Premature hairloss

Ok I’m only 20 and after 3 years of constant balding MPB style im at a diffuse NW3!!! Now I’ve gotten to the point where enough is enough and I’m ready to tackle this motherfucker head on!
First let me just say after reading quite a bit on the regrowth forum it’s a breath of fresh air to not have that lonely, lonely pathetic devils advocate Jacob (or “piece of shit” as immortal would say) on this forum bitching and moaning all the time just because the fucker has some deep seeded childhood traumas.

Alright all I can tell you is that I have been big on carbs and meat all my life, but having said that my diet has been pretty good otherwise. I’m fairly fit and have been able to build muscle fairly easily. I have some mild acne on the top of my back around my shoulder area’s. I’ve had a good metabolism, aswell as having a well above average sex drive. Now I am hairy as fuck for my age, thick black body hair that’s starting to spread to my back and is already on my shoulders! Although I’ve seen a few hairy men with perfect head hair I have a feeling body hair has some correlation to MPB.

From what I understand DHT is a main factor in body hair, and males younger then 26 years old with advanced or moderate hairloss have higher levels of 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone for whatever reason I don’t know! Apparently DHT becomes less of a factor in MPB the older one gets? I’ve also heard that SHBG is low in premature balding men (which would explain my high sex drive).
Some quotes from immortal hair “DHT rises when there's less testosterone and more estrogen. Or to put it another way, DHT is "symptomatic" of high estrogen.”…“if you have excess estrogen, it's usually indicative of extra DHT”. Ok if I have a lot of body hair does this mean I have higher levels of5alpha-dihydrotestosterone? I’ve always thought I’ve had high testosterone and low estrogen since I look fairly masculine and have had no trouble gaining muscle, so im not sure what to make of what you said unless it doesn’t apply to me somehow because of my age. And as far as my back acne goes I found another IH quote “Acne is caused by high IGF-1, low IGFBP-3, just like hair loss. Refined grains, starches, sugars, and processed dairy. They increase IGF-1 and lower IGFBP-3.” So is it safe to assume this is my case since I have some acne on my back?


What I’ve done so far for the past three months are immortal’s top 6(except only 4 cod liver oil capsules plus 4 fish oil capsules) plus grapeseed extract, pomegranate extract and magnesium orotate. Changed my diet to fairly damn healthy, added things like kelp/brazil nuts/wheat grass/spirulina and just a lot more veges and fruit with less carbs and meat. Im using revita as a topical, but I’m thinking of adding the lithium/dmso mix even though the Revita has been great it just hasn‘t stopped the hair loss after 3 months.
All this has cleared up my acne a fair bit though its still hasn’t managed to completely disappear and its slowed down my hairloss ‘a little bit’, but its still fucking falling out!!!

I’m sure every one would love to know this, but why the fuck do healthy people lose their hair??? What do us balding types have or don’t have that the non balding types have or don’t have??? And is there anything I can do internally to get my body hair, hair loss and back acne to settle the fuck down? Coz I really want to treat the cause of whatever this problem is and it better not be some fucking genetic DNA predestined gene that will continue to fuck everyone over while we wait for science to hurry its ass up to correct the problem.

Well anyway if immortal or anyone can help me out much is appreciated.

Silverlin - When it comes to DHT and Estrogen, the message is hard to convey, since it's an age related factor.

High androgens are the problem in younger men, and this is comparable to females with PCOS, or polycystic ovarian syndrome. In each case, higher androgens are present and diet definitely plays a role, but in some ways not very obvious.

Anything that raises Insulin Growth factor-1, increases androgen production, especially pasteurized milk, alcohol, refined cereal grains, starches and sugars.

A study revealed that on two islands where the native diet did not consume any refined carbohydrate and/or "civilized" foods, none of the islanders between the teenage years and their mid 20's had any acne.

The other way to increase DHT is to consume what is hard to avoid, polyunsaturated vegetable oils. These strongly increase 5-alpha reductase. Try to avoid Canola oil as if it were poison, avoid cottonseed oil, corn oil, vegetable oil in general.

Instead, cook with olive oil, coconut oil or even red palm oil. The latter two decrease 5-alpha reductase.

