Join Hoppi in his quest to find the best topical astringent!!

Because I think they work for MPB damnit!!

Witch hazel I've heard a success story, apple cider vinegar gets lots of success stories, accutane got success, very cold water, salicylic acid, coenzyme A, etc.

I truly think astringents are very, very useful at controlling MPB at least topically.

Why? Because I think they dry up the sebum onwhich the fungal infection (that causes the dandruff very commonly associated with MPB) feeds. He who controls the sebum controls the fungus' food supply and he who controls the food supply controls the MPB!

Kinda like this!






So yes erm, I think this is a great help and to me explains why some antifungals seem to work better than others at stopping MPB - because they also often have other properties such as antiandrogenic or astringent which help them along.

To me, witch hazel is simply too expensive - you can't buy it as an essential oil so you need to buy just witch hazel fluid which gets very expensive compared to essential oils. I think it does work well though, as it worked the best out of everything I tried for spots I had when I was in my teens. Very cold water is unpleasant and apple cider vinegar really smells...

So, I wanted some help finding the most useful topical astringent. Something powerful, affordable, and pleasant to apply.

Will you help me in this great mission?

Hoppi!


EDIT -- Oh, here is a starting point but I don't know which are better than others, although I know alum works pretty well as I used to use it as deodorant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astringent

why do you think astringents specifically are good for MPB?

better would be to find antihistamines, since antihistamines interfere with the activity of PGD2. tyme oil is iirc an antihistamine, so you can't go wrong there.

I think ACV is used for its activity against PGD2 as well as for it's ability to clean off excess sebum.

Vinegar is a PGD2 receptor antagonist. Not sure it can penetrate enough into the scalp for effect though.

If you really want astringents lemons are astringent.

LawOfThelema wrote:why do you think astringents specifically are good for MPB?

better would be to find antihistamines, since antihistamines interfere with the activity of PGD2. tyme oil is iirc an antihistamine, so you can't go wrong there.

I think ACV is used for its activity against PGD2 as well as for it's ability to clean off excess sebum.

Vinegar is a PGD2 receptor antagonist. Not sure it can penetrate enough into the scalp for effect though.

If you really want astringents lemons are astringent.

Is this to do with inflammation? But I thought the inflammation was only there because of the fungus which is only there because of the sebum? o.O

Scalp in aga is overly sensitive to inflammation provoking factors. I don't think it necessarily solely due to the Presence of a pathogen tho I do know that pathogens will exasperate it. Dandruff etc. mpbresearch.com notes proprianobacterium were found present in higher concentrations in aga scalps than non tho I couldn't find the source for the claim

LawOfThelema wrote:Scalp in aga is overly sensitive to inflammation provoking factors. I don't think it necessarily solely due to the Presence of a pathogen tho I do know that pathogens will exasperate it. Dandruff etc. mpbresearch.com notes proprianobacterium were found present in higher concentrations in aga scalps than non tho I couldn't find the source for the claim

oh wow.. you really think it's not just the pathogens? I was sure it was only those causing the inflammation

I have seen a few success stories with witch hazel and witch hazel + olive oil, which is interesting.

what about cayenne and cinnamon stuff that Ive heard people add to acv to add more circulation?

Inline with the whole sebum/fungus control thing... What about using a retin-a based liquid or formula every other night? I have read countless studies showing it is beneficial and controls sebum apporpriately. It also regenerates skin. You just have to make sure not to overdo it. I am actually currently looking for a good source of the liquid version of it. Dr. Lee used to carry it, but he's out of business now.

Am thinking of combining it with Rejueveplex applications.

At the inhuman experiment blog he grew hairs on his temple with Retin-A

oh wow.. you really think it's not just the pathogens? I was sure it was only those causing the inflammation Shocked

A lot of the speculation that takes place here is along those lines but I havent seen any science regarding MPB which suggest too much in this direction

LawOfThelema wrote:At the inhuman experiment blog he grew hairs on his temple with Retin-A

Who did? link?

google inhuman experiment retin-a emu oil conclusion

i aint got the link on hand

LawOfThelema wrote:google inhuman experiment retin-a emu oil conclusion

i aint got the link on hand

Ah ok, yes I have seen this link before. It actually was one of the ones that originally made me curious about it. I really do think that retinoids (when used properly) can have a beneficial effect on hair loss in 2 ways.

1. Control sebum (bacteria, fungus, dht buildup and other things that feed off of it)
2. Penetration - they help active ingredients penetrate through the scalp skin at a much higher level

In addition there is some evidence that retinoids help regenerate skin and even help with collagen prodcution.

CS - Can you give your detailed opinion on this please.

Thanks!

unfortunate wrote:

LawOfThelema wrote:google inhuman experiment retin-a emu oil conclusion

i aint got the link on hand

Ah ok, yes I have seen this link before. It actually was one of the ones that originally made me curious about it. I really do think that retinoids (when used properly) can have a beneficial effect on hair loss in 2 ways.

1. Control sebum (bacteria, fungus, dht buildup and other things that feed off of it)
2. Penetration - they help active ingredients penetrate through the scalp skin at a much higher level

In addition there is some evidence that retinoids help regenerate skin and even help with collagen prodcution.

Yeah it definitely seems good. It's one of the more "proven" treatments floating around. People all the time either using it stand a lone or in combination with their minoxodil or other topicals. For me the main thing would be the greasy base. I don't like wearing my hair really short, so I'd probably only do retin-A at night, cuz it's invariably gonna get in my hair when I apply it to the scalp.

Yeah I head Retin A can have positive effects too. It's fairly pricey though relatively speaking and can be tricky to get hold of. I would imagine that to control sebum witch hazel mixed in olive oil or something would be cheaper. I guess it depends what you're aiming to do

hoppipolla wrote:Yeah I head Retin A can have positive effects too. It's fairly pricey though relatively speaking and can be tricky to get hold of. I would imagine that to control sebum witch hazel mixed in olive oil or something would be cheaper. I guess it depends what you're aiming to do

how about tea tree oil?

im also looking for some more potent antifungals,antimicrobials, antibacterials to apply to the scalp.