casein protein powder (try mixing it in some cottage cheese); and also an arginine/ornithine/glycine/glutamine combo

- Remember: creatine is great for size but a good deal of it comes from increased water retention by the muscle, when you go to cut and lower your carb intake, that'll come off really fast.

Creatine monohydrate bloats. The best creatine I've used is creatine russian tarrogon. There's a new one called creatine nitrate that's meant to be the best though. Beta alanine is very good for reducing lactic acid. To sum up, the best things are creatine RT/nitrate, beta alanine and Toco-8/suprabio tocomin (hair safe test booster).

Although creatine supposedly increases DHT so...

I'd never heard that Hellwig. I want to learn more about that, if its the case creatine might be something I drop.
I certainly don't need MORE dht. The performance benefits don't outweight that imo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19741313/

Not sure about other kinds but I'm avoiding them all for now. I see no reason to take mono in any case, given that other versions work even better minus the bloating.

hellwig wrote:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19741313/

Not sure about other kinds but I'm avoiding them all for now. I see no reason to take mono in any case, given that other versions work even better minus the bloating.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/347217-hair-loss-and-creatine/

I know many of you are bodybuilders and i am sportsman as well, but see no point in bodybuilding. It's condidered healthy due it's mechanism of workout or you just go to boost your EGO based on your progress in the gym? Sorry if you find it provocative, but as a person who plays at least 4 sports cant relate to bodybuilding - i dont say i shouldn't. Onlything what attracts me in the gym are nice tight asses from female gender. You like what is happening to your motor skills doing muchle building repetitions?

Beebrox wrote:I know many of you are bodybuilders and i am sportsman as well, but see no point in bodybuilding. It's condidered healthy due it's mechanism of workout or you just go to boost your EGO based on your progress in the gym? Sorry if you find it provocative, but as a person who plays at least 4 sports cant relate to bodybuilding - i dont say i shouldn't. Onlything what attracts me in the gym are nice tight asses from female gender. You like what is happening to your motor skills doing muchle building repetitions?

I find it interesting that you cant comprehend something superficial like wanting your body to look better given that you are so concerned about a superficial thing like MPB that you joined a hairloss site. Reasons beyond superficial for bodybuilding are the sense of achievent in progressing with weights and the feel good factor that exersize brings, during and after. I also do sprints just cus I like how it feels and go through stages of training martial arts, so I am familiar with sports exercise as well. I dont happen to go to the gym because I've developed my own workout doing things such as freestanding handstand press ups because I get more of a sense of achievement doing things that 99% of people cant do.

one study showed concentrate was better than isolate as far as hair loss was concerned, tho it hasnt been reproduced by anyone else

This has been awesome guys... Thanks for your help. I spent time looking at the research on the Ergo site. It was quite fascinating. They had a lot on Leucine as well, so that is a supplement I will be ordering. I was not sure about the L-Arginine though and actually threw my last bottle out a while back. I thought there was some bad stuff on it?

With the Glutamine, Leucine, Creatine and Beta Alanine, what kind of doses should be taken? With Glutamine I am taking about 1.5 grams a day.

With the expectations of gains, what do you guys feel reasonable? My arms are the slowest and I would like another inch there to balance things out.

Thanks!

There are several reasons I think bodybuilding is beneficial, which I'll get to momentarily. But first we have to decide what we consider bodybuilding. There are degrees of bodybuilding. If you define it in terms of the sport and the industry of bodybuilding, then you are probably imagining the giant, immobile bodybuilders who injected tons of pro-hormones and HGH. I by no means find this to be healthy. But if you really break the term bodybuilding down into its component parts, then anything you are doing to become more anabolic and increase muscle tissue can be considered bodybuilding. And in this sense it can most definitely be beneficial for athletics. Before coming to college I played football for years and most definitely benefited from increasing muscle mass and strength. I continue to play in IM leagues and still see benefits from regular training. My being a bodybuilder extends only to the fact that I want to build a "healthy" amount of muscle for the metabolic AND the cosmetic positives. In this regard, anybody trying to do the same is a bodybuilder. But there is an end in mind, and that is my genetic potential. I don't intend to try to take my muscle building beyond that point that is natural and hinders my functionality. I agree with you that getting to a certain size is no longer healthy and stops you from being able to enjoy sports. But as far as the other benefits:

1) Cosmetic. A healthy amount of muscle looks good. No doubt about it. There is a difference between the low body fat, trimmed physiques of strictly athletes and the more deliberate look of a musculature had from training. I think its a personal preference. I personally like the look of the latter, say a Frank Zane minus 20 pounds.

2) Metabolism. Muscle is the most metabolically demanding tissue. Having more of its requires the body to burn more calories to maintain it. In the end, I can eat more and give myself more leeway in my diet in terms of junk food because of muscle.

3) Confidence. I believe a male's confidence has everything to do with having a set of standards and meeting them. This can be as big as getting to a certain point in your career, or just keeping your room clean. But simply, its just a matter of having a standard and living up to it. The gym is a big part of this. Forming a goal in your head, or a standard of what you want to achieve, and going into the gym and making this happen in physical reality is a huge reference point for your confidence. You had the thought to do something and you made it happen. Its learning a thinking pattern and a reference loop for all other areas of your life. Not to mention the hormonal aspects of resistance training, more testosterone.