Basically, insulin resistance which begins encroaching in our metabolisms at ever earlier ages these days increases sensitivity to oxidative stress-thank free radicals.

The need for antioxidants is paramount, as oxidative stress further exacerbates insulin resistance, which increases DHT production.

Early balding is indicative of future cardiovascular problems. The good news is this is entirely preventable. Some of us may have certain genetic predispositions towards clotting or inflammation tendencies. Additionally, many of us have a greater likelihood of having higher triglyceride levels. Tocotrienols, which have showed positive effects on hair, are important in the cardiovascular arena too.

A diet laden with refined foods, increases acidity, which in the most simple terms means poor oxygenation. Tissue hypoxia or low tissue oxygen--think diminished blood flow.

Essential fatty acids, as in Omega-3 EPA/DHA will eventually overcome prostaglandin imbalances. Then the levels of 5-alpha reductase will be lowered. Additionally, inflammation as a whole will be lowered.

With insulin resistance also comes a heightened sensitivity to stress, which can lead to excess cortisol. High cortisol is like taking a blow torch to your hair. Our own hair follicles have their own independent, HPTA. This was first elucidated in 2006. Other than managing cortisol levels with things like Ashwaganda (Sensoril) and Phosphatidyl Serine, altering the cannabinoid pathway is something to keep a close eye on, as this could act as way to eliminate this type of hair loss.

With respect to cortisol, there is a tendency in premature balding to have borderline hyperthyroidism which spurns regulation of the enzyme 11Beta-HSD (11-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase).

High androgens could be an indication of too much 11-Beta-HSD.

Certain inhibitors such as glycyrrhetinic acid (licorice root), and even the Patrick Arnold Product 11-OXO could potentially decrease these androgens. Yes, there is a strong correlation between too much cortisol and 5-alpha reductase.

If there is a borderline hyperthyroid, iodine can help level this out. It also levels out hypothyroid too.

I’ll definitely start taking ashwaganda and treat polyunsaturated vegetable oils like poison.
Thanks heaps for the info IH you’re a legend. I just have a few more questions.

So is diet the biggest factor or only factor in raising Insulin Growth factor-1 which then increases androgen production/5-alpha reductase? Also with the Tocotrienols is cranberry seed oil a viable source for that? I know I can blame civilized foods for my acne, but is it safe to say I can blame it for my relative excessive body hair and hair loss as well(even though I eat fairly well and lately pretty damn well)?

So why is it that someone can eat like garbage and still have no signs of hair loss?

Silverlin - With us MBP'ers, there seems to be a possible defect in the manufacture or synthesis of phosphatidic acid.

What is known is that there are various factors which interfere with phosphatidic acid, namely a Lysine deficiency, an Omega-3 deficiency, and a Manganese deficiency.

Also, non-balding men have a natural protection against increased expression of TGF-beta, which is initially signaled by DHT to destroy hair (it does have other positive functions). This "shield" against this protein has something to do with bioactive lipids or fats.

So that in part explains why they can do anything they want and their hair will stay like wool--but the rest of their body will pay in some fashion.

Cranberry seed oil is good source of alpha linolenic acid (ALA).

The problem there, is that ALA still has to be converted into EPA/DHA.

In men, that's about a 1% conversion rate. Moreover, it depletes our reserves of delta-6-desaturase enzyme.

The way to replenish this is to take plenty of zinc, magnesium and b6, that will help. Still it is preferable to
consume sources of both EPA & DHA.

If you're vegan, then there two other options. GLA will work or look for a vegan source DHA. I haven't found a vegan source of EPA yet.

CausticSymmetry wrote:I haven't found a vegan source of EPA yet.

Could this be of use? http://www.water4.net/

CausticSymmetry wrote:Silverlin - When it comes to DHT and Estrogen, the message is hard to convey, since it's an age related factor.

High androgens are the problem in younger men, and this is comparable to females with PCOS, or polycystic ovarian syndrome. In each case, higher androgens are present and diet definitely plays a role, but in some ways not very obvious.