4) Longevity. There are numerous health benefits to resistance training. Bone building, regulating sugar metabolism, cardiovascular benefits. I think the physiological adaptation to resistance training plays a huge part of increasing how long we live. Again, this all depends on how organic you keep your training, and keeping the amount of muscle you try to put on realistic.

5) Athletics. Certain sports lend themselves to stronger athletes, football being a good example. Increasing muscle fiber goes hand in hand with increasing strength. Sure, there is a huge aspect of power that is based on the nervous system, but without building muscle tissue, that's going to be like putting high octane gasoline in a weedwacker.

I also find it interesting that my hairline is beside my teeth - it's the past with big connection to the MPB, pretty onlything what made me dissatisfied about my body. I feel rewarded when i do sports all the time, it's a reason i do it as often as possible. For example today i am pretty sattisfied with myself cause i calibrate my free throws to 15 out of 15 and 19 out of 20 after recovery training i had today engage my muscles, which were ruined from the yesterdays tennis match - yes i know it's not very healthy sport and will do it anyway...

I like headstands as well. I do it with stability exercises which might be the most important training of them all, cause balance is the most important thing in every sport i do. Dont want to show off but i am also 1 in 100 with my skills in sport...

Maybe there are different standards of outlook (muscles, low fat, skills) we are talking about, but i if i feel good in my body it does really matter?

I can comprehand what you are saying it's just not my priority. I was at the gym during my rehabilitation of injury - not chronic one, quite often, but lack of movement was something what made me bored. Pain is ok - you get it paid back sooner and later, but still dont like counting when i want to achieve it. Another thing i dont like in fitness is also working with devices. I think by ignoring ballance part of exercises you do harm to your motor skills.

Tnx for your answer. I didnt mean to tell you you are doing something wrong in your life, just wanted a discussion about it...


@Anthonyspencer54 - you summed it all up.

I'll throw in my two cents on bodybuilding. Less supplements and fake nutrition and more of the real stuff whenever possible. Grass fed beef bone broth for joint pain/health is huge here....7 days after starting eating broth my shoulder and lower back pain have alleviated from a 8 pain to about a 2. I've been out of the gym for around 4-5 months due to the shoulder pain btw saw a chiro saw a wellness doc to no avail.


I'm not sure how to get back into the gym while trying to follow GAPS diet.... looks like I've got even more planning and strategery to do. Any ideas?

Also 3 times a week at 45 mins of intense compound lifting is my sweet spot. If I go back to 5 days split its too much on my body and I feel like its harder to rec-coup effectively and you must be even more strict on diet that's why I recommend a 3 day split of compound movements + a few smaller muscle groups.

You should take about 1/4 teaspoon of beta alanine powder before training and mixed in your workout drink. I've just realised it needs to be cycled because the effect wears off, but I havent worked out the specifics yet. The creatine should be taken before training and the dose will be on the bottle.

Beebrox wrote:I know many of you are bodybuilders and i am sportsman as well, but see no point in bodybuilding. It's condidered healthy due it's mechanism of workout or you just go to boost your EGO based on your progress in the gym? Sorry if you find it provocative, but as a person who plays at least 4 sports cant relate to bodybuilding - i dont say i shouldn't. Onlything what attracts me in the gym are nice tight asses from female gender. You like what is happening to your motor skills doing muchle building repetitions?

Actually, I think you did mean to tell anyone who does this they are doing something wrong with their life since you derisively said men do it to boost their "EGO". Don't back peddle. Own it if you believe that. Put your name on it.

I turned to resistance training to help fix what was broken in my body. It's helped me beat back obesity, metabolic syndrome, certain type II diabetes among many other health conditions. Putting on pounds of lean muscle mass has only helped my health and made me look far younger than my contemporaries.

And lifting weights doesn't stop me from playing any sports. I'm training for a triathlon and have completed 3 mini-triathlons in the past year.

The IH regimen, besides what it does for hair, actually rewards anyone who strength trains. You release more HGH naturally, your body recovers quicker, there's less inflammation in the joints. If anything, the regimen that this forum was built on has a very synergistic effect on people who strength train.

Maybe you don't like the look of it. Maybe it seems silly to you for people to go into a gym and train hard. I happen to enjoy it very much.

re beebrox haters gone hate

like posting on forums to learn how to prevent baldness has nothing to do with your EGO

lol

the ego is a fact of life. i embrace it. thats the tantric way. everyone indulges their ego in their own way. no way is better than any other.

hadrion wrote:
Actually, I think you did mean to tell anyone who does this they are doing something wrong with their life since you derisively said men do it to boost their "EGO". Don't back peddle. Own it if you believe that. Put your name on it.

I turned to resistance training to help fix what was broken in my body. It's helped me beat back obesity, metabolic syndrome, certain type II diabetes among many other health conditions. Putting on pounds of lean muscle mass has only helped my health and made me look far younger than my contemporaries.