Anything that raises Insulin Growth factor-1, increases androgen production, especially pasteurized milk, alcohol, refined cereal grains, starches and sugars.

A study revealed that on two islands where the native diet did not consume any refined carbohydrate and/or "civilized" foods, none of the islanders between the teenage years and their mid 20's had any acne.

The other way to increase DHT is to consume what is hard to avoid, polyunsaturated vegetable oils. These strongly increase 5-alpha reductase. Try to avoid Canola oil as if it were poison, avoid cottonseed oil, corn oil, vegetable oil in general.

Instead, cook with olive oil, coconut oil or even red palm oil. The latter two decrease 5-alpha reductase.

Basically, insulin resistance which begins encroaching in our metabolisms at ever earlier ages these days increases sensitivity to oxidative stress-thank free radicals.

The need for antioxidants is paramount, as oxidative stress further exacerbates insulin resistance, which increases DHT production.

Early balding is indicative of future cardiovascular problems. The good news is this is entirely preventable. Some of us may have certain genetic predispositions towards clotting or inflammation tendencies. Additionally, many of us have a greater likelihood of having higher triglyceride levels. Tocotrienols, which have showed positive effects on hair, are important in the cardiovascular arena too.

A diet laden with refined foods, increases acidity, which in the most simple terms means poor oxygenation. Tissue hypoxia or low tissue oxygen--think diminished blood flow.

Essential fatty acids, as in Omega-3 EPA/DHA will eventually overcome prostaglandin imbalances. Then the levels of 5-alpha reductase will be lowered. Additionally, inflammation as a whole will be lowered.

With insulin resistance also comes a heightened sensitivity to stress, which can lead to excess cortisol. High cortisol is like taking a blow torch to your hair. Our own hair follicles have their own independent, HPTA. This was first elucidated in 2006. Other than managing cortisol levels with things like Ashwaganda (Sensoril) and Phosphatidyl Serine, altering the cannabinoid pathway is something to keep a close eye on, as this could act as way to eliminate this type of hair loss.

This is fantastic, though I disagree on equating starches with alcohol and pasteurized milk. In my view, moderate consumption of whole, unrefined starches (such as sourdough bread or tubers) will not pose a risk to our hair.

They keyword of course being moderation. I'd say if you're going to eat a Baked Potato, make sure you're consuming the skin, and eat it raw if possible. Also, just half of the potato--put the other one away for safe-keeping. If you must cook it, do so in the stove, and do not boil or mike it.

If you're a diffuse thinner, you may want to consider laser helmets as well. I'm a few years older than you and it's quite amazing what it's done so far for my diffuse thinning. I can't wait till the 3-month mark (I'm a bit under 2 months now on treatments).

As for your diet--cut our breads and grains, unless you're buying yeast-free Sourdough or from some place like http://www.pacificbakery.com--all of their bread is game. This spikes your insulin growth factor, as does ANY dairy product (minus raw milk). Avoid dairly, though some organic yogurt is fine.

Misirlou - That's perfect

CausticSymmetry wrote:Misirlou - That's perfect

...anything else you're looking for, sir?

Thanks again IH.

You mention that “non-balding men have a natural protection against increased expression of TGF-beta” Is there anyway balding men can replicate this “natural protection” that non balding men have against TGF-beta??

I hope I’ve understood this correctly. Insulin resistance comes about by the western “civilized” diet and also a prone genetic sensitivity to eating shit food. Is this correct?

Premature balding is closely related to PCOS, so is there an actual diagnosable term for men with a male version of PCOS?

Even though I’m eating a lot more healthier these last couple of months, its almost impossible to avoid chocolate, alcohol and not even god knows what fucking processed regurgitated garbage is in take away food.

I know all the supplements in your regimen are good for general health anyway, but is there any specific supplements to take when eating junk food? Are there specific things in your regimen that are more important to take for someone with premature hair loss?


Nidhogge I didn’t realise the only bread tolerable for hair loss was yeast free sourdough, that fucking sucks. The only dairy I consume is raw goats milk and organic yogurt a couple of times a week, so thank fuck I‘m not killing my hair with that.

Silverlin - One thing I should say right off the bat is, personally I am no where near perfect on avoiding a lot of these foods.

I eat out constantly, so my main routine is to take a load of the supplements before I eat. This is the protection against the effects of the food.

Of course, I still take the supplements whether I eat garbage or not, but I will reach for more of some things to help buffer the effects on some foods.

I think we all have our weak points. I'm really good at avoiding cereal, and I never drink milk unless it's raw, grass fed. I often avoid a lot of the potatoes served at eateries, but I'll indulge a little on garlic mashed potatoes, and rice seems to be okay in moderation.

My huge weakness for pizza and soda here and there requires plenty of help from the supplement arsenal.

I make sure to eat a protein food first, before eating any pasta, or other foods that will convert to glucose. That helps slow the conversion down.

Supplement wise, the most important "weapons" against dietary indulgences are Lipoic acid (if you're not hypoglycemic, go for Bio-enhanced R-Lipoic acid) and Acetyl L-Carnitine. These two will help a lot. Taurine is great for alcohol or high fructose corn syrup, which is a silent killer of the liver.

Since it's really hard to eat quality meat, and most of it will be grain-fed at a restaurant, Krill oil and/or cod liver oil will help balance out the Omega-6, so there's less inflammation, etc.

A B-Complex is important to take if you eat cooked meat, since the reduces the homocysteine risk. Also Choline from eggs or lecithin is another way to protect against homocysteine.

Sourdough bread is safe if there's no yeast to make it.

Chocolate is safe even without supplements if you consume a bar that contains 70% polyphenols. Since some studies came out, the supermarkets and drug stores have been flooded with numerous options in this area. High polyphenol chocolate lowers blood sugar and it's very high ORAC too.

Personally I love milk chocolate, my other weakness. I don't eat as much as I used too, but the supplements I mentioned before will let you eat the kind with less polyphenols.

MPB have different degrees of hormones, and when compared to non-balding men, they do have shielding because in an experiment, they were subjected to DHT and it was found it took an enormous amount of DHT to affect them negatively. So it comes down to sensitivity. Based on the research available, I believe it has to do with phospholipid metabolism, which result in the sensitivity factor. Aside from that, diet will help reduce dht that comes into contact.

Theoretically, and I haven't tested this except for myself is a very high dose of lecithin, which would provide a source of Phosphatidic Acid. Phosphatidic Acid has been shown to nullify the effects of TGF-beta. Another source of Phosphatidic Acid is high dose Phosphatidyl Serine. A bonus if you take either is reduction of cortisol, a nice source of choline and other benefits which would take longer to describe. I just don't have any proof on the hair part, but if anyone wants to try it, go for it!

Thanks guys for the dietary run through!
Just one more question concerning nuts (Almonds, Pistaccios, peanuts, walnuts etc) What is the verdict on them in general ralating to MPB? I know peanuts is a no, but wondering about all the others that ppl would snack on.

For some including me during the begining of my hairloss battle you might have to reduce nuts. Most people can esily finish 100g nuts in one sitting and the packs are often more than this (150g)

The problem is that nuts range in between 50-80g of Omega 6 per 100g this is just way to much Omega 6 for a person experiencing hairloss. Remember the omega 3:6 ratio is important we know from the standard american diet the average person ratio is from 1:20 and upto 1:50 i've done the calculations before and eating nuts everyday in the region of 100g is going too put you in the vicinity of somewhere around 1:10.

An excellent under rated snack food is coconut flesh we know the oil is a superfood but coconut flesh is one of the few foods in nature that one can not get to much of you're eating a food thats going to wonders for you're mycology plus you are not going to upset the 3:6 balance.

I asked my question about the types of oils to use while cooking in another thread in the old forum but i saw it here again

I've been reading about different types of coconut oil to use while cooking and it looks like the health people are pushing virgin coconut oil that has been "wet processed" or "expeller/cold pressed" (similar to Extra Virgin rating for olive oil) but there isn't a whole lot of information describing the fatty acid composition differences between the two oils. The refined coconut oils come from dried coconuts that have matured called "kopra." According to one site, the mature coconuts have a greater number long chain fatty acids (linoleic C18 in particularc) than the virgin coconuts and the virgin coconuts have a higher amount of the medium chain fatty acids (lauric C12). Although the difference between the virgin and mature coconut oils composition of these two different fatty acids is only 5% or so, people seem to be making a big deal. The main difference is that the refined coconut oils have gone through a heating process to extract the oil and kill micro-organisms that have grown on them during transport, and supposedly this heating process hydrogenates the oil. I haven't found any real research people have done comparing the two.

It seems like hydrogenation would take place in either case whether it is heated during processing or when you cook it, if it occurs at temperatures below the smoke point. But only the unsaturated oils in the coconut oil could become hydrogenated / trans (i think?). Also, without a catalyst, I would think that the hydrogenation temperature would be very high for hydrogen in the air or water from food to convert the unsaturated fats into trans-cis or trans fats...any thoughts?

The only other thing is that my mom grew up on a farm in India and her grandmother never let anyone make coconut oil out of the mature coconuts because she said it was "bad." Sort of old an wives tale. Poorer people supposedly cooked with Palm oil instead of coconut. The only other oil people used was sesame seed oil but they generally did not heat it. If they did it was for a very short time under high heat.

Someone said to avoid dairy products, why? What's wrong with cheese for example, there's almost no carbs in it so it won't raise blood sugar.

Caustic, you recommended a supplement "IF" we cook our meat. Do you recommend eating meat raw? Isn't that dangerous?

Espio--

It's ok to eat raw as long as it is grass-fed. For example, I'll go get grass-fed beef at the public market, heat my foreman grill to high, then throw it on for a minute. This just browns the outsides yet keeps the insides pretty red. Tastes great too. Regular meat? No, cook it. Or, better yet, avoid it altogether.

Now, as for cheese that is made of pasteurized milk, it still has Beta Lactase in it. IH can add a lot more about Beta Lactase.

Hi all!...I'm new at this forum...could you please help me out!..

I'm 30. I've been using propecia for more than 2 years now with "good" results. Baically I stoped losing my hair and regrowing new hair slowly with time. The problem is that I WANT TO STOP TAKING THAT DRUG!...I tryed last week (after 2 long years taking propecia daily!). I stoped taking propecia and my hairs are now falling down in a way I didn't expect!. Like 30 hairs in my hand everytime I shower! Of course they say (propecia) this is supposed to happend, but I didn't know that that was that fast!...I'm eating more healthy (organic, raw when possible, salmon, nuts, take natural multivitamin and exercise, coconut oil, olive oil, a fruit a day in the morning, no alcohol, no sugars, etc). Is there a way that I can stop taking propecia without saying goodbye with all my new strong hair?...Or the only way is to wait for the silent sides effects of that drug!...
Thank you very much!....
Great info BTW...
LOLO
Texas

Laser helmeting is a great way to keep your hair and regrow/thicken current hair. Other than that, check out Pueraria Mirifca and 7HMR Lignans, along with a host of other supplements on IH's regime page. The regime is designed around not needing Propecia, but giving even better results over time, sans the sides.

Espio - For reasons I'm not sure about, (mycotoxins?) diary can affect insulin levels, but I think abstaining is hard. I break the "rules" all the time. The supplements allow you to have some of your "cake" and eat it too. So the idea is to reduce some of the problem foods. It gets easier to cut out some of them entirely after a while.

When eating cooked meat, if it is cooked beyond medium rare, then the B-vitamins are destroyed. Since homocysteine is a concern, make sure you're taking a good b-vitamins as part of a decent multi to compensate.

Other than that, if the meat is not-grass-fed, taking plenty of Omega-3 (part of the regimen anyway) will compensate for the high omega-6 of the grain-fed meat.

LOLO - I second nidhogge and welcome aboard!

I've never touched a "drop" of propecia/finasteride, much less minoxidil. Only drug companies think they are "needed."

The regimen found here: www.Immortalhair.org

Most people are highly deficient in Omega-3 and grossly overloaded with Omega-6, that fact alone lends DHT a problem.

CausticSymmetry wrote:MPB have different degrees of hormones, and when compared to non-balding men, they do have shielding because in an experiment, they were subjected to DHT and it was found it took an enormous amount of DHT to affect them negatively. So it comes down to sensitivity. Based on the research available, I believe it has to do with phospholipid metabolism, which result in the sensitivity factor. Aside from that, diet will help reduce dht that comes into contact.

Theoretically, and I haven't tested this except for myself is a very high dose of lecithin, which would provide a source of Phosphatidic Acid. Phosphatidic Acid has been shown to nullify the effects of TGF-beta. Another source of Phosphatidic Acid is high dose Phosphatidyl Serine.

Some more questions for you IH.

From what I understand you think ‘phospholipid metabolism’ is the biggest factor resulting in the reason why people have a sensitivity to “civilized” foods and DHT?

So you propose “theoretically” that a source of phosphatidic acid should nullify the effects of TGF-beta and create a shield against the expression of TGF-beta?

If so then what dosage of lecithin or Phosphatidyl Serine do you recommend? Also which one would you personally choose if you chose to take one yourself?

As I maybe naively understand, if this does work in providing a protective shield for the expression of TGF-beta, then shouldn’t it stop or reverse MPB???

Thanks a million IH

Hi Silverlin. It all starts with the mind. Whether you lose your hair, or regrow it, psychology is an important factor, especially as no doubt your underlying goal is to keep a good quality of life.

Before even hearing of DHT blockers, I used primarily stress managing strategies. So any foods or drinks that increased my stress, I avoided, and any foods that reduced it, I increased. The same with activities. So I always did stress reducing brisk walks (with an appropriate attitude of engagement, rather than fight or flight from stress). I balanced this afterwards with stress reducing warm-downs (basically just shake the stress out like athletes do). I ate a lot more fruit and veg daily, and drunk plenty of H2O. I didn't stop drinking alcohol, but reduced it to a very healthy sociable level (no more gorging and puking). I inverted mildly (forward bends, walk-up-the-wall handstands (great for your shoulders and upper pecs), and very mild shoulder stands (no cricking the neck) for no more than 5 minutes a day. And I used nizoral, but I didn't know at the time it would have a good effect on the hair, I just used it to manage seb dermatitis. And I used rosemary tea as a scalp wash after using nizoral (rosemary is an old folk remedy that I pretty much believe in).

Anyway, life got better in general. After a few months I went from diffuse to a stronger "Harrison Ford" (in his late 40s) level.

If anything in particular made me obsessed with my hair, I would stop doing it, and if anything got me worried, I would deal with it. Always health first.

Now I'm taking finasteride and Saw Palmetto (primarily to deal with genetically likely prostate trouble) and I personally found the results to be startlingly good. I feel a little calmer and more carefree (perhaps some experience this as depression), and my scalp feels very relaxed and full. I see little hairs coming up in places that have been barren for over 5 years. But again, if I find anything stressful or unhealthy about those substances, I'll stop or make an adjustment. I'm as horny as ever, though I do feel that Saw Palmetto helps this pleasant male condition.

The body doesn't really seem to prioritize hair. There are plenty of other things more important to maintain. But I would say that during my hairfall times, I did experience scalp tension and a sort of thin feeling that my scalp was being attacked chemically (by DHT I assume).

When I got diffuse in my 20s one thing I found psychologically helpful was to get a really close buzz cut. I also started dressing really sharp. That really got me laid good and proper!

So just as a problem solving effort, I would think about your hair as something that is optional (to attempt to maintain). And the best approach is to focus on reasonable healthy living and good psychology, enhancing a sense of wellbeing (avoid heavy adrenal living), and just be resilient no matter what the result. If you can maintain a confident balance and resilient attitude regardless of appearance, then I would say you are going to be unbeatable no matter what!

Cheers
Lux

Silverlin - The short answer is yes. Theoretically anyway, so how much to take?

If you use standard soy lecithin you would need a lot of it. I take four 1,200 mg caps with each meal.

If you go down the Phosphatidylserine route, then the dose would be quite high and probably too expensive.

Go with lecithin. Here's more info on this

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n3/full/5601911a.html

If anyone wants to try it, please let me know if you notice anything.