And lifting weights doesn't stop me from playing any sports. I'm training for a triathlon and have completed 3 mini-triathlons in the past year.

The IH regimen, besides what it does for hair, actually rewards anyone who strength trains. You release more HGH naturally, your body recovers quicker, there's less inflammation in the joints. If anything, the regimen that this forum was built on has a very synergistic effect on people who strength train.

Maybe you don't like the look of it. Maybe it seems silly to you for people to go into a gym and train hard. I happen to enjoy it very much.

One misinterpreted word and there is fire on the roof.

I try to give some bust to my EGO all the time. If it is on the left hemisphere is mostly dopamine type of behaviour, if it's on the right is mostly noradrenaline. Both are active state of my being. I can put my name under it and still think the same, cause didnt want to insult anybody. If you thought about ego differently, sorry - again;). I honestly think gym can be healthyer in comparison with some sports i do, but since strenght is a bad motivator for me, my oppinion stays the same. I dont like to use machinery in the gym cause negatively effect feeling i need to master the ball for example...I still enjoyed the discussion.

Every movement is healthy in one way as our mucles work as piezzos - they generate negative charge - flow of electrons which is imo the main reason everybody should workout. HGH is there also with other types of exercises. Some time ago i read article abouth stretching as a trigger for HGH - didn't go further.

Talking about HGH. Do you notice you want to stretch all the time - espetially in the morning after workout? I wonder if HGH has some to do with it. Cause i remmember i did it all the time when i was younger and now i need workout to make this desire...

So are powdered forms of glutamine, leucine, beta alanine and NAC more beneficial than capsules?

Thanks,

No but they are cheaper

hellwig wrote:No but they are cheaper

This.

Thanks again...

I ended up taking creatine mixed with a fruit juice (to assist with fast uptake) and noticed an energy boost in 2-3 minutes. Not sure if mind over matter here, but it worked. I can now see why people recommend creatine before the workout. From now on, I will take creatine pre-workout and take the glutamine, beta-alanine, leuicine and NAC immediate post workout.

I totally agree that the IH regimine changes the body's functions noticeably in regards to strength and bodybuilding. I am amazed at the leaning out and muscle gain as well as the strength increases. I also attribute my diet changed considerably since coming across CS's research. I eat clean and take the supplements, what a change!

One other thing I wondered with some confusion (and once again there is too much hype in the industry to find the truth), is boosting testosterone. Being in my mid 30's, someone said I need to look at doing that now? Is this true? If so, how do you do it without messing up the body's designed mechanisms and natural functions?

I agree with the comment on Frank Zane's physique. He had a good approach to life long training (even if there is suspicions on certain "assistance" factors being used). I think Frank is still in great shape for the age he is now. Aparantley he has a fair amount of shoulder issues these days from the heavy weights in the early years. With Arnold, he seems to have (and please correct me if I am wrong) used the on and off technique with training. He recently admitted to not being happy with his current shape and it looks like he is now correcting things. Lou Ferigno is a champ and kept constantly in shape.

Thanks,

I think you'd get even more benefit from taking the amino acids peri-workout. Make one large drink containing the creatine and just sip on it during your workout and afterward. Of course, this doesn't eliminate the need for your recovery meals. I just think that getting the aminos during the workout is even better. But that's nit picky. In the end probably won't change too much.

I also heard that about Zane. I read an interview where he said that he'd used them before. He said he'd won with them and without them, so he preferred to do it without. Definitely one of the most aesthetic of all time, but hell that whole era was much more aesthetic than the freaks you see now.

As far as T goes, there really isn't any one thing that is gonna bump your levels by 300 points short of hormone replacement therapy. The best thing for boosting T is
- getting adequate vitamin D
- eating plenty of healthy saturated fats (coconut oil, grass-fed butter, quality beef)
- optimizing your cholesterol profile (policosanol, overall anti-inflammatory diet, antioxidants, good omega 6 to omega 3 ratio, and using bile stimulants in combination with things like bentonite clay and activated charcoal, cleaning the liver)
- plenty of sleep
- zinc (at least 30 mg daily, I like ZMA)
- mucuna pruriens (boost dopamine, which raises T)
- MOST IMPORTANT: heavy compound exercise with heavy enough weight to fatigue you in under ten reps
- lower cortisol (antagonist of T): phosphatidyl serine and adaptogens (rhodiola, ashwaghanda, holy basil)

And call me crazy, but I am a firm believer of a mental component to hormone regulation. I believe testosterone has a lot to do with your own self-perception, or more specifically of your self-perception of your own social status. Dominant male primates tend to have higher testosterone. Now many will argue that this is because they produce higher testosterone, but (and I know I'll take shit for this) I truly believe that the increase in social dominance and self-perception of status will contribute to the increase in T. My evidence: a study by Bernstein et al in 04 showed that greater access to females, postive alterations in social rank, and "successful" agonistic encounters all increased circulating testosterone. So basically, try to succeed socially the best you can and no matter what always walk around convinced you are the alpha male, but for christ sake don't go BRO on us